New “B” Rig – with similar (old) keyboards

[Moonglow]

With the recent threads about folks assembling downsized/backup rigs, I thought I’d join the fun!

 

I’ve been playing out with a Kronos 88 and a Jupter-80 for over ten years, but recently decided to develop a dedicated “B” rig. My primary motivation was having several gigs on the calendar (e.g., backyard house parties, beach parties) where I needed a rig that was considerably more lightweight, easier to transport, and less hassle to set-up and tear down. I’ve been using my long-time/A-rig with three cover bands for a number of years so another concern was maintaining a consistent sonic palette among the two rigs, as well as maximizing programming efficiency.

 

Below are pictures of the new B-rig and my A-rig for comparison purposes. I’ve had the Kronos 2-61 for a few years; the Jupiter-50 represents a fairly recent acquisition from brother Dave Doerfler. Not pictured, with the B-rig I either use our band’s monitoring system or my venerable Barbetta SE-32, the latter of which fits nicely in the passenger seat of my Honda Accord.

 

There are some substantial limitations/compromises involved with the B-rig. I mostly miss having a weighted action for piano, less overall keys, the Ventilator for organ programs, and the JP-80’s touch screen. I’m also not crazy about having the JP-50 on the upper tier but the same programs (many involving splits) are mapped to the same physical locations across the keys in both rigs, which helps with cognitive and muscle memory when switching back and forth between the two rigs. I occasionally have to use a couple of Setlist slots with the B-rig for songs where I previously only needed one (more real estate on the K-88).

 

I was tempted to pair my K-61 with a newer synth (e.g., Fantom-07) but needed to get the B-rig together somewhat quickly. Since both rigs largely contain the same patches (with the same names) and programming structure, I was able to get it up and running in just a few days.

 

[ABECK]

Great way to pair the rig down, without having a completely different rig.  Can you load your programs from the JP80 to the JP50?  IIRC, the engine is the same, but the multis on have 3 parts available.

[HammondDave]

And here is my new B-rig. Notation Launchpad 88 with and I{ad running Korg Module, MOOG Model D, and VB3m. 18 pounds. 
 

 

[eric]

Nice rig options and I love the Invisible stand!

 

[HammondDave]

9 minutes ago, eric said:

Nice rig options and I love the Invisible stand!

 

my rig levitates…. (Actually it’s sitting on top of my Mellotron MK300… not the lightest of keyboard stands)

[Moonglow]

6 hours ago, ABECK said:

Great way to pair the rig down, without having a completely different rig.  Can you load your programs from the JP80 to the JP50?  IIRC, the engine is the same, but the multis on have 3 parts available.

 

I didn't load any Jupiter-80 content directly into the Jupiter-50 although it seems theoretically possible, at least partially. In the JP-80, a “Registration” consists of an Upper part (a “Live Set” containing four “Tones”), a Lower part (a Live Set containing four Tones), a Solo part (containing one Tone), and a Percussion part (containing one Tone). In the JP-50, a Registration consists of an Upper part (containing four Tones), a Solo part (containing one Tone), and a “Percussion/Lower” part (containing one Tone). So it might be possible to load a JP-80 Registration into the JP-50, but there could be some stuff missing depending on what’s involved. The effects architecture for the Solo and Percussion/Lower parts in the JP-50 is also more limited than the JP-80’s Solo and Percussion parts…

 

My general process was to have the boards side by side, open a Registration in the JP-80, find the Live Set and/or Tone names involved, do a (computer) search of the JP-50's manual to identify where these items were located in the JP-50, and then construct a Registration with these components. Having the same Live Set and Tone names among the two boards was a huge time-saver (I compared the sound list manuals before I purchased the JP-50), otherwise I'd be scrolling through and auditioning sounds forever.

 

I hope this makes sense!

[D. Gauss]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:45 PM, HammondDave said:

And here is my new B-rig. Notation Launchpad 88 with and I{ad running Korg Module, MOOG Model D, and VB3m. 18 pounds. 
 

 

How are you switching between the apps?

[Morrissey]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:23 PM, eric said:

Nice rig options and I love the Invisible stand!

 

 

+1.  I gotta get me one of those Invisibles

[yannis D]

2 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

How are you switching between the apps?

Maybe he's using a host like AUM and he assigns each instrument (open in a different chanel within the AUM) to a different midi chanel of his keyboard.

I just guess.

This is what I do in this case 

Y 

 

 

 

 

[HammondDave]

22 hours ago, yannis D said:

Maybe he's using a host like AUM and he assigns each instrument (open in a different chanel within the AUM) to a different midi chanel of his keyboard.

I just guess.

This is what I do in this case 

Y 

 

 

 

 

I tried AUM but it does not co-exist with the Korg Module set list. If anyone knows how to link the two,  please share your knowledge. 
 

What I do is assign the apps to different MIDI channels when I need them and use the corresponding keyboard. My main sounds are the Mojo 61 (top manual MIDI 1), the Korg Module (bottom manual MIDI 2), and Moog Model D (top manual MIDI 1). Kind of clunky, but it works.
 

For my backup rig (Launchkey 88) I add the VB3m (MIDI 1), I assign the Korg Module (MIDI 2), and the Moog Model D (MIDI 3) and switch the MIDI channel sends on the keyboard. 

[yannis D]

1 hour ago, HammondDave said:

I tried AUM but it does not co-exist with the Korg Module set list. If anyone knows how to link the two,  please share your knowledge. 
 

What I do is assign the apps to different MIDI channels when I need them and use the corresponding keyboard. My main sounds are the Mojo 61 (top manual MIDI 1), the Korg Module (bottom manual MIDI 2), and Moog Model D (top manual MIDI 1). Kind of clunky, but it works.
 

For my backup rig (Launchkey 88) I add the VB3m (MIDI 1), I assign the Korg Module (MIDI 2), and the Moog Model D (MIDI 3) and switch the MIDI channel sends on the keyboard. 

AUM receives the Korg but you can't use the Korg's set list function, so you will have to use Korg module in multiple aliases in AUM if you want to layer sounds from the app etc.  

What you do is almost the same but you use each app as a standalone. If it works don't change it 

Y 

[drawback]

Moonglow, have you the same expansions, internal hardware upgrades and program locations in both Kronos (Kroni 🤔) ? Just wondering if there's a fairly simple way to transfer files from one Kronos to another. 

[stoken6]

29 minutes ago, drawback said:

Kroni 🤔

The board that continues to provide confusing plurals even after 11 years.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ProfD]

I think it's great that we've reach a point of being able to have redundant, er, two separate rigs.

 

However, I cannot help but think that a true B rig or downsized rig would be making any ONE of those KBs capable of covering a whole gig.

 

Brotha @Moonglow mentioned missing weighted action for piano parts. 

 

For example, the Kronos 88 by itself could be the B rig.  Use Setlist mode with splits and layers to program all of the sounds for a particular song. 

 

Going a step further, add a cheap, light-weight KB MIDI controller to the top-tier to trigger sounds from the Kronos 88.  

 

The same concept could be applied to the other ROMplers as well.  😎

[HammondDave]

You cats don’t get it… Brother Moonglow is a musician of advanced age (like me). The weighted Kronos is much too heavy for us to lug around. If he wants a good light weight weighted keyboard he has to consider the Numa Piano  X. It uses the new TP110 keyboard and the 88 key version weighs under 30 lbs. The 73 key version weighs 23 lbs. That’s my limit… I am sure Moonglow would appreciate that. 

[ProfD]

@HammondDave, we get it regarding the weight of the Kronos 88. 

 

However, Moonglow also wants to use the sounds from his existing rig. 

 

My recommendation is suggesting that Moon could use any one of his KBs plus a cheap KB MIDI controller to create a B rig and shed a few lbs from the schlep.  😎

[Moonglow]

4 hours ago, drawback said:

Moonglow, have you the same expansions, internal hardware upgrades and program locations in both Kronos (Kroni 🤔) ? Just wondering if there's a fairly simple way to transfer files from one Kronos to another. 

 

I do have the same expansions in both Kronos, almost. When I first acquired the K-88 from brother Allan Evett (we did some Kronos horse-trading) the first thing I did was load in brother Busch's Famous Synths and the K-Sound's Epic Grand. Then when I got the Kronos 2-61 about 4-5 years ago, it came with the Famous Synths already installed as factory presets so all I had to do was load in the Epic Grand, and then both boards were pretty much equal. The K2-61 does have some stuff that the K-88 does not, such as the Berlin Grand and some newer presets, but nothing that I find substantially lacking between the two boards, as I nearly exclusively use the Epic Grand for piano and largely haven't found myself needing any of the newer programs.

 

You can save information, including Programs and Combinations, to a USB stick and load it into another Kronos. However, I didn't do it this way! I always back up my work to a USB stick (and then to my computer), but have never been confident loading information into the Kronos. I especially find the process of loading samples to be rather convoluted, and each time I've done this (e.g., with the Epic Grand) it was not an entirely comfortable experience. Conversely, I am very confident in manipulating Programs and Combinations within the Kronos, so I chose to do it that way, one Combination at a time. Having programmed the Kronos for over ten years, I'm super quick. 

[Moonglow]

3 hours ago, HammondDave said:

You cats don’t get it… Brother Moonglow is a musician of advanced age (like me). The weighted Kronos is much too heavy for us to lug around. If he wants a good light weight weighted keyboard he has to consider the Numa Piano  X. It uses the new TP110 keyboard and the 88 key version weighs under 30 lbs. The 73 key version weighs 23 lbs. That’s my limit… I am sure Moonglow would appreciate that. 

 

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

@HammondDave, we get it regarding the weight of the Kronos 88. 

 

However, Moonglow also wants to use the sounds from his existing rig. 

 

My recommendation is suggesting that Moon could use any one of his KBs plus a cheap KB MIDI controller to create a B rig and shed a few lbs from the schlep.  😎

 

You guys rock! I've been eyeing the Numa Piano X...and using one of my boards with a MIDI controller is a viable alternative. If I went this route, I'd probably select the Kronos-61, absolutely love the Setlist feature.

[Tom Williams]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:39 PM, ProfD said:

My recommendation is suggesting that Moon could use any one of his KBs plus a cheap KB MIDI controller to create a B rig and shed a few lbs from the schlep

Exactly what I'm doing.  I've ditched the XP-5S (despite its being a wonderful board) and moved to an 88 key controller under a 76 key Kurzweil.  Bonus: one Quick Access button on the Kurzweil sets both keyboards up for the song.