New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[RandyFF]

18 hours ago, hrestov said:

The acoustic modelling of acoustic Piano is not Simple. The use only one layer of sample, at fortissimo volume, and then with the modelling they get the p,  the po, and other dynamics. 
 

like the old gem rpx I thing. 

 What?  Are you saying the Numa X only has 1 sample layer for the pianos?  That doesn’t sound right- are you getting this info from Studiologic? I heard they only use modeling for things like string resonance.

 

AFAIK, Roland modeled pianos use no samples.

[AnotherScott]

29 minutes ago, RandyFF said:

AFAIK, Roland modeled pianos use no samples.

Their V-Piano modeling uses no samples, while their SuperNATURAL modeled pianos use a combination of samples and modeling. (I did see a reference to one particular SN piano not using samples--maybe FP-90?--but I don't think I've seen that confirmed.)

[hrestov]

From what I understand it is a physical modelling,  but instead of starting from a raw waveform like pianoteq, they start from a sample of piano sound, and then they obtain the rest of the sound with modelling.
Here It's a bit explained: link  It's in italian language, I don't know if there is the automathic translation.

[b3plyr]

12 hours ago, hrestov said:

From what I understand it is a physical modelling,  but instead of starting from a raw waveform like pianoteq, they start from a sample of piano sound, and then they obtain the rest of the sound with modelling.
Here It's a bit explained: link  It's in italian language, I don't know if there is the automathic translation.

Not quite correct. I believe I explained this earlier in this thread. The APs are multi samples. Then, modeling is applied for resonance, etc. The EPs are true and full physical modeling. Not only did Studiologic tell me this but I have 2 Numa Xs that confirm the multi samples. 

[Vertigo1]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:16 AM, miden said:

If and when it EVER arrives down under, I'll seriously consider it as well...just need to sort if I can work without the two audio outs. I was a big fan of the SL88 series...so it would be a major step up I think.

The X 73 is due to arrive this month (July) - here in Australia; impatiently anticipating delivery my long awaited order!! 

[b3plyr]

Just received two magnetic music racks for the Numa X. They are great! Finally, I do not have to take a music stand. The magnetic music racks are well built and hold well with the magnets. And you can further attach the mounts with build in latch screws. Highly recommended. BTY, I have an iPad Pro sitting on mine.

[DeltaJockey]

I would love to buy this and the laptop shelf, but sadly they've just never been available here, and no timeline on when they will be. I wonder if I can find a retailer overseas who will ship to Australia.

[Kentkeys]

4 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

I would love to buy this and the laptop shelf, but sadly they've just never been available here, and no timeline on when they will be. I wonder if I can find a retailer overseas who will ship to Australia.

I think you’ll find that Thomann ships worldwide. It won’t necessarily be cheap, though. (If you bought both the music stand and the computer plate, it might qualify for free shipping, but that may only apply in Europe.)

[hrestov]

Gianni Giudici in the video I Linked says:

“Create the sound starting from one engine that create the “corda”, the hammer, and reproduce all the timbral trend, regarding the dynamic, with a modelling process”

 

It’s not simply to traduce and understand…
 

And then he says that with this method all the samples of the 15 acoustic piano take less than 500mb. 

[CyberGene]

I also watched that video some time ago with an automatic translation from Italian and that was my understanding too. Also, as far as I know, they acquired some of the GEM assets/patents and/or engineers. Giani Giudici himself was a product manager for GEM and was presenting the ProMega if I remember correctly. With all that in mind, it's kind of safe to assume the sound engine in the Numa X is indeed similar to the GEM which in turn has been described in a similar way: it's a clever way to compress piano samples, so that they take less wave space by somehow analyzing the spectral content and detecting the differences between the different velocity layers which would allow to combine everything in a single "super" sample layer (that's my own term) that contains enough data to be used for both soft and loud timbres through various spectral manipulations like e.g. adding/removing/enveloping harmonics?

[Kentkeys]

There’s an interesting recent YouTube video about the Numa X Piano 88 which is highly critical of some aspects of the instrument, including some of its samples and the use of a knob to select sounds rather than buttons. The YouTuber, Fausto Ferreira, also finds the keys on that Numa model too noisy.

 

With my cloth ears, I can hardly notice some of the things he is complaining about.

 

He also has positive things to say, including the ease of playing glissandos, and some of the internal sounds including the Vintage Grand which he describes as a “gem” and suggests some settings to bring out its best. 

 

He admits that he is picky, but adds that he enjoys playing the keyboard, especially on stage. And (spoiler alert) in the end he decides that, because of its low weight, built-in mixer and other characteristics (including the ease of plugging in an iPad) is “probably the best stage MIDI controller”.

 

Worth a watch.

 

 

 

 

[RandyFF]

Warranty coverage in the United States? Does it just get referred to a local shop?  And it’s for two years? That sounds good.

 

I was told by an eBay dealer that the warranty starts from the date of the original purchase, which means the warranty is transferable? You just need to show the date of the original purchase?

 

I am very close to succumbing to my gas for the X73, but would not want to buy used if that meant I had no warranty. It is a fairly new board after all.

 

I’ve got the Kawai ES 920, and while I love it, even 37.5 pounds plus a soft case is getting to be a bit much for me these days, and I feel frustrated with only two voices and 37 sounds to work with.

 

It sounds like the Numa is designed well to be a very competent controller board, which would make up for any deficiencies in sounds, and by the sound of the reaction most people have had to the TP 110, I’m guessing I would get on with the action. Just wish it had great speakers like the ES 920.

 

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, RandyFF said:

most people have had to the TP 110, I’m guessing I would get on with the action

 

It's definitely a lot "flightier" than the ES920! From my experience with the ES920, its action is a lot firmer and feels more substantial than the X. X is still a good all-rounder key action though.

[RandyFF]

17 hours ago, CHarrell said:

 

It's definitely a lot "flightier" than the ES920! From my experience with the ES920, its action is a lot firmer and feels more substantial than the X. X is still a good all-rounder key action though.

I’m an outlier with the ES920- I actually prefer the much lighter action of the ES110/520, in fact those actions are my all-time favorites- light, super fast, supremely expressive and dynamic, so the X73 might suit me well.

 

It’s always a trade-off.  Things I love about the ES920:

- the pianos and acoustic bass are my absolute favorites, the piano is so warm and well-balanced and the acoustic bass inspires confidence

- the loud and excellent speakers negate the need for more equipment in many situations

 

What I hope I’ll gain with the X73:

- critically lighter weight- 30 pounds with a case is my new desired max weight limit

- 4-channel mixer as well as iPad integration that would make having new voices seamless, and a place on the top panel for one! This comes the closest I’ve seen to the ideal of having an iPad being a part of the keyboard  

- substantially more onboard sounds, as well as more/better EPs, as well as 4 voices at once vs 2

- PB/MW as well as AT as well as assignable knobs as well as 3 pedal inputs vs 2

- Librarian/editor for adding new sounds and managing/editing? existing

 

 

 

The original desire for the ES920 was to have a very simple piano board that excelled at piano for the sound and touch, so that I’d focus on playing/practicing and not spending considerable time learning/setting up the board.

 

But I’ve found the limitations of only 2 voices, and only 38 onboard sounds to be too limiting- my ideal would be a mash-up of the MP7SE and ES920: 4 voice stage piano with hands-on control and lighter weight and great speakers.  Oh well, the Numa X keyboards are the closest I’ve seen yet (at my price level). 

 

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, RandyFF said:

my ideal would be a mash-up of the MP7SE and ES920: 4 voice stage piano with hands-on control and lighter weight and great speakers.

 

Agreed! But I don't see how they could get lighter unless they ditch the speakers. Maybe there could be a theoretical RHIV that streamlines that quality with lighter mechanisms, but I wouldn't count on it.

[RandyFF]

2 hours ago, CHarrell said:

 

Agreed! But I don't see how they could get lighter unless they ditch the speakers. Maybe there could be a theoretical RHIV that streamlines that quality with lighter mechanisms, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

I don't see why not. The ES 920 manages to weigh only 37.5 pounds with those great speakers, and weight wise all you would be adding is the control surface that the MP 7SE comes with.

[RandyFF]

I hope there are people that will answer my original inquiry about five posts up about warranty coverage in the United States, and if the warranty is transferable from the original owner.

[Noah DC]

Just email Studiologic via the link on their website. 

[Mins]

On 7/3/2023 at 2:23 PM, DeltaJockey said:

I would love to buy this and the laptop shelf, but sadly they've just never been available here, and no timeline on when they will be. I wonder if I can find a retailer overseas who will ship to Australia.

I am in Australia. A few years back I successfully ordered a Studiologic SL 73 from overseas. You can buy from this store with Paypal so if anything goes wrong you're covered. https://www.musicstore.com/en_OT/EUR/Studiologic-Numa-X-Piano-73/art-KEY0005523-000

 

Just make sure you ask for one shipped with an Australian power lead.

 

My turned up within 2 weeks and was perfect. I didn't have to worry about what country's lead it shipped with because the SL ran off USB which is universal. 

 

Having said all this, I contacted the supplier as I'm waiting on receiving mine and they said the product is due to dock at Australian shores week 1 or 2 of August. It takes a few days to clear customs and a few more to reach their warehouse facility, so all up we should be seeing them in our stores in the last 2 weeks of August. 

[RandyFF]

22 hours ago, Noah DC said:

Just email Studiologic via the link on their website. 

 

Here’s the response from Gianni:

Hi Randy,

the Warranty is normally calculated from the date of the first purchase, however I suggest you to contact our US Distributor to verify the local rules.

If you could get the instrument serial number, it could help.

https://www.studiologic-music.com/distributors/

Thanks and regards !

Gianni Giudici

 

———————

The American distributor is AMS, and here is their response:

 

Hi Randy,
Sorry, but warrantees are non-transferable. 

 

Thanks,

Bryan

 

Bryan Pistone

Vice President Sales, Music Creation Division

American Music & Sound - An Exertis | JAM business

+1 754-236-7057 (Desk) | +1 818-932-8081 (Cell)

Bryan.Pistone@AmericanMusicAndSo

—————————————

 

Major bummer!  I could save at least $200 on a used X73.  Next I’ll try openbox

 

 

[DeltaJockey]

17 hours ago, Mins said:

I am in Australia. A few years back I successfully ordered a Studiologic SL 73 from overseas. You can buy from this store with Paypal so if anything goes wrong you're covered. https://www.musicstore.com/en_OT/EUR/Studiologic-Numa-X-Piano-73/art-KEY0005523-000

 

Just make sure you ask for one shipped with an Australian power lead.

 

My turned up within 2 weeks and was perfect. I didn't have to worry about what country's lead it shipped with because the SL ran off USB which is universal. 

 

Having said all this, I contacted the supplier as I'm waiting on receiving mine and they said the product is due to dock at Australian shores week 1 or 2 of August. It takes a few days to clear customs and a few more to reach their warehouse facility, so all up we should be seeing them in our stores in the last 2 weeks of August. 

thanks, it's only the accessories I'm talking about. I already have the Numa Piano X GT. As I was saying in response to B3plyr, I was wanting the magnetic accessories too, but I will look into what you suggested.

[Kentkeys]

Dr Mix (Claudio Passavanti) has done a demo YouTube video of the Numa X Piano GT. It’s not a review, but has some interesting comments on settings and he is offering a couuple of his presets to download. There is also an interesting demonstration of using a vocoder with the Numa X. Unfortunately the camera makes the Numa display looked washed-out in some shots - unless his example is like that in reality.  

[Adan]

I got the GT.  Took me about 1 minutes to decide it's a keeper.  The hammer action is, I think, the best I've played. Feels better to me than the actions on the CP88 or the hight end Roland boards, and I like both of those actions a lot.  

 

i've used it on a couple solo piano gigs and, other than having to move that much weight, it's been great.  I didn't think I'd ever go back to hauling around a heavy keyboard, but it's been worth it to have the feel of the GT. Fortunately, the load ins on these two gigs have been super easy.  I'm not in an urban environment any more, so most if not all my loads should be that way.  For a challenging load-in, I'd rethink my options.

[CyberGene]

^ Well, since I’m in a more challenging load in situation in a pretty busy downtown rehearsal room, having to park at lest in a 5 minutes walking distance, I got the Numa X Piano 73. All things taken into account: action that is more than nice, good acoustic pianos, excellent Rhodes and killer controller functionality with USB audio interface, most lightweight and compact 73-key piano still with hammer action, all for less than €1000, and it’s easily an unbeatable board. But I can imagine how the GT is even better with its premium action if one can live with the added weight. 

[Mins]

Can anyone confirm they have successfully mapped the Numa X piano buttons and knobs to perform MIDI functions in Logic? I'm hoping to be able to map the encoders to track volume and some buttons to transport functions, among other things. 

[CyberGene]

8 hours ago, Mins said:

Can anyone confirm they have successfully mapped the Numa X piano buttons and knobs to perform MIDI functions in Logic?

A distinction should be made between “knob/button” and “function”. Those knobs have different functions depending on which screen you are on, for instance on the Home Screen they change the zone volume whereas on a zoom screen they affect e.g. piano parameters, etc.

 

So, you can map functions (because they are transmitted as MIDI CC). But you can’t map the knob universally regardless of which screen you’re in and regardless of which function it affects. 

[obxa]

9 hours ago, CyberGene said:

But you can’t map the knob universally regardless of which screen you’re in and regardless of which function it affects. 

Actually in Logic (or Mainstage) you can. It's done as a plug-in or global specific control.   If  a hardware knob is outputting any kind of midi (type indicated in Logic's  info window) it can be mapped to anything.- just remember it's  function would be defined by Logic, and not the Numa.  Same applies to any generic controller.   

 

 

 

[CyberGene]

21 minutes ago, obxa said:

Actually in Logic (or Mainstage) you can. It's done as a plug-in or global specific control.   If  a hardware knob is outputting any kind of midi (type indicated in Logic's  info window) it can be mapped to anything.- just remember it's  function would be defined by Logic, and not the Numa.  Same applies to any generic controller. 

Well, that's what I said. You can map the MIDI CC sent by a knob but those are different depending on the context, i.e. one and same knob will send different MIDI CC depending on which Numa screen/menu you have opened.

 

I've personally mapped the "zone volume" functionality of the knobs when the Numa is showing its home screen to control Logic track volumes. However if I open the zoom settings for a zone those knobs stop sending the "zone volume" MIDI CC and instead send different MIDI CC. Which may be desirable or not. Just for example, if you have a MIDI zone and you are not in the home screen but in the so called "zoom" mode for that zone, those knobs become custom MIDI CC controls where you assign whatever MIDI CC you would like to each knob. But if you change to another zone, those may change. And if you're on the main screen, those knobs only send a fixed MIDI CC (the one that is standard for MIDI volume).

[obxa]

 

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

But if you change to another zone, those may change.

Correct, and indeed may not be what you want.   One thing logic does allow is multiple controllers and definitions for the same function. I end up doing that more by mistake than on purpose. 😀   So you could in theory just go through a couple of screens on the Numa and have each do the same thing. 

[Mins]

Thank you, your input on mapping midi has made a lot of sense. What about buttons? Do the buttons also send midi messages that can be mapped? 
 

and are you happy with your decision to go with the Numa x?