Hey Notes Norton, You Doin' OK There in the Florida Keys?

[Anderton]

Seeing people walking around in waist-deep water, and airplanes flipped over, gives one pause. Hope you're doing okay.

[harmonizer]

Based on his web site, my guess is that he is located near Ft Pierce on the East Coast.

[Anderton]

I'm pretty sure he lives in the Florida keys. I think his business is centered around Ft. Pierce. The fact that he hasn't posted here is...well, telling.

[Notes_Norton]

I've gigged in the Keys, grew up near Fort Lauderdale (Pompano Beach), but I live in Fort Pierce now. It's on the east coast, about even with the north side of the big lake in the middle of the state (Lake Okeechobee).

 

Thanks for your concern, I'm doing just fine. My major problems are light: I lost 2 gigs, I lost a few tree branches, quite a few palm fronds are down, and I have a big mess to clean up. I got lucky and missed the brunt of this. It's still windy, with gusts to 85mph, but that's nothing like sustained 155mph.

 

Growing up in Florida, I have a lot of observational experience.

• Get drop-down, aluminum awnings for your windows, and storm panels for everything that an awning doesn't work for. The awnings convert to storm protection for about 2 minutes each. Plywood is a PITA, takes too long to put up, and sometimes hard to get. Living in a hurricane zone, owning shutters is like having a spare tire on your car. You may not need it, but if you do, you will be glad.
• Never buy a house either on the barrier island, or on low-lying land. 90% of the homes here were built on land that was swamp for all or part of the year. When we get a lot of rain, they want to return to swampland. Oceanside, I saw about 1/4 mile of barrier island disappear when I was young. The hurricane took it and everything on it. They tried to dredge sand and replace it, but the loose sand was taken away by a few high tides. As much as I'd love to live on the water, I won't. I live on the Eastern Sand ridge, 32' above sea level, I call it The Florida Alps. Water rolls downhill, and if we get a 32' storm surge, we are all gone
• Since I was young, the developers urged (bribed) the elected officials to water down the building code. Now they build housed built with 2-by-4 sticks and have asphalt shingle roofs. Millions of northerners buy them, and every hurricane, the big bad wolf blows a few down. The salesperson never told them these are only good for a cat 1 hurricane or perhaps a milder cat 2.
• We have a water well, and we have been out of electricity for as many as 10 days after a storm. So at the beginning of hurricane season, I buy gas for my generator. At the end of hurricane season, it goes in my car. During Frances, Ivan, and Jeanne, some of us lost prime so on my dead-end street, water hoses and electric extension cables crisscrossed the neighborhood.
• At the beginning of hurricane season, I stock up on nonperishable food and make sure I have charcoal for the grill.
• When the storm gets close I drop the awnings, put up the panels, store water for drinking and toilet flushing, pick up anything in the yard that could be a projectile, and make sure my rechargeable batteries are charged and the lanterns in reach.

Unlike an earthquake, avalanche, tsunami, tornado, blizzard, and many other natural disasters, we know it's coming days, even a week before it gets here, and if you live in the right place, in the right kind of house, and prepare well, the chances of surviving are better at home than with the crazy drivers trying to evacuate. That of course doesn't mean 100% safety, but unless something rare happens, it's likely survivable.

 

My heart goes out to those in the Keys, I'd love to live there but I won't. I remember after Donna, a bar in the middle keys had a stripe painted inside the bar, about 7 foot high, noting how high the water came (not the waves). And for those on the West Coast, 155mph is wicked and those in the wrong kind of houses and in the wrong places will suffer. And the salesperson who sold them the house never told them they were in the wrong kind of house in the wrong location. I hope you all survived. Stuff is replaceable, life is not.

 

Thanks again for your concern.

 

Notes ♫

 

[KuruPrionz]

Good to hear from you, Notes!!!

 

We have different problems up here in the great Northwest but some are not that different. 

I knew when I moved here that you want to live on the side of a slope. Not the top of the hill, that can be insurmountable in winter when snow gets compacted to ice. 

Vehicles with good tires and good drivers can get up just about any hill but getting down is another story. 

I am on a gentle incline that goes much lower and it's a short walk to 3 different grocery stores, that's a good location. 

 

Here, despite active volcanos and inevitable earthquakes as the Juan de Fuca plate subsides under the North American plate, the biggest danger is wildfires. 

We have LOTS of forested areas with people living in houses surrounded by wilderness. Every summer seems to get a bit dryer, although we make up for it in the winter. 

All it will take is some idiot having a BBQ on a windy day in August and there will be gnashing of teeth and rending of sackcloth. 

 

The smoke is bad enough but being burned to death is probably my least favorite idea. 

So I live in town, well away from the forests. And I hope for the best for all of us!!!!! Cheers, Kuru

[BMD]

You'd be as well relocating to the UK, Notes.

 

We don't have the kind of problems you have in the States. What we do have is the NHS and the Royal Family. Oh, and coach tours that visit sites relating to The Beatles. Come to the UK, old son. You'd be mad not to

[Anderton]

3 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I've gigged in the Keys, grew up near Fort Lauderdale (Pompano Beach), but I live in Fort Pierce now. It's on the east coast, about even with the north side of the big lake in the middle of the state (Lake Okeechobee).

 

Ah, okay. I remember your talking about the Keys at one point, and I assumed it was because you lived there.

 

I lived in Stuart for 10 years when I was doing so much work in Europe, it was a much easier commute than California. Jeanne and Ivan were tough, having two back-to-back hurricanes is nasty. I had one of those those 11-days-without-electricity moments. But, I knew all the stuff you mentioned - hurricane shutters, fill the bathtubs, eat up everything in the fridge before the hurricane actually hits, have canned food, etc. So it's doable.

 

You're right, the fact that you know it's coming is a lot better than, for example, getting slammed by an earthquake while you're driving on a bridge

[Anderton]

9 minutes ago, BMD said:

Come to the UK, old son. You'd be mad not to

 

Isn't it fairly difficult for people to relocate there permanently - paperwork etc.? My understanding is it's not like Malta, where you can pretty much just show up and settle down.

[BMD]

25 minutes ago, Anderton said:

 

Isn't it fairly difficult for people to relocate there permanently - paperwork etc.? My understanding is it's not like Malta, where you can pretty much just show up and settle down.

 

Dunno, to be honest. I was just having a bit of a drunken laugh with Bob

[Notes_Norton]

19 hours ago, BMD said:

Come to the UK, old son. You'd be mad not to

I loved the month or so I spent in the UK, but the climate is too cold for me. Anything under 24C/75F is too cold for me.

 

Actually, I'd like to get out of the USA and move to Australia (which has its own climate problems) but I'm too old and/or don't have enough money. Plus my house it paid off, I'm debt free, so if necessary, I could actually survive on my social security money

 

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

20 hours ago, Anderton said:

I lived in Stuart for 10 years when I was doing so much work in Europe, it was a much easier commute than California. Jeanne and Ivan were tough, having two back-to-back hurricanes is nasty.

 That's right down the road from me, and I never knew.

 

I live in St. Lucie county, South of Fort Pierce and most of our gigs are from Stuart south to Vero Beach north with Ft. P in the middle.

 

I would have bopped down to say "Hi!"

 

If you ever come back for a visit, let me know.

 

--------------------------------------

 

On a related hurricane note.

 

True, hurricanes are getting worse, but damage by the waterfront is not. As much as I think it would be heaven to live on the barrier island or one of the waterways, I know better. This isn't the first time extensive waterfront damage has occurred. The West Coast suffered this, though not quite as bad, in my lifetime. And the East Coast hasn't fared any better.

 

I gigged quite a few times at the Stuart/Jensen Holiday Inn on the beach. A hurricane came through, surge and waves crashed through the building, it sat vacant for years and is now gone. In Pompano, where I grew up, I saw 1/4 mile of the barrier island disappear in a storm, along with everything on it. They tried to pump sand back to restore it, but the loose sand just got washed away with the tides. It never came back.

 

The thing that gets me is this, why do people live there and re-build? The barrier island should be off limits for building and 100% public beach. Then the isands can move around like they have done for all eternity.

 

The same goes for those rivers across the USA that flood every few years.

 

You know the islands and the river valleys are going to flood again.  You lost all your possessions and barely escaped with your life, and you want to rebuild in the same place again?

 

That doesn't sound rational to me.

 

But what do I know?

 

Notes ♫

 

Some pictures of hurricanes after Frances and Jeanne all on the barrier island. Our total loss inland and on high ground was a water softener hit by a tree limb.

 

 

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

Up here in Washington, we had the Nooksack river rise to easily seen previous levels (the high water line is obvious.

There were LOTS of homes built below that water line and those people just spent a fortune on repairs. 

 

When you think of "Average IQ", remember that means that half the people are not that smart and some of them are not at all smart. 

It's a rare year when the Skagit Valley south of us does not flood. Most of it is farmland but a fair number of homes are affected. 
I have friends who have a home on Highway 9 just north of Sedro Wooley and every winter the entire yard becomes a mass of sticky, nasty mud. It will pull your shoes off if you wear the wrong ones. 

 

Despite coming from a desert climate (Fresno), I knew when I moved up here that you want to live a little ways up a slope and always look for the high waterline.

Remember a few decades back when the Mississippi River rose to its easily seen high water mark? Thousands of homes were damaged or destroyed and I'll guarantee you there are more people living there now then there was back then. 

 

Crazy, straight up bat-sh1t crazy!!!!!

[David Emm]

I'm glad that you are still above the dirt rather than below it. I've lived through several hurricanes. Much like the time I saw a shark while scuba diving, it was a major bladder-strength test. Having been a diver for a while, my first video of bleached coral reefs made me ill. Do you like to eat? That's a major starting point in the food chain. We're going to die from Ignorance, because if more people understood it, they'd clench up hard and stop consuming @ 90 mph with both hands.  

 

Please allow me to take this moment for an apology, as my hypocrisy is sticking out like a sore (bleep). I had fast food for lunch and I bought another synthesizer.

We'll all go together when we go!

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

Storm awnings are up, shutters are down, more palm fronds and tree branches than I can sound piled up for the trash collectors, all the neighbors on this dead-end street checked on, and everyone is OK.

 

We missed the bullet on this one, and only got hit by a bit of shrapnel.

 

So to celebrate our good luck, it's time to donate some blood and write a check to the Red Cross.

 

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

Hit me once, shame on you, hit me twice, shame on me.

 

In 1960, Hurricane Donna, with 145mph winds and a 14' storm surge damaged 75% of the homes in Fort Meyers Beach. Years later some friends of mine moved there, Hurricane Charlie came through, and they lost everything but the clothes they evacuated with.

 

And yet they keep building more and more and more houses on the barrier islands.

 

I put the blame on the zoning boards and greedy developers who keep building more and more and more in the barrier islands. The folks come down from 'up north' and look at the beauty and island lifestyle and are hooked. Nobody tells them if a hurricane hits them dead on, they could lose everything. The zoning people and realtors are experts, and they should warn the people, of course that gets in the way of profits. So indirectly, these people are guilty of the death and/or destruction of this recent storm (and others).

 

It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Notes ♫

[Polychrest]

Question from a bemused northerner:  are the people—idiots—who rebuild on low-lying hurricane-savaged parts of Florida able to get insurance?  If so, who underwrites the insurance industry’s massive loss exposure?

[RABid]

19 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I put the blame on the zoning boards and greedy developers who keep building more and more and more in the barrier islands. The folks come down from 'up north' and look at the beauty and island lifestyle and are hooked. Nobody tells them if a hurricane hits them dead on, they could lose everything. The zoning people and realtors are experts, and they should warn the people, of course that gets in the way of profits. So indirectly, these people are guilty of the death and/or destruction of this recent storm (and others).

It is not just Florida. In my area, and I am sure many others, someone will buy a spot of land that has remained undeveloped because it floods, haul a few hundred loads of rock and dirt to build it up, then builds a shopping center on it. Then a heavy rain comes, the water no longer can go where it used to, and someone gets flooded that never had a problem before.

[RABid]

23 minutes ago, Polychrest said:

Question from a bemused northerner:  are the people—idiots—who rebuild on low-lying hurricane-savaged parts of Florida able to get insurance?  If so, who underwrites the insurance industry’s massive loss exposure?

Flood insurance is frequently separate from home owners insurance. A knowledgable person will ask if it is included. Many people never ask. They just assume it is included. FEMA has a division that will sell flood insurance to someone living in a flood zone. Home owners have to be willing to pursue this, and pay the cost.

[Anderton]

On 10/1/2022 at 7:42 PM, Notes_Norton said:

It just doesn't make sense to me.

 Hubris.

[KuruPrionz]

22 hours ago, RABid said:

It is not just Florida. In my area, and I am sure many others, someone will buy a spot of land that has remained undeveloped because it floods, haul a few hundred loads of rock and dirt to build it up, then builds a shopping center on it. Then a heavy rain comes, the water no longer can go where it used to, and someone gets flooded that never had a problem before.

We have problems with flooding up here too. Last December, the Nooksack River rose to the point (easily seen if one looks for the high water line) that the towns of Sumas and Everson were flooded. Contractors from Bellingham were booked for months fixing all the homes that were damaged. This not the first flood and it will not be the last. Rivers don't listen to people and apparently people don't pay enough attention to rivers. 

 

We've also got problems with people building homes in the woods. Sudden Valley is a housing association with 6,000+ occupants and it is against association rules to remove any trees unless they are certified as diseased or a hazard. I've seen at least 3 homes that a cedar tree (tall trees with shallow roots) were blown over by the wind and smashed their roof in. The year before I moved here, a couple and their dog were sitting in their car in the parking lot in front of the Sudden Valley Market and the wind (we get gusts up to 70 mph) blew a tree over, it hit their car and killed all three of them. 

 

This is to say nothing of all the folks who live nestled among the trees up steep hills with substandard roads. Wildfires are inevitable at some point, every summer gets longer and drier. I fear for them but all I can really do is live in town, on a slope and well away from dense forest land. 

[Notes_Norton]

On 10/2/2022 at 3:46 PM, Polychrest said:

Question from a bemused northerner:  are the people—idiots—who rebuild on low-lying hurricane-savaged parts of Florida able to get insurance?  If so, who underwrites the insurance industry’s massive loss exposure?

Right now, the insurers are fleeing Florida. And for those that are still here, for a minimal house on higher ground, it's about $3,000 per year to add wind insurance. I am in one of the few spots in the county that doesn't need flood insurance. I'm 32' above sea level when the rest of the county is barely above sea level.

 

I know where the lowest risk is, since I've lived here most of my life. That's where I bought my house.

 

Notes ♫

[The Real MC]

I'm a former NYer who relocated to FL last year.  I've been through enough extreme weather to be very conscious of optimal locations when buying a house.  I'm located in Deltona about an hour northeast of Orlando which is about midpoint on the peninsula.  We got tropical storm wind and rain when Ian went through.  My house is on elevated lot so rain water drains away; after Ian I saw its effectiveness and will never have a flood risk (I suffered a flood back up north).  I lost four panes of the fence and the wind blew out the back window of the cap on my pickup.  No other damage.  A neighbor said the last time the area got extreme weather was 1998 when Charlie went through.  This is a low risk area for hurricane weather.  I knew better than to settle on barrier island or close to the coast.

[Notes_Norton]

Wise move.

 

I've always lived on the Eastern Sand Ridge in South Florida. I bought my current home in 1990. It's 32' above sea level. So far the worst damage I suffered was the mast where the power lines hit the house bent over. The lines didn't break or touch the ground, and the repair was inexpensive.

 

If you have a well constructed home (and I'm not talking about a 2by4 stick house), the damage to your home will be minimal. That is, if you are on high ground.

 

In my experience in Florida Hurricanes, for most homes, the wind does repairable damage. It's the water that is the big problem.

 

Ft Meyers Beach, on a barrier island, gets destroyed an average of every 15 years. As beautiful as it is there, it just doesn't make sense to me to live in the danger zone.

 

IMO the gov't should say, "OK people, this is the last bail-out. If you move back, you are on your own." And that warning should be a part of every deed and lease in the future, so people know the chance they are taking.

 

But that's just me. It'll never happen. There is too much profit in the 'take-the-money-and-run' land developers.

 

Notes ♫

[RABid]

People don't realize how long it takes to recover from something like this. Parts of Southeast Kentucky got flooded in late July. People are just getting to the point that they can start rebuilding. My church is planning another work trip in November. You don't just sweep it all away one week and rebuild the next. You have to clean everything, check the foundation for damage, check wiring and plumbing, replace dry wall, carpet, flooring. If you get lucky with supplies and find workers then you start painting and looking for furnishings. There was already a shortage of building materials. It has been over two months and crews from surrounding states are still helping to restore power and water. Entire communities were wiped out in SE Kentucky, but the damage is minor compared to what just hit Florida. This is going to be a long recovery, then it will eventually go back to how it was and we will wait for the next disaster. 

[Notes_Norton]

Water damage takes forever to recover from, even if it didn't wash your home away (which of course is far worse).

 

I used to gig at a Holiday Inn Oceanside in Stuart/Jensen Beach, Florida. It had a fairly large lounge that hired duos and trios. We would get a month or two contracts, once or twice a year.

 

It was located on the ocean in Jensen Beach. The hotel was profitable, and due to its great location, usually full.

 

Then one year a hurricane came, and flooded the first floor, and to get rid of the mold and any structural damage seemed too expensive for the current owners. It sat vacant for years, nobody wanted to buy it, the present owners gave up, and eventually torn down. Demolishing it was cheaper than fixing it.

 

Eleven later, someone bought the land and is building a new hotel on the same site. I wish them luck.

 

Notes ♫

[Threadslayer]

Another downstream effect from flooding is used car scams. I just saw a cautionary Ad on the LA news this morning warning potential buyers about water damaged cars "flooding" the market. This was a thing after Katrina as well.