EricBarker Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 For me (I’m putting together an iPad rig until April rolls around before I buy a Nord), I’m having a hell of a time finding a USB hub for iPad and iPhone that has: - a headphone Jack for audio out - 1+ USB ports for MIDI - USB-C for power I found one for USBC iPad pretty quickly, but it’s slim pickings for iPhone. I have an iPhone12 so I figure I might try and replicate my setup in case I want to use my iPad for reading music, or something happens. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 This one looks like a good choice, from a known manufacturer. Headphone, 2 USB-A for MIDI and USB-C passthrough. (Plus HDMI that you don't need) https://www.startech.com/en-gb/universal-laptop-docking-stations/dkt30ichpd Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 That's made more for tablets I think. You might be able to use that or a similar dock-style hub with a USB-C extension cable though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, Reezekeys said: That's made more for tablets I think. You might be able to use that or a similar dock-style hub with a USB-C extension cable though. True - I missed that. So you'll need a lightning connector. I would steer clear of third-party Lightning devices - either Apple/lightning or third-party via an Apple USB adapter. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radagast Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 On 1/28/2023 at 11:51 AM, Stokely said: I may be back in the ipad-for-audio game once Pianoteq for IOS comes out...I'm still hoping to find a better mono piano. That's if I don't get a Fantom, which according to my buddy (very picky about pianos he tends to be!) sounds great at his gigs in mono. So when is Pianoteq for iOS coming out? 1/12 of the year is gone already. Are they waiting until NAMM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 hours ago, EricBarker said: - a headphone Jack for audio out - 1+ USB ports for MIDI - USB-C for power There are a number of those which, themselves, have USB-C connections to the device, but you need something with a lightning connector to the iPhone, so you'd have to add a lightning-to-USB-C connector... and I have no idea whether that adds compatibility issues (like whether power that comes in over the USB-C connection actually charges the iPhone after going through that adapter). But I guess you could order some returnable stuff from Amazon and try it. I happened to have been looking for similar things myself recently, so these were in my saved list, but I can't vouch for them... For the hub itself, this one and this one appear to be identical. This one adds a second USB port (and an HDMI you don't care about). Some others add still more kinds of ports and are no pricier than that one, but you don't need the ports and that makes them bigger than you'd need. And then it looks like their are tons of USB-C/Lightning adapters. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 41 minutes ago, Radagast said: So when is Pianoteq for iOS coming out? 1/12 of the year is gone already. Are they waiting until NAMM? I haven't a clue. I'm actually not really waiting on it, for one thing it would probably mean I need a new ipad (I have a 4th gen). By the time it does come out maybe I'll have solved my mono woes with something else I even got mainstage and was putzing around with some of my vst pianos, but none of them fared any better in mono than the modx ones. Even the "mono" microphone in Hammersmith pro--it was indeed mono but it sounded distant and crappy. NI's The Grandeur fared the best out of my herd. I have absolutely no wish to bring out (and find a place for) a laptop in my rig but if that's the solution I'll do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Ignore my last comment, since I mistakenly thought the iPhone 12 was a model that had USB-C. Just checked and no iPhones have USB-C – there's just been many rumors of USB-C coming to iPhone and I got confused, nothing new there! Yes the lightning dock situation is not great if you're looking for a 3.5mm audio output. I had a 3rd-party one and it was junk. Apple doesn't make one. I thought maybe Belkin had one - Apple sells some Belkin adapters in the Apple store but no dice, at least from what I just saw. This really sucks because you're forced to hang multiple dongles, or a USB cable to a hub that you plug in one of those cheap "sound card" USB adapters (they actually sound fine and work OK for gigging) or another cable to an external audio interface, etc. No getting around the mess. I'm so happy I kept my old iPhone SE (original 2016). It might be worth trying to find a used or refurb iPhone with a headphone jack and dedicating it to a music rig. My SE handles my AWB setup with AUM and multiple instances of Korg Module, AudioLayer and others, all at a respectable 128 sample buffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Yeah, this is the problem I’m facing. I’m tempted to try a Lightning to USB-C adaptor to an iPad hub… but I have no idea whether power or audio would survive the adaption. I nabbed up one of those cheap Chinese hubs, they seem to work for some people, not for others. We shall see, it’s mostly an experiment. If I can adapt to the USB-C hub, that would probably be a much safer bet. I’d rather not get a new old phone. The point of this experiment is I ALWAYS have my iPhone12 on me, if something were to happen, it would just be there ready to go. Also, it’s probably almost as powerful as my 2019 iPad Pro. I’ll figure something out and report back! EDIT: I just read that no USB-C adaptor will send audio, that’s a lightning-specific element. So if I ever wanted to use a USB-C hub, I’d have to first peel the audio off with a Lightning headphone hub first. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, EricBarker said: EDIT: I just read that no USB-C adaptor will send audio, that’s a lightning-specific element. So if I ever wanted to use a USB-C hub, I’d have to first peel the audio off with a Lightning headphone hub first. I think the truth is more complex. If I understand correctly, lightning has an "alternate mode" where it can send analog(ue) audio on some of its pins. That's why the lightning->1/8in adapter is so small and simple. USB (including USB-C, which is just a plug/socket specification) requires D/A and A/D conversion to support audio - which is how PC/Mac audio interfaces work. I think that lightning also supports digital audio, including when converted to USBC using an Apple CCK or similar - so you could use the CCK into a hub, and from the hub plug a USB audio interface, and it should work. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, stoken6 said: If I understand correctly, lightning has an "alternate mode" where it can send analog(ue) audio on some of its pins. That's why the lightning->1/8in adapter is so small and simple. Sorry, wrong! The tiny lightning-to-1/8" audio adapter in all its glory: https://www.ifixit.com/News/8448/apple-audio-adapter-teardown That refurb SE2016 or 6S is looking more attractive, right?! I see them for around $75 (£61) - not much more than a hub & cheapo audio adapter (maybe even less?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenWaB3 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Reezekeys said: Ignore my last comment, since I mistakenly thought the iPhone 12 was a model that had USB-C. Just checked and no iPhones have USB-C – there's just been many rumors of USB-C coming to iPhone and I got confused, nothing new there! What you might be thinking of is that Europe is passing a law requiring all devices to use the USB-C standard in future phones. Don't know if that's the European Union or some regulatory body over there and also not sure when they plan to have it take effect. Meanwhile, back here in the States, we'll probably be stuck with lightning for some time to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Apple said they will switch to the USB-C connector as required, but they are going to throttle it to an old USBer spec'. That's the thing about standards they spec' in and out like a black box they don't cover implementation inside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Not audio-related, but I just picked up Set List Maker and the Midi add-on. This should help me switch patches quicker, our set lists change from gig to gig (we rotate songs so they don't get stale) and it's a struggle to switch two keyboards sometimes depending on what songs go back to back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 On 1/31/2023 at 9:11 AM, Radagast said: So when is Pianoteq for iOS coming out? 1/12 of the year is gone already. Are they waiting until NAMM? Did they commit to coming out with it in 2023? At any rate, the odds of a January release for something promised in 2023 is probably 1-in-12... at best. If it were that imminent, they'd probably say something like "first quarter" ... which of course usually means March 31. ;-) FWIW, someone posted in another forum that, on November, someone from their support said to look for it in about 6 months... Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 I got a little hub for my iPhone, Ravenscroft for my IPad and iPhone… only to find out that Camelot Pro is IPAD ONLY!!! Absolutely gutted. My plan was to use iPhone as an AU host, so I could use my iPad for sheet music, and Nope. I’ve been eyeballing Camelot since the early days when iPhone/iPad OSs weren’t split. I had no idea they had made it iPad Only. This puts a big wrench in my plans. Is AUM a decent live host alternative? Looks very studio oriented, and that’s not really my bag. I guess the last alternative is to switch gears and use Camelot to do sheet music too on the iPad. Not sure I want the same device to do notes and hosting at the same time in different programs. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, EricBarker said: I’ve been eyeballing Camelot since the early days when iPhone/iPad OSs weren’t split. I had no idea they had made it iPad Only. Oh yeah. Even before they gave the iPad OS its own name/identity, there were always plenty of apps that were "iPad only -- and Camelot Pro has always been one of those. In the discussion of different possible hosting apps, iPhone compatibility is nice advantage for AUM. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Even if I went iPad (I’m still open to the idea and have a nice iPad Pro), I was thinking it would be slick to have iPhone as a backup. Makes me kinda sad that that’ll never be an option. so… now got 2 choices. A) Use the iPad for BOTH AU hosting and Sheet music with the best Host available. B) slum it on AUM but have the option of using iPhone. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Also, I could have SWORN the very first version of Camelot ran on iPhone. I used it on Mac for a hot second back when it lacked an effects chain (weird), but thought it was universal iOS. Could be wrong tho. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 1 hour ago, EricBarker said: Is AUM a decent live host alternative? Looks very studio oriented, and that’s not really my bag. Perhaps the reason some people think of AUM as studio-oriented is that it appears as channel strips. For that reason I think of it as more like MainStage. If you're used to that, AUM should suit you fine. It's very stable and powerful under the hood with tons of user control. I've loaded and deleted Camelot a few times. Each iteration is a little more full-featured, but basically I can't get on with the boxes interface. It just doesn't feel like making music to me. YMMV. 1 Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 I've only used AUM so I can't know how it exactly compares to Camelot but I'll say that I only use it live, and it does everything I need. Not sure what the "live vs studio" distinction is - although I can see live playing as more demanding since one may need to quickly switch presets, sounds, split points, etc. No complaints here, although I also use Midiflow (a separate app that's a midi processor/router) and Streambyter (an AUv3 that's essentially a midi-oriented programming language) to accomplish a few more esoteric things. The other point I'll make is that before I got my new iPad 9G I was using an 8-year-old iPad Air 2, simultaneously running both AUM for my live rig and ForScore for chart reading, with zero issues. My AUM setup uses 8 AUv3s along with other channels (for submixing, adding efx and midi processing). You say you have an iPad PRO - I'm almost positive you should have no problems running both Camelot and a sheet music program like ForScore simultaneously on your iPad. My iPad 9G is the lowest-spec'd iPad currently sold, and it handles everything I've mentioned with ease. I'll add that my AUM setup is designed so I don't need to see the screen - every parameter I need to work is mapped to a knob, button, pad or slider on my controller. I don't think I would enjoy having to set up two iOS devices at every gig! Believe me you do not want to have to edit an AUM setup on a phone - but of course I'm happy it works on my old SE2016 for the gigs where I don't need to read charts! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 On 1/5/2023 at 10:53 AM, Reezekeys said: Embrace the dongle! (Doing my best to lessen any strain on the lightning connector and port)! That's really the only way to go. I don't like running off of battery power, and Apple accessories always work flawlessly with their products. I bought Camelot a few years ago but didn't bother tackling the learning curve when I discovered that it would not play Standard MIDI Files. Have they included that in subsequent revisions? Quote The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 You make a good point about not needing to use the screen. the other option is I know Camelot has a decent notepad area. For years I just took text notes in Mainstage. If I could load in a PDF or two per song, that would be heaven! Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Korg Module has options to view images, PDF’s etc as songlists but also has a notes section for each patch. The more I think about it, I have historically become bored with any one synth or workstation over time. If a keyboard manufacturer offered swap out engines and a 10” touch screen, players would no doubt be all over it. Paired with the perfect keybed on the midi controller of your choice, that is essentially what you get. Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Keystage 61, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), iPad 9th gen, Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Paul Woodward said: If a keyboard manufacturer offered swap out engines and a 10” touch screen, players would no doubt be all over it. Paired with the perfect keybed on the midi controller of your choice, that is essentially what you get. Something like that has been done - if "swap out engines" can be equated to "using the plugin of your choice." https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/open-labs-open-synth-neko-64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Reezekeys said: Something like that has been done - if "swap out engines" can be equated to "using the plugin of your choice." https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/open-labs-open-synth-neko-64 Pretty much what a modern iPad can do, without all the outputs of course. Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Keystage 61, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), iPad 9th gen, Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Yes. I know I posted something here a while ago wondering if someone could make a keyboard controller with a built-in dock for a tablet - one that automatically connected power and audio, no fussing with cables, dongles or adapters. Perhaps with a multi-output audio interface in the body of the keyboard. I think that right now Macs/PCs still have the edge for top-shelf plugins and sounds but the gap is closing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, Reezekeys said: Yes. I know I posted something here a while ago wondering if someone could make a keyboard controller with a built-in dock for a tablet - one that automatically connected power and audio, no fussing with cables, dongles or adapters. Perhaps with a multi-output audio interface in the body of the keyboard. I think that right now Macs/PCs still have the edge for top-shelf plugins and sounds but the gap is closing. That would be great, but with the latest iPad (and pro’s) it’s just a single cable and no connection kit. Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Keystage 61, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), iPad 9th gen, Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said: That would be great, but with the latest iPad (and pro’s) it’s just a single cable and no connection kit. Ha, I forgot - my new iPad still has lightning. Yes USB-C should make it even easier to do this. How come somebody doesn't steal my great idea? 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Reezekeys said: Ha, I forgot - my new iPad still has lightning. Yes USB-C should make it even easier to do this. How come somebody doesn't steal my great idea? 🙂 Me too, I bought 9th gen as I wanted the added option of a headphone jack. Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Keystage 61, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), iPad 9th gen, Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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