Yamaha Reface YC vs Yamaha Reface CP if you could only choose one

[Krakit]

Which of these units would you pick if you could only buy one or the other Yamaha reface?

 

I have strong reasons to desire each of these boards but can't justify the cost of both together. So, what would you choose? Why?

[Mighty Motif Max]

Since you're asking about the Reface units as opposed to the YC and CP stage keyboard lines, I'd probably go with the Reface CP. Unless B3 tones are a priority. I think one appeal is that you can essentially use them as a sound module with a larger weighted keybed if you want. I find EP's more inspiring for general playing, so the Reface CP would be my pick.

[Sean M. H.]

3 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Since you're asking about the Reface units as opposed to the YC and CP stage keyboard lines, I'd probably go with the Reface CP. Unless B3 tones are a priority. I think one appeal is that you can essentially use them as a sound module with a larger weighted keybed if you want. I find EP's more inspiring for general playing, so the Reface CP would be my pick.

 

 

To the OP, may want to put Reface somewhere in the thread title--if you're able to change that after the fact...I definitely missed that in reading your initial post and was thinking you were asking about the big boys

[dje31]

I'd be curious about preferences between the full-size YC vs CP

[Mighty Motif Max]

8 minutes ago, dje31 said:

I'd be curious about preferences between the full-size YC vs CP

Feel free to start a new thread so this one remains on-topic for the OP (and future searches). Here's a fairly recent one! https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/183774-yc88-vs-cp88-quick-question/#comment-2921096

 

[Doerfler]

I have owned both in the past, sold them as the small format doesn't work for me.

If you are an organ player, get the YC. If you are a piano player, get the CP.

Easy peasy 

 

[D. Gauss]

i have both.

 

The CP is great...really great. except you can't get in and out of the "hidden" piano sound without a reboot. might not matter to you, but the piano is reLLY decent.

 

The YC is fun.  great for vox and farfisa but... for B3 you're gonna want an ipad and vb3m or b3x. or a vent/lester then it makes more sense.

 

i use the whurly from the CP all the time.  the organ from the YC?  i just use it (drawbars) to control the ipad.

[Krakit]

Appy Polly Loggies for not being accurate in my headline and for being far too succinct and not being more forthcoming of why I am on the horns of this particular dilemma in the first place. 

 

Okies, here's the straight poop. 

 

I don't really need any more keyboards of this type, but I do want something compact that can travel easily and operate on batteries. 

 

Additionally, in the case of these particular Yamaha reface keyboards I can see them being used for specifics. 

 

Example, if the Yamaha CP version is able I would very much like to use it as a Fender Rhodes Piano Bass stand in for those times when I feel nostalgic for those Doors tribute band days. The size would be perfect for that role. 

On the other hand I kind of miss my old Korg CX-3 with the drawbars. I have considered picking up the Ferrofish B4000+ Organ module to scratch that particular itch, but I also miss having transistor operated combo organs around and I know that the Yamaha YC does a very good job of recreating those. 

 

I'm leaning towards the CP because of that "piano bass" concept although I don't even know if the CP can handle those low ends well enough. I suppose I should ask about that as well. 

 

However, the boards I already own are really good at all manner of electric pianos (at least to my ears), but none of them are outstanding at genuine organ sounds. 

 

It's a pickle. 

 

For what it's worth I already own the CS which I love dearly, in spite of having to fudge a reverb simulation with the onboard delay. 

 

When these things first came out I bemoaned that Yamaha would have done well to create a deluxe version that incorportated the lot of them in a nice 61 or even 88 full sized key variety. Would have snapped that up in a jiff. 

[AnotherScott]

20 minutes ago, Krakit said:

Example, if the Yamaha CP version is able I would very much like to use it as a Fender Rhodes Piano Bass stand in for those times when I feel nostalgic for those Doors tribute band days. The size would be perfect for that role. 

I think it might be tricky to simultaneously be playing LH bass on keys with mini-spacing while your RH is playing another part on a keyboard with regular key spacing...

[Krakit]

2 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I think it might be tricky to simultaneously be playing LH bass on keys with mini-spacing while your RH is playing another part on a keyboard with regular key spacing...

I don't have that problem at all. Never thought of it as a special talent before. 

[16251]

At the time I bought a CP, I had moved from CP4 to a ES110 to enhance Rhodes on 110. I thought CP dynamic range wasn't very good, compared to CP4 Rhodes patches.  BTW I also wanted a couch keyboard.

 

I have moved on to 520, which has a nice Rhodes/effects (IMHO,) so I sold it. I bought CP for $250, sold it for $300.  (Bought a melodica for my couch.)

[ProfD]

Agree with brotha @Doerfler here.

 

I would go with the Reface CP. It should be able to cover piano bass with a little  octave shift.😎

[Noah DC]

Honestly, if you want bass covered, just use the CS. I see Larry Goldings using it for that purpose all the time on his social media.

[Krakit]

4 minutes ago, Noah DC said:

Honestly, if you want bass covered, just use the CS. I see Larry Goldings using it for that purpose all the time on his social media.

Not just any bass, Fender Rhodes Piano bass ala Ray Manzarek. 

 

As it happens I found a video on Youtube where someone compared the CP with an actual Rhodes Seventy Three in all octaves all the way down to the bone shaking bottom octave. I think the CP will work for that just fine.

 

That's not the only application I want it for (pairing it with either my Roland Go Keys or Casio CT-S1 on a two tier stand) that's just something I'd like to be able to do with battery power for those times that I'd be jamming the Doors on the boardwalk for summer fun. 

 

For the most part I'd be using it as a lap friendly keyboard for noodling outdoors here and there. 

 

Shame that I can't see paying for both the CP and YC because together they'd be the perfect piano bass and vox organ replacement tools for the total portable Doors tribute package. 

[CEB]

I wanted the CP to have as a lap keyboard if I wanted to sit on the couch but still chart out tunes.  But it’s nothing I would use otherwise.  

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, Krakit said:

Shame that I can't see paying for both the CP and YC because together they'd be the perfect piano bass and vox organ replacement tools for the total portable Doors tribute package. 

Here's my line of attack: you're looking for a small keyboard (ideally two, but too costly) for your tribute project: "The Pocket Doors". What alternatives are there to the Refaces? I would have thought something like a Casio CTS1 would have an adequate Rhodes sound for LH bass. EDIT just noticed you own a CTS1 and a Go-keys. Do either of those have the sounds you require? Both are highly portable to start with. Choose whatever Reface best complements what you already own.

 

Both the CTS1 and the Gokeys cover similar ground. Could you sell one of the two to top up your funds?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Krakit]

 

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Both the CTS1 and the Gokeys cover similar ground. Could you sell one of the two to top up your funds?

 

I only recently bought the Go Keys and the CTS1. Both of them are very nice sounding but don't support splits. 

I think the CP is the best solution for the whole Doors thing but I don't have any keyboards that can really do organ sounds as well as the YC can. Just for general organy things. 

 

I have traveled with (in turn) the Go Keys or the Casio with the Yamaha CS reface (using the reface for leads in the right hand on upper tier and the larger board for everything else in the lower tier) to great effect. Very portable and compact system. The stand that I use for this can allow me to pick the position for the upper tier either full right side, center or full left side which is why I purchased this stand in the first place. (also for the neat red color TBH)

 

 

I used to tour with a Vox Jaguar (eventually a Continental was added but it didn't belong to me it was the singer's) and a real Fender Rhodes Piano Bass (sparkle top) both of which I sold after I stopped playing with Doors tribute bands. I don't wanna do another full blown tribute thing again, but it would be nice to set something up spur of the moment for nostalgia purposes. Having a larger red (battery powered) keyboard on the bottom and a tiny 3 octave black keyboard above and to the left of that played in a seated position would do just the trick. 

 

I purchased the Go Keys and the Casio for features that don't overlap. It would pain me to part with either of them at this time. 

 

The thing between the two Refaces that give them both appeal aren't the "Doors porn" aspects though, it's just one wrinkle in why I want them. Both of them to my ears sound remarkably like the instruments they each are trying to be. Better than my Roland FA-08's organs (and for the most part the EPs too), better than my Korg X50s (although I did manage to tweak my own patch for Vox organ that is darn good if I do say so myself, if not overly versatile) or even my Korg M3M. But even if these boards could sound that good, they aren't something I would just pick up and take to a friend's BBQ. 

 

I like having a cadre of battery operated, internal speaker boards that I can just pack and go at a moments notice. In fact I don't have to pack them as my Go Keys, Casio and Yamaha CS live in their cases along with batteries, pedals and other sundries so I never forget something when I take them with me.  

 

If I ever (god forbid) decided to join another Doors tribute band (full costume and all) I would opt for shells for both the Rhodes and the Vox and slip my M-Audio Axiom 25 into the sparkle top Rhodes shell and just about any 61 key controller into the Vox jaguar shell for the perfect stage dressing without the expense or maintenance needed  for the real deals. 

 

Yep, I thought about it a lot even though I'd rather have root canal than do another stint of a Doors only headspace again. 

 

Also, to be clear it's not that I couldn't afford to buy both. I could, my mad money bank account could easily absorb both instruments. I just can't justify spending more than $800 dollars for two Refaces at this point. If I wanted to spend that much I would just buy a Studio Logic Numa compact 2X (which I will buy eventually anyway)

 

 

 

 

Why don't I buy the Numa right now? Because I have no room to set it up in my studio space and unlike everything else I would want to use it on the regular and not just for mucking about outdoors (no pun intended). Also, the Numa doesn't run on Batteries. If it did I would buy it today regardless of my lack of space. I want this board BAD. I'll get it after I move into a bigger place someday. 

[stoken6]

56 minutes ago, Krakit said:

Korg X50s (although I did manage to tweak my own patch for Vox organ that is darn good if I do say so myself, if not overly versatile) or even my Korg M3M. But even if these boards could sound that good, they aren't something I would just pick up and take to a friend's BBQ. 

Based on that sentence, buy the CP for BBQ and add the X50 for Doors gigs?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[lightbg]

I actually have all the compact refaces except the DX, and they all have their uses. That being said I enjoy the YC most since it was like having a 4 lb. Hammond (well before the advent of B3X). The fast rotary is a bit over the top, but I found a cure……..

 

 

[AnotherScott]

50 minutes ago, Krakit said:

I only recently bought the Go Keys and the CTS1. Both of them are very nice sounding but don't support splits. 

If you're combining with a Reface, you don't need split to do the Doors thing... and you can do it with either Reface.

 

"CT-S1 + Reface CP", as you're thinking, would have you using Reface for LH Rhodes bass, and CTS1 for your organs. But "CT-S1 + Reface YC" could also work, using CT-S1 for Rhodes bass, and Reface on your right for your organs. On one hand, that limits you to just 3 octaves for your organ, but OTOH, Reface YC is a MUCH better organ than CT-S1. Reface CP is better EP too, but not by as much. (At least that's my take on them from what I've heard, never having owned any of them.)

 

I also wonder if whether, with a little tinkering (i.e. MIDI rerouting, silent patches), you might be able to generally use CT-S1 for EP and Reface YC for organ as mentioned, but then if/when desired, switch it so that the Reface keys are controlling the CT-S1 EP sound while the Casio is controlling the Reface organ sound (i.e. when you want more/larger keys for your organ part than for your Rhodes part).

 

50 minutes ago, Krakit said:

I purchased the Go Keys and the Casio for features that don't overlap. It would pain me to part with either of them at this time. 

 

You might want to consider selling (or trading in) both the Go:Keys and the CT-S1 for the Casio CT-S500, which has all the sounds of the CT-S1, but also a lot of other sounds/versatility which might make the Go Keys redundant. Then you wouldn't have to decide which board to use for a given situation, if indeed the one board gives you what you like best about each of them, and you'd always "have it all" with you.

 

50 minutes ago, Krakit said:

I just can't justify spending more than $800 dollars for two Refaces at this point. If I wanted to spend that much I would just buy a Studio Logic Numa compact 2X (which I will buy eventually anyway)

 

Though the Numa, high value as it is, I think still won't really give you the organ quality/functionality of the Reface YC nor the EPs of the Reface CP.

 

[Krakit]

18 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

You might want to consider selling (or trading in) both the Go:Keys and the CT-S1 for the Casio CT-S500, which has all the sounds of the CT-S1, but also a lot of other sounds/versatility which might make the Go Keys redundant. Then you wouldn't have to decide which board to use for a given situation, if indeed the one board gives you what you like best about each of them, and you'd always "have it all" with you.

It's interesting that you bring this up. I had earmarked the Casio CT-S1000V for purchase last April but because I have a personal boycott going for Apple products and it seems that I can't get the vocal app to work for Android so I eventually passed on it. 

 

I am a very greedy keyboard hoarder that wants everything it seems. 

[D. Gauss]

well i as mentioned earlier own both the YC and CP.  i also own the casio ct-s1, the numa compact 2x and the casio cts-1000v.  i used to have the go-keys or go-piano (forget which) during the pandemic, but couldn't get rid of it fast enough. i just hated the keys. it was like fisher-price to me.

IMO, right off the bat, as mentioned by anotherscott, i'd dump the cts-1 (and the roland thing) and get the ct-s500 (same as 1000v but without the toy speech gimmick).  the ct-s500 is everything the ct-s1 should have been.  same weight, runs on batteries, good piano sound as well as other sounds, does splits, can tweak patches, etc. the only thing i wish it had was audio over usb and a way to name registrations..

the numa is a great thing, too, but it's bigger and lives in the studio to control B3X.

 

i wish i had a picture, but i have a super tiny compact rig that is a Casio CT-S1000V on the bottom, and the Yammy CP & YC side by side on top, all controlled by an ipad mini 6 with Camelot Pro.  I mainly use the internal stage piano from the casio, the Whurly patch from the CP played on the Casio (i'm not a Rhodes guy), and control B3X or VB3m on the Ipad with the YC drawbars and switches. I also have the free NUMA app on the ipad which has a lot of the sounds from the compact 2X.  The whole thing (including the stand) weighs under 25 pounds i think. If for some reason the Ipad goes south, there's still plenty of hardware to get by.

 

[AnotherScott]

19 hours ago, Krakit said:

19 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I think it might be tricky to simultaneously be playing LH bass on keys with mini-spacing while your RH is playing another part on a keyboard with regular key spacing...

I don't have that problem at all. Never thought of it as a special talent before. 

 

Good that it's not an issue for you. Even if it were, the Reface keys aren't as small as some other minikeys (like a MicroKorg), so that would help.

 

3 minutes ago, lightbg said:

I actually have all the compact refaces except the DX, and they all have their uses. That being said I enjoy the YC most since it was like having a 4 lb. Hammond (well before the advent of B3X). The fast rotary is a bit over the top, but I found a cure……..

 

Or instead of the Lester K, you could use the YC to trigger B-3X (or even VB-3m which only requires a smartphone, and is cheap). Oh... and look what posted after I typed that...

 

35 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

i have a super tiny compact rig that is a Casio CT-S1000V on the bottom, and the Yammy CP & YC side by side on top, all controlled by an ipad mini 6 with Camelot Pro. I mainly use the internal stage piano from the casio, the Whurly patch from the CP played on the Casio (i'm not a Rhodes guy), and control B3X or VB3m on the Ipad with the YC drawbars and switches. I also have the free NUMA app on the ipad which has a lot of the sounds from the compact 2X.  The whole thing (including the stand) weighs under 25 pounds i think. If for some reason the Ipad goes south, there's still plenty of hardware to get by.

 

Cool. If I were going to do a super-tiny 3-board rig like that, I think I might replace that Reface CP with a Hydrasynth Explorer. Between what's in the Casio and the iPad apps, the Wurli (and other EPs) should be suitably covered such that the CP is not so indispensable, but the Hydrasynth gives you, not just a cool synth in its own right, but also a poly-aftertouch controller. And you'd have both dedicated organ controls and dedicated synth controls.

[Fleer]

IIRW the Reface CP sound engine is pretty unique, while the YC is just samples. Could be wrong tho. 

[UnderGroundGr]

I have both. They are great. Check a custom stand that a friend of mine made for me.

[D. Gauss]

i have two of these (they're like 3 dollars on ebay) and you can have them side by side. all metal, super sturdy.

 

Rock Band 3 - Keyboard Stand for Xbox 360 PlayStation 3

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, Fleer said:

IIRW the Reface CP sound engine is pretty unique, while the YC is just samples. Could be wrong tho. 

I believe the Reface CP has the SCM EPs from the CP1/5/50.

 

Reface YC is sample based, though using the "organ flutes" implementation from Tyros/Genos, so you have full 9-drawbar independent control (not available in the traditional 8-element AWM implementation that was available pre-Montage), and I'm guessing they are probably phase-locked. I don't know whether they use polyphony the way an "ordinary" drawbar-sampled implementation would (meaning it would use at least 9 instances of polyphony for every note of a 9-drawbar sound)... maybe someone with a Reface YC (128 polyphony) can see if it's possible to hit 15 keys and not hear a drop-out.

[Fleer]

I do like those YC levers though

[Adan]

The YC gets the basic tone of the Hammond, but everything else is weak. Can sound ok through a Vent.  The CP sounds great on its own and can be loads of fun tweaking knobs for psychedelic effects.  

[pjd]

Geek stuff first... The Reface YC and Reface CP digital logic boards are essentially the same. Both use a Yamaha SOC (system on a chip) that combines AWM2 synthesis and a host processor in a single IC. Reface YC organ waveforms are sampled. Reface CP uses both AWM2 and Spectral Component Modeling (SCM). Don't want to deep dive SCM here, but SCM is synthesized through Yamaha's AWM2 pipeline.

 

Hands down, the Reface YC has been a very useful keyboard, especially for rehearsals when I don't want to drag everything in. I love the combo organ sounds. I agree with the limitations mentioned by others -- the rotary speaker fast setting really bites and I don't use it much anymore. I do not regret the Reface YC!

 

Having played other sampled and modeled Hammond lately, Yamaha could up their B-3 just by using beefier samples. Maybe give the player a choice. They've been using the same thin samples for quite some time now in both the synth and arranger product lines. The YC stage models are a different and better story.

 

I have lusted after a Reface CP, too, but the recent price increase has put me off. 

 

-- pj