Country fiddle sound or sample

[Ledbetter]

 Hello,

 

I recently joined a great new band. The leader is an experienced singer/guitarist and the band has a large local following and works as much as it wants. Their last keyboard player was much revered, can’t play anymore due to head injuries sustained in a bicycle accident.

 

the leader insists that I produce a country fiddle sound for “East of Houston, West of Baton Rouge.” I’m playing a Nord Stage 3 and a Nord Electro 5D. He has played the samples I have found through his phone and says they sound like bagpipes. One was a sound made by a member of the Nord Users Forum and one was the best I could find in Nord’s online sound library. On top of this he expects me to simultaneously play an accordion sound. It’s a Cajun kinda song. This is, I think, impossible due to the need to use the left hand on the pitch bender control to get the fiddle slides characteristic of the style.

 

Anyone know of or have any fiddle samples I could work with? I’m thinking of letting him know as a hard fact that he can have fiddle and accordion, but not simultaneously. Any advice would be appreciated. A friend warned me the bandleader is “hard to work with” but I’d like to keep the gig.

 

Many thanks for any help or advice.

 

Mike L.

 

 

[marczellm]

For the bends, if you weren't playing Nords but some more programmable rompler, I'd suggest velocity switching between a straight note normally and a pitch bent note when you hit the key harder.

[kaptainkeys]

7 hours ago, Ledbetter said:

This is, I think, impossible due to the need to use the left hand on the pitch bender control to get the fiddle slides characteristic of the style.

Not sure if you can do this on the Nords, but maybe you could set up an expression pedal to do the pitch bend and do the bending with your feet.

[TommyRude]

I feel your pain with attempting to play pitch bends simultaneously with other necessary parts.  Another solution would be to program/sample the pitch bend parts so you can play them with one hand.  It's not the ideal solution (the ideal solution would be having 4 arms/hands), but it's a way to accomplish the goal.  If you get it right and organize the trigger timing to sound natural, it should sound fine, you will make your key constituent happy, all will be well.  (GotKey's idea would work as well)

[Reezekeys]

Did you try to find out how the previous keyboard player covered this?

[wineandkeyz]

14 hours ago, Ledbetter said:

 On top of this he expects me to simultaneously play an accordion sound. It’s a Cajun kinda song. This is, I think, impossible due to the need to use the left hand on the pitch bender control to get the fiddle slides characteristic of the style.

 

 

I can't help you as far as getting a fiddle tone for your your Nords, but I gave the song a listen and it seems like the fiddle and accordion parts alternate -- when one is featured the other drops out. If I was trying to cover it, I'd switch back and forth between the parts.

 

 

[allan_evett]

Is this a tribute act, i.e., trying to nail the exact sound of Chris Gaffney's band - and similar acts, live?  Or is it a club, cover band who's purpose is to keep the crowd happy and dancing?

If it's the later, I don't at all get the stress put on you of playing two, different and often signature parts (including authentic, fiddle-style pitch bends on one). I've mined the programming abilities of my Nord Stage 3 deeply, and even the best violin and fiddle tones fall a bit short. The closest I've gotten to that sound was from a Roland SN patch (JP-50, and now Fantom 7). That one works well for up-tempo parts (e.g., Cowgirls Don't Cry, and the song above); but it's just passable for ballads, such as Amarillo. Still, even close-to-authentic fiddle is difficult to pull off with a keyboard; not only is the sound itself tough to get right, but the inflections of a string player aren't there.

For a cover band I'd likely work up a kickin' accordion part that also includes strong references to what the fiddle is doing.  But the leader is the boss, and can request what he wants. So, alternating fiddle and accordion parts sounds like what you should attempt.  As others have said here, I'm curious as to how the prior keyboardist pulled this song off.

[Ledbetter]

The other key guy is not available to ask. I’m still using the Electro 4 & 5. I just got the Stage 3 three days ago, it may be possible to use aftertouch or control pedal to do the bending. I’m still reading the manual. Alternating the sounds is going to be a must. If he doesn’t like the simple, I’ll adjust the eq and resonance until I get as close as I can. Thanks for helping a brother out, much appreciated.

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, wineandkeyz said:

I can't help you as far as getting a fiddle tone for your your Nords, but I gave the song a listen and it seems like the fiddle and accordion parts alternate -- when one is featured the other drops out. If I was trying to cover it, I'd switch back and forth between the parts.

 

I just got to the hook (I think!) at 1:05 and it sure sounds like the fiddle & accordion are both playing some very distinctive parts, simultaneously.

 

Even if it was playable, imo it's a tall order for any normal workstation synth or keyboard, soundwise (maybe not the accordion, but the fiddle for sure). Did this band provide you with any live recordings of this song featuring the previous keyboard player? It might be interesting - and instructive - to see how close he got!

[Steve Nathan]

I've not heard anything close on a dedicated board. Terry at Indiginus is the closest I've found. 

https://www.indiginus.com/the-fiddle

 

What I would do is tell the singer you will do your best, but it would help if he sang the lead and the harmonies at the same time.  

[The Real MC]

A convincing fiddle is hard.  One of the challenges is the attack transient, the sound of the bow setting the string in motion with rosin.  I've decades of sound design experience but have yet to figure out that one.  Sawing a fiddle with that transient is a cool effect.  Sample libraries with violins don't sound the same.

 

Another challenge is playing two notes while pitch bending only one of them, and the note that is the open string which isn't modulated.  That takes practice.

 

As for timbre, I've heard something close from one of the presets of my old Oberheim OBSX.  The old Oberheim SEM filter seems to fit this role well.  

 

Hard but not impossible.  Now emulating the expression of a saxophone - impossible on a keyboard.

[o0Ampy0o]

3 hours ago, Steve Nathan said:

I've not heard anything close on a dedicated board. Terry at Indiginus is the closest I've found. 

https://www.indiginus.com/the-fiddle

 

What I would do is tell the singer you will do your best, but it would help if he sang the lead and the harmonies at the same time.  

 

...while riding a unicycle!

[allan_evett]

17 hours ago, The Real MC said:

 

 

 

 

[allan_evett]

17 hours ago, The Real MC said:

 

 

Another challenge is playing two notes while pitch bending only one of them, and the note that is the open string which isn't modulated.  That takes practice.

 

 

Kurzweil keyboards have been able to do this for a while now. But, like Nord instruments, their plucked string sounds are sample-based.  Sampled-based sounds will work, given enough memory and programming craft; but that's software-only right now (The Fiddle, the full Kontakt instrument that Steve Nathan just noted) The only hardware instruments I've heard that even gets in the park are Rolands that have SuperNatural modeled string tones on-board; the articulations are quite a step up from a ROMpler. I used a couple of modified SN electric violin Programs in my Jupiter-50 with a busy country act in Denver. Those were passable to above-average, depending on the song. Though they fell quite 'flat' when I subbed in with a Celtic act - which already had a superb violinist. I tried a few harmony lines with her; she was not impressed, at all 

[Tom Williams]

I've only had one keyboard on which the violin fooled a fiddler listening in the back room: Roland Ax-Synth keytar.  It had a SuperNatural violin program, which analyzed the timing between notes in some sort of AI mode and determined whether I was doing single (allowing trills and legato passages without re-striking the sample start) or double-stop.  End result was amazingly playable on country tunes. 

 

When I upgraded to the Ax-Edge, I gained many other expressive capabilities but lost that violin, and I still miss it terribly.  I'd love to get a SuperNatural rack module for that voice alone.

[Ledbetter]

1 hour ago, Tom Williams said:

I've only had one keyboard on which the violin fooled a fiddler listening in the back room: Roland Ax-Synth keytar.  It had a SuperNatural violin program, which analyzed the timing between notes in some sort of AI mode and determined whether I was doing single (allowing trills and legato passages without re-striking the sample start) or double-stop.  End result was amazingly playable on country tunes. 

 

When I upgraded to the Ax-Edge, I gained many other expressive capabilities but lost that violin, and I still miss it terribly.  I'd love to get a SuperNatural rack module for that voice alone.

Its funny you posted this, because I was just today thinking I should fire up my Roland Lucian AX-09 which has some surprisingly good sounds. Guitarists uniformly hate the “form factor” though. I could hide on the bottom tier of the stand. Thanks for the help everyone.