Moog Model D back in production

[lsj]

originally gigged with an original minimoog.  today I am more than satisfied with my Poly D.

[The Real MC]

22 hours ago, BadLife said:

Al Coda I guess I said it wrong.  What I would like to know is what the Mini Moog is capable of?  Shamanzarek indicated that it doesn't have enough keys or oscillators to play the "Lucky Man" solo.  That was what I meant for $4000 what can it do.  Since I play guitar I can get one Gibson for $4000 or 10 Epiphone's the Epiphone's can do everything the Gibson can with perhaps a slight reduction in sound quality (which can be very subjective) .  Just would like to here the value use case for one of these.  I get that it is a quality reproduction of a rare vintage instrument, but what other use case is there for it?  I can see that it might just make someone happy just to own it, but is there more to it that that? 

I think it's fair to say that in my 35+ years of gigging there are some things that people just can't understand.

• Guitar players pay $4000 and higher for a Gibson Les Paul sunburst with figured top, an instrument with approximately $500 worth of raw materials,
• $$$$ for a good tube Marshall amp with approximately $800 of raw materials,
• $$$ for pedals,
• And then balk at paying $5000 for a Minimoog.
• In the hands of an experienced player, playing lead lines on a Minimoog is one of the few instruments that can compete tone wise with a good guitar player.  
• Minimoogs have been a good synth for playing harmony lines with a guitar.
• Minimoogs have been the keyboard players' equivalent of a $4000+ Les Paul.
• Minimoogs can produce very good bass lines.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce screaming synthesizer lead tones with multiple VCOs producing a wonderful animation.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce bass drones with multiple VCOs that can shake a venue.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate traditional sounds like trumpet, flute, sax, oboe, strings, bells, drums, percussion, etc.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• As long as you hold the key down, Minimoogs will sustain a note forever.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate trademark sounds that guitar/bass players have been chasing such as that opening grinding rezz in "Tom Sawyer".  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs have expressive tools like long glide processing and a 3rd VCO in LFO mode that can pull off modulations other than vibrato.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• I have successfully duplicated bodily noises such as heartbeats, belches, farts, etc on a Minimoog.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs possess a filter with wonderful resonance that happens to be more effective than competing synths.
• Minimoog have a certain GROWL that I've heard on only a handful of synths.
• You can do A LOT with a Minimoog if you apply your brain to it.  It won't do EVERYTHING, but these are examples of sounds that the Minimoog just happens to do better than most synths.  After 35+ years of monkeying with synths, I certainly have tried.
• I have played/heard many plugins, soft synths, hardware copies of Minimoogs that fall short of the real thing.
• A Les Paul is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• A Minimoog is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• Many guitar players are a conservative lot who can't comprehend any electronic device more complex than the tone controls on their guitar, their amp, and their pedals.  No you don't need a PhD to operate a Minimoog but too many players don't put the work into learning a foreign instrument.  Concepts like subtractive synthesis, cross modulation, audio domain FM synthesis, with terms like modulation mix, modifiers, etc are foreign to the guitar player who first encounters a Minimoog and seldom get anything more sophisticated than simple lead and bass sounds.  I do know guitar players who "get it" and are competent around a Minimoog but they are few and far between.
  
  Yes, there is more to that.

[Mr -G-]

1 hour ago, The Real MC said:

As long as you hold the key down, Minimoogs will sustain a note forever.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?

Carlos Santana can do that. 😀

[BadLife]

1 hour ago, The Real MC said:

I think it's fair to say that in my 35+ years of gigging there are some things that people just can't understand.

• Guitar players pay $4000 and higher for a Gibson Les Paul sunburst with figured top, an instrument with approximately $500 worth of raw materials,
• $$$$ for a good tube Marshall amp with approximately $800 of raw materials,
• $$$ for pedals,
• And then balk at paying $5000 for a Minimoog.
• In the hands of an experienced player, playing lead lines on a Minimoog is one of the few instruments that can compete tone wise with a good guitar player.  
• Minimoogs have been a good synth for playing harmony lines with a guitar.
• Minimoogs have been the keyboard players' equivalent of a $4000+ Les Paul.
• Minimoogs can produce very good bass lines.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce screaming synthesizer lead tones with multiple VCOs producing a wonderful animation.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce bass drones with multiple VCOs that can shake a venue.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate traditional sounds like trumpet, flute, sax, oboe, strings, bells, drums, percussion, etc.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• As long as you hold the key down, Minimoogs will sustain a note forever.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate trademark sounds that guitar/bass players have been chasing such as that opening grinding rezz in "Tom Sawyer".  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs have expressive tools like long glide processing and a 3rd VCO in LFO mode that can pull off modulations other than vibrato.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• I have successfully duplicated bodily noises such as heartbeats, belches, farts, etc on a Minimoog.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs possess a filter with wonderful resonance that happens to be more effective than competing synths.
• Minimoog have a certain GROWL that I've heard on only a handful of synths.
• You can do A LOT with a Minimoog if you apply your brain to it.  It won't do EVERYTHING, but these are examples of sounds that the Minimoog just happens to do better than most synths.  After 35+ years of monkeying with synths, I certainly have tried.
• I have played/heard many plugins, soft synths, hardware copies of Minimoogs that fall short of the real thing.
• A Les Paul is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• A Minimoog is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• Many guitar players are a conservative lot who can't comprehend any electronic device more complex than the tone controls on their guitar, their amp, and their pedals.  No you don't need a PhD to operate a Minimoog but too many players don't put the work into learning a foreign instrument.  Concepts like subtractive synthesis, cross modulation, audio domain FM synthesis, with terms like modulation mix, modifiers, etc are foreign to the guitar player who first encounters a Minimoog and seldom get anything more sophisticated than simple lead and bass sounds.  I do know guitar players who "get it" and are competent around a Minimoog but they are few and far between.
  
  Yes, there is more to that.

 

Ha ha I get all that and yes a guitar can only do all those things with effects.  Not sure if that counts.  Of course if we use a guitar synthesizer. Well my Gibson les  Paul can only make guitar sounds.

[felis]

I'd love to get one, but it would be purely nostalgia for me. 

There was an original mini at the university back in the dark ages.

Not sure if it's just foggy memory, but I know I was mesmerized by the sound at the time.

Not really possible to justify it at my age, and with my situation.

I'm glad it's around for other people though.

 

And about the apps - I'd be all over those if Moog wasn't stuffed full of Apple.     

 

[Al Coda]

10 hours ago, The Real MC said:

I think it's fair to say that in my 35+ years of gigging there are some things that people just can't understand.

• Guitar players pay $4000 and higher for a Gibson Les Paul sunburst with figured top, an instrument with approximately $500 worth of raw materials,
• $$$$ for a good tube Marshall amp with approximately $800 of raw materials,
• $$$ for pedals,
• And then balk at paying $5000 for a Minimoog.
• In the hands of an experienced player, playing lead lines on a Minimoog is one of the few instruments that can compete tone wise with a good guitar player.  
• Minimoogs have been a good synth for playing harmony lines with a guitar.
• Minimoogs have been the keyboard players' equivalent of a $4000+ Les Paul.
• Minimoogs can produce very good bass lines.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce screaming synthesizer lead tones with multiple VCOs producing a wonderful animation.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce bass drones with multiple VCOs that can shake a venue.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate traditional sounds like trumpet, flute, sax, oboe, strings, bells, drums, percussion, etc.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• As long as you hold the key down, Minimoogs will sustain a note forever.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate trademark sounds that guitar/bass players have been chasing such as that opening grinding rezz in "Tom Sawyer".  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs have expressive tools like long glide processing and a 3rd VCO in LFO mode that can pull off modulations other than vibrato.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• I have successfully duplicated bodily noises such as heartbeats, belches, farts, etc on a Minimoog.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs possess a filter with wonderful resonance that happens to be more effective than competing synths.
• Minimoog have a certain GROWL that I've heard on only a handful of synths.
• You can do A LOT with a Minimoog if you apply your brain to it.  It won't do EVERYTHING, but these are examples of sounds that the Minimoog just happens to do better than most synths.  After 35+ years of monkeying with synths, I certainly have tried.
• I have played/heard many plugins, soft synths, hardware copies of Minimoogs that fall short of the real thing.
• A Les Paul is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• A Minimoog is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• Many guitar players are a conservative lot who can't comprehend any electronic device more complex than the tone controls on their guitar, their amp, and their pedals.  No you don't need a PhD to operate a Minimoog but too many players don't put the work into learning a foreign instrument.  Concepts like subtractive synthesis, cross modulation, audio domain FM synthesis, with terms like modulation mix, modifiers, etc are foreign to the guitar player who first encounters a Minimoog and seldom get anything more sophisticated than simple lead and bass sounds.  I do know guitar players who "get it" and are competent around a Minimoog but they are few and far between.
  
  Yes, there is more to that.

 

 

You forgot to mention, guitar players hate keyboard players for the ability to do all that w/ THIS synthesizer, especially when combined w/ "their" tube amps, stomp-box-, and outboard FX.

They hate you for pitchbending alone, all the speedy runs being fast like "their´s" as also for your knowledge of "too much" music theory, scales, modes, chord progressions and such,- just because the common blues guitarist thinks only he has "the feelin´",- whlie playing his boring pentatonic s##t with his "set in stone" muscle memorized fingerings (3-fingers max !).

As also he,- as a blockhead,- thinks power riffs, distorted 4th, 5th, lines and pitchbended notes are HIS terrain alone !

 

 

A.C.

 

 

 

 

[BadLife]

Al Coda I really hope that is supposed to be a joke?

[KuruPrionz]

11 hours ago, The Real MC said:

I think it's fair to say that in my 35+ years of gigging there are some things that people just can't understand.

• Guitar players pay $4000 and higher for a Gibson Les Paul sunburst with figured top, an instrument with approximately $500 worth of raw materials,
• $$$$ for a good tube Marshall amp with approximately $800 of raw materials,
• $$$ for pedals,
• And then balk at paying $5000 for a Minimoog.
• In the hands of an experienced player, playing lead lines on a Minimoog is one of the few instruments that can compete tone wise with a good guitar player.  
• Minimoogs have been a good synth for playing harmony lines with a guitar.
• Minimoogs have been the keyboard players' equivalent of a $4000+ Les Paul.
• Minimoogs can produce very good bass lines.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce screaming synthesizer lead tones with multiple VCOs producing a wonderful animation.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can produce bass drones with multiple VCOs that can shake a venue.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate traditional sounds like trumpet, flute, sax, oboe, strings, bells, drums, percussion, etc.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• As long as you hold the key down, Minimoogs will sustain a note forever.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs can imitate trademark sounds that guitar/bass players have been chasing such as that opening grinding rezz in "Tom Sawyer".  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs have expressive tools like long glide processing and a 3rd VCO in LFO mode that can pull off modulations other than vibrato.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• I have successfully duplicated bodily noises such as heartbeats, belches, farts, etc on a Minimoog.  Can a $4000 Les Paul do that?
• Minimoogs possess a filter with wonderful resonance that happens to be more effective than competing synths.
• Minimoog have a certain GROWL that I've heard on only a handful of synths.
• You can do A LOT with a Minimoog if you apply your brain to it.  It won't do EVERYTHING, but these are examples of sounds that the Minimoog just happens to do better than most synths.  After 35+ years of monkeying with synths, I certainly have tried.
• I have played/heard many plugins, soft synths, hardware copies of Minimoogs that fall short of the real thing.
• A Les Paul is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• A Minimoog is the ultimate tool because they got the sum of the materials right for THAT SOUND.
• Many guitar players are a conservative lot who can't comprehend any electronic device more complex than the tone controls on their guitar, their amp, and their pedals.  No you don't need a PhD to operate a Minimoog but too many players don't put the work into learning a foreign instrument.  Concepts like subtractive synthesis, cross modulation, audio domain FM synthesis, with terms like modulation mix, modifiers, etc are foreign to the guitar player who first encounters a Minimoog and seldom get anything more sophisticated than simple lead and bass sounds.  I do know guitar players who "get it" and are competent around a Minimoog but they are few and far between.
  
  Yes, there is more to that.

Guitar player also buy used parts and build their own Stratocasters with wide, fat Warmoth necks that they've hand scalloped, EMG pickups and an EMG SPC and end up with a fantastic playing and sounding guitar for around $500.

Can you buy your Moog for $500?

 

Guitar players can play their electric guitar without an amp. It still makes sounds, the strings vibrate. 

Can you play your Moog without an amp?

 

Guitar players can play 3 strings at once and only raise, lower and/or add vibrato to one of the 3 notes that are being played.

Can you do that with your Moog?

 

Guitar players can instantly generate various harmonics on one or more strings with either their left, right or both hands.

Can you do that with your Moog?

 

Many keyboard players are a technical minded lot who can't comprehend actually touching the note and must press buttons and turn knobs in order to feel like they are "expressing" themselves. 

 

I'm sure there's more. Foof! 😇

 

 

 

 

 

[S_Gould]

59 minutes ago, BadLife said:

Al Coda I really hope that is supposed to be a joke?

You mean to say that you've never played in a band? 

[BadLife]

Ha ha I am speechless 🤣

[KuruPrionz]

Nevermind,  peace in the valley... 😇

[The Real MC]

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

 

Honestly, I was poking at you in jest

 

I wasn't sure you were busting me.  I deleted the post. 

[Al Coda]

13 hours ago, BadLife said:

Al Coda I really hope that is supposed to be a joke?

 

no, it`s not !!!

 

 

A.C.

[KuruPrionz]

14 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

 

You forgot to mention, guitar players hate keyboard players for the ability to do all that w/ THIS synthesizer, especially when combined w/ "their" tube amps, stomp-box-, and outboard FX.

They hate you for pitchbending alone, all the speedy runs being fast like "their´s" as also for your knowledge of "too much" music theory, scales, modes, chord progressions and such,- just because the common blues guitarist thinks only he has "the feelin´",- whlie playing his boring pentatonic s##t with his "set in stone" muscle memorized fingerings (3-fingers max !).

As also he,- as a blockhead,- thinks power riffs, distorted 4th, 5th, lines and pitchbended notes are HIS terrain alone !

 

 

A.C.

 

 

 

 

Gotta love these blanket statements, you know ALL the guitarists? 🤣 That's quite an assumption. 

 

Some of us just love music, in all its forms. Which is not to say that there isn't bad music or less than enjoyable musicians. True in every field of endeavor, some will strive for the tallest mountain and fall face first into the cesspool. Others will effortlessly excel, humans are an interesting lot, no? 

 

When I was a kid, Mom took us to see Artur Rubenstien and later to see Carlo Montoya. 

Both of them impressed me to no end, fantastic music, incredible artistry and they both made it look easy.

 

I will say that Carlos Montoya got a standing ovation on his first piece. He stood up, maybe 5 feet tall. He bowed and said in a high, squeaky voice "Thank you very much."

The audience was startled by the height and the voice, there was some laughter. 

My takeaway was that a guitar could make you a giant. That was an influential moment for me. 

 

I don't care what instrument people play, maybe they sing and don't play an instrument. If the music reaches me, it makes me happy. 

We are all human, there is no human culture in history that did not have some form of music. 

Be nice if we could all just support each other on our journeys. 👍

 

[EricBarker]

Just want to say that from a gigging perspective, you’d really want to compare the Moog Model D with a Behringer PolyD, not the Boog ModelD. Some may disagree, but for regular gigging, the builtin keyboard makes a lot of difference. I see the Boog ModelD as almost entirely a “bedroom producer synth”

 

Plus, with the paraphonic feature, it makes a half-decent 80s polysynth in a pinch.

[RABid]

Well, the modern Moog oscillators are a bit more stable than those on the Behringer Model D. Only the owner can decide if that and being full size is worth the extra $4700. Ironically, my biggest grip with the Moog back in the early 80's was that osc. 2 would not stay in tune for the entirety of a song. A tech in Nashville finally told me to do what many professionals do, turn off osc. 2. 

 

Right now, the biggest problem I see with paying $5000 for a reissue Model D is that for $2000 more you can have the 8 voice Moog One. Hmmm. Does anyone else think it is strange that the 8 voice version is called "One"? Oh well, for now I will stick with my Roland SE-02 and wish that it had a dedicated LFO like the new reissue.

[Josh Paxton]

On 11/18/2022 at 3:22 PM, Al Coda said:

 

Lightning fast envelopes for percussive attacks p.ex..

 

 

I think this is something that gets overlooked too often. It's one of the big reasons why the Minimoog's bass sounds were revered long after it was considered "obsolete" for other purposes: because with almost all later synths, the attack wasn't fast enough to make it sound punchy. Later polysynths were great for a lot of things, but if you needed a sound whose volume went from 0 to 100 instantaneously, they couldn't cut it. I mean, just try playing a Stevie Wonder or Bernie Worrell bass line on an Oberheim or Prohet, and tell me it doesn't sound wimpy as hell by comparison? That's why. I vaguely remember reading a Keyboard article back in the day where they actually measured this, and confirmed it to be true. I was too young and new to keyboards to really appreciate it at the time, but it stuck in my mind, and later when I got my hands on those instruments it made perfect sense. Hell, my first synth was a DX21, and for all its faults, that was one thing it nailed; it had those whipcrack-fast envelopes, and they spoiled me. My next board was an M1, and while it was better in so many ways, I still found myself asking "Why can I move my finger down and back up faster than this thing can count from 0 to 1 and back to 0 again?"

 

Fast forward to today and this is basically the reason I own a Subsequent 37. I was scrolling through the presets on one at the Moog factory, thinking "Yeah, this sounds great and all, but I couldn't justify buying one." Then just for kicks I hit "init patch" to see what I could come up with from scratch, and I heard the sound of just one raw oscillator on a saw wave with the filter wide open, and an instant-on, instant-off attack... and it was the bass sound I'd been hearing in my head that none of my other hardware could cut. I didn't literally walk out with one on the spot, but it wasn't much longer before one found its way into my house.

 

[The Real MC]

9 hours ago, RABid said:

Well, the modern Moog oscillators are a bit more stable than those on the Behringer Model D. Only the owner can decide if that and being full size is worth the extra $4700. Ironically, my biggest grip with the Moog back in the early 80's was that osc. 2 would not stay in tune for the entirety of a song. A tech in Nashville finally told me to do what many professionals do, turn off osc. 2. 

 

The old Minimoogs with the 3046 based oscillator board had a design error that caused VCO2 to drift out of tune.

When Behringer made the Model D, they copied the Moog schematics including the design error.

 

...and VCO2 on the Behringer drifts out of tune.

[Anderton]

18 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

When Behringer made the Model D, they copied the Moog schematics including the design error.

 

Wow. Just...wow.

[CyberGene]

If they didn’t copy the design error there would be folks criticizing Behringer for “drifting” off the true Minimoog 😉

[Al Coda]

16 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Gotta love these blanket statements, you know ALL the guitarists? 🤣 That's quite an assumption.

 

Well,- o.k. ...

You might have recognized I mentioned the typical blues guitarist,- possibly "metal" too, but not all.

 

ALL the musicians I worked w/ in pro studio- and touring biz didn´t show that extreme attitude and they all were able reading music and knew what they did.

 

But I also tried to work w/ a "Dream Theater like" metal band where the leader (lead guitarist too) and shouter asked. "Isn´t 1 keyboard and a notebook enough?" when they had seen my rig and racks.

When we rehearsed and I played the 1st Minimoog solo w/ flanger and some OD,- the shouter came over and said: "... and you don´t do any guitar parts here !"

According to the gear,- you might imagine this guitar player came w/ Marshall stacks, TC rackmount FX and a impressing pedal board and I´ll leave to your imagination how the drumkit and bass rig looked like.

Not to forget to mention it was a semi-pro band even they sold records in 22 counties over the globe at that time.

According to the demanded "laptop",- we had year 2001 and laptops w/ mediocre Intel Pentium 4 mobile processors barely running a handfull of plugins w/ acceptable latency and w/o the typical audio issues while my Powerbook was still PPC 800MHz.

Even a device like Creamware NOAH EX wasn´t on the market yet.

 

And before, in the early 70s, when I worked w/ amateur bands still, it was exactly what I described above.

Surprisingly, when I met some of these guys again after about 50 years, they still smoked lots of weed, didn´t improve and showed the same attitude as before.

 

Since then, I´m very picky on posers and I think that´s good.

 

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

5 hours ago, The Real MC said:

 

The old Minimoogs with the 3046 based oscillator board had a design error that caused VCO2 to drift out of tune.

When Behringer made the Model D, they copied the Moog schematics including the design error.

 

...and VCO2 on the Behringer drifts out of tune.

 

 

really ?

 

My Minimoog D w/ the latest OSC board is pretty damn stable !

I let it warm up for about 10 minutes, tune and can work w/ it ´til the cows come home.

Even when I used 2 in my formerly large rig, I had no serious tuning issues,- indoor or outdoor.

As a precondition, analog synths had to be set up and powered up early enough before tunig procedure.

 

I´m happy I didn´t buy a BOOG !

 

B.t.w.,- the  synth w/ most unstable tuning was the Roland MKS80 rev.4.

It needed minimum half an hour for warm up to be stable to be tuned,- and during gigs, I had to sent MIDI tune commands from masterkeyboard.

Luckily, it offered a fast autotune mode.

In fact it replaced my Prophet-5 rev3,- but I removed it from touring rig soon.

 

A.C.

[analogika]

As someone for whom the whole package of an instrument is integral to how it feels and how it makes me feel, it's weird to read these questions. 

 

My desert-island synth is the Lintronics Advanced Memorymoog. I've played the Moog One, but while that feels like I can coax stuff out of it that works really well because I grok how it works, the Memorymoog just kicks me in the face with its sheer rawness. It's more about taming that, than about trying to get something expressive. 

 

The Minimoog, though, is… it's weirdly perfect. It is literally impossible to get any sound out of it that isn't in some way awesome. It's one huge sweet spot — not always exactly what you expected, not always useful to what you're trying to do at the moment, but always awesome and somehow great. And its limited architecture means that you're never more than thirty seconds away from what you're looking for.
I do hate the keybed on both of my vintage Minis, though — they've been rebushed, but they still suck. 

But the format of the machine itself also plays a part. 

 

Is there a difference between playing a 10-foot Petrof grand piano and a Pianoteq emulation on a really good controller? I mean, they sound the same on the recording… 

 

The wooden box with THOSE controls, spaced exactly that way, with those switches, is a HUGE part of what makes…a Hammond B3. Oh yeah, and a Minimoog. Fiddling with settings on an iPad, or the little Behringer box… it's just not the same. 

 

As for "features": my piano has only one single preset sound, and just three modifier pedals. I can affect EQ and filter a bit by opening up the lid or removing the front panels, but that's it.

No idea why anybody would buy a piano. They're SUPER limited, given today's technology. 

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, analogika said:

Is there a difference between playing a 10-foot Petrof grand piano and a Pianoteq emulation on a really good controller? I mean, they sound the same on the recording… 

I get your point but that couldn't be further from the truth 😀 I can recognize the Pianoteq fakeness from a mile. Especially compared to a real acoustic piano recording which is just another universe. But let's not start that here... As I said, I get the point and I agree with it 👍🏻 I'm also influenced a lot by how things look and feel and I prefer the real wood and smell and feel, I love limitations that provoke creativity. Basically I agree with everything you said. However, I still find this as a bit superficial and that's a self-critique, I would have preferred if I was more one of those guys who are practical and save money by buying stuff that works, regardless of its aesthetics or other non-essential (to its purpose) values 😕

[GRollins]

I've heard these doom-full pronouncements about Oscillator 2 on the Behringer Model D before, but never seen them backed up with the schematics in question, both Moog and Behringer, side by side. I've got two Behringer D's and both behave quite nicely, thank you very much. It's all just Behringer-hate as far as I can tell.

 

As for price comparisons between the Moog D and One...it seems to me that the Moog D is priced rather dearly. Not arguing that. Separately, as I said in a thread a while back, I spent an hour or so with a One and was unmoved. It wasn't magical. There's no doubt that the polyphony is nice--love that part--but the sound never grabbed me...not even a little bit. There are people who will chime in and say that they have a One and love it and worship it and couldn't live without it. That's okay. If you've got one and it works for you, then that's good. But it doesn't have that certain je nais se quois that the D has. Or the Voyager, for that matter.

 

It was clear that the One was coming; Moog was dumping Voyagers and telling people that something new was on the way, but I'm glad I sat tight on my Voyagers. I think I would have been pretty unhappy if I had gotten rid of them and gone with a One, sight unseen. Kinda like when I heard that there was a New & Improved cut of Star Wars on the way--I got rid of my trusty VHS set. Bought the newfangled DVD set, only to find that...WTF?...Greedo shot first??? WHAT??? Gawd, I wish I had my old VHS set back. My boys have never seen the cantina scene properly. I think the Voyager/One thing would have been the same for me.

 

Grey

[KuruPrionz]

5 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Well,- o.k. ...

You might have recognized I mentioned the typical blues guitarist,- possibly "metal" too, but not all.

 

ALL the musicians I worked w/ in pro studio- and touring biz didn´t show that extreme attitude and they all were able reading music and knew what they did.

 

But I also tried to work w/ a "Dream Theater like" metal band where the leader (lead guitarist too) and shouter asked. "Isn´t 1 keyboard and a notebook enough?" when they had seen my rig and racks.

When we rehearsed and I played the 1st Minimoog solo w/ flanger and some OD,- the shouter came over and said: "... and you don´t do any guitar parts here !"

According to the gear,- you might imagine this guitar player came w/ Marshall stacks, TC rackmount FX and a impressing pedal board and I´ll leave to your imagination how the drumkit and bass rig looked like.

Not to forget to mention it was a semi-pro band even they sold records in 22 counties over the globe at that time.

According to the demanded "laptop",- we had year 2001 and laptops w/ mediocre Intel Pentium 4 mobile processors barely running a handfull of plugins w/ acceptable latency and w/o the typical audio issues while my Powerbook was still PPC 800MHz.

Even a device like Creamware NOAH EX wasn´t on the market yet.

 

And before, in the early 70s, when I worked w/ amateur bands still, it was exactly what I described above.

Surprisingly, when I met some of these guys again after about 50 years, they still smoked lots of weed, didn´t improve and showed the same attitude as before.

 

Since then, I´m very picky on posers and I think that´s good.

 

 

A.C.

Got ya, I HATE bands that are too loud and arrogance from those who think they are "leaders". I won't put up with it either. 

 

So, I'm with ya on that. I've auditioned for quite a few bands and after a couple of songs I thank them, pack up my gear and leave. 

 

That said, it's not just us guitarists and truly, many players simply scoot around on the pentatonic basics regarding blues. Blues is a deep, complex language all it's own - the birthplace of American music including jazz. But you have to understand the "blue notes" and not just scoot around on a pentatonic scale. Much of blues expression is in between the frets and the keys, there is a reason so many of the great blues artists played slide or sang their blues with the guitar or piano just holding down the framework.

 

The roots are an evolution of Middle Eastern music, coming through Africa. There are more than 12 tempered notes in a blues scale and many of them have subtle variations, the dominant 7th comes to mind - I almost never play that "on the fret" in a solo context and what micro-tone you use depends on what you are expressing.

Cheers, Kuru 

[Bill H.]

34 minutes ago, GRollins said:

 

As for price comparisons between the Moog D and One...it seems to me that the Moog D is priced rather dearly.

Grey

Doesn't look like Moog priced the D reissue cost plus.  My guess is that they noticed what people were paying for the original reissue, and decided to price the new reissue from there. 

 

Wasn't there a finite limit on the original reissue because of a critical component no longer made? But they found some, and then stopped manufacturing Model D's  when they ran out? Anyone remember this story, and what do you think they're doing for the reissue of the reissue? Boy that's a mouthful...

[RABid]

Well, I just ordered a Behringer Model D. For the going price of $261 it is hard to pass up and will sit nicely next to my Behringer 2600. Gives me a nostalgia fix without raiding my Jupiter X fund. I plan to MIDI it to a keyboard, play along with "Just What I Needed" and see for myself if osc 2 has fallen out of tune by the time the first synth solo comes around. 

 

I really do hope Moog does well with the reissue Model D. Success enables them to fund more interesting instruments like the DFAM which is probably my favorite Moog purchase over the last 20 years.

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

many players simply scoot around on the pentatonic basics regarding blues

Many player simply scoot around on the pentatonic basics regarding everything! There's nothing more boring to me than a guitar player who can't look beyond the five (or fewer) pentatonic shapes they've learned, based on the I of the song against every chord. By contrast, a well-constructed guitar solo that follows the harmony, emphasising the distinction between chord tones and so on, is a thing of beauty.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, stoken6 said:

Many player simply scoot around on the pentatonic basics regarding everything! There's nothing more boring to me than a guitar player who can't look beyond the five (or fewer) pentatonic shapes they've learned, based on the I of the song against every chord. By contrast, a well-constructed guitar solo that follows the harmony, emphasising the distinction between chord tones and so on, is a thing of beauty.

 

Cheers, Mike.

That, plus "the notes that are wrong", those are fun too!!!!