61 Note Keyboard Suggestion For Pit Orchestra

[Polkahero]

Got a few gigs lined up playing keyboard in orchestra pits and concert bands. Right now I'm borrowing the music director's old Roland RS-5 synth which isn't that bad considering it came out 20 years ago. I sold my Hammond SK1 earlier this year, but that didn't really have all the necessary extra sounds I need for these gigs. Just wondering what are the best current offerings for a 61-note, lightweight board that has decent orchestral sounds (strings, harp, choir, piano, bells, etc.), quick access to presets for quick patch changes, and quick access to the transpose function so I can shift the octave down or up if necessary. Quick search brings up the Roland JUNO, Korg Kross, Korg Krome, and Yamaha MOXF6. Any preferences between these or anything else out there new or used that's better? Looking to spend around a grand, thanks.

[Chris Link]

One of the reasons I bought the Kurzweil PC3LE7 was for an annual gridiron show that I played 2nd KB for and needed a wide variety of sounds and the capability to line up various combinations for instantaneous switches. I never really explored the full range of what the KB was capable of, but it handled what I needed quite well.

 

Not doing that show anymore, so looking to sell that and some other stuff that"s just taking up space.

[AnotherScott]

Quick search brings up the Roland JUNO, Korg Kross, Korg Krome, and Yamaha MOXF6. Any preferences between these or anything else out there new or used that's better? Looking to spend around a grand, thanks.

Roland, Korg, Yamaha, and Kurzweil would be the contenders. From Kurzweil, a used SP4-7 might do the trick... it's a 76-key but it's only 3 to 4 inches wider than the 61-key Krome, MOXF, or Juno DS that are on your list, and since you mentioned piano as an important sound, its action is the most piano-playable of this bunch (plus you wouldn't have to octave-switch as much). You'd have to see if the stock sound set covers what you need, but if it doesn't you can also download other sounds for it (basically, any of the PC3-series programs work in the SP4, though you can only load a max of 64 of them).

[Polkahero]

Quick search brings up the Roland JUNO, Korg Kross, Korg Krome, and Yamaha MOXF6. Any preferences between these or anything else out there new or used that's better? Looking to spend around a grand, thanks.

Roland, Korg, Yamaha, and Kurzweil would be the contenders. From Kurzweil, a used SP4-7 might do the trick... it's a 76-key but it's only 3 to 4 inches wider than the 61-key Krome, MOXF, or Juno DS that are on your list, and since you mentioned piano as an important sound, its action is the most piano-playable of this bunch (plus you wouldn't have to octave-switch as much). You'd have to see if the stock sound set covers what you need, but if it doesn't you can also download other sounds for it (basically, any of the PC3-series programs work in the SP4, though you can only load a max of 64 of them).

 

Thanks, a little heavier at 24 pounds than I'm looking for. Looks like the updated SP6-7 only weighs around 17 pounds, maybe look for a used one of those. What's the main difference between the Krome and Kross models?

[stoken6]

+1 on Kurzweil for pit-orchestra work. Forumite, ex-Kurzweiler and first-call tech/programmer for musicals Dave Weiser has posted here on the subject.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

Thanks, a little heavier at 24 pounds than I'm looking for. Looks like the updated SP6-7 only weighs around 17 pounds, maybe look for a used one of those.

SP6-7 would be much better BUT it's not as close to the size of a 61, and moreover, it's only been shipping for a few weeks, it would be pretty unlikely you'd find a used one near term. (In dimensions, as I said, the SP4-7 is only 3-4 inches wider than most of the 61s; the new SP6-7 is another 3" wider again, and also deeper.) If we factor out the Kurzweils, of the ones you mentioned, I'd probably choose the MOXF6.

 

What's the main difference between the Krome and Kross models?

(Copied from a post elsewhere, close enough...): Functionally, the Krome EX seems like a Kross 2 without the sample trigger pads, step sequencer, audio recorder, line inputs, or vocoder, but with an improved sound set, a large color touch screen, and 4 control knobs instead of 2. (Also joystick vs. wheels, that's personal preference.) The sound set has about 40% more underlying samples (roughly 700 vs. 500), but some are much larger, yielding a total of 4 GB of samples vs 128 mb. Most of that difference is in piano, EP, and drum sounds. Factor those out and I think the difference is only something like 512 mb vs. 128 mb, but that's still a big difference. But besides the greater amount of underlying sample data, the Krome EX also has the more advanced EDS-X sound engine compared to the Kross' scaled down EDS-i. So for instance, the Krome can support up to 8 velocity layers per program, vs. 4 on a Kross.

[jeffincltnc]

Kurzweil all day.

[David Emm]

A Kurzweil would make the most sense if you were looking for a trooper to play for several years. Even with lesser models, there's always a solid element that's been well-tuned for orchestra pit work for decades.

 

Since you're generous about the very modest Roland RS-5, less-than-fabulous keys aren't as much of a deal breaker. I've mainly played Korgs and I'm with AnotherScott's comments. For the budget you stated, the Krome EX is probably the best deal. You're the one who knows what kinds of splits or fast changes you're facing, but that's recent enough to most likely meet your needs. Dig into the MOXF6 abilities and compare the two. I get the feeling one of those will be your winner.

[obxa]

+1 on Kurzweil stuff for pit band /2nd keys. I still occasionally drag out a (heavy!) 76 note PC1se,with the orchestral rom for shows I've already played and don't want to re-program. I also used the hell out of the PC161 before I sold it

 

That said......Since Pit band show-stuff has a definitive song order and list, I'd heartily reccomend just doing a laptop rig and controlling it with that Roland (as a backup sound source) or any decent 61 note controller. I made the move a while back and wish I had done it sooner.

 

Mainstage ($30.00 OSX )or Gig Performer (windows/osx) $169.00 on a laptop will do everything you need. Splits, multiple layers and x-pose. If you've already got a decent laptop - the whole thing well under a $1000.00

 

I use Mainstage on a 2012 Macbook air. Running: Triton/Wavestation plugs, Pianoteq, Kontakt with 8dio string and some other brass libraries,, and Xpand (great, cheap workstation style synth plugin - ideal for utility sounds that come up in shows that don't need a full fidelity library). Mainstage stock sounds are also very useable. Only issues i've ever had is Ik Multimedia's B3x occasionally choking, but zero issues with the other stuff.

 

Most broadway shows these days are computer driven, and you'll find ton of folks here doing the same for tribute bands etc.

[Polkahero]

Thanks for the input, right now I'm leaning towards the Yamaha but what if I were to expand my budget a few hundred bucks more and went with the MODX6 model? Seems noticeably improved over the MOX6 and is lighter and less bulky. And for another couple hundred bucks I could get the MODX7 so I wouldn't have to jump octaves as much plus it's only around 20 pounds and pretty slim for a 76-key model.

[AnotherScott]

Thanks for the input, right now I'm leaning towards the Yamaha but what if I were to expand my budget a few hundred bucks more and went with the MODX6 model? Seems noticeably improved over the MOX6 and is lighter and less bulky. And for another couple hundred bucks I could get the MODX7 so I wouldn't have to jump octaves as much plus it's only around 20 pounds and pretty slim for a 76-key model.

All good moves, but you see how easy it is to creep up farther and farther from your $1k target! Arguably the next step up from MODX7 would be Kurzweil PC4-7, but it was a smaller step before the recent price increase (it went from $1799 to $1999). But I suspect either Kurz or Yamaha will be perfectly satisfying for your needs, sonically. I think Kurzweil gives you some "playability" advantages... I think it's got a better action to play piano from, its button+slider zone management is simpler for bringing sounds in and out, and aftertouch is a nice way to bring in some more expressivity especially when you don't have a hand free. But you have to draw the line somewhere. ;-)

[Polkahero]

Thanks for the input, right now I'm leaning towards the Yamaha but what if I were to expand my budget a few hundred bucks more and went with the MODX6 model? Seems noticeably improved over the MOX6 and is lighter and less bulky. And for another couple hundred bucks I could get the MODX7 so I wouldn't have to jump octaves as much plus it's only around 20 pounds and pretty slim for a 76-key model.

All good moves, but you see how easy it is to creep up farther and farther from your $1k target! Arguably the next step up from MODX7 would be Kurzweil PC4-7, but it was a smaller step before the recent price increase (it went from $1799 to $1999). But I suspect either Kurz or Yamaha will be perfectly satisfying for your needs, sonically. I think Kurzweil gives you some "playability" advantages... I think it's got a better action to play piano from, its button+slider zone management is simpler for bringing sounds in and out, and aftertouch is a nice way to bring in some more expressivity especially when you don't have a hand free. But you have to draw the line somewhere. ;-)

 

One thing I'm noticing with the Kurzweil is a lack of audio inputs? If I'm playing a more acoustic piano concentrated gig and need a better piano sound I can always run my V3 piano module into the audio inputs of the Yamaha (which has two 1/4" jacks) so I don't have to set up a mixer. Also, the Yamaha has a Set List mode which would be helpful for quick patch changes within songs.

[AnotherScott]

One thing I'm noticing with the Kurzweil is a lack of audio inputs? If I'm playing a more acoustic piano concentrated gig and need a better piano sound I can always run my V3 piano module into the audio inputs of the Yamaha (which has two 1/4" jacks) so I don't have to set up a mixer. Also, the Yamaha has a Set List mode which would be helpful for quick patch changes within songs.

Kurzweil does have audio inputs... in fact it has 1/4" audio input jacks AND an 1/8" audio input jack. (Though it doesn't take audio in over USB as the MODX does, which is a nice bonus for bring sound in from a laptop/tablet/smartphone, cutting down on additrional cables.)

 

Yamaha's Live Set screens are great... 16 named on-screen buttons per page. Kurzweil isn't as good, but not bad... you put the screen in its "Quick Access" mode and assign your favorite patches to the number pad, and the screen will tell you what sounds are currently assigned to the 10 quick-select buttons. So it's kind of similar, except ten per page instead of 16 per page; and instead of tapping the name of the patch directly on the screen, you look at the screen to find out which number has the patch you want, and then you tap that button on the keypad.

[Outkaster]

Korg Kronos hands down.

[Polkahero]

Korg Kronos hands down.

 

Not willing to spend that much and it's too heavy. Got a buddy who would sell me one cheap but doesn't fit my criteria.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Yamaha MOXF6/MODX6 or a Kurzweil SP6-7 (or PC4-7 if you can spend that much) would be my two recommendations. IMO they both have better orchestral sounds than Korg, Roland, Hammond, Nord, Dexibell, or Kawai, with Kurzweil having an edge in strings and Yamaha having an edge on brass and woodwinds.

[Delaware Dave]

Dave Weiser used Kurzweil PC3K8's for the Pit Orchestras in his Broadway work. So logically the PC361 would make sense if you are in need of a 61 key bed.

[pjd]

If you can swing the MODX, that would be great. I play liturgical music that covers a wide range of styles including orchestral music. The MODX has improved strings, brass and woodwinds over Motif XF era workstations.

 

The MODX6 is quite small and light. I play in an incredibly tight space, not unlike a pit. The small size is important to me.

 

Hope this info helps â pj

 

PS I have several posts about MODX on my site: http://sandsoftwaresound.net

[Polkahero]

So my buddy no longer wants his Hammond SKPRO 73 that he just got. A little heavier at 24 pounds and while I know the organ sounds are great how do the extra sounds compare? Viable option?

[stoken6]

So my buddy no longer wants his Hammond SKPRO 73 that he just got. A little heavier at 24 pounds and while I know the organ sounds are great how do the extra sounds compare? Viable option?

It doesn't come to mind as a premier orchestral/musical-theatre board. Hammond got a lot right on that board, but this wasn't their target market.

 

If you want it for other purposes, great.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[BluMunk]

Oh, a related question . . . are you looking at 61 keys for space-at-the-venue reasons? Ease of transport? Financial considerations? A sense that you only need that range?

 

Maybe you've honed in on the right number of keys that'll work for you, but I know I'd be working around the instrument's limitations from day one for many/most pit orchestra applications.

[Polkahero]

Oh, a related question . . . are you looking at 61 keys for space-at-the-venue reasons? Ease of transport? Financial considerations? A sense that you only need that range?

 

Maybe you've honed in on the right number of keys that'll work for you, but I know I'd be working around the instrument's limitations from day one for many/most pit orchestra applications.

 

Ease of transport and space related issues in my car. I'm also doubling on bass guitar for some of these gigs so the bass and amp take up room as well. I'm going to check out a MODX7 near me today.

[Motif88]

I'd consider the Yamaha YC61, prefer the 73 or 88 but if space, weight and transport are the issues, take a look at the YC61...

[stoken6]

I'm going to check out a MODX7 near me today.

Nice board - please report back with your thoughts.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

I'd consider the Yamaha YC61, prefer the 73 or 88 but if space, weight and transport are the issues, take a look at the YC61...

YC61 is a nice board, but doesn't have a tremendsouly large selection of orchestral sounds, and you can't split/layer more than two of them. The cheaper MODX6/MODX7 have much more capability here.

[Polkahero]

I just got a really good deal on a hardly used MODX7 with gig bag under my original budget ceiling. Orchestral harp sounds great, used that for Sunday's concert on the Roland. Lots of usable sounds in this board!

[lsj]

I agree on the MODX