Yamaha MODX+

[Dockeys]

Seems quite the price hike for a few very minor upgrades in my eyes. Bit of extra ram, 128 voice for FM…which is fine if you use/like FM, and montage mod wheels….do people really think this is an upgrade worth noting?? Am I missing something else?
 

What was the MODX8…€1600?? Even allowing for the whole mess that is chip shortages it’s still way too much of an increase. I love my modx7. Action is so-so but I can live with it. But for €2000 I’d expect a lot more for my money, an improved keybed for starters. The CP73 keybed would have been a big improvement. 

[JohnH]

The same thing in the auto industry. Ford isn't going to dump trucks that can be maxed out with options to almost $100,000 or more ( my buddy spent about $98k on his Raptor) to just sell Rangers and Mavericks that sell for way less than half that.

[CyberGene]

13 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

These watered down versions are simply not the same quality -- sonically

I was under the impression that at least sonically they are the same, use identical samples and audio engine. The only difference is better DAC-s on the Montage which could explain some sonic difference if you listen with good monitors/headphones. But if high-quality recording is the goal, they both support digital audio through USB which will eliminate the DAC advantage.

[AnotherScott]

12 minutes ago, Dockeys said:

What was the MODX8…€1600?? Even allowing for the whole mess that is chip shortages it’s still way too much of an increase...But for €2000 I’d expect a lot more for my money

In the U.S., MODX8 was $2k, MODX8+ is $2200. 

[Dockeys]

3 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

In the U.S., MODX8 was $2k, MODX8+ is $2200. 

That’s a big increase on the euro side so. I paid €1599 for my MODX8 a few years ago. Was about a year after its launch. Maybe the modx+ will drop a little after time. 

[Stokely]

45 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I was under the impression that at least sonically they are the same, use identical samples and audio engine. The only difference is better DAC-s on the Montage which could explain some sonic difference if you listen with good monitors/headphones. But if high-quality recording is the goal, they both support digital audio through USB which will eliminate the DAC advantage.

Same here.  I've watched some vids, which of course were youtube, not the best for critical listening.  I don't know if they used the audio outs or usb, but I couldn't hear any difference at all.

I only use mine at gigs though, and if the montage sounded different than the modx in that situation I'd be very surprised.  I've recorded a few tunes direct from the board and it sounded fantastic.

I do like the weight of the modx of course, but I am considering either a montage or fantom a bit down the road, maybe used.   I just saw a "great" condition fantom 7 on guitar center for 2499, it lasted only two days. One negative is that I'll need a new beefier, probably wheeled case for either of them.

If Modx+ had that white-ish color the Montage had, I might upgrade   That is really sharp and it's probably easier to see controls.

[ProfD]

Calm down my KC brethren, I didn't type that Yamaha was going to or should discontinue the Montage. Only that I wouldn't be surprised if they did it. 😁

 

Otherwise, for the reasons mentioned here, clearly there's still a market for the big brother to the MODX. 😎

[Jose EB5AGV]

1 hour ago, Dave Ferris said:

...

These watered down versions are simply not the same quality -- sonically , keybed feel and build quality.

 

Exactly my thoughts. And the reason I preferred to buy a used Montage 6 over a new MODX7. And I am glad I did! (specially for the keybed and extra controls/buttons and overall tank-like feeling)

[brenner13]

Nice to see them recognize the need for more polyphony and memory in the MODX, but still no aftertouch? Pretty easy to squelch the desire to upgrade my MODX7.

[Coker]

I think it’s safe to say that the MODX+ was not intended to attract current MODX owners as an upgrade.  Rather, it’s the next release of an already attractive synth (to some of us) to compete for the next generation of buyers.

[Fleer]

4 hours ago, Dockeys said:

 

What was the MODX8…€1600?? Even allowing for the whole mess that is chip shortages it’s still way too much of an increase. I love my modx7. Action is so-so but I can live with it. But for €2000 I’d expect a lot more for my money, an improved keybed for starters. The CP73 keybed would have been a big improvement. 

My price was €1470. 
But those MODX8 keys were clunky as hell. 

[Docbop]

Interesting people saying the Modx+ still isn't good enough, but it's identical to the flagship Montage just less controls and a less expensive keybed now.

[Mighty Motif Max]

3 minutes ago, Docbop said:

Interesting people saying the Modx+ still isn't good enough, but it's identical to the flagship Montage just less controls and a less expensive keybed now.

I think that it's more that people expected more substantial upgrades given that it's a whole new model and priced higher - the majority of the complaints that folks have had for the last 4 years or so haven't been addressed, other than the increased memory. If this wasn't hyped up so much, the response might be gentler. Now, for me, I own a regular MODX7. It's absolutely a "good enough" board and is more than good enough in many ways. The MODX+ is also a perfectly good board. It's more of Yamaha trying to position the MODX+ as a substantial upgrade when really it's not that has people annoyed I think.

[ElmerJFudd]

I would suggest though that the main reason isn’t split, layer, control, functionality (unless of course the gig calls for more than MODX+ can do). Fantom-0, MODX+ have become pretty potent in this regard.  It likely has more to do with action, build quality, the desire for highest quality sound in recording situations, and the budget for pro paying work.  Lower tier gigs is definitely the significantly wider market for players on a budget looking to reduce schlep.  
 

And that’s why Yamaha and the rest pick and choose what we get and don’t get at different price points.  For players picky about action, we get CP, YC - better quality action and build with narrower sound palette for less than a Montage.  MODX - wide sound palette, more flexible functionality, lesser build for less than a Montage.  If we want the sound, features and the action - so sorry, you have to buy a Montage. 
 

I think the current tough market, competitors like Nord and Dexibell, as well as the controller+laptop option have  forced MODX+, Fantom-0, Nautilus and even YC/CP type instruments to offer more than ever before.  Wether or not we bite, well, the market will decide and they must adapt. 

[DeltaJockey]

I originally bought a MODX8 when they first came out, as I didn't think I could justify the extra expense on a Montage for some stuff I didn't use. I ended up selling it and buying a Montage8, no regrets! The things which got to me on the MODX was the clunky GHS keybed and the plasticy boxy sound of the front panel every time I pressed a button. I used it only in a studio environment and was happy with its audio quality. However, when I got the Montage and MODX side by side in the studio, I could definitely here the subtle improvement in sound quality out of the Montage analog outputs. I use the Montage as a 4 channel audio interface, and still think it has a silky sweet output

 

I love the all metal construction when pushing the front panel buttons, so paying extra for the quality, and still not using some functionality was not an issue for me in the end.

[HammondDave]

I was really enamored by the light weight... but light weight means tradeoffs in build quality and sturdiness (and cheap clacking keys). I took out my Motif XS7 yesterday and set it up in my studio. It weighs a ton, but what a quality keyboard!  In most cases, you totally get what you pay for. 

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, Docbop said:

Interesting people saying the Modx+ still isn't good enough, but it's identical to the flagship Montage just less controls and a less expensive keybed now.

There are numerous other differences, e.g. 8-part seamless switching (instead of 4), effects on all 16 internal parts (instead of 12), PAC (pure analog circuit) output stage, 16-in 6-out audio channels over USB (instead of 10-in 4-out), support for higher sampling rate, internal power supply, better connectivity (balanced outs, MIDI Thru, assignable outs)

 

But some people were looking not to add more Montage capabilities to the MODX, but to add things that would be new to both MODX and Montage.

[1203]

3 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

And that’s why Yamaha and the rest pick and choose what we get and don’t get at different price points.  For players picky about action, we get CP, YC - better quality action 

 

 

That’s right for the 88 models of the CP and YC, for sure. But i had the CP73 and the YC73 side by side for one week to my Modx8, and the BHS-actions of them did not feel any better 
than the GHS from the MODX. For me, it was quite the opposite: Black key issues and clanky keys only on the CP/YC, not on the Modx8. 

[DeltaJockey]

36 minutes ago, 1203 said:

That’s right for the 88 models of the CP and YC, for sure. But i had the CP73 and the YC73 side by side for one week to my Modx8, and the BHS-actions of them did not feel any better 
than the GHS from the MODX. For me, it was quite the opposite: Black key issues and clanky keys only on the CP/YC, not on the Modx8. 

 I think the issue with the various keybeds, is an individual issue, related to the design causing variability in the problems from unit to unit. I suspect the GHS in the MODX I had, was caused by the hammers hitting plastic because the cushioning tape must have not been attached properly, where as someone else may never have had a problem. On the other hand my BHA on the Montage has been excellent, even though it is not my favourite keybed. (For some reason, I've always found Yamaha keybeds of all flavours to be a bit sluggish on the initial velocity range  when controlling external instruments, and have always had to apply some velocity offset in my DAW.)

[Dockeys]

Thomann now listing the MODX8+ at €2299! 😆

[ElmerJFudd]

8 hours ago, 1203 said:

That’s right for the 88 models of the CP and YC, for sure. But i had the CP73 and the YC73 side by side for one week to my Modx8, and the BHS-actions of them did not feel any better 
than the GHS from the MODX. For me, it was quite the opposite: Black key issues and clanky keys only on the CP/YC, not on the Modx8. 

Yes, but I think they prioritized light weight on the 73k models as a selling point, they’re under 30lbs but maintain the rest of the build quality.  
 

When I’ve sat at the MODX8 to try it in shop, I think it plays/speaks quite well with the included pianos (the synth action is cheap feeling but no worse than competitors). I also think the Yamaha P125 is an excellent choice as a beginner’s digital piano, though I’d probably opt for the Kawai ES110/120 as a bit better feeling.  Casio PX-5S and 560 are also piano-like and clacky but good enough for amplified gigs.  Clacking isn’t an issue with PA amplified gigs.  But can get annoying fast when expecting a digital piano to sit in place of an acoustic with unmic’d acoustic instruments.  MODX8 is definitely intended for  schlepping to club dates, pop, rock, rnb, etc. 
 

If I were practicing/playing at home at lower volume levels and I wanted a better action I’d opt for a Yamaha-P515 at $1599.  All the synthy bells and whistles can be provided by a laptop or iPad if one is jonesing for Montage-ness on a budget. 

[MotiDave]

On 8/26/2022 at 1:22 PM, EscapeRocks said:

Wow.... is the MODX really that difficult?

 

I was up and running right away when I bought mine.

"many people now find impenetrable?"    hyperbole, much?   The UI is just fine.

 

This is not a 'beginner's' board, if you want more than just being a preset jockey.   You have to know a little about synthesis, and know what kind of parameters you're looking for.

 

The MODX can be as easy or difficult as you make it.  Personally, I find it easy.   I would assume most people doing editing and programming don't have much issue with memory retention, so once you find what you're looking for, you remember to do it.

 

The MODX and MONTAGE are fine instruments.

As is my new Fantom-08 with it's layers of menus.

Or my Nautilus, etc...

 

If you want ALL the features, like more than 4 sliders, buy the Montage.

Want 9 sliders and knobs on your Roland? buy the big brother Fantom

 

One tip for using any capacitive touch screen keyboard:    use a stylus.   Makes flying thru the menus a breeze.

 

 

 

 

Someone’s starting point is usually the insight to their path then taken.  I’ve been playing only Motif XF, MOXF and now MODX for the last 10 years, I find MODX extremely easy to do the things that were much more difficult on the other two.  Especially MOXF - menu diving to get to basic parameters was torture - if I hadn’t already learned Yamaha structure on the XF, I never would have found or learned it on MOXF.

 

I personally find other boards completely confusing - because I don’t have practical experience using or modifying their programs.  MODX/Montage is by far the best UI Yamaha has ever offered us.  

 

MODX set list is so easy compared to the others.  We used to have to buy Melas library manager tool to do basic set re-ordering simply.  That meant connect to laptop, download bank(s) to be used, reorder, and reload back to keyboard.  On MODX i don’t ever bother to connect to anything - even if the list is completely different, it takes me at most 3 minutes to re-order a 25 song set list.  I do wish there was a drag/drop feature to slide a performance BETWEEN two performances in the list but its a small knit.  I can easily re-program order on stage while the drummer is getting his f-in bass drum mic checked if the lead singer arrives and demands a re-order on the fly.  

I am intrigued by MODX+ - will wait to learn more.  A VS would be a reason to jump in for me. 

[MotiDave]

On 8/31/2022 at 1:44 PM, Stokely said:

I can't hear clacking at gigs, and nobody else can either    We aren't a loud band but we are louder than that!   Granted some people use it at home, I get a little pickier about actions for home use...I'd want aftertouch for example.   

It's not a great action but I've gotten used to it and it's certainly not holding my talent back.  My talent is holding my talent back!

Odd, I have pretty large hands and never noticed the keys being smaller.  I do have my peeves about keyboards (wall wart, bad labeling and placement of connections would be two that irk me about the MODX) but that isn't one.

The only people that ever hear clacking are my family when I’m practicing with headphones in my office lol.  I play loud ass rock n roll - nobody can hear my keys when i play.  I got used to the action, it is what it is.  Adjust and play.  I love the power of MODX in a 16 lb board i can carry in a backpack and move around with basically one hand.  controls above left corner vs side allows it to be very short for a 76 keybed, also handy in tight dive bar stages. Its short and light enough to fly in an SKB TSA case as standard luggage, not oversize/overweight.  there are pros and cons to all choices.

 

I still have my Motif XF7 - i have used it for one gig since MODX came out.  It does have nicer action, feels more substantial and “sure” underneath me.  I think it sounded a tad “warmer” too - i think it has better D/A output circuits.  I prefer the convenience and gig-ease of the MODX7 though.  The UI is so much better and much easier schlep.

 

I have medium size hands - the slightly narrow keys are much more benefit than detriment for me.  I could see some guys out there with mammoth fat fingers not digging it, i guess Yamaha’s research concludes there are still more small-handed people buying keyboards.

 

Havent we all had this same discussion when MODX first came out?  lol … 

[MotiDave]

22 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

 I think the issue with the various keybeds, is an individual issue, related to the design causing variability in the problems from unit to unit. I suspect the GHS in the MODX I had, was caused by the hammers hitting plastic because the cushioning tape must have not been attached properly, where as someone else may never have had a problem. On the other hand my BHA on the Montage has been excellent, even though it is not my favourite keybed. (For some reason, I've always found Yamaha keybeds of all flavours to be a bit sluggish on the initial velocity range  when controlling external instruments, and have always had to apply some velocity offset in my DAW.)

Long ago while I was waiting for my pal at Guitar Center to work up my MODX7 deal, they had a MODX8 out on display and I sat down to play it.  It was practically unplayable - just horrible.  Like running in mud, slowest keybed i ever played.  I could only imagine it was either a bad unit or got beat to shit on the floor - Yamaha couldn’t have come out with a weighted keybed that bad.  I didnt want a weighted board so I didn’t dwell on it.

 

MODX7 - its fine for me, it is what it is.  I think its better than MOXF6, not as good as Motif XF7.

[AnotherScott]

57 minutes ago, MotiDave said:

Someone’s starting point is usually the insight to their path then taken.  I’ve been playing only Motif XF, MOXF and now MODX for the last 10 years, I find MODX extremely easy to do the things that were much more difficult on the other two.  Especially MOXF - menu diving to get to basic parameters was torture - if I hadn’t already learned Yamaha structure on the XF, I never would have found or learned it on MOXF.

 

I personally find other boards completely confusing - because I don’t have practical experience using or modifying their programs.  MODX/Montage is by far the best UI Yamaha has ever offered us.  

Yes, it's relative. MODX interface is much better than MOX/MOXF. It's better than Kurzweil PC4. It's not as good as Fantom-0 (which still could use some work).

 

(Yamaha has also made a notable move toward the immediacy of the Nord-style interface, in the YC and CP series... within those boards' limitations, you could also say those are the best UI Yamaha offers us... but it's a different category of board usage/interface.)

 

39 minutes ago, MotiDave said:

Long ago while I was waiting for my pal at Guitar Center to work up my MODX7 deal, they had a MODX8 out on display and I sat down to play it.  It was practically unplayable - just horrible.  Like running in mud, slowest keybed i ever played.  I could only imagine it was either a bad unit or got beat to shit on the floor - Yamaha couldn’t have come out with a weighted keybed that bad.

I was considering whether to get a MODX8 or MODX7 (or maybe even both!), and I went to GC and had a similar experience... no way I was buying the 8. Happily bought a 7. I think your description is appropriate, slow feeling, like mud. It hadn't beat beat on the floor because they had just gotten them in. I don't know whether they're all like that, that's the only 8 I ever played. And I've played GHS on other boards, but never one that felt like that. I still don't know whether there's variation in how MODX8s feel. I have played 88 Kross and Krome that have felt better or worse than others. I had originally thought there was simply a difference in the Kross vs. Krome versions, maybe due to how they mount, who knows (since the two ostensibly use the same kind of action)... but subsequently I even found better or worse feeling iterations of the same model. Unit-to-unit variation? Different production runs, perhaps sourced from different OEMs? Floor model abuse? I don't know. It's a mystery...

[DeltaJockey]

34 minutes ago, MotiDave said:

Long ago while I was waiting for my pal at Guitar Center to work up my MODX7 deal, they had a MODX8 out on display and I sat down to play it.  It was practically unplayable - just horrible.  Like running in mud, slowest keybed i ever played.  I could only imagine it was either a bad unit or got beat to shit on the floor - Yamaha couldn’t have come out with a weighted keybed that bad.  I didnt want a weighted board so I didn’t dwell on it.

 

MODX7 - its fine for me, it is what it is.  I think its better than MOXF6, not as good as Motif XF7.

I think if I was to buy a MODX+, it would be for the weight advantage giving me access to my Montage performances on the go. To that end I would consider a 76 too, or at the least a 61. In fact, my preferences overall would be: for 88 weighted - Montage8, and portability: Anything MODX+ except an 88

[Stokely]

Our gigs are shifting from the bars and clubs to more resort and "professional" type gigs...often with short windows for load-in and potential weather issues.  Tonights is a great example, we are doing an outdoor (under a high roof, which doesn't stop wind-blown rain) thing at an entertainment strip near the Orlando resorts.   Load-in starts at 7:15, we start at 8, someone is on the stage before us.  Having just the lightweight Modx and a single tier stand, and a smaller pedalboard if I want to do some surgery, means I can carry my rig in one trip from the car and set up in five minutes.  Also easier to pop a tarp over if the rain comes in, I'm considering getting a grill cover or similar that would protect the sides better without having to bungie down a tarp.

I do have a concern with these more pro gigs about having all eggs in one basket, not sure yet if I'll get a second light keyboard (which really isn't that much more work to set up) or have one in the car, or maybe go with a new ipad (which I was getting anyway) and simple controller.  

Going against all of that, I still would love that white Montage! 

[MotiDave]

17 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

I think if I was to buy a MODX+, it would be for the weight advantage giving me access to my Montage performances on the go. To that end I would consider a 76 too, or at the least a 61. In fact, my preferences overall would be: for 88 weighted - Montage8, and portability: Anything MODX+ except an 88

JMO and we all have them, but the 7 is too compact and light to ever consider the 6.  Easiest no-brainer ever imo.

[EscapeRocks]

My new 6Plus will be here Wednesday

[Jose EB5AGV]

11 minutes ago, EscapeRocks said:

My new 6Plus will be here Wednesday

 

Look for the hidden engine 😅