Fagen deconstructs Peg

[GovernorSilver]

Becker is not credited with playing on the track either.

 

I read an interview in which he stated that he didn't care if he did not play at all on a Steely Dan track.   He had a producer's mentality.  If he thought somebody else could play the guitar and/or bass parts better than himself for a track, he favored recording that other person's playing instead.   I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the 6 or 7 guitarists who attempted solos for this tune.   He sounds like the kind of producer who would have rejected his own playing.   

 

Steve Khan was credited for rhythm guitar.

 

For those who didn't watch the Aja documentary, Chuck Rainey credits Becker with writing the bass part, including a phrase that Rainey wouldn't have thought of himself, although of course Rainey deserves all the credit for sneaking in the slap bass stuff for the choruses.

 

He was reportedly surprised when Fagen chose his solo over others for "Snowbound" on Fagen's later solo album Kamakiriad.

[Docbop]

I was around the Village when Steely Dan was recording, but never got to go into one of the sessions.  What I found interesting and heard about it from the staff was Becker didn't like to record parts at the studio he prefered to do them at home.    But being just the beginning of the Tascam home/small studio gear they would have to do quick mixes and transfers from the 2" tape at the studio down to 1" tape for Becker to take home then bring back and have to transfer and sync up him parts he did at home.   He was do guitar and some bass parts at home.   I always thought it weird he didn't like doing overdubs in the studio. 

 

What was  crazy about the Steely Dan 2" masters is just how full every track was from end to end so mixing was a nightmare no computers yet for anything.    So a track that would have the guitar solo and guitar fills in between that guitar part might be percussion, keys, who knows what they used every inch of tape.   I remember on mixing session they was some many EQ and other changes because of the multiple things on tracks there was like five people around the console making EQ and other changes for each part of a track on the tape.    They would have to rehearse the mixes over and over to make sure everyone knew there job during the mix down to two track master.   Steely Dan's Gary Katz and Roger Nichols really pushed the envelope of recording tech for the time. 

[GovernorSilver]

According to this article - shame that Newsweek's website is so terrible - the other guitarists who attempted the "Peg" solo include:

 

Becker - Fagen liked it, Becker didn't, so into the circular file it went

Robben Ford

Elliot Randall

Rick Derringer

 

[Reezekeys]

Somewhat ironic to see Warren Bernhardt's name come up so much in this thread - he passed three days ago.

[CyberGene]

14 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Somewhat ironic to see Warren Bernhardt's name come up so much in this thread - he passed three days ago.

That's really sad 😢 May he rest in peace.

Ironical indeed. He died on Friday. The first comment about him on this thread was mine on Saturday and in that comment I also mentioned how I checked his Wikipedia page but I didn't notice anything about his passing. Checking the page's edit history reveals it was updated about his death on Sunday... 

[Mills Dude]

35 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Somewhat ironic to see Warren Bernhardt's name come up so much in this thread - he passed three days ago.

Wow, sad news about Warren.  I also checked out his Wikipedia before I posted to see if he was still around.   I regret that I never got to see him play live.  

[bill5]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:08 AM, Al Quinn said:

I remember seeing Larry Carlton in concert where he talked about Peg (actually he talked about a lot of his recordings which I found very interesting). It was a while ago but I recall him saying that he played a solo on Peg but his solo didn't make it onto the final recording.

There's a video on youtube where Fagen and Becker are talking about Aja generally and mention the guitar solos. I think the one used was the first one they tried out and just nothing else they tried sounded as good. I also remember a video of Michael McDonald talking about the backing vocals and when he first saw/tried the backing vocal itself, he thought basically it sounded terrible and didn't make any sense, like the notes were all wrong...then when he did it with the rest of the tracks he knew Fagen and Becker knew what they were doing and to just shaddup and sing.   

 

But anyway, those videos are great, I wish he'd done more. Thx for the link to the full video, it's on my list! 

[GovernorSilver]

I just learned there is a documentary on Amazon Prime called Hired Gun about pro musicians hired by big name acts like Billy Joel, Metallica, etc.  

 

Jay Graydon reportedly appears in the film.  His quote might rub some the wrong way, but I like it:

 

"You can make anything perfect in Pro Tools. But back then there was no help, man. Before Pro Tools, there were pros!"

[GovernorSilver]

A rare opportunity to hear Larry Carlton play on "Peg" live.   He apparently replaced Jon Herrington for the entire show, so it's also a rare opportunity to hear Carlton play rhythm guitar for someone else.   It's also reportedly the last-ever Steely Dan show with Walter Becker onstage

 

 

[bill5]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:06 PM, GovernorSilver said:

I just learned there is a documentary on Amazon Prime called Hired Gun about pro musicians hired by big name acts like Billy Joel, Metallica, etc.  

 

Jay Graydon reportedly appears in the film.  His quote might rub some the wrong way, but I like it:

 

"You can make anything perfect in Pro Tools. But back then there was no help, man. Before Pro Tools, there were pros!"

Pro Tools SUCKS ASS and is laughably overpriced. A classic case of "we were first, we're entrenched as the 'industry standard' so we can suck now and charge more for the privilege and the sheeple will still pay for it" 

 

[AROIOS]

Another proof I live in a simulation (or in the FB/Google Matrix, or just having an episode of Baader-Meinhof...):

Haven't seen discussions around the Aja sessions for years. Then there's this post, and a few days later this picture showed up on facebook.

[Stokely]

OMG that picture is hilarious, and all too accurate.   In fact, take it further, I've been known to get into exciting (to me) details of something in my keyboard rig with the rest of the band, and you can see their hardening polite smile as they start to glaze over.  The only comments I've ever gotten on my rig were about my Spider stand    One day the lead singer walks up before a show and asked if that was a new keyboard.  I replied, yeah it was new about 50-60 gigs ago!

 

[Adan]

Dan Fans can make for some of the most didactic, overbearing, and just plain boring social company.  And there's stiff competition for that title  (e.g., Deadheads, Phisheads, etc.).  Not saying they're all that way!  Just some.  It always strikes me as an odd juxtaposition because the members of these hallowed groups probably disapprove of all this losing-the-forest-for-the-trees behavior and probably just want to say to these people "get a life!"

[GovernorSilver]

My aunt turned me on to Steely Dan.  She's the biggest fan in the family by far.   We had quite the pleasant chat a few weeks ago, just catching up and talking about music.

 

Every music act has certain types of fans that can be fun to hang with, and certain other types who are not worth one's time (imo).

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, Adan said:

Dan Fans can make for some of the most didactic, overbearing, and just plain boring social company.  And there's stiff competition for that title  (e.g., Deadheads, Phisheads, etc.).  Not saying they're all that way!  Just some.  It always strikes me as an odd juxtaposition because the members of these hallowed groups probably disapprove of all this losing-the-forest-for-the-trees behavior and probably just want to say to these people "get a life!"

As someone who used to really like that band (The Dan), I can attest that the slavishness and stubbornness of their (aging) fanboys was a big factor in my turning cold on them. That and seeing them live. Hoo boy. If you like Steely Dan, do NOT go see them in concert. Just wait until Keith Carlock and Jim Beard show up in other bands and go see them instead.

 

There is still a slice of the recording engineer demographic that mixes everything in that same antiseptic highly separated way. I hate that sound now. I want to hear people in the room together.

I still think they created some awesome sounds, and still cite the lyric structure of the chorus of Deacon Blues as a paradigm of skill/craft. But how much "listen to that clarity on the high hat!!!" can you take before it makes tonight a terrible thing.

[GovernorSilver]

I've had a couple of guys get in my face with "I hate Steely Dan!".  All I did was casually mention a song or a musician - wasn't even trying to start anything.

 

They tend to be guys who think punk rock saved the world, and Velvet Underground is the best band ever.

 

 

[CyberGene]

As a non-American I had only known Steely Dan as a name. This topic made me listen to PEG and also a playlist with “essentials”. To me it’s nice music, certainly listenable but a bit dry and lifeless, not necessarily in the bad meaning of it. Rather academic “dry”. I imagine some well educated musicians who are jazzmen but decided to apply their knowledge to more commercial styles. But I miss the spontaneity and roughness of pure pop, rock and blues. Instead I get some canned result that is apparently extremely well made but that’s also its weakness since it comes a bit overdone and artificial. OK, that sounded like bashing and it’s not. I will certainly listen to them more. 

[GovernorSilver]

I used to prefer Royal Scam and later era Steely Dan.

 

Later, I developed a greater appreciation for their earlier work, particularly songs that include the pedal steel work of Jeff "Skunk" Baxter and rawer (compared to Denny Dias)  guitar work.  I'm not interested in selling/converting anyone but fwiw....

 

 

 

My favorite ever version of Bodhisattva, with the infamous intro.   This is about as raw as we'd ever hear "Mr. Steely Dan and Whatever" play

 

 

[AnotherScott]

 

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

As a non-American I had only known Steely Dan as a name. This topic made me listen to PEG and also a playlist with “essentials”. To me it’s nice music, certainly listenable but a bit dry and lifeless, not necessarily in the bad meaning of it. Rather academic “dry”. I imagine some well educated musicians who are jazzmen but decided to apply their knowledge to more commercial styles. But I miss the spontaneity and roughness of pure pop, rock and blues. Instead I get some canned result that is apparently extremely well made but that’s also its weakness since it comes a bit overdone and artificial. OK, that sounded like bashing and it’s not. I will certainly listen to them more. 

I recently posted in another thread how I've come to the realization that I don't like most music. And so contrary to popular opinion, that applies to Steely Dan, too. I like the first 14 seconds of Peg, I pretty much hate the rest of it.

 

That said, the second side of the first album ("Can't Buy A Thrill") is, to me, one of those "perfect sides." Songs 6 to 10, if you're looking at a Spotify page or whatever.

[Charleston]

 

 

[Morrissey]

1 hour ago, Charleston said:

Steely Crüe - "Look Again (2022)"

 

(btw, how do you post YT vids so they show here?)

 

That's entertaining.

 

I just paste the YT link in the text box and it automatically embeds the video.

[Charleston]

1 hour ago, Morrissey said:

 

That's entertaining.

 

I just paste the YT link in the text box and it automatically embeds the video.

Ahhh....okay, thanks!

Fixed it.

[Floyd Tatum]

I love Steely Dan and I've seen that Peg documentary, but that's hilarious!

 

Re Chuck Rainey 'sneaking in' the slap bass parts:  Yeah, I know he said that in the documentary, and I can't call him a liar, he was there and I wasn't.   Still, I find the concept of anybody 'sneaking' anything past the combined ears of Becker & Fagen hard to accept....