Was Vangelis the most well known user of the Yamaha CS80?

[Floyd Tatum]

K K,

 

I just noticed your handle is two K's, then there's another K in a circle below that.    That's three K's.   Dude, you're not......    😮   😃

[Finale]

Nope, KK just means Korg Kronos (but shhh... don't tell anyone). The other K is not mine, but generated by the site.

[Floyd Tatum]

26 minutes ago, K K said:

Nope, KK just means Korg Kronos (but shhh... don't tell anyone). The other K is not mine, but generated by the site.

Phew. 

[jverghese]

12 hours ago, K K said:

Not sure about the circuitry common to the GX-1 and CS-80, but certain preset sounds are indeed quite close. I remember also my late favorite uncle who bought an Electone Yamaha organ decades ago. It had exactly the same type of colored buttons as on the GX-1 or CS-80 and some of them were strings and brass sounds, which back then was quite unusual compared to most home organs you could buy.

I had a lowly Yamaha YC-10 combo organ as a kid, my first keyboard instrument. I sometimes hated it because it wasn't a Hammond. It was only after I had sold it that I realized it had the same super smooth 'paddle' controls as the mighty CS-80. 😀

[Floyd Tatum]

Readers of this thread (if they don't already know about it), would probably enjoy going over to the "Team Test: Cherry Audio GX-80" thread in the MPN GearLab • Interactive Reviews forum.  Lots of deep knowledge about CS-80 and GX-1 as well as Cherry Audio's new GX-80 virtual synth.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/tags/cherry audio gx-80/

 

My apologies for veering away from the Vangelis theme of this thread.   I will desist now.

[timwat]

Some of us older forum members were fortunate enough to have played a CS80 back in the day. In the mid 80's I gigged in two-kb player band that had one.

 

Because of division of labor, the CS80 wasn't in my gig rig - I had to 'settle' for a Prophet 10 sitting on top of a CP70B. Yes, the original dual-manual beast of a P10. Life was good. Nelson, the other KB player, used his CS80 (all of the keys belonged to him).

 

But I had the occasion to jam on it during rehearsals and such. I remember at first touch, it seemed exceedingly bright, wild, and a bit uncontrollable. Small changes to controls yielded enormous changes to the sound, and for a long time it seemed impossible to program anything close to what I wanted to hear. Every control seemed to have such a wide available range. Of course, I only fiddled with the main panel - the user programs (sliders protected under the upper LH hinged cover) were never touched by me. And they reminded me constantly that no matter what horrible dead end I went down programming the main panel, Nelson's user programs reminded me what was possible.

 

He told me he had been turned onto the CS80 by Gary Leuenberger, whom some may remember as the co-owner of St. Regis & Leuenberger in San Francisco, a big piano store (Steinway and Yamaha dealer) who went deep down the electronic keyboard route during the 80's. Apparently Leuenberger would give these dramatic CS80 demos that astounded (I never witnessed one). But Nelson was a good repeat customer of the store, witnessed the demos several times, and ended up buying all 3 of the boards in the rig from them.

 

Anyway, I remember the keys of the CS80 feeling different than anything else I'd played (or anything else Yamaha made during those days). I'm guessing it was their implementation of poly AT with the wooden keys. But the depth seemed a tad shorter than I initially expected. And while weighted and wood, it played very fast. The feel, once I got accustomed, was like fast hot butter. Their ribbon (with the textured "fur") didn't feel like the Kurzweil ribbon I'd eventually have on my K2500 or K2600. It was truly a unique sounding, unique feeling, unique programming, unique playing beast. Nothing like it before or after that I every played.

 

And playing it, to me, is half of the experience of this synth. I haven't yet downloaded or purchased the Cherry Audio version (although it looks like a lot of you have). The demos sound fantastic (Captain Obvious here). But like the "OK boomer" I am, even if I do take the plunge, in my memory it won't be nearly the same as actually playing the actual real McCoy.

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

26 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:

Readers of this thread (if they don't already know about it), would probably enjoy going over to the "Team Test: Cherry Audio GX-80" thread in the MPN GearLab • Interactive Reviews forum.  Lots of deep knowledge about CS-80 and GX-1 as well as Cherry Audio's new GX-80 virtual synth.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/tags/cherry audio gx-80/

 

My apologies for veering away from the Vangelis theme of this thread.   I will desist now.

Yes, the Cherry Audio thread is fantastic and full of information about Yamaha's groundbreaking early synths. Thanks Dr. Mike, Jerrythek and many others!!!!!

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, timwat said:

Some of us older forum members were fortunate enough to have played a CS80 back in the day. In the mid 80's I gigged in two-kb player band that had one.

 

Because of division of labor, the CS80 wasn't in my gig rig - I had to 'settle' for a Prophet 10 sitting on top of a CP70B. Yes, the original dual-manual beast of a P10. Life was good. Nelson, the other KB player, used his CS80 (all of the keys belonged to him).

 

But I had the occasion to jam on it during rehearsals and such. I remember at first touch, it seemed exceedingly bright, wild, and a bit uncontrollable. Small changes to controls yielded enormous changes to the sound, and for a long time it seemed impossible to program anything close to what I wanted to hear. Every control seemed to have such a wide available range. Of course, I only fiddled with the main panel - the user programs (sliders protected under the upper LH hinged cover) were never touched by me. And they reminded me constantly that no matter what horrible dead end I went down programming the main panel, Nelson's user programs reminded me what was possible.

 

He told me he had been turned onto the CS80 by Gary Leuenberger, whom some may remember as the co-owner of St. Regis & Leuenberger in San Francisco, a big piano store (Steinway and Yamaha dealer) who went deep down the electronic keyboard route during the 80's. Apparently Leuenberger would give these dramatic CS80 demos that astounded (I never witnessed one). But Nelson was a good repeat customer of the store, witnessed the demos several times, and ended up buying all 3 of the boards in the rig from them.

 

Anyway, I remember the keys of the CS80 feeling different than anything else I'd played (or anything else Yamaha made during those days). I'm guessing it was their implementation of poly AT with the wooden keys. But the depth seemed a tad shorter than I initially expected. And while weighted and wood, it played very fast. The feel, once I got accustomed, was like fast hot butter. Their ribbon (with the textured "fur") didn't feel like the Kurzweil ribbon I'd eventually have on my K2500 or K2600. It was truly a unique sounding, unique feeling, unique programming, unique playing beast. Nothing like it before or after that I every played.

 

And playing it, to me, is half of the experience of this synth. I haven't yet downloaded or purchased the Cherry Audio version (although it looks like a lot of you have). The demos sound fantastic (Captain Obvious here). But like the "OK boomer" I am, even if I do take the plunge, in my memory it won't be nearly the same as actually playing the actual real McCoy.

 

 

Yep, I even bought the Cherry Hill plugin and I'm not much on keys but I thought it might sound amazing on my Fishman Triple Play equipped guitar. 

The Cherry Hill thread has me looking at Yamaha Electone "organs" is see in the thrift stores with different eyes. Yamaha was incredibly ahead of their time!

[Floyd Tatum]

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

 The Cherry Hill thread has me looking at Yamaha Electone "organs" is see in the thrift stores with different eyes. Yamaha was incredibly ahead of their time!

You probably won't find very much that's exciting about most used Electones.  Like most big manufacturers, Yamaha has to sell a lot of drek to make money.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.  Anything that gets people on a limited budget into music is a good thing, IMHO.    But occasionally they reach for the stars with a super-project like GX-1.

Kind of like the Ford Motor company, which sold a lot of Pintos, Escapes, Cortinas, etc.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.   But then occasionally they do something extra-impressive like build F1-winning race cars.   GX-1 is one of those super-projects, even though it had the Electone badge.

 

It's human nature to accept necessary burdens, but participate in projects that excel, when possible.  Makes life worth living, and all that crap.  😃

 

Oops, I forgot to desist.

 

[Tusker]

On 11/29/2022 at 1:04 PM, Floyd Tatum said:

You probably won't find very much that's exciting about most used Electones.  Like most big manufacturers, Yamaha has to sell a lot of drek to make money.  Not that there's anything wrong with that.  Anything that gets people on a limited budget into music is a good thing, IMHO.    But occasionally they reach for the stars with a super-project like GX-1.

 

My father purchased a "regular" Electone for the family in 1976 and along with it came some classes, so we ended up at the Yamaha music school in Singapore on Saturdays. Obviously when the world electone championship contests took place they wanted all the students to hear the cream of the local crop. These might have been semifinals or regionals but the performance was important enough to be done on a GX1 which had been flown in from Tokyo and which sat in a roped off area for what seemed like several weeks of anticipation. From beyond the ropes, we could see that the knobs and sliders looked the same as our regular organs but there were more of them and of course the case looked like a spaceship. I didn't know then that the GX-1 had synthesizer circuits on the inside (envelopes, lfos, dynamic filters, ring mod, etc.) which were not present on the "regular" electones we were studying on. We had been told it was different and when we finally heard it the difference was obvious. What I remember most from the concert is a huge volume and sweetness of sound. A remarkable instrument.

 

Here's an example of the GX1 Electone being played as an organ ...

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

Who's Vangelis?

[CyberGene]

3 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Who's Vangelis?

If you're not joking, I'm really interested how come a musician anywhere in the world hasn't at least heard the name Vangelis. I don't expect that everybody knows his music but even if you have listened to radio or watched TV, the name Vangelis should have eventually came up and you'll know that it's a musician's name.

 

Which is why I believe you're pretending 😉

[CEB]

Vangelis?,  Was he the keyboard player in Bon Jovi?

[Delaware Dave]

34 minutes ago, CEB said:

Vangelis?,  Was he the keyboard player in Bon Jovi?

Oh, THAT Vangelis ....

[Bill H.]

Just for fun I've been asking people this morning if they know who Vangelis is. 

 

So far we're 0 for 5. 

 

But they all know who Paul McCartney is. So based on my very limited poll, I'd say that Vangelis is not the most well known user of the CS80. 

[Floyd Tatum]

6 hours ago, Tusker said:

 I didn't know then that the GX-1 had synthesizer circuits on the inside (envelopes, lfos, dynamic filters, ring mod, etc.) which were not present on the "regular" electones we were studying on. We had been told it was different and when we finally heard it the difference was obvious. What I remember most from the concert is a huge volume and sweetness of sound. A remarkable instrument.

What a great story!   I've never seen one, only heard it on records, and there's a Youtube vid Keith Emerson playing Fanfare for the Common Man on it.   I doubt I'll ever get to play one, but I can dream.   Maybe Behringer will make a copy that only costs $300.   You never know....  🤞🤞  😎

[timwat]

I'm willing to bet Evangelos Papathanassiou is primarily known to a certain niche audience of a particular age.

 

This forum happens to skew decidedly towards older keyboard players. Younger guitar players and drummers, for example, may be completely unaware of both Vangelis AND his work. There's a whole generation of folks who have never seen Blade Runner or Chariots of Fire.

 

Here on this forum (and with other keyboard players of a certain vintage), his work is revered. Out "there", I wouldn't be surprised if he's completely unknown...as Bill H.'s anecdotal polling suggests.

[Floyd Tatum]

Factoid:  (I didn't know this until just now from Tusker, indirectly):  The GX-1 was first released under the name GX-707, but Yamaha quickly changed it 'cause it sounded too much like Boeing 707.    GX-1 sounds more impressive, and makes more sense, since it's the first of its kind....

BTW, I keep reading that no one knows exactly how many were made.   Wouldn't Yamaha have records of that?

[Mills Dude]

1 hour ago, Bill H. said:

Just for fun I've been asking people this morning if they know who Vangelis is. 

 

So far we're 0 for 5. 

 

But they all know who Paul McCartney is. So based on my very limited poll, I'd say that Vangelis is not the most well known user of the CS80. 

I guess some old farts, like me, would remember the Chariots of Fire soundtrack.  The theme was actually a hit and got pretty big radio airplay in the day in addition to winning the Oscar.  Blade Runner is a bit more obscure but still has a ton of recognition, perhaps more than CoF today.  When's the last time anybody watched CoF?

 

Being a prog head, my favorite user of the CS80 is Eddie Jobson. The UK records and his solo record, Zinc, are a tour-de-force.

 

Maybe more apt on this forum, who's better known, Jobson or Vangelis?  Both are/were reasonably obscure except for keyboard nuts like us.

[Tusker]

I'd suggest that it's not just a matter of demographics. I think people are reading the OP's question at least two different ways.

 

1) The first is the most literal and direct answer to the question. It focuses on the person and that person's fame and whether that person played the CS80 at all.

2) The second involves more interpretation. It asks if the person was famous for playing the instrument. This would exclude people like Princess Diana who may be famous for reasons other than playing the instrument. It would also exclude casual users the same way that Sir Paul would be happy to be excluded from a "famous saxophone players" list, despite playing saxophones on "Coming Up."

 

You can probably tell by the number of words used, that I use the more interpretive approach? It's all good really... 👍

 

 

 

 

[timwat]

So Princess Diana played CS80?

[Tusker]

2 minutes ago, timwat said:

So Princess Diana played CS80?

 

We may never know, which is my point. 👍

[Tusker]

19 minutes ago, Mills Dude said:

Being a prog head, my favorite user of the CS80 is Eddie Jobson. The UK records and his solo record, Zinc, are a tour-de-force.

 

One of the side benefits to me, of Cherry Audio's rather brilliant GX-80 is that I have had occasion to revisit the Green Album. Phenomenal music. 👍

[mate stubb]

3 hours ago, Bill H. said:

Just for fun I've been asking people this morning if they know who Vangelis is. 

 

So far we're 0 for 5. 

 

But they all know who Paul McCartney is. So based on my very limited poll, I'd say that Vangelis is not the most well known user of the CS80. 

 

Most well known user of the CS-80 - Sir Paul or Stevie

User most well known for the CS-80 - Vangelis

[David Emm]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:12 PM, Floyd Tatum said:

It's amusing to me how much the CS-80 looks like a giant accordian....

  

I'd pay $20 to see you wearing it around your neck like one. No, $40!

[jerrythek]

On 11/29/2022 at 11:24 AM, timwat said:

Some of us older forum members were fortunate enough to have played a CS80 back in the day. In the mid 80's I gigged in two-kb player band that had one.

 

<snip>

 

Anyway, I remember the keys of the CS80 feeling different than anything else I'd played (or anything else Yamaha made during those days). I'm guessing it was their implementation of poly AT with the wooden keys. But the depth seemed a tad shorter than I initially expected. And while weighted and wood, it played very fast. The feel, once I got accustomed, was like fast hot butter. Their ribbon (with the textured "fur") didn't feel like the Kurzweil ribbon I'd eventually have on my K2500 or K2600. It was truly a unique sounding, unique feeling, unique programming, unique playing beast. Nothing like it before or after that I every played.

 

And playing it, to me, is half of the experience of this synth. I haven't yet downloaded or purchased the Cherry Audio version (although it looks like a lot of you have). The demos sound fantastic (Captain Obvious here). But like the "OK boomer" I am, even if I do take the plunge, in my memory it won't be nearly the same as actually playing the actual real McCoy.

 

 

 

I don't doubt that for a second. I too can imagine (not having played one) that it was/is a very tactile instrument, and the controls are just begging to be manipulated in real time. I was speaking to Steve Porcaro the other day (sorry to seem to be name-dropping) and he was telling me just that. He loved the feel and interactivity of his. I wish I had the chance...

[jerrythek]

4 hours ago, Floyd Tatum said:

Factoid:  (I didn't know this until just now from Tusker, indirectly):  The GX-1 was first released under the name GX-707, but Yamaha quickly changed it 'cause it sounded too much like Boeing 707.    GX-1 sounds more impressive, and makes more sense, since it's the first of its kind....

BTW, I keep reading that no one knows exactly how many were made.   Wouldn't Yamaha have records of that?

I'm not sure that's right... this synth history from Yamaha themselves say that GX-707 was a prototype name, and it was never released as such.

 

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/contents/music_production/synth_40th/history/chapter01/index.html

 

????

 

 

[jerrythek]

That's a great clip, of a great player. I posted this clip in the review thread, a bit (make that a LOT) more corny:

clonk

 

 

10 hours ago, Tusker said:

 

My father purchased a "regular" Electone for the family in 1976 and along with it came some classes, so we ended up at the Yamaha music school in Singapore on Saturdays. Obviously when the world electone championship contests took place they wanted all the students to hear the cream of the local crop. These might have been semifinals or regionals but the performance was important enough to be done on a GX1 which had been flown in from Tokyo and which sat in a roped off area for what seemed like several weeks of anticipation. From beyond the ropes, we could see that the knobs and sliders looked the same as our regular organs but there were more of them and of course the case looked like a spaceship. I didn't know then that the GX-1 had synthesizer circuits on the inside (envelopes, lfos, dynamic filters, ring mod, etc.) which were not present on the "regular" electones we were studying on. We had been told it was different and when we finally heard it the difference was obvious. What I remember most from the concert is a huge volume and sweetness of sound. A remarkable instrument.

 

Here's an example of the GX1 Electone being played as an organ ...

 

 

 

[Tusker]

14 hours ago, jerrythek said:

I posted this clip in the review thread, a bit (make that a LOT) more corny:

clonk

 

Love that clip, because it really gives you a sense of scale of the beast, like climbing into a cockpit. Thanks Jerry!!

 

To complete some of the connections between GX/CS and the Electone line, IIRC the GX1 was presented to the Yamaha School in Singapore as the GX1, despite Bobby Lyle's 1974 Japanese CD having the GX707 title ...

 

By about 1977-1978, the silver beast for Electone competitions was no longer the GX1. It had been replaced by the EX1, which added Electone features (drawbar flutes, percussion, etc.). The analog synth engines were still there but only in the form of presets of the GX1/CS80. You lost the synth control over envelopes and oscillator waveforms. The GX1/CS80 presets are quite static as you know, so you ended up with very broad brushstrokes of control such as the expression pedal and drawbars (of course), side to side movement on the solo manual, aftertouch, and the knee controller. Most of these control systems affect all notes in a manual. So you had more sources of sound as an organist, and less control of sound as a synthesist.

 

The school was freer with this instrument, allowing instructors to provide regular demonstration concerts on it. That is how (from my point of view) the professional synth and Electone efforts of Yamaha began to diverge again, after converging in the flagship GX1.

 

 

[jerrythek]

Great info, Tusker!