Thinking of giving up 😥

[Jose EB5AGV]

Hi all,

 

Well, yesterday, after the weekly rehearsal with the pop/rock band I play on since March 2022 (which is my very first, as I began playing keys in March 2018, starting from zero), I seriously thought on giving up. The reason is that my playing level is ages from theirs. All have decades of experience (even the singer, who is just 23, began to sing close than ten years ago)

 

So I try to do my best. But my best is in no way close to what could match the other band members playing level.

It was like a dream to be accepted on this band. It happened because they lost the sax player and one of the members thought on me, as he knew I played the piano and keyboards. I told him about my little experience and he said not to worry. Well, the day I arrived for the first rehearsal, I was very honest with all the people there. They appreciated that, I know. I tried to cover some sax parts... And it sucked greatly 😥

 

We continued playing for some weeks, with some comping on my side (chords, some arpeggios here and there, chords plus some light bass, small intros) and then they told me they were going to try a sax player, but that didn't mean I was out. So the player came and I stopped playing those parts (luckily!). All went more or less smoothly. We had our two first (for me) concerts on July 2022 and it was a nice experience I will never forget 🤩

 

Then our singer left and we spent until about November 2022 looking for the current one, who sings wonderfully.

We kept doing our weekly rehearsals and have another concert scheduled for 25th March this year.

 

But, even if I keep trying to improve, playing daily and attending piano classes, I seem to be unable to get better. The gap in playing is still too large 🙁

 

So I feel right now pretty bad. Of course, I will keep playing until next concert, won't let them down. But my future after that is a big unknown for me.

 

I know they would do better with another keys player (or even without keys, as I am the first keys player on the band since it began in 2012). On the other hand, I know that if I leave, that could be the end of my playing adventure... And that saddens me a lot 😥. I have put quite a lot of effort and expectations on this, and leaving this would hurt very deep.

 

Sorry for the rambling. I felt the need to share these feelings and where is a better place than here?

 

Thanks for reading up to the end 🫂

 

Jose

[ProfD]

Well @EB5AGV, the band knew what they were getting in terms of skillset as a result of your transparency.

 

Considering the band went 10 years without a KB player and their willingness to let you play tells me that keys aren't essential.

 

Basically, the band is allowing you to learn on the job and hang out. Don't be so hard on yourself. Enjoy the ride. 

 

That doesn't mean that you should stop striving to become a better musician. Continue learning and growing in that regard. 

 

Becoming a better musician and on the job training will be mutually beneficial to your skills and confidence and the band. 😎

[Stokely]

One thing I learned as a tennis player, starting age 7--you get better playing with and against better players.   But unlike tennis, music is (or shouldn't be) a competition.   I wouldn't think of it as a "gap"--after all, they might be improving too!  Catching up is not the goal.  Playing better music is the goal and takes everyone working together.  As a keys player, that can sometimes just mean being the "glue".  I like being a glue guy.  I take very few solos and I'd be happy with none.  I look for ways to fill up the sound, find interesting tones and inversions, basically finding enjoyment in the little subtleties.

One thing I've learned being in bands--they come and go, I wouldn't put all hopes and dreams on one particular one.  I guess if that's the only one in your area or something, sure.
 

One thing I've learned as a beginning guitar player, starting as an older beginner--you don't see progress from day to day.  But looking back over the course of months, you realize that you are doing things with ease that you could maybe only do with great difficulty before.   Kind of like watching a plant grow   

Confidence in playing and/or singing takes time and there's no substitute for doing it.   I've found that one of my greatest assets to bands is not some dizzying array of chops, but simply being there and not being a problem--I sometimes feel like a marriage counselor in bands!  Musicians are flaky and immature as a group and age does nothing unfortunately to remedy this.

As far as skills, do what you *can* do but stretch out when it feels right.   If you are in a band that expects Keith Emerson, well between the the two of us we might both be in trouble.  You'll get better it's just a gradual thing.

[MAJUSCULE]

We all go through this. Remember why you started playing. If you need to take a break, that's fine, but music will always be there to welcome you back with open arms.

[timwat]

Part 1: Be encouraged

You got to fulfill a dream, with a bunch of bandmates who it sounds were accepting, welcoming, and tolerant. Realize this is not always the case - as you know from hanging out here with us on this forum, lots of us have been forced to coexist with bandmates who were jerks (or worse). It sounds like for your first step of your journey, you were thankfully saved having that experience, which could have been catastrophic for you. No one sounds to be down on your playing except you.

 

It also doesn't sound like anyone in the band is asking you to leave, and they haven't made noise about trying to "find a better keyboard player". That too is encouraging; it may be that they realize you're a good guy with a humble attitude, and that's more important to them than having a more experienced player with a huge ego. All of these things are not to be taken for granted, and can be fuel for you to look at this as a positive opportunity.

 

Part 2: Take the life lesson

A very big truth of life is that nothing valuable is built without a hell of a lot of effort. It sounds like you've wanted to play music for some time. There is no shortcut to becoming a well-rounded musician. There is no hack to experience. Occasionally, we see astounding wunderkind prodigy on YouTube...but most of us on the forum weren't born that way. It took weeks and years and decades of making the daily decision not to quit and hang it up. I have been regularly discouraged with my playing and been tempted to quit; and here I am decades later, and I never followed through on that decision. Rather, every time I was tempted, I eventually made the decision to keep going...which means, I doubled down and committed to taking the next small step to get a little better. To shore up one area where I was weak. To ask someone better how they do something (and isn't that a humbling thing). And to make the hardest decision of all...which is to sit down by myself and put in the time and not let my butt get out of the chair until I've spent this amount of time. The reason that's the hardest decision of all is because no one gives you a gold star for keeping your butt in the chair.

 

You get to decide if you're going to keep your butt in the chair and keep getting incrementally better. I hope you do. It would be a shame for a musician who loves music and enjoys gigging to hang it up. And realize that grit and resilience (which will pay dividends in EVERY area of your life) are cultivated just this way - by refusing to quit when something gets difficult.

 

Something that helped me a great deal. Some years ago, Johannes Wallman, the head of the jazz program I was in, said, "One thing that distinguishes pros is they see practice as a privilege, not a chore. The amateur sees practice as a chore, a duty. I "have to". The pro has learned to say I have the privilege of being able to practice my instrument 8 hours a day. Most people don't have that. What a wonderful thing that I can focus on my instrument exclusively that way." 

 

I don't know if that helps you at all, but I found it tremendously encouraging at that time of my life.

 

I hope you keep at it - for all sorts of good reasons. I can promise you it's not easy. But I can also promise you it's worth it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But soon, and for the rest of your life.

[ElmerJFudd]

Same notions as above came to me - as with tennis, chess and many other things we do with others - it's great to play with people who are a tier, two tiers above where we are at.  But not as fun for them or us if the difference in skill set is really far apart.  

 

Give up playing music?  Heck no, I'd never do that.  Beat myself up a bit and head back to the wood shed?   All the damn time.  I'd go back to strengthening the weak spots and working with recordings for a bit.  Let them know you'll be back when your confidence has grown.  You may also try to find some people to play with who are closer to your tier.  

[mauriziodececco]

I am not a good keyboarding, by any possible definition. But i playing in three projets, plus a school projet, and i am happy, and my band co-members are happy. 

The secret is the following: at the beginning of my group keyboardist adventure (arrived relatively late in my life), other than working to be a better keyboard player with a limited success, i worked hard to understand what was the correct environment and level i should play in. I tried a lot of stuff, playing with different people, groups, answering to ads of people looking for musicians, and so no; at the beginning more than once i came back home thinking: shit, i'll never touch a keybed again in my life; really, i think that once it took more than one month to being able to think music again.

 

The other point was to understand what i could bring to a group, what kind of skill or sensibility, and to find people that where compatible with what i have to bring (for the exemple, i am a lot better at arranging and composing things than actually playing) ; it took time, but know i am pretty confident that i am good enough for the people i work with; and i have an idea of where my limits are. A group must be a bidirectional exchange, you should be able to learn from the others, but also to give something back.

 

So, coming to your situation: never give up, but try to really understand if you can stay in the group, learn and have fun, without tensions and frustration; if you cannot, leave, and find (or create) an other one, where the differences in musical level is less of a challenge; probably talking with the group members is important, but at the end what really count is how to you feel.

 

Maurizio

[HammondDave]

All great advice from our colleagues. I am 67, have played in clubs since i was 15, and am currently in two bands… one a classic rock working band, and the other an original classic R&B band. This new band is comprised of 6 excellent LA veterans, all of them much superior in skills than I.  I could have told them “You are too good for me to be in your band”… But no. I have learned, like others have said before, that the only way I will improve is by playing with superior musicians. 
 

Don’t give up. Don’t feel inferior. Know that living is life-long learning. Enjoy the journey. 

[Reezekeys]

Good luck to you - I'll just add one quick comment here, that any keyboard player having to cover sax parts is gonna be in a losing situation, no matter their age or experience. Definitely don't beat yourself up over "sucking" at that! It depends on the part and how out front it needs to be of course, but in general it's not easy to do a realistic-sounding solo sax on a keyboard. The best I've heard is the SWAM plugins but those require a computer or iPad and fairly extensive midi control from different sources to sound realistic - probably not ideal for anybody just starting to get into playing keyboards in general.

 

Playing in a band is not the only way to be fulfilled playing music. You can work on your playing at home, and perhaps do some solo gigs (maybe with backing tracks) - maybe volunteer at an assisted living facility? My mom, a total amateur pianist, actually got hired to do this. She turned her noodling on her piano at home into a small income stream and felt good about brightening the residents' days. Not saying this should be a career goal, but maybe one step on your path. Don't give up!

[AWkeys]

All excellent advice here, Jose. If you love music, and you want to play music, try to stoke that fire inside you. Play along with things you love. You might feel worlds away from where you want to be or think you "ought" to be, but if you go at it from the idea of having fun with it, you'll be surprised by how far you can come along. It's hard for us to shut off our inner judge, but that's essentially what you have to do. Think of it like you are a child playing in a sandbox. These are the things I have to remind myself to do, even as a professional musician. It's all about your mindset and shutting off that inner opinionated judge.

 

It's great that you are in a band where they are happy to let you learn alongside them. Keep at it, my friend!

[Steve Nathan]

IMHO:  The absolute best way to get better is to play with people better than you.  Stick with it.  If they didn't think you had potential, they would have let you go by now.  

[Stokely]

I missed the sax thing.

I get out of playing horns in general any way I can, and the ones I do play are the easiest to pull off--horn stabs.  Even those I do with organ or something else on some songs.

The band wanted me to play the sax solo on "Cool Change" and I just "forgot to learn it" until finally the guitar player started playing it   Honestly we don't do that song these days but what I was going to do is pick a sound that might be vaguely "sax like" and do a similar-sounding solo, but not trying to get it exact.

Only songs I ever bowed to the pressure were All She wants to do is Dance and Modern Love...those were easier to pull off and didn't bother me so much for whatever reason.  Who needs logic and consistency in thinking!

 

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, EB5AGV said:

I know they would do better with another keys player (or even without keys, as I am the first keys player on the band since it began in 2012). On the other hand, I know that if I leave, that could be the end of my playing adventure... And that saddens me a lot 😥. I have put quite a lot of effort and expectations on this, and leaving this would hurt very deep.

 

How about you keep being with the band but only playing parts that you can play? If they could live so long without a keyboard player, apparently they are not so desperate to have one that is experienced, so you can just play "warm pads" where you just blend in without being "heard" 😉 I'm (almost) not a gigging musician but reading this forum on a regular basis I'm under the impressions most keyboardists here tend to (humorously) use that catch line about how nobody notices them and there was even a story recently about one who didn't even play due to a faulty keyboard and only pressed keys and nobody noticed 🤣 I'm not saying you should act, I'm rather saying people may not expect from you to be a virtuoso and would be good with an occasional riff or something and unless your ego is not hurt by that, why not just go there and have a band life fun and that in itself will improve your playing even if it takes more time than you personally expect.

[KuruPrionz]

Stay, and Play!!!!!

 

I tried to join a band when I was too young and inexperienced and they wouldn't let me. If they had, I would have done it. 

So I kept at it, got better and eventually they were asking me to play with them. 

In my early 30's I was lead guitar (head decorator) for a band. The bandleader knew literally thousands of songs off the top of his head, played guitar well and sang beautifully. We were always booked. We didn't have many practices before diving in and then we never practiced again for 9 years. We never had a set list either, sometimes we played songs we were all familiar with and sometimes I had to instantly play a song that I may or may not have ever heard before but never played, because there was no other option but to play it. So I did.  

 

I fell short, often at first, less so later on and eventually while I couldn't play "the parts" to a song I hadn't heard, I could play "my part" and listening back to the lo-fi recordings of the band, I was doing a fine job. 

 

Stick with it, you'll get a Phd in Bar Band!!!! 😇

[marino]

To me, it looks like you're having a great opportunity to become a better player (unless you're exaggerating your lack of skills). That's how one learns: By playing with good players.

You have something specific to work on: The band current repertoire. I would concentrate on playing your keyboard parts better and better, working on rhythmic precision, continuity, the right sounds, integration with the group, etc. And your bandmates will hear that.

[brenner13]

What a great place this is and the fine peeps here have such great knowledge.
 

I’ve been there…still am in many ways. I have to practice and practice and memorize and work hard to try and keep up with the talented (“gifted”) folks I get to play with. It is hard and stressful when learning new tunes…they mostly “have” them on the first rehearsal…takes me four of five weeks to just start getting comfortable on some the more complex tunes. I am fortunate they are very patient and help me hone it in. Once it gels, OOOOH…it feels so good and we’re proud of our hard work, even when the general audience has no clue the trials we went through to play their favorite song. That’s okay; we know it and bond tighter with our efforts.

 

Looking back at my half century experience of learning music, it has been short spurts of inspiration and long, arduous, tedious durations of plateau. So glad I stuck with it most of the time when I felt like selling all my gear and taking up some other hobby. Now there are bands that I stuck with for far too long that were toxic and other projects that I kick myself now for bowing out of too soon, but all of those experiences good and bad give us the substance of what we are today.

 

To wax philosophical, there can be no measurement of good times without periods of turmoil. Hope you can stick with it, friend. It sounds like you’ve got a good group that’s providing support and wonderful learning opportunities.

[Docbop]

The best way to learn is to play with others and that is something many who've studied longer than you still don't have the opportunity to do so don't give it up.   If you weren't cutting it then the band would of replaced you already so stop worrying,  do you best and keep on practicing and learning.  

 

Everyone goes through what you're going through.  In the beginning we learn a lot at a fast pace, but once we get some basics down the pace we learn things slows.   Smaller gains take longer the further you go it's just how learning to play music is, so you're doing fine.  Keep playing with the band that is something many keyboardist would give anything for a chance to do.   

[Anderton]

They might consider you an investment. Maybe they like your attitude, and your willingness to stretch yourself and learn. And they just assume your playing will get better over time, even if you hit a plateau from time to time (be careful to differentiate between a plateau and a brick wall).

 

But your playing might be good enough already. With keyboards, I always play within my abilities. They aren't the best in the world, but they aren't the worst, either. However, I do think I'm capable of playing the right thing at the right time. That's what's most important, even if what I play might not be impressive to someone with more technique.

[ABECK]

It takes a LONG time to get "good".  I've been playing for over 30 years and I always feel like I'm no good.  There's ALWAYS someone better...something you need to learn...mistakes to be made, etc....

You will definitely benefit from playing with better players than you.  Strive to push yourself to improve one step at a time.  BUT, and this is important...when performing (e.g. not practicing, rehearsing, noodling), try to avoid playing beyond your abilities.  It is much more impressive and enjoyable to hear a musician play 3 chords in time, at the right dynamic and with consistency than it is to hear a musician fumble through something that is beyond their ability.  

[KenElevenShadows]

3 hours ago, EB5AGV said:

Hi all,

 

 

 

So I try to do my best. But my best is in no way close to what could match the other band members playing level.

It was like a dream to be accepted on this band. It happened because they lost the sax player and one of the members thought on me, as he knew I played the piano and keyboards. I told him about my little experience and he said not to worry. Well, the day I arrived for the first rehearsal, I was very honest with all the people there. They appreciated that, I know. I tried to cover some sax parts... And it sucked greatly 😥

<snip>

But, even if I keep trying to improve, playing daily and attending piano classes, I seem to be unable to get better. The gap in playing is still too large 🙁

 

 

Jose, I've got a lot to say about this and it would come off far better in person.

 

First of all, this sounds like a dream gig. I always want to play with musicians better than me. I always want to challenge myself.

 

Second of all, they chose you. They THOUGHT of you. They said, "This guy is who we want in our band." These great musicians respected YOU enough to ASK you to play in your band. You're doing something that they love. You might already be "good enough". You may also have a great attitude and be a great guy, and that's super-appealing to people in a close-knit band. 

 

To me, it sounds like you're suffering from imposter syndrome. Although this is an article that I wrote for Photofocus, it pertains to anyone suffering from that. Please give it a read. You may feel it's illuminating and inspirational.

 

https://photofocus.com/inspiration/how-we-can-can-triumph-over-imposter-syndrome/

[marino]

One more thing: As i understand it, now the problem is resolved - but just in case, you should be clear with the band that replacing a saxophonist with a keyboard player, and expecting to hear the same sound, is never a good idea. A brass ensemble, perhaps; a solo instrument, no.

[kenheeter]

In my experience the most important quality in a band member is his attitude and personality. Musical talent is nice but if you like each other that's more than half the battle. I would recommend a few lessons from a player who you consider more advanced than yourself. Whenever I feel that I'm not progressing I look for help from others.  Hang in, you won't regret it in the long run.

 

[Ibarch]

Learning is not just piano lessons and technique. Learning to listen is equally important and often overlooked. 

 

If the technique side is tough going, spend more time listening for a while. Listen to the type of music your band plays. Hear the keys parts. Play along with the groove. Explore other genres. Learn to build patches to replicate the feel of tracks. 

 

I had classical training to a reasonable level over 12 years, played in various bands and church groups for over 30 years. Yet in my latest band I still need to learn, spend time listening to the type of music we play, understand when to play, when to stop, when to solo, when to drone and so on. My technique may be fine but there is so much more that makes a great keyboard player. 

 

The best advice is already posted in this thread. Learn to play to your ability, never beyond it. I'm sure you are already adding to the band - after all what is a band without keys! Stop straining, relax and enjoy it. 

[o0Ampy0o]

I have not heard you but from your words I can tell you are too hard on yourself. If you only see yourself surrounded by superior musicians you will define yourself as inferior. Although it is beneficial to play with people who are better than you every chance you get it is also good to play with people who are not (not exclusively but routinely perhaps). It gives you a chance to carry things for others who are weaker which strengthens your own abilities like carrying more weight when teaming up to carry something heavy. This way you have a chance to see where you are better than you think.

[Michael Wright]

First combo band that I played keys for,  took me on, despite my playing for only about a year.  I had played woodwinds in all kinds of situations, since I was a kid, but no keyboard experience at all.  They were all  10-15 years older than me, and quite patient.  I was replaced about a year later,  with one of the killer guys on the scene, which was really a no brainer for them.  That was 45 years ago.  Thing is, I started studying  with this player,   and the rest is history!  Never give up, never give in,  just keep working.  It's worth it.     

[bfields]

This is a familiar feeling!

 

I try to remember that it's a hobby.  I don't have to do it if it's just a source of stress.  But, also, I want challenges.

 

I try to remember that the requirement isn't to impress anyone, at minimum it's just that the band should be better with me than it would be without me.  And I try to trust the opinion of musicians I respect when they say I'm doing that.  Sometimes my value is just being reliable and showing up and playing a simple part that maybe anyone else could also play.  That's OK.

 

Recording helps a lot. As I was reading these comments I remembered there was a show I recorded last fall and never listened to because I left that night feeling like I'd just assaulted everyone's ears, and I just didn't think I was up for the cringe....  Now I'm a half hour in and, you know what?  It's fine.  The stuff I was embarrassed about is there but it doesn't really stand out, overall the band sounds fine, I'm getting a kick out of listening back to it.

 

On the other hand, one of the joys of doing "work" that's not your main career is that you don't actually *have* to climb any particular ladder--you've always got the option of moving on to something totally new and different, and there's no shame in that.

[Al Quinn]

7 hours ago, Steve Nathan said:

IMHO:  The absolute best way to get better is to play with people better than you.  Stick with it.  If they didn't think you had potential, they would have let you go by now.  

+1

 

Playing with people who play better is the best place to be!

[KenElevenShadows]

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

Learning is not just piano lessons and technique. Learning to listen is equally important and often overlooked. 

This too.

[GovernorSilver]

I'm no stranger to impostor syndrome myself.

 

Maybe this guy's practice tips will help you, regarding your perceived improvement rate.   Especially the bits about setting small, tangible goals over a big, impossible looking and vaguely conceived goal.

 

 

 

[David Emm]

I can relate to this from a very different angle. My musical path has been rather bumpy and weird. I've had many types of fits & starts, but I never felt as if giving up was a reasonable choice. Changing direction, yes, but stopping completely, no.

 

My earliest sequencer experience was with an ARP Sequencer, which was sometimes inspiring, but more often maddening. It belonged to a friend and we took turns cussing the early & often mismatched gear we had. I learned from it all, but I also have a few scars to show ya! 

 

Fast forward to Wonderful Now. The wretched hardware lessons I learned served me well through my early Moogs & cheapo effects boxes. Once I got past a couple of early DAWs that were, um, let's politely say "uncooperative," I took up Logic and that hit the right spots for me. Even now, I am surprised (and grin evilly 😈) at how so many early frustrations, gear blowouts & bad people moments are useful layers in my ability to just set up a project and start rolling these days. I never would have expected a sequencer to become my homeboy, but now, its an unbridled pleasure. Well, usually. 🤨

 

One original Oblique Strategies card says "Instead of building a wall, make a brick." Your band experiences so far and even posting about it on here are a growing stash of said bricks. When I bought my first Minimoog, all I knew was that I was dazzled by Wendy Carlos, ELP & Synergy. Now, I can crack pretty much any workstation within an hour or so. Likewise, a day could easily come when you will have built on your skills until you can rock hard in a manner that may seem distant at present, but oh my, that day is one helluva prize. If I can do it, so can you. 💪