Nord 6D 73 or 6HP or Hammond SK Pro 73

[Jazzpc]

Good Day All,

 I need a new Keyboard. I have been playing my Korg Krome 88 for a long time and need to move to something with a little less weight and updated/different sound library. I am sold on 73 keys and also narrowed it down to a Nord or Hammond. My challenge is I have no Music stores that carry the models I am looking at so I will be ordering blind so to speak. Although I am not really blind, except when my wife asks if I saw that wall that needs to be painted or that pile of stuff that needs to be moved. (Sorry Honey I got a gig)

  I grew up playing on a acoustic grand piano so the pressure I apply to the keys is not going to change easily but I know I need to make some adjustments. I used to play mainly piano settings so the Hammer Action Keybed on the Korg 88 was great but now I am split about 50/50 Playing Piano and Organ with some synth. Doing mostly classic tunes from Lynyrd Skynyrd to Santana.  

 Has anyone tried all three keyboards listed here and can give me some feedback mostly on the Keybed feel/action between them. Looking for that sweet spot feel for both Piano and Organ. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you   

[BenWaB3]

The Nord will give you the best all-around utility. The Hammond has, IMO, a better Hammond sound but its extra voices are, again IMO, not the best. I have the SKPro and using an iPad to get the extra voices and am happy to use that combination over a Nord but again that's just my opinion and carrying around an iPad or some sort of external module may be more hassle than you want to go through. A Nord 73 user will probably weigh in here on the pros & cons of that instrument. Just taking a quick look at one (Electro 6D) on Google, it looks like there's no pitch or mod wheels so that could end up being an important consideration as well. 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Jazzpc said:

Looking for that sweet spot feel for both Piano and Organ.

It doesn't really exist, because it isn't a continuum, the actions that work best for each are entirely different. Like looking for the sweet spot between an apple and an orange.

 

That said, if you must play piano from a non-hammer action board, some are more playable than others, though none will fool you into thinking you're playing a real piano action. Similarly, if you must play organ from a hammer action board, some are more playable than others, but none will fool you into thinking you're playing something that feels anything like a Hammond organ.

 

Of the three boards you mentioned, if I was going to choose based on which was the best action of the three if your goal was to play both piano and organ (with the understanding that none are ideal), I'd pick the Hammond. The Nord 6D pushes back more, which I actually find worse for both piano AND organ, which is quite a trick. The Hammond also benefits by giving you more ability to adjust the velocity response of the keys than you can get on the Nord. As for the 6HP, based on my experience with other TP/100 boards (since I haven't played that exact model), I'd rank that in last place out of the three... it's not one of the best piano actions, but in this case, it's also one of the weaker hammer actions for organ. But... action may not be the sole criteria here.

 

If I weren't limited to those three, the 7x-key models I'd be most inclined to consider would be Vox Continental and Kurzweil PC4-7, though SK Pro is still a pretty strong contender here I think. I would have included Yamaha YC73 but it's probably not light enough to give you the kind of weight savings you're looking for compared to the Krome 88. Of the semi-weighteds, just for feel, I'd probably rank them 1-Kurz 2-Vox 3-Hammond for piano feel, and 1-Hammond, 2-Vox, and 3-Kurz for organ feel... but all are above average for both piano and organ feel (as non-hammer acctions go). IMO, of course.

 

1 hour ago, BenWaB3 said:

The Nord will give you the best all-around utility. The Hammond has, IMO, a better Hammond sound but its extra voices are, again IMO, not the best. I have the SKPro and using an iPad to get the extra voices and am happy to use that combination over a Nord but again that's just my opinion and carrying around an iPad or some sort of external module may be more hassle than you want to go through. A Nord 73 user will probably weigh in here on the pros & cons of that instrument. Just taking a quick look at one (Electro 6D) on Google, it looks like there's no pitch or mod wheels so that could end up being an important consideration as well. 

 

Sticking with Nord vs Hammond here, I'd say Nord's main advantages are real-time effects controls, better piano sounds, and the ability to load custom samples, while Hammond's main advantages are better sounds in most non-piano categories (including a full synth section, with mono mode, portamento, and those pitch/mod wheels), better MIDI controller abilities (for integrating those iPad sounds), more sound editability, more flexible splits/layers.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I have played all three; I currently own an SK Pro 73, and I used to own a Krome (61) so I'm well versed in that soundset. I would concur with AnotherScott's post above, in that the best all-rounder action; it's smooth and doesn't feel cheap. That said, the SK Pro's pianos are not good enough for exposed piano parts IMO. They work fine in a band mix, even a fairly small one (think acoustic guitar, bass, keys, a few singers, and cajon). But in a rock setting, they would be fine. You have to realize that the SK Pro is first and foremost a Hammond organ clone. It does that extremely well. Everything else is secondary. Whereas the Nord Electro 6 is more of an equal balance between organ and other sounds; the organ won't be as good as the Hammond, but the pianos and electric pianos will be WAY better. The action is the sticking point for me - I've played both the HP and SW waterfall actions that Nord uses on the current Electros; the SW waterfall action (on the 6D 61/73) is very tightly sprung. I've tried to play piano parts from one and it wasn't great. I'd take it over an overly loose action, but it's not great for fine control of dynamics. The HP action, which is a Fatar TP-100, is complete garbage IMO. It's mushy, slow, and doesn't feel like any piano nor any organ I've played - it's sort of like a bad Rhodes action, but slower and springier/has more resistance.

 

Another factor to consider - you mentioned that you use some synth patches here and there. If you're wanting to do splits/layers, the Electro 6 has 3 zones/can split & layer 3 parts - one organ, one piano, and one sample (includes synth samples). The SK Pro can do 4 zones/splits/layers - one organ, two sampled sounds (this includes pianos, EP's, strings, etc), and one mono-synth. The SK Pro is better if you're using synth leads, but its non-lead synth sounds are rather weak; you could probably get better results even with the limited sample capabilities in the Electro 6.

 

AnotherScott mentioned the YC73 - if this is within your weight range, this is easily the best choice for you. The organ is pretty good with the new rotary simulation, the pianos/EP's are excellent, and most importantly, the action is a much better playing experience than either of the Nords. It's more like a piano than the SK Pro, which honestly feels like an organ. If I had to pick one for your specific use case, I'd go with the YC73.

 

To sum this all up:

SK Pro 73: Best keybed (feels like an organ), best organ, best synth leads, 4 zones, has pitch/mod controls.

Electro 6D: Best pianos/EP's, best other synth sounds (synth brass, pads, strings, etc), no pitch/mod controls.

Electro 6 HP: don't bother if you care about the keybed. Otherwise, all Electro 6D comments above apply.

 

If within your weight limit, the best option is the YC73: best keybed (feels more like a piano), great pianos/best EP's, pitch/mod controls, good synths, very good organ.

[Al Quinn]

I have an SK Pro and YC73; and I sold an Electro 4D earlier this year. Cutting to the chase the YC73 is easily the best choice. The action is very good for piano and good enough for organ. Of course, it’s not great for either but the challenge for a great hybrid action is difficult and I think Yamaha has reached a very good compromise. The acoustic and electric piano sounds are excellent. The Hammond sound is very good. Synth, horns, and strings are very good. It’s a fun keyboard to play.

 

Electro 4D: the action isn’t good for piano or organ but the pianos sound very good and the organ sounds good. Horns and strings are mediocre. For me, it’s a frustrating keyboard to play.

 

SK Pro: the Hammond and internal Leslie effect are great but I find the acoustic and electric pianos to be un-gigable.The mono synth is very good. The action is great for organ and playable for piano (I.e., I sometimes use it to trigger an external piano module). 

[AnotherScott]

21 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

The SK Pro can do 4 zones/splits/layers - one organ, two sampled sounds (this includes pianos, EP's, strings, etc), and one mono-synth.

And in fact the "two sampled sounds" can actually each include up to 4 sounds which are, themselves, split and/or layered! Or triggered at different velocities. Quite versatile.

 

21 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

The SK Pro is better if you're using synth leads, but its non-lead synth sounds are rather weak; you could probably get better results even with the limited sample capabilities in the Electro 6.

Neither is first class here, but I'd give the Hammond the edge, because the sampled sounds we are talking about can have velocity switching (Nord only has that in its piano section), and are fully editable (envelopes, filters, LFOs, EQ, etc.). So for example, the Hammond flute can be overblown on a hard attack, you can't create that on the Nord.

 

18 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

SK Pro: the Hammond and internal Leslie effect are great but I find the acoustic and electric pianos to be un-gigable.

I think the EPs are better than Nord's. Over in the big Nord thread, some of us were discussing how the raw Nord EPs need manual finesse. It may not be as obvious that the Hammond's benefit from that as well, but if you put a little time into them, I think you can get better EPs, and not have the limitations the Nord has of making it difficult or impossible to re-use your favorite EP sounds in combination with other sounds. And in fact, it didn't even require much tweaking... I basically got the EPs I wanted out of them just by tweaking their velocity parameters.

[Al Quinn]

Scott, that’s great that you were able to tweak the SK Pro EP to your satisfaction. I tried a few things that people suggested but couldn’t get a sound I liked. If there’s an easy way for you to share your settings I would be very appreciative. 
 

My experience with the Nord EPs is kind of strange. I enjoy playing them and think they sound good but they don’t actually sound close to the real deal. So, from a purist perspective I shouldn’t have described them as very good. 

[AnotherScott]

11 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

Scott, that’s great that you were able to tweak the SK Pro EP to your satisfaction. I tried a few things that people suggested but couldn’t get a sound I liked. If there’s an easy way for you to share your settings I would be very appreciative. 

Of course different people go for different things, and I like to easily get an aggressive barky sound... so it was really the Velocity parameters. On the Rhodes Mk 1, for component 1, try Offset of +10 (or maybe something else in the +5 to +15 range to taste). If you're losing too much of the soft side, try bringing up Velocity Depth from 100 to maybe about 125. Wurly seemed to need a bit less offset, maybe try +3 to +10.  There's a lot more you can do (EQ etc.) but velocity response alone made a big difference to me. It's like, the samples I wanted were there, they just weren't coming in soon enough as I played harder, making the EP unsatisfying and kinda dead. Getting good velocity response is always tricky with non-hammer actions, but for me, kicking into the higher velocity samples sooner was the key to making them more alive. (And really, that's very much what I did on the hammer action YC73, too!)

[Adan]

Really tough to advise someone on which "compromise" keyboard to get, because there's so many variables.  Some people would prefer hammer action so they can lean more into piano with greater sacrifice on the organ.  Other people feel just the opposite.

 

The SKPro does really well until you get to acoustic piano, where it fails pretty badly with the internal sounds.  The Nord is far behind the Hammond for organ, but at least the Nord doesn't have an achilles heel.  I would rule out the Nord HP because the TP100 action is really terrible for organ.

 

There's a lot of consensus on this forum behind the Yamaha YC73 being maybe the best compromise keyboard available.  I'm probably in that camp.

 

Agree with Scott that the Vox Continental should be in the mix for consideration, particularly if you don't need splits.  The Hammond emulation on the Vox isn't quite top tier, but should be good enough for bar band gigs.  The pianos are all excellent and very playable from the semi-weighted keys.  And it's light as  feather.

[stoken6]

Lots of good advice here so far. I think the first decision is: hammer-action or waterfall? If the former - and I'm thinking that might suit the OP better - then the YC73 has stellar pianos, and very good (with the latest OS) organs. It's 30lb, which is a useful weight saving over the 45lb Krome. More limited synth/rompler soundset than some of the other options. I personally would avoid the Electro HP with its TP/100 action.

 

For waterfall keys, +1 on Vox Konti (the slightly limited organ implementation might not matter too much in this case), Kurz PC4-7 (which is more of a workstation board), and I would add Roland VR730 to the mix. I love Hammond's concept for the SK pro, but acoustic piano in particular lets it down. 

 

Another angle is to combine two lightweight boards with differing action. You could plug the Hammond's piano deficiency with a Yamaha P121, for example.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

4 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

The SK Pro is better if you're using synth leads, but its non-lead synth sounds are rather weak; you could probably get better results even with the limited sample capabilities in the Electro 6.

Neither is first class here, but I'd give the Hammond the edge, because the sampled sounds we are talking about can have velocity switching (Nord only has that in its piano section), and are fully editable (envelopes, filters, LFOs, EQ, etc.). So for example, the Hammond flute can be overblown on a hard attack, you can't create that on the Nord.

Yes, that is true for acoustic-ish types of sounds. However, if one's trying to create your "classic" synth patches for a cover band (like the OP mentioned), there isn't really a lot of waveforms to choose from, and the FX can't compensate enough for that. Even the synth waveforms that are available just don't seem particularly high-quality. For me, I'd rather take a single-layer high-quality synth sample over a 4-layer synth sound made with inferior samples. It's not that the SK Pro's are terrible, but they're definitely at the bottom of the list of any keyboard I have owned. Even my old Korg X5D has better synth patches/waveforms. Then again, the Hammond is not really a polysynth and was never marketed as such.

 

[Farfisakid]

Jazzpc, just curious if you considered the Numa X 73 piano when you narrowed down your choices to the Nord or Hammond. I am in a somewhat similar situation in that I am looking for something to replace my CP 4 (key action and velocity issues due to age and use) with a 73 board that I can use as an all in one when I would rather not use my 2 board set up (and for that as well) for organ/synth and piano. The Numa is about 27 pounds I believe and seems to be an attractive one in terms of cost/sounds/weight ...

[Sunlight2]

Good point made above about waterfall v hammer action - your preferences here will decide it. I have an Electro 73 SW below a MODX7 and use the Electro for piano and organ. I was very interested in the YC73 as a replacement for the Nord for a few reasons, notably the decent synth section and the functionality with an Ipad (something i've not ventured into yet). 

 

However when it arrived I found it just a tad too heavy a schlep for my liking, no doubt down to the excellent hammer action keybed. The Nord is such a sweetspot when it comes to weight and I found the keybed fine for playing piano (I'm classically trained) in my rock covers band. If I was doing solo piano gigs I'd probably lean towards the Yamaha again but for band stuff, I'm sticking with the Nord. Oh and the pianos in the Nord sum to MONO very well with a dedicated button, although many have said the YC is fine if you use the Right output rather then traditional Left.

[Stokely]

I owned an Electro 6d, I really liked it and only sold to fund a Stage 3 that I never ended up buying.  Now they are priced too high.

Recently I bought an SK Pro, when I say recently I mean "used on one gig, owned a week"     I really like it but certainly I haven't dug in as much as with the electro.  By far my main use case was for organ, all other sounds I can easily get on my Modx (especially since I installed the Purgatory Creek library on it.)

Both have a similar build quality, which is excellent, with built-in power supplies.  They feel premium, I miss the wood side cheeks on the SK pro a bit.  The Nord offered more hands-on control for fx, that's for sure.   That said, I don't often do that much live tweaking on fx.   I really actually like the "combination" patches on the hammond, because basically one combi patch is four patches in one--put my main organ, main piano/rhodes, main ensemble (strings) and my favorite mono lead into the four combi slots and that's one patch that covers a ton of ground.  Just hit the buttons for "organ", "piano" etc to toggle these.   Because I'm using this keyboard for single sounds at a time, and not as a do-everything, this is very useful.  It means that the (10?) favorite buttons are actually a lot more as I can load those combis with my favorite single sounds.

Organ-wise they both are good enough to me but I give the edge to the Hammond.  Pianos/rhodes go to Nord but they don't sound terrible on the Hammond--and I probably shouldn't even make this comparison because I've barely listened to the Hammond sounds in this category-- but again I'll be using Purgatory creek on the modx for rhodes/wurli/clav and the modx acoustic pianos.   I'm finding the ensemble sounds on the Hammond to sound good, which surprised me, they are also very good on the Nord--talking strings/horns and synths.  I haven't yet gotten in there to try to tweak these on the Hammond, this ability was limited on the Nord.   The big extra for the Hammond is the mono synth, which sounds very good and will get some use with the songs I play.  It's a bit annoying that filter cutoff can't (i don't think) be controlled from mod wheel, and it's way on the right side of the keyboard.

I'm very happy with my SK pro purchase so far, but as I said loved my Electro as well and strongly considered buying another one.   I got the SK for 2200 brand new, the electro is quite a bit more brand new these days.

Edit:  forgot a big one.  I prefer the action on the SK Pro, it feels a fair bit less springy than on my electro.  Still a bit more springy than my VR700, but pretty easy to play.  The Electro is a bit stiff for me.  It's one reason I delayed buying the Stage 3 compact originally, by the time I decided to go for it they jacked the darn prices.

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, Adan said:

The SKPro does really well until you get to acoustic piano, where it fails pretty badly with the internal sounds.  The Nord is far behind the Hammond for organ, but at least the Nord doesn't have an achilles heel.

 

Arguably Electro's achilles heel is in the synth area (esp. lead)... no mono mode,  no portamento, no pitch or mod wheels, minimal-to-no controls for envelope, filter, LFO. Secondary achilles heel is orchestral sounds (strings, brass, winds) where all sounds are limited to a single velocity layer with no alternate articulations available. 

 

7 hours ago, stoken6 said:

the YC73 has stellar pianos, and very good (with the latest OS) organs. It's 30lb, which is a useful weight saving over the 45lb Krome

 

Krome 88 is 32.4 lb.

 

6 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Yes, that is true for acoustic-ish types of sounds. However, if one's trying to create your "classic" synth patches for a cover band (like the OP mentioned), there isn't really a lot of waveforms to choose from, and the FX can't compensate enough for that. Even the synth waveforms that are available just don't seem particularly high-quality. For me, I'd rather take a single-layer high-quality synth sample over a 4-layer synth sound made with inferior samples. It's not that the SK Pro's are terrible, but they're definitely at the bottom of the list of any keyboard I have owned. Even my old Korg X5D has better synth patches/waveforms. Then again, the Hammond is not really a polysynth and was never marketed as such.

 

If you're looking to create poly synth patches from scratch, you do have a decent number of raw waveform samples to choose from... saw, square, pulse 66/75/80, sine, white noise, and you can layer those "oscillators" and process them via filters, envelopes, LFOs, etc., again almost none of which you can do on the Nord. OTOH, Nord does have many more "pre-programmed" sampled synth sounds. SK Pro has a handful, e.g. it does have some sampled synth brass and synth strings in there, but Nord does have a lot more in the way of ready-to-go sampled synth sounds (which it kind of has to, since you can't really create your own)... and yes, some of them are quite nice, having been sampled from a variety of different analog synths. Along with this, Nord also has an advantage in having samples of lots of other vintage key stuff... mellotrons, string machines, and the like. So yeah, I had more been thinking about the other acoustic sounds. When it comes to the non-acoustic other sounds, I think it's harder to pick a winner, it depends what you're looking for... lots of barely-modifiable presets of vintage sounds, vs. a fully editable poly synth (even though you're dealing with a sample-based foundation either way).

 

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Recently I bought an SK Pro...I really actually like the "combination" patches on the hammond, because basically one combi patch is four patches in one--put my main organ, main piano/rhodes, main ensemble (strings) and my favorite mono lead into the four combi slots and that's one patch that covers a ton of ground.  Just hit the buttons for "organ", "piano" etc to toggle these.   Because I'm using this keyboard for single sounds at a time, and not as a do-everything, this is very useful.  It means that the (10?) favorite buttons are actually a lot more as I can load those combis with my favorite single sounds.

 

That's how I generally used the 4-part Scenes on the Vox Continental, too.

 

 

[funkyhammond]

I agree with some others that the YC73 is a really good option unless saving only 3 lbs weight vs the Kronos is not enough. It has a bit of a lighter feeling hammer action that is still usable for organs. I'm surprised that Yamaha only released a 61-key semi-weighted version and didn't also make a 73 SW. Maybe with the next iteration.

 

I'm not a fan of the stiff springs on the modern Nords (which I think started back with the Electro 4 and Stage 2 but not sure). Even though the idea is to create more resistance for piano playing, it just feels wrong to me. The resistance is constant all the way down as opposed to a hammer action that lets up because of momentum. Some people complain that it is tiring to play because of this.

 

Between the Nord and Hammond, I would probably get the Hammond but I'm also biased because I'm more of an organ player. I own the older Nord C1 dual manual organ and I have now grown tired of the Nord organ sounds even in the modern Nords. They don't quite have the grit and chunky percussion sound of other top emulations. And the overdrive never really sounded like a tube Leslie type of overdrive to me. I now use my C1 as a controller for software organs.
 

In favour of the Nords, they tend to sound good in a live mix with little tweaking. I think that is what they have always been tuned for. They may not sound totally authentic to the player when you're just sitting playing with it, and the core sounds may not be very customizable, but in a band mix, they seem to easily work well. Also, Nords have always had very good build quality. And they are very much sought after and have a high resale value if you ever decide down the road it's not for you. 

 

(On a side note: probably not important to you, but the Hammond SK Pro has a cool feature if you're playing rhythmic/staccato organ parts where it will sometimes not fully voice all the drawbars of notes played very staccato to more closely simulate the effect on a real Hammond. This can be turned off in the settings if not desired.)

[Jazzpc]

Thank you all for the great comments, comparisons and recommendations. Reading through all of them again to get a good overall consensus. Take Care  

[Polychrest]

5 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

I have now grown tired of the Nord organ sounds even in the modern Nords. They don't quite have the grit and chunky percussion sound of other top emulations. And the overdrive never really sounded like a tube Leslie type of overdrive to me.

I agree.  I've owned three 73-key SW Electros, a 2, a 3, and a 6D, which I still have.  (I also briefly owned an Electro 3 73 HP, the one with the squishy garden slugs for keys.  The less said about that mistake the better.)  Their ground-breaking Hammond emulations were what originally attracted me to these boards, but these days, I won't take my Electro 6 out without a Vent.  That invaluable pedal can give it top-end rotary effects and grit, but as FH implied, the Electro's native percussion is tired--more clacky than chunky.  The percussion on the SK Pro line is much truer to the original, and its internal Leslie effect and overdrive are good enough to allow a Hammond purist to leave the Vent and its extra cabling at home.  That gear simplification--with little loss of sound quality--could be significant if your first priority in a one-size-fits-all board is organ.

[Outkaster]

I have an SK Pro and I never need the vent . On Facebook there is a Pro forum for the SK and a lot of people are always wondering if you need a vent with the keyboard. I think it sounds good on it's own.

[stoken6]

On 11/29/2022 at 6:06 PM, Jazzpc said:

a good overall consensus

You won't find a consensus here! But it's all so subjective... good luck in your search.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoken6]

On 11/29/2022 at 4:18 PM, AnotherScott said:

On 11/29/2022 at 7:45 AM, stoken6 said:

the 45lb Krome

Krome 88 is 32.4 lb.

"Shipping weight" is 45lb - rookie mistake!

 

Cheers, Mike.

[funkyhammond]

On 11/30/2022 at 9:25 AM, Outkaster said:

I have an SK Pro and I never need the vent . On Facebook there is a Pro forum for the SK and a lot of people are always wondering if you need a vent with the keyboard. I think it sounds good on it's own.

 

Does anyone on the facebook page say that they use a Vent with the SK Pro even after trying to tweak the internal Leslie sim (which has a lot of deep settings)?

 

[Outkaster]

26 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

 

Does anyone on the facebook page say that they use a Vent with the SK Pro even after trying to tweak the internal Leslie sim (which has a lot of deep settings)?

 

Maybe a couple guys.  I just can't see bringing the pedal. The advantage of the pedal is not really measurably better as the PRO does a great hob.  It can kind of be a pain the ass to bring the pedal but I understand why people do.  I will bring it if I use the other rig with a Korg Kronos. 

[Al Quinn]

I don’t use my Vent with the SK Pro. I’ve never even had the urge to try it. The SK Pro internal sim sounds great!

[Bart Houkes]

My keyboard is extremely heavy with 30 kg, but I have not seen any good alternative for 10 kg. The Nord has a bad organ and NO PITCH BEND, the Hammond has a bad piano and no samples, the Yamaha is tin-can music for amateurs, so I remain using the Roland Fantom 8. The piano is great and hammond is superb, although Hammond is only on channel 2. Maybe I should get the Fantom-07 for light weight action, but having 2 in the same series is also overkill.