Nords, they're everywhere. Should they be?

[Adan]

51 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

That’s funny. I found Nord Piano 5 having one of the worst touch-sound mapping, feeling not like a piano at all and I would go as far as to say I can’t think of a worse digital piano in that regard, even worse than Casio entry-level pianos. Apparently it’s a matter of taste.  I love their samples when listening to demos though. But I can’t connect to the sound as a player. 

finger to ear shouldn't be only a matter of taste.  there's physical, objective aspects to it that make some keyboards more sensitive to touch variations.  That said, there is also a subjective component in how you hear the sound changing according to your touch and whether that particular mapping is pleasing to your ear.  But I'd stand by my statement that the NP does the objective part of it at a very high level.

 

It's worth clarifying that I'm comparing the NP with other 73's.  I needed a 73 and so that was the universe I was considering.  If and 88 worked for me, I'd probably own a Yamaha CP or YC.

[CraigT]

For cover band duty I went from a backbreaking Motif XS 88 to the Nord Stage 3 Compact.  It has made a world of difference for going to practice and gigs.  I looked at the Montage 88 but just as heavy as the Motif and I wasn’t blown away by the pianos.  Everything is a compromise but the Stage is the Goldilocks for my situation.  Also, at home I can use the Motif as a weighted controller and the pianos can be wonderfully expressive now that Nord fixed the velocity mapping.  Bought well before the price hikes though.

[Moonglow]

 

I have an original Stage 88 and still love it. The large version of the Bright Grand and the organ (through a Ventilator) beats anything I’m currently using in those categories. Although the A1 in the Stage 3 is substantially more capable and better sounding (albeit more complicated) than the original synth section, I’ve always been able to develop any type of 80’s patch I’ve needed with it. I also like the action in the original Stage 88. I find it to be a very good "compromise" action. Coupled with my Kronos 2 61, it’s a versatile, relatively lightweight, rig.

 

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, bjosko said:

if they could simplify the connection so we could use an iPad or tablet to transfer and arrange sound, programs and samples, it would be a big plus. The only thing I need my old MacBook for is when I am doing this.

You can use a tablet, like a Surface Pro.

 

I've wondered, with all the Apple rules/restrictions that apply to iOS apps, whether it's even possible to do things like sample transfer to Nord hardware from an iPad, or other parameter manipulation. Although it's eased somewhat over the years, Apple has long had tight control over what could or could not be done over USB (e.g. originally, you could not connect a USB keyboard, mouse, or SSD drive to an iPad).

 

On 11/23/2022 at 2:17 AM, hrestov said:

after a couple of year I turn to Yamaha cp73, that has a piano sound that for me is better. Good also in mono. The Rhodes are oneslty far better than nord’s. When I have to use hammond I use iPad. 
So for me Nord is not too good, especially for piano and Rhodes sounds. 

 

I am generally happy with the sounds of my YC73, but the only piano I really like in mono is the S700. The CFX in particular does not sound good in mono to me... there's a range of high-ish keys that bother me.

 

On 11/23/2022 at 12:05 AM, zephonic said:

On 11/22/2022 at 8:38 PM, Paul Vnuk Jr. said:

wondering if its truly worth it to upgrade from our Yamaha MOXF8 to a Nord Piano or Nord Stage. I know the quality is solid, but they are pretty expensive when most of our players just want piano, electric piano and occasional organ sounds with 88 great feeling keys.

 

I would think a more logical replacement would be the Yamaha MODX8?

 

 

I don't think MODX8 gives you the 88 great feeling keys. At least no better than the MOXF8, and for some reason, based on the one I played, I felt even a step down, despite both being GHS. But they did add some new pianos, EPs, and organs. Still not as strong there as the YC88, I'd say, if you wanted to stay with Yamaha, and the YC88 has the better action besides. But CP88 vs Nord Piano, or YC88 vs Nord Stage, are thinsg you could argue either way in a Nord vs. Yamaha matchup.

 

On 11/23/2022 at 4:11 AM, hrestov said:

The White Grand, the last piano, is arrived in summer 2019. The last Rhodes is 2016.  So I think you heard the last acoustic and electric piano of nord. 

 

 The Rhodes were updated December of 2018. Same models, but larger sample sets and other improvements.

 

13 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

When the first Electro came out, the other manufacturers’ idea of an electric piano sound was still the horrendous DX7 FM sound. Nord was the first to have good and realistic Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds.

 

While I think Nord may have been uniquely specifically marketed that way (essentially an electro-acoustic keyboard instrument emulator), there were other boards with good Rhodes/Wurli. I know I'm not the only one with fond memories of Yamaha's Herbie Roadz sound on the S80/S30, at least.

 

8 hours ago, jejefunkyman said:

Finally someone who shares my view on the horrendous DX7 FM {EP} sound 🤣

 

I think there are more of us than you might expect. ;-)

 

[bjosko]

I don’t want to try to quote you AnotherScott, it used to be a mess from my IPad….

But some sort of easy transfer should at least be possible. Just look how Crumar are doing it. Here you might need a computer to transfer your sounds over on an USB drive, but then you can reach your unit through a built in Web interface and transfer the files.

Something like that would be a great improvement.

 I am just thinking about musicians that are traveling in to a rental Nord, or have more than one unit. It would make life so much easier if you could bring your setup with you on a thumb drive and transfer the ready to go setup from the USB drive and your phone. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, bjosko said:

some sort of easy transfer should at least be possible. Just look how Crumar are doing it.

 

They do it via wifi, but existing Nords don't have wifi in them.

[bjosko]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

They do it via wifi, but existing Nords don't have wifi in them.

I’m know, this was for future products. I think it is a clever and technically cheap way to solve the restriction Apple make with connectivity.  
But of course I will prefer a more solid USB connection if possible.

[CyberGene]

Devices that use WiFi for configuration (I have a dashcam and a Fuji mirrorless camera that are like that) are bad IMO. They require that you disconnect your phone/tablet from your WiFi and lose connectivity and connect to the device. That’s so 2010-s. Nowadays there’s Bluetooth LE that’s made for these purposes.

[stoken6]

12 hours ago, Moonglow said:

I also like the action in the original Stage 88. I find it to be a very good "compromise" action. Coupled with my Kronos 2 61, it’s a versatile, relatively lightweight, rig

That's a lovely rig - and how cool does it look on your Invisible stand!

 

Cheers, Mike.

[TJ Cornish]

I’ve ranted about this before - my visceral dislike of “Team Red” comes from the overly-affected “me-too” mindset of so many churches that have to have the en vogue gear in all the videos - Shure SM-7b mics, and the Nord. A non-trivial number of these church keys musicians - after getting the usually cash-poor church to fork over $5K for the Nord, then proceed to take a USB out into MainStage and use the Nord as the world’s most expensive, poorly-suited MIDI controller for the world’s least expensive, poorly-suited MIDI tone generator.

 

I work with a lot of student musicians. 10% of the people are functional in MainStage - they can put together a show file that doesn’t crash, sounds good, and does the job.  The other 90% buy something like Sunday Keys and use it on under-powered laptops that cause latency, stuttering, and other misery that doesn’t work in a live scenario. If one of them showed up with a Nord and was willing to learn and use the internal sounds - great; other boards like the Yamaha YC series do the same thing for a lot less money.

 

 

[niacin]

I could buy a Nord Stage Compact 73 for $6k Australian, or for the same money I could buy a Hammond SKpro 61 AND a Korg Vox Continental 73.  YMMV.

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

the en vogue gear in all the videos - Shure SM-7b mics

True dat. And super-close for that proximity-effect "Movie trailer voice-over in Dolby THX" sound.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[TJ Cornish]

5 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

True dat. And super-close for that proximity-effect "Movie trailer voice-over in Dolby THX" sound.

 

Cheers, Mike.

There’s no better way to engage with your audience than singing into a mic the size of a roll of paper towels that hides 60% of your face.

[analogika]

On 11/22/2022 at 9:03 PM, 16251 said:

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought the idea of Nord was to sell a product that you can upgrade the sounds and spend less by not having to upgrade as much, thus the increased price. If this is the case then why are so many people always upgrading?

i bought my Electro 2 in 2014 and still own it. I bought a Stage 2 in 2014 and promised myself I’d upgrade immediately when they brought out a model with Drawbars. 
 

which I did. 
 

Been on the Stage 3 since 2017, no reason to upgrade. And no model to upgrade to 

[zephonic]

22 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I don't think MODX8 gives you the 88 great feeling keys.

 

But the Nords do?

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, zephonic said:

 

But the Nords do?

 

It's all relative... but if the starting point for comparison is the MOXF8, then I'd say the Nord 88s do give you much better feeling actions than the MODX8 (whereas the MODX8 is no step up at all, and maybe even a step down, as I said).

 

This brings up another point of interest, though... he also wants it for some organ use, and even as hammer action boards go (inherently not great for organ), anything that feels better than a Nord 88 for piano (i.e. the Stage 3) would likely feel worse than the Nord 88 for organ (i.e. the YC88). But if the organ use is not very significant, that's probably not much of a concern.

[nadroj]

I’ve had an Electro 4 since 2014. It’s more limited than even the first £400 digital piano I bought when I was 15. 
 

But if I’ve got a gig or a session, it’s always my first choice. I’ve taken it on gigs where my MODX would have been a better choice because I just love playing it. 8 years later it’s still the only keyboard I take out on all of my gigs. 
 

Part of that is because I’m dirt poor and can’t afford to upgrade in this economy, and if I were to upgrade I’d probably go for another brand…

 

…But I love it. Frustrating in many regards, but my favourite keyboard I’ve ever owned. 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

3 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

 But finally I sold it for $50 more then I paid for it to a pastor guy up by Fresno who wanted it for his church. Perfect match made in heaven.

 

 

 

Maybe it was for an "Order of Flagellants" who needed it as an "Instrument of Penance".

 

You have to experience Hell before Divinity.

 

So you flagellate with the Nord then settle on a Yammy YC or Korg monster workstation or the next big thing.

 

Then you pass on the Nord on craigslist listed as "only ever used in worship".

 

I received an ex-worship keyboard recently and now realise most ex-worship board have a totally wornout and unusable keybed. Overused by dozens or hundreds of parishners and fly-ins. 

 

 

It was cheap anyway as it was said a few keys werent working (i naturally thought needing cleaning not pivot points wornout keys collapsing) but to the vendors credit he wasnt told by his church the keybed was totally stuffed till we played it so he gifted it to me even after I offered to pay him. Im regretting taking it now hee hee.

 

I think gigged boards are a safer bet as there is generally only one player who generally takes more care as its his own not the churches kicking board.

 

 

 

 

[analogika]

I flagellated with a Kronos for a year or two. 

 

Since then, it's been Stage 3 for everything I can get away with, and MainStage for the rest. 

[1203]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:02 PM, AnotherScott said:

 

 

 

I am generally happy with the sounds of my YC73, but the only piano I really like in mono is the S700. The CFX in particular does not sound good in mono to me... there's a range of high-ish keys that bother me.

 

Did you try the „right output trick“ with the CFX piano? If i go mono, i take only the right output (not the left „mono“!) with my YC73 and the CFX sounds very good for my ears.

 

The Rhodes (especially the 78Rd) in the YC/CP‘s are better than all the Nord Rhodes, at least for my taste… and i love my Nord Stage and my Nord Electro… 

[jazzpiano88]

On 11/24/2022 at 1:44 PM, Moonglow said:

 

I have an original Stage 88 and still love it. The large version of the Bright Grand and the organ (through a Ventilator) beats anything I’m currently using in those categories. Although the A1 in the Stage 3 is substantially more capable and better sounding (albeit more complicated) than the original synth section, I’ve always been able to develop any type of 80’s patch I’ve needed with it. I also like the action in the original Stage 88. I find it to be a very good "compromise" action. Coupled with my Kronos 2 61, it’s a versatile, relatively lightweight, rig.

 

 

I've never been able to make any sense out of the Nord whenever I encountered one.  I might as well be in the cockpit of a LearJet.

I do like Scott Kinsey's sounds, who appears to be using Nords.

 

Usually a manufacturer that commands a price premium has a performance point that the competitors can't match.  So it doesn't make any sense for Nord unless there is some Jobsian-like reality distortion field in effect.   People have mentioned the religious institution effect which could be similar to Job's.

 

OT: The above picture really hit home that good packaging designers are clearly left out of the picture.  Admittedly the Nord is semi-acceptable with the brand and model at opposite ends, unlike the Korg atrocity.

 

 

[PianoMan51]

Yes to the ‘right output trick’ in my CP4 Stereo CFX patch.  Sounds much better than any of the Mono Piano patches. You still get all the overtones from the left hand, but with less bass response, which is almost always a good thing.

[AnotherScott]

13 hours ago, 1203 said:

Did you try the „right output trick“ with the CFX piano? If i go mono, i take only the right output (not the left „mono“!) with my YC73 and the CFX sounds very good for my ears.

 

I don't remember whether I tried that, I'll try to remember to do that when I'm back at that board.

 

13 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

I've never been able to make any sense out of the Nord whenever I encountered one.  I might as well be in the cockpit of a LearJet.

 

I have a feeling that the models you've encountered have been Nord Stages, about which I said earlier, "It's one of the easiest to use if you have prior experience, but almost unusable if you don't" (for reasons explained in the second half of that full post). Nord Piano and Electro models are more straight-forward, though older ones are still simpler than newer ones. It's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. With early Electro models, people complained that you couldn't split and layer. They added split and layer to more recent models, which necessarily adds more controls/complication, and then you see people wishing that the newer models were as simple as the older  ones...

[Docbop]

16 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

I've never been able to make any sense out of the Nord whenever I encountered one.  I might as well be in the cockpit of a LearJet.

I do like Scott Kinsey's sounds, who appears to be using Nords.

 

 

That's how I felt about my Kronos 88  menu dives to do even simple things.   I got a Nord Stage 3 and didn't take long to see how its in sections, and all the knobs and buttons keep me from menu to diving.  I find that after a few minutes in the Nord I could do way more than I could with the Kronos.  

 

Yes Scott Kensey is great and uses Nords.  

[DJkeys]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

 

That's how I felt about my Kronos 88  menu dives to do even simple things.   I got a Nord Stage 3 and didn't take long to see how its in sections, and all the knobs and buttons keep me from menu to diving.  I find that after a few minutes in the Nord I could do way more than I could with the Kronos.  

 

Yes Scott Kensey is great and uses Nords.  

I think this is the case, Nord keyboards have an architecture that is completely different from most other boards by Korg, Roland, Yamaha, etc.  But, once you understand that architecture, they are a simple pleasure to operate.

 

-dj

[funkyhammond]

I loved the NE2, NE3 and C1. Then they started making the springs much stiffer in later models, which really annoyed me (a little stiffer would have been okay). And the NE line eventually became more sophisticated and expensive.

 

I haven't bought a Nord since then but I still use my C1 as a good dual manual organ controller paired with Voce Midi Drawbars when I need physical drawbars. The action is perfect, it sends high trigger, and the MIDI implementation is great for organ. 

 

I was a big fan of Nords in those early years but now they are just another option and a very expensive one.

(EDIT: I should add, though, that they have always been very well built and designed and in that regard they are not "just" another option.)

 

For me, the Yamaha YC has huge potential. If Yamaha keeps improving the organ and rotary sim (already quite good), adds more clav variations, and comes out with a more solid-feeling waterfall keyboard with high trigger for organ(!), I will very likely buy it. Even better if they also make a SW 73 version.

[Docbop]

2 minutes ago, DJKeys said:

I think this is the case, Nord keyboards have an architecture that is completely different from most other boards by Korg, Roland, Yamaha, etc.  But, once you understand that architecture, they are a simple pleasure to operate.

 

-dj

 

I think it's a complement to Nord in how Yamaha current YC and CP are influenced by the Nord CP and Stage interface.

[AnotherScott]

1 minute ago, Docbop said:

That's how I felt about my Kronos 88  menu dives to do even simple things.   I got a Nord Stage 3 and didn't take long to see how its in sections, and all the knobs and buttons keep me from menu to diving.  I find that after a few minutes in the Nord I could do way more than I could with the Kronos.  

 

Yes... whether or not you see a board as easy to use can also depend both on what it is you're trying to do, and what you're comparing it to.

 

On 11/25/2022 at 4:05 AM, TJ Cornish said:

fork over $5K for the Nord, then proceed to take a USB out into MainStage and use the Nord as the world’s most expensive, poorly-suited MIDI controller

 

At $5k, you're talking about a Stage, and while  I agree it makes for a very expensive controller, I don't think it's necessarily poorly suited. All that knobiness sends MIDI CCs. Picking up again from my earlier post, where else do you get a controller with dedicated drawbar controls that look and feel like drawbars, separate synth controls that are labeled and logically laid out for the most common synth functions, etc.

 

On 11/25/2022 at 4:05 AM, TJ Cornish said:

 If one of them showed up with a Nord and was willing to learn and use the internal sounds - great; other boards like the Yamaha YC series do the same thing for a lot less money.

 

The YC has only become a similar option somewhat recently. For many "Nord years," it didn't exist, and meanwhile Nord has built up a solid reputation in that market which may not be so easy to displace. People see "that's what people are using," and so, with no further research required, they can just buy that and feel safe that they've got something that will do the job. They may not even know about the YC, or want to take the "gamble." (And there are certainly still things the Stage does that the YC does not, like full built-in VA synth and custom sample loading, which could come into play for some.)

[Shamanzarek]

Even with the improvements in the Stage 3 Nord still isn't very flexible when it comes to splits and layers. Number of splits has been increased but split points are fixed, not user programmable. Layers are slightly improved but still fairly limited. For splits or layers I mostly want to use Sample section sounds. You are allowed to use two Samples and that's it. If I want a bass sound on the left and a Sample layer or split on the right it can't be done unless an Organ or Piano section sound will do the job.

 

The Kurzweil PC2 I had from 2004 and even the old Casio WK3800 I still use both do splits/layers much better. The Kurzweil allowed several splits and layers with little limitation. The Casio WK is more limited but will let you split the keyboard anywhere and layer both sides of the split with any combination of Samples or Organ section sounds. Of course the Casio doesn't sound quite as good as a Nord or Kurzweil and has a few minor limitations but was only $300 new. I think if Casio made some improvements to the WK concept they could rival or outdo Nord if they were willing to put out a keyboard in the $1500-2000 range.

[AnotherScott]

Kurzweil and Nord have almost diametrically opposed philosophies. Kurzweil is about being able to do almost anything you can imagine; Nord is about letting you do only the most common things, but do them as easily as possible.

 

But I have wished that Nord would let you load sample library sounds into the piano section, which would double the number of "sample section" sounds you include in your splits/layers, without really adding any complication to the operations.