OT - Bass solo... yes. Bass Solo Album.....not so much

[Bif_]

Bass solos can be quite nice, certainly many virtuoso bass players out there that can deliver. Deep respect for the way that instrument has been elevated in recent years. Many great players (Vic Wooten, Henrik Linder, Abraham Laborial, Brian Bromberg) are just a few that come to my mind. 

 

Listening to Spotify (Jazz stuff) and hear a fair amount of bass solo albums. Kind of neat, but whenever they start doubling their melody line with a sax, horns, piano, synth, etc., it starts to irritate me. If the bass can't stand as a solo instrument for bulk of the album, then don't go down that road. 

 

I really like Briam Bromberg's album "Bassically Speaking". He really carries the songs from start to finish, and I recall also has some bass instruments that function better in a higher solo register. There's probably othe bass solo albums that are great, but there seems to be an abundance of players that need support for their melodic lines. 

[Old No7]

My only thought on this is -- Jeff Berlin, who does awesome bass solo on one of the Bill Bruford albums.

 

That solo -- first hear over 40 years ago -- changed my perception of what a bass solo "could be".

 

I'll have to listen again...  (after i find it...)

 

Old No7

[Mark Zeger]

For my money, it starts (and possibly ends) with Jaco playing “Donna Lee”. It’s arguably the most audacious solo bass recording ever. Let’s take a twisting Bird head that EVERYONE knows and present it in a way no one dared. Accompanied only by congas, Jaco inventively plays the head then blows a few choruses without the safety net of anyone comping.

 

Then just for fun, let’s make it the opening track on a debut album as a leader. While we’re at it, let’s just use a black & white headshot for the cover. 

And then there’s the beautiful solo ballad “Portrait Of Tracy”. 

 

Jaco had balls. Big, solid brass ones. 

Yeah, I know it’s easy to talk about Jaco on this topic. But I think of Wynton Marsalis’ quote about Louis Armstrong (which I may not have verbatim here): “Even if you had the words to say how great he was, you couldn’t express how great he was.”

 

[16251]

Who doesn't love Jaco, but I always dig Jimmy Haslip when I hear him.

 

And if we're talking acoustic, it all about Paul Chambers. I have many of his albums as a leader and his contributions on my favorite pianist albums.

[Mark Zeger]

Edgar Meyer plays so much bass. 
 

 

[CyberGene]

Not sure how politically (in)correct this is but bass should play bass. No solo albums, please!

[KuruPrionz]

40 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Not sure how politically (in)correct this is but bass should play bass. No solo albums, please!

If only it were that simple. It's not. I'm not sure any of the following did an entire solo bass album but I don't think that is the same as "bass should play bass". 

Bass is a tool, some can play "bass" and some can create magic, the instrument does not prevent that. 

 

Charles (aka Charlie) Mingus - band leader and bassist, great composer and great soloist. 

Jaco Pastoriouus, genius bassistl I first heard on Joni Mitchell's Hejira - he was great but I'm guessing Joni had to tell him to play like Jaco for Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. 

Fantastic bass work in a new world, Joni Mitchell gets to stand tall on her own mountain but Jaco just looked across the valley from the same elevation (or higher). 

 

I got to see John Entwhistle with The Who and Chris Squire with Yes and neither of them was playing bass the way anybody else played bass, both were incredible. 

That doesn't mean everybody is great, some folks need to more or less stay in their lane. 

[CyberGene]

This is probably more for the other thread about keyboardists playing bass notes along with the bassist but I've had a bassist once who just refused playing what was expected from him and the harmonies didn't sound right since I played rootless (it was a jazz/fusion band) and he played anything else but the root. Ultimately I had to play root notes and leave him "solo" all the time for a week and then we "fired" him. I guess there are many talented folks who can create a solo album with just a bass guitar and I actually know one local guy who overdubbed himself with a lot of wonderful bass guitars to create an OK-ish (smoothish) jazz album which I would never listen to but is still something that deserves respect for the sheer creativity and virtuosity. But outside of those super talented bassist virtuoso influencers, bass should play bass 😀 As simple as that.

[GovernorSilver]

A Show of Hands - Victor Wooten

 

Great solo album by a bass player.

[bjosko]

A bass is not only a bass …

Sometimes it is used as an guitar or something. 
So many great bass players out there, but to me the most important thing is that they keep the groove and key. Be One of the things my ears are missing when I am trying to listen to modern jazz with my rock/blues ears. 
This one popped up in my YouTube feed some time ago

 

 

[CyberGene]

So, is it safe to say there are many guitarists who picked the bass because they liked how it sounds when played in the upper registers and they never intended to play root notes in the first place, but rather play guitar-like solos, rhythm guitar parts, etc? It's just a bad taste that the instrument is called bass because that's certainly not inclusive and speaks more of the bigoted nature of the one who expresses the assumption a bass is a music function in harmony rather than self-proclaimed identity with no boundaries? 😀

[GRollins]

I play all up and down the neck. I often play open notes as a fundamental/drone and play melodies above that.

 

Jaco was like Hendrix. There are other guitarists, and there was Hendrix. He was unapproachable. Jaco, for all the fact that there have been scads of imitators, was Jaco. Period. Otherworldly.

 

Victor Wooten, et. al. bring different things to the table. Stu Hamm, for example, did a bass solo album. He's a phenomenal technical player, but doesn't have the "feel" to carry a solo bass album. It fell flat for me. I hate to say that because I admire his playing, otherwise.

 

Grey

[KuruPrionz]

On 4/29/2022 at 2:41 AM, CyberGene said:

So, is it safe to say there are many guitarists who picked the bass because they liked how it sounds when played in the upper registers and they never intended to play root notes in the first place, but rather play guitar-like solos, rhythm guitar parts, etc? It's just a bad taste that the instrument is called bass because that's certainly not inclusive and speaks more of the bigoted nature of the one who expresses the assumption a bass is a music function in harmony rather than self-proclaimed identity with no boundaries? 😀

You can say what you want. Im OK with that. 
I profoundly disagree with your assessment, it's an attempt to simplify that which will not be simplified. 

 

All musical instruments are made to play music. Musicians play the music they play on the instruments that inspire them. It really is that simple and it will not change, now or ever. I am grateful for those who go beyond the boundaries of what is "supposed to be" their position in life.

 

"Stay in your lane" only applies in the limited sense that one might personally choose a musician based on how they fit into a particular limited perspective. So you probably would not hire Kinga Glyk to play in a country rock band and honestly, neither would I. I wouldn't hire Herbie Hancock to play in that same country rock band either, or Elivn Jones. I am grateful for creative music, if everybody adhered to your limited perspective I would probably go back to drawing and painting.

 

Cross pollenate, open your mind and fresh ideas may come to you. The infinite possibilites is where the fun happens. Cheers, Kuru

[Jonathan Hughes]

Disclaimer: I’m bass player who solos (melodically) on pretty much all the songs on the records I make (because they’re my records, and, I’m good).

 

I’m not really interested in listening to an entire album of any solo instrument (even piano). A song here and there is okay, but there’s just not enough variation in texture to capture my attention for an entire album. So you won’t get any argument from me that a bass (or flute, or trumpet, or violin, or hi hat, etc.) solo album isn’t that appealing. But let’s address a few things:

 

“If the bass can't stand as a solo instrument for bulk of the album, then don't go down that road. “

 

No bass player is thinking “boy, my instrument sounds weak — I need someone to play the melody with me”. The reason they have someone play the melody along with them is that they like the sound. Miles Davis certainly didn’t think “ my muted trumpet sounds so weak! What can I do? My only choice is to double my melodies with a saxophone. Get Coltrane in here! Stat!”

 

 

“Not sure how politically (in)correct this is but bass should play bass.”

 

It’s neither "politically correct" or incorrect. It’s just a boring, narrow-minded thought. Bass players who are soloing are indeed playing bass. Maybe not your definition of “bass”, but thankfully, unless you’re leading the band, this kind of thinking has no bearing on anything. Also, I assume that this line of thinking also applies to tuba players in Dixieland bands? Good luck telling those guys that what they’re doing when they solo is “not playing the tuba”.

 

Of course, there are definitely a lot of bass players who play “stunt bass” solos. They get one solo per show and feel the need to show off and play a catalog of different techniques and ideas. Even worse is when everyone else drops out and the bass player has no harmonic context for their solo (or they choose to ignore it). I have little interest in hearing these kind of solos, no matter how technically impressive some of the techniques may be. (The same thought applies to drum solos where the everyone drops out and the drummer plays outside of the form and/or tempo of the song). Some of this is due to these players jumping on their one opportunity to show off, but I think a lot of it could be alleviated by giving these players more opportunity  to solo so they don’t feel the need to throw everything they know into 60 seconds. (and yes, self control would also alleviate the need to show off).

 

 

“But outside of those super talented bassist virtuoso influencers, bass should play bass 😀 As simple as that.”

 

Ugh. Here we go again. Aren’t there some clouds you can shake your fist at?

 

It sounds like you played with one bad bass player and base your entire worldview of bass on that experience. I see lots of complaining on talkbass.com about drummers and guitarists, so you’re not unique in complaining about players of another instrument. My feeling is that whenever I hear musicians complain about players of another instrument as a group, it’s because they (the complainer) play with shitty players. They need to raise their standards (or practice so they get to the point where they can play with better players). In short, listening to and playing with better players will open up your mind to more possibilities for the instruments they play.

 

There are plenty of virtuoso bass players who are not “influencers” (I’m using that term (like I assume you are) in the current social media definition, as these players are certainly influential, albeit not household names) who can hold down a groove AND solo circles around pretty much anyone. Listen to Rich Brown or Mike Pope or Dane Alderson or Tony Grey. (note that none of these players has put out a “bass solo album”.)

 

 

“So, is it safe to say there are many guitarists who picked the bass because they liked how it sounds when played in the upper registers and they never intended to play root notes in the first place, but rather play guitar-like solos, rhythm guitar parts, etc?”

 

No, it’s not safe to say that. Maybe there are some, but all the great bass players I know of started as bass players and didn’t limit themselves or their role to a 50 year old definition of what a bass player is.

 

I majored in English and I literally have no idea what you’re trying to say in the next sentence.

 

So to recap:

• Open your mind

• Don’t group all people of a certain type under the same umbrella

• Don’t base your view of a group of people on a bad experience with one member of that group

 

(By the way, these are rules that you should follow throughout life — not just when dealing with or judging musicians.)

 

• Don’t gatekeep

• Listen to and play with new and better musicians

• Practice

 

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Hughes said:

I majored in English and I literally have no idea what you’re trying to say in the next sentence.

Apologies, English is not my native language, started learning it too late in my life and still struggling to express all my thoughts, my wife is an English teacher and she often laughs at my bad attempts 🤣 So, I tried to make a veiled parallel to the Woke but for some reason whenever I post something about the Woke on US forums I get my posts deleted… Apparently it’s a hot topic, so I stop. 
 

Maybe my experience is biased by my numerous problems and struggles finding a proper bassist (the way I understand it) for years. Haven’t had problems with other musicians. But maybe that was just bad luck. 
 

Apologies to any bassists offended by my words. I tend to speak my mind without thinking first and then I often got criticized in return that I am narrow minded. If we suppose people are not saying it to return the insult (I haven’t said it to insult them but perhaps they felt that way), then maybe I’m just narrow minded after all 😕 

[Mark Zeger]

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