I Suck

[jerrythek]

I studied this pretty deeply recently for a column that I'm not sure will even go into print. But the key to getting the Clav samples to speak correctly is the compression that he puts on the sound. He says so quite clearly in the video... Listen to it again, and hear how it sounds when he turns off the compressor... the quick release of the compressor adds some thwack to the note release that seems to help.

 

 

1 hour ago, funkyhammond said:

 

That's a good point and the reason why I do the main riff with my own version of embellishments. If I was using something better than Nord Electros live, I might try a slightly more authentic version.

 

The Scarbee clav sample in that Vulf video sounds quite good for doing rhythmic ghost notes. Anyone have experience with other clav sound libraries that can do an equally good job with those types of percussive ghost notes/slaps without sounding the pitches?  

 

[Morrissey]

4 hours ago, Bobbo Fett said:

STILLLLLLLL waitin'.......

 

 

 

[funkyhammond]

24 minutes ago, jerrythek said:

I studied this pretty deeply recently for a column that I'm not sure will even go into print. But the key to getting the Clav samples to speak correctly is the compression that he puts on the sound. He says so quite clearly in the video...

 

I did watch the video and noticed that remark. The demo of turning the compressor off was very brief, though, and difficult to compare. A proper A/B of the main clav part would have helped. I'll have to try messing with compression the next time I decide to actually work on this tune. But one thing I will say is that the couple of times that I have had an opportunity to mess around on a real clav, it just felt more like a rhythm instrument. Some combination of the action and response is very difficult to capture with a sample triggered from a MIDI keyboard. A real clav just begs to be played rhythmically.

[ProfD]

11 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

But one thing I will say is that the couple of times that I have had an opportunity to mess around on a real clav, it just felt more like a rhythm instrument. Some combination of the action and response is very difficult to capture with a sample triggered from a MIDI keyboard. A real clav just begs to be played rhythmically.

No doubt about it.

 

IMO, a real clav or similar sound should not be approached like an acoustic or electric piano unless one is going for a harpsichord flavor.😁😎

[D. Gauss]

fwiw, these files have been out there for many years now and it's crazy fun to go through everything:

 

[jerrythek]

There's so much talk about how many clav tracks were on the tune... if you listen to the stems carefully you'll hear that there are 2 different parts. Each of those were run into different amps and effects for two other mixes, and then all blended together. So each part has three different sonic treatments, for a total of 6 tracks. Or maybe 3 other mixes for a total of 8. But there are only two distinctly played parts. The slapback echo/delays on some of the treatments add to the thickness of the sound...

 

Live, you need to get the basic melody correct... how much other slapping and extra funk notes you add is up to you. First attachment is the melody we hear. The second is how Vulfpeck plays it. The third is closer to how Stevie plays it live.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jerrythek]

Here's the stems for the main part, separate, and then mixed together. You do hear some bleed from the 2nd part come in halfway through...

 

[jerrythek]

For sure... the high trigger point of a Clav and the feel of the keyboard allows you to play in a way that no MIDI triggering keyboard will allow.

 

6 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

 But one thing I will say is that the couple of times that I have had an opportunity to mess around on a real clav, it just felt more like a rhythm instrument. Some combination of the action and response is very difficult to capture with a sample triggered from a MIDI keyboard. A real clav just begs to be played rhythmically.

 

 

 

[Moonglow]

On 6/14/2022 at 11:36 AM, CEB said:

I suck.

 

My advice would be to keep trying until you suckceed.

         

   

[Doerfler]

Moonglow FTW 

[David Emm]

Hmph, he thinks HE sucks. I had to face the fact that I am too brain-damaged to master a Wavestate!

 

Stevie no doubt felt the HELL out of those licks. The Clav spoke to him, very obviously. More than any other synths, my Korgs have felt like that. They still draw more of that good ol' Inner Me out for showtime. The NOTES are grabbing me at a higher level now and as much as I might enjoy the more serious rhythmic elements, I can't see laboring over that synth form again. I soaked up Dr. Metlay's detailed walk-through and concluded that he Wavestate's brain has the superior CPU. 

 

On topic, I had a friend who had a friend who had a trust-fund baby pal. He not only had numerous synths, a full B-3 rig and a Steinway grand, he owned a Baldwin Electric Harpsichord. That thing tickled the bleep out of me. Its one of the reasons I can grasp the various praises or condemnations of new instruments.

[CEB]

For one of my goofy silly post this thread has a lot of real cool stuff in it.

[GovernorSilver]

2 hours ago, David Emm said:

Hmph, he thinks HE sucks. I had to face the fact that I am too brain-damaged to master a Wavestate!

 

 

At least you're trying to master it.

 

I bought preset packs instead.   Judge away.

 

Good luck, CEB

[harmonizer]

I think this song is mostly about the syncopated rhythms playing off against each other, and that any chords rendered are less important.

The noises don't absolutely need to be a clav, but they need to have pluck, and they need to have the right syncopated rhythms.

Is there at least one guitarist in your band? What is he or she doing on this song?

 

I was just trying to figure out how to assign out noises for this song to the band members in our 7-piece covers band.

We have two guitarists, and our two keyboard players are also our 2 horn players, so we're busy (I'm the sax player).

The title of this thread is incorrect. But I really do suck at keys, so the fact that I can't play keys on this song is not much of a loss.

Our solo guitarist sucks at chords, but has already proven he can play the plucky synth part for "I Wish" on his guitar.

So on this song I am assigning him a similar thing that is all plucking, with lots of 16th notes, many of them not on a 8th downbeat.

Then I've got a second guitar part with fewer plucking notes but which includes some chords, which would go to our rhythm guitarist.

We will add a little more clav/pluck sounds by me pressing a PK-5a footpedal to fire off the low E on 1, and an E one octave up on the "and" of 2.

 

Our lead vocalist is female so we can raise the key a 1/2 step without a problem.

The song's going up a 1/2 step to E, so that our guitarists get lots of open strings, and so that low E for the (4-string) bass player and for our solo guitarist

can be played on their guitars without tuning down.

I have not presented this idea to our band yet, but I think it should work.

The visual of us having an actual 2-part horn section will help us.

 

For you, I think this gets back to what is your guitar player doing, and would they be willing to do EXACTLY what you told them to do, if you assigned a very specific pluck part to them?

 

[MathOfInsects]

I will say that the isolated tracks show a much more swingy and groovy approach to the ends of the phrases than I usually use, and I can't wait to try it out the "better" way on a gig now.

[funkyhammond]

A bit off topic. It was mentioned earlier in this thread about how Stevie had written Superstition for Jeff Beck. I didn't know that Stevie felt bad and gave Beck a second tune. Interesting article:

 

Jeff Beck: “Stevie gave me Cause We’ve Ended As Lovers as an apology for releasing Superstition first"