The People's Keyboard....

[uhoh7]

I have been fascinated by this instrument forever. I have heard it put down many times, of course. But I've heard them played very well. The plethora of configurations has kept me at bay untill now....

 

[video:youtube]

Note the wonderful bajo sexto bass guitar as well.

 

At around 3:20 the young man on the accordian really get's going. The performance, for whatever reason, pushed me over the edge. This type of playing has been spreading accross the southwest, including on Indian Reservations, where it has become a weapon of choice for house parties.

 

As you guys likely are aware these things can be very pricey for a really good one, no problem to drop 3k. But once again the Chinese have come to the rescue, as with guitars and violins, and Hohner, like Yamaha, has a chinese factory somewhere......

 

This is what they make:

[video:youtube]

 

This is sort of like what the Cordoba C5 is for classical guitars, an entry level instrument which can take you a very long way....if you don't give up

 

3-row, diatonic, it is apparently flexible enough to play Zydeco and Irish styles as well, with a few work arounds. Arrives friday

 

Most youtube tutorials are in spanish. Luckily, at age 23, in 1981 I hitchhiked from Idaho to Chile, with a air hop over the Dorian gap. I'm not quite fluent but pretty good for a gringo.

 

I'm sure many members here have tried them or maybe play one on regular basis. Any and all reflections very welcome.

[Threadslayer]

OK. Now for what is no doubt a culturally tone deaf question. How come the 12-string guitar doesn't sound like a 12-string guitar? I'm thinking he has the same gauge string for both halves of each pair. Which tees up the follow on question, why?

[zxcvbnm098]

OK. Now for what is no doubt a culturally tone deaf question. How come the 12-string guitar doesn't sound like a 12-string guitar? I'm thinking he has the same gauge string for both halves of each pair. Which tees up the follow on question, why?

 

Not 12 string guitar..Bajo Sexto

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajo_sexto

[uhoh7]

OK. Now for what is no doubt a culturally tone deaf question. How come the 12-string guitar doesn't sound like a 12-string guitar? I'm thinking he has the same gauge string for both halves of each pair. Which tees up the follow on question, why?

 

Not 12 string guitar..Bajo Sexto

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bajo_sexto

 

It's certainly not like any 12 string most of us are familar with, but it does have 12 strings....

 

Awesome instrument, and versatile:

 

[video:youtube]

 

The string setup could probably be traced to the lutes of the conquistadors. There are quite a few unique guitars all around Latin America. The first spanish guitars had double-courses:

[video:youtube]

 

There is also a widely used bajo quito, with 10 strings, and the very famous Cuban "tres" with six:

[video:youtube]

 

I've been clueless about all these awesome instruments which have long rich traditions. I suspect they have been actively ignored but are finnally beginning to break through in the north american market, beyond the Tejano community, and other Latin American communites. There have been exceptions like "La Bamba", but that songs roots were never really go into. Norteno Son, and Tejano, I think. Norteno Son has become big again also, with heavy Cuban influence sometime way back. Other Mexican Son styles are struggling. David Wax was very influenced by those, and has been trying to raise awareness. He plays another unique Mexican guitar, sort of an Alto.

[video:youtube]

David Wax is the closest thing to a Woody Guthrie in word and deed I have heard this century. I only learned about him recently:

In this extended interview

 

Here is an incredible documentary about the tejano accordian tradition I found today:

[video:youtube]

This was completed in 1986 and you'll find the remaining 6 parts on the same channel. You'll see why I use the term "actively ignored". It's quite a story.

 

Here is a newer documentary which looks excellent:

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/BIQzxL9d42Y

[Mighty Motif Max]

You can drop 50K on a Pigini or Yupiter bayan...a good midrange piano accordion sits around $18,000-20,000.

 

I've always struggled with diatonic instruments. It's a totally different way of working.

[uhoh7]

You can drop 50K on a Pigini or Yupiter bayan...a good midrange piano accordion sits around $18,000-20,000.

 

I've always struggled with diatonic instruments. It's a totally different way of working.

 

For those as ignorant as I was a few days ago: diatonic means it's like a harmonica, each key makes two tones, one on the push and one on the pull.

 

Why do you think they cost so much? What do you think are the best values for a chromatic button with free-bass? Or is that a crazy way to go?

 

Thanks Max!

[Mighty Motif Max]

You can drop 50K on a Pigini or Yupiter bayan...a good midrange piano accordion sits around $18,000-20,000.

 

I've always struggled with diatonic instruments. It's a totally different way of working.

 

Why do you think they cost so much? What do you think are the best values for a chromatic button with free-bass? Or is that a crazy way to go?

 

I don't play chromatic system accordions (though I have a Pigini that needs a little work that I got from someone...long story but it cost 30K new). I believe that a lot of the cost is due to the fact that good acoustic accordions are handmade. You can't make a ton of them quickly and the reeds in particular require a very delicate, time-consuming process to make. That's also why these Chinese instruments sound harsh and don't hold up well. You can expedite some of the process for some components but the majority of the work still has to be done by hand. It's along the lines of building an acoustic piano, pipe organ, or high-grade violin. My wet-tuned Borsini 72/34 LMM accordion cost a little over $6,000 about ten years ago.

 

Chromatic with free bass is what my teacher (a world-class accordionist, Dee Langley) likes more than anything else. If you can get a grip on the chromatic system (pay attention to B or C system too lol), that would be an excellent way to go. Generally speaking I am a fan of Titano accordions (my daily driver is a Titano Virtuoso Converter), unless one wants a wet-tuned instrument. In that case I used to really like Borsini, but they went out of business in 2013. Beltuna makes good instruments as well.

[Tom Williams]

For those as ignorant as I was a few days ago: diatonic means it's like a harmonica, each key makes two tones, one on the push and one on the pull.

I'm gonna get a bit pedantic here: the word "diatonic" means it uses 7, rather than 12, tones per octave, with no accidentals.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Here you go - the Pigini Nova - 46K USD.

 

https://www.lamalleauxaccordeons.fr/en/94-accordeon-a-convertisseurs-pigini.html

 

You know, one thing I don't get about Pigini is that the piano version of the Nova is just a 4/5 accordion, while the chromatic version is 5/5.

 

 

Someday I would like to upgrade to a LMMMH wet-tuned accordion with free bass and chin switches, but that's going to cost me.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Don't forget about chromatic free bass vs Stradella free bass as well. There are SO many factors that go into picking an accordion.

[uhoh7]

For those as ignorant as I was a few days ago: diatonic means it's like a harmonica, each key makes two tones, one on the push and one on the pull.

I'm gonna get a bit pedantic here: the word "diatonic" means it uses 7, rather than 12, tones per octave, with no accidentals.

Many words have more than one meaning in music, Tom, and many other things, as Shakespeare often shows in witty lines. That gets more true as more history and tradition are involved. That's why I made the clarification. A diatonic accrodian can play more than 7 tones per octave. The GCF panther can play every note in it's register. It's fully chromatic on the treble side, though it take a while to learn them.

 

Juan will demonstrate:

[video:youtube]

I don't think you need spanish to her the chromatic scale towards the end. Or to recognise a virtuoso who has learned by ear. A diatonic accordian makes one note on the push and one note on the pull. The reeds are bisonoric. In the this context that's what diatonic means, look it up. Don't blame me if the word is used in another way ALSO. If I was king, we could just call them Bisonoric to avoid triggering pendants.

 

It was a new meaning for me too. I learned the 7 note use of the term in around 1979, and was perfectly happy with it. Diatonic accordians have been around much longer than that LOL I didn't know what I didn't know, ya know?

 

 

@Max Thank you so much for those links!!

[KuruPrionz]

I'm from Fresno CA, I was a guitar tech there for many years. I repaired and adjusted all sorts of beautiful instruments.

Los Tigres Del Norte would come through town once or twice a year and drop off all of their instruments for a couple of days to be spruced up a bit.

They were great customers and a fantastic band.

 

There is a wide range of styles from Mexico and South America. Spaniards brought guitars and trumpets (in some styles the trumpets must be tuned just slightly off from each other to sound "bigger"), and some percussion. They also brought Flamenco and popular music based on that and other styles. The Germans came and brought accordions, tubas and the polka beat. The indigenous peoples had their own music traditions and adapted many different styles both of instrument building and music.

 

We once alternated sets with Sukay, who were from Ecuador, high in the Andes. I had a long talk with their leader one day about the difference in cultures. He said that in the United States we have a separations of Art and Artists from everyday life and they did not do that in the village he was from. He showed me how their pan flutes were made so that it took two people - each with their own pan flute - to play melodies. They had different notes on them so it became a community interaction. They also had a couple of charangos, I don't know if you could bring those into the States now. I've seen a couple. It's a small double coursed sort of guitar family instrument and many of them were made out of armadillo shells. Sukay played a "folk fusion" style, using delay and reverb to enhance the village sounds they grew up with, truly lovely music.

 

Mariachi (is marimba truly the people's keyboard?), Norteno, Andes folk songs, you could hear all of it and more in the Central Valley of California. It was not uncommon to be having a beer after work at a small bar in Selma and a 3 piece combo would stroll through, busking for tips. Often it would be guitar, bajo and accordion, sometimes a trumpet and always singing.

 

I was too busy playing country and heavy metal funk to learn any of the songs but I always enjoyed hearing the music live. It's good energy.

[MathOfInsects]

Pan flute ensembles can be 50 deep, and work a bit like what would happen if you distributed just a few piano keys from different parts of the instrument to different people. No song can be played without everyone being involved. In the Euro-west we value the "virtuoso"; through most of the planet, the value is in intricate communal interplay.

 

I do not hate the accordion, but have a minor theory that the reason it's so widely reviled. Skip ahead in this video to about 1:20 and look at the spectral analysis of a single tone on the accordion, particularly as compared to all the other instruments that come before it. It's a BRICK. We make sense of the sounds we hear partially using phase differential. I think we get agitated by the sort of aggressive ambiguity of that sound (just like we are on the other end of the spectrum with pure sounds that have no real overtones, like a mosquito, or everyone else's cell phone).

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

Pan flute ensembles can be 50 deep, and work a bit like what would happen if you distributed just a few piano keys from different parts of the instrument to different people. No song can be played without everyone being involved. In the Euro-west we value the "virtuoso"; through most of the planet, the value is in intricate communal interplay.

 

I do not hate the accordion, but have a minor theory that the reason it's so widely reviled. Skip ahead in this video to about 1:20 and look at the spectral analysis of a single tone on the accordion, particularly as compared to all the other instruments that come before it. It's a BRICK. We make sense of the sounds we hear partially using phase differential. I think we get agitated by the sort of aggressive ambiguity of that sound (just like we are on the other end of the spectrum with pure sounds that have no real overtones, like a mosquito, or everyone else's cell phone).

 

 

IDK, that baritone sax is getting close as well.

 

To be honest I think the idea of accordion being "widely reviled" is highly regional at best. That said, I do get the impression that part of the dislike that some folks do have for it is thanks to a subconscious association with polkas, waltzes, basically "old fashioned European" music, that some people got burnt out on. The electric guitar was really the start of the decline of the accordion, because if you look at the advertising for accordions from, say, 1920-1965, they were the "cool" instrument. So naturally people who grew up with rock then aren't going to be accordion fans as much.

[EricBarker]

It strikes me that the accordion is more popular in mainland Europe and their colonies, and less so in the UK and its colonies. I've been talking with my wife a lot lately about Quebec, Acadia, and Cajun culture (all related, of course), and all of them maintain the accordion as a very strong cultural touchstone, where-as English Canada, the US, Australia, and NZ have really no particular interest in accordion. It comes up a bit in Celtic music, but even then it's not really a mainstay, more a borrowing from other rural european folk traditions. I played Irish folk for years, and almost never saw an accordion, but it's slightly more common than British folk music or Americana.

[mauriziodececco]

I cannot read this thread without talking about Castelfidardo (some more information here: https://www.museodellafisarmonica.it/en/) the center of the italian accordeon industry, a few kilometer away from my hometown.

 

And the accordeon industry brought the analog organ industry in the 60s (the Farfisa Compact derived from a project of an electronic accordeon) and later a good part of the local music industry (a large part of the italian

one).

 

Guess where Guido and Crumar is ?

 

Maurizio

[uhoh7]

It's a BRICK.

Thanks for the caps. In case we miss the point, right?

 

You don't hate it, but maybe you feel sorry for it?

 

You present 2 minutes of video with few seconds of sound labeled "accordian" to support your theory of why some people hate the accordian. This obviously implies the accordian makes a low quality sound. Not a rich sound. Yet it makes sound millions of people are nuts about. How could that be? Simple: they can't tell. They have no taste.

 

No stereotype here, just science. Pure observation. Forget what you hear, I got a graph. The trouble with knowing: a conclusion is like a perfect cadence. The music stops. Hard to start back up learning, listening. People might laugh.

 

Let's consider this graph of yours:

What accordian made this tone? There are a million types, wet, dry and a ton of variations in construction. They play chords. Was that a single note or chord? Pretty lazy case to impune a Kazoo, let alone something which plays harmony.

 

[video:youtube]

 

I hear similar logic on synth forums to impune Hammond Organs. They call them "home organs" most of the time, maybe because people associate "Hammond" with sounds they regard as rich and interesting, which makes the case harder.

 

Here's some alternate "theories". Accordians, which certainly have very distinct qualities, like an organ, have been looked down upon for various reasons. 1) not cool. let's show we are hip. we don't want to be confused with our ignorant ancestors, or somebody else's. 2) This is an instrument that is often used for traditional music in small gatherings, a "folk" instrument. We all know folk music is not sophisticated, right? 3) This is an instrument widely used in working class bars, cantinas etc. How could a respectable person have their daughter learn such thing?

 

One thing I know after listening to alot of accordian lately: pidgeon hole and generalize accordian sounds at your peril.

 

[video:youtube]

 

What a brick.....where is the nuance? Where is the color?

 

If I'm not careful I'll spend my osmose money and more

[MathOfInsects]

I"m not sure what set you off, but I am sure that you keep spelling the name of the instrument you love wrong.

[Joe Muscara]

I"m not sure what set you off, but I am sure that you keep spelling the name of the instrument you love wrong.

Accordian to whom?

[uhoh7]

I"m not sure what set you off, but I am sure that you keep spelling the name of the instrument you love wrong.

 

LOL, good point..... acordeón....right?

 

hearing does trump speeling fro me.

 

Here is a video about BRICK making:

[video:youtube]

 

There is an interesting bit at near the end. 600 reeds in some akkordeons. How many reeds in your video? Can take up to 16 hours to tune at the factory! The mystery of why these bricks are so expenisve is a little more clear.

 

I'm not entirely sure what this guy is up to.......

 

[video:youtube]

 

Vive le accordéon!!!! (Spanish drops a c)

 

Viva la armonica a manticino!!!

 

Gott segne DIE AKKORDEON-MELODIKER !!!

 

and OK I better get it right: be well my little brick, you gorgeous accordiOn

[Threadslayer]

I think a lot of the 'Hate" of accordions is tongue in cheek. At least it is for me. It's practically a meme "use an accordion, go to jail"

A friend of mine picked up accordion in her 60's and I rewrote the lyrics of Lady of Spain for her website, but she wouldn't put it up - go figure.

 

Ahem.

Lady of Spain I abhor you

Angel of pain I implore you

Turn that thing off or I'll floor you

Lady of Spain I abhor you.

[uhoh7]

I think a lot of the 'Hate" of accordions is tongue in cheek. At least it is for me. It's practically a meme "use an accordion, go to jail"

A friend of mine picked up accordion in her 60's and I rewrote the lyrics of Lady of Spain for her website, but she wouldn't put it up - go figure.

 

Ahem.

Lady of Spain I abhor you

Angel of pain I implore you

Turn that thing off or I'll floor you

Lady of Spain I abhor you.

Charming. No doubt she was greatly encouraged.

 

I have the feeling this young woman's friends do not insult her Accordion, ever:

[video:youtube]

 

It's a huge instrument in Columbia:

[video:youtube]

The Polka, which echos in the Tejano style, did not make it this far, I don't think.

[drawback]

I met an accordionist of Ukrainian descent who fronted a killer trio from Toronto â accordion, guitar & drums. They played every style you can imagine as well as traditional Ukrainian dance music (rock it up and it's very much like Ska). Every so often they'd throw in a Tango â and I mean real, classical Tango. Mind blowing stuff, and this guy was a ripping virtuoso player. I asked him where he picked up the Tango music. Turns out there are a lot of Ukrainians in Argentina, where he was able to get a foothold to spend a good part of a decade immersed in classical Tango music, as played on the accordion. Who knew?

[KuruPrionz]

Sorry, can't resist...

 

What is perfect pitch?

 

When you toss a banjo into the dumpster, it hits an accordion and they both break.

 

Meanwhile. I LIKE accordions. And yes, there are many types and many styles of playing those types. One of the things I've always loved about The Band and their records is Garth Hudson's accordion playing.

Cajun, Latin American styles, Myron Florin on The Lawrence Welk Show - there is some great music out there.

[philtre71]

Here in Scotland we have a complicated relationship with the accordion (often shortened to 'box').

 

The 'dance bands' that are still the norm at wedding ceilidhs almost always feature one. Scots associate their sound with learning the various dances at school, where we would practice along to a recording of such a band. This took place every year from primary (aged 6/7) to late secondary (aged 16/17), hence our ability to execute these dances even after excessive alcohol.

 

The piano accordion is most common, though occasionally you will see a chromatic button accordion (which is what I play). Jimmy Shand popularised the three-row CBA, though these are quite rare.

 

There's a nice example of a typical ceilidh band setup here (with some excellent accordion playing):

 

 

You also see accordions in some of the loyalist marching bands who take to the streets around this time of year, but the less said about that the better.

 

The diatonic (push-pull) accordion is usually found in Irish traditional music (and in Mexican Norteno, and many other 'folk' styles) and some feel it gives more 'lift' to the music, as you need to make rapid changes of direction of the bellows to change note. The piano accordion is a more legato instrument, and this is perhaps more idiomatic of the melodies found in Scottish traditional music.

[Threadslayer]

Meanwhile. I LIKE accordions. And yes, there are many types and many styles of playing those types. One of the things I've always loved about The Band and their records is Garth Hudson's accordion playing.

Another somewhat unlikely place for an accordion to elevate a song to another level:

"

1.'4th of July, Asbury Park (Sandy)" - Bruce Springsteen

From: 'The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle" (1973)

 

Billy Joel once sang that the piano sounds like a carnival, but on this chestnut from Bruce Springsteen's sophomore album, it's the accordion that does the trick. The E Street Band's late, great Danny Federici squeezes away and brings the neon-lit arcades and Tilt-a-Whirl rides to life. The accordion keeps us spinning on this endless summer night, and while Bruce might be looking for a way out, we're happy to get stuck on this carousel. In concert, 'Sandy' was always a showcase for Federici's talents. It only made sense that when Federici played his last E Street show in 2008, this was the only song he requested to perform.

 

LINK: http://ultimateclassicrock.com/accordion-songs/

"

And yes. I like accordions too.

[Outkaster]

I know Danny's son. He was a prodigy at a young age and really underrated as a keyboard player. He moved to Hammond as that is what people were doing in the late 60's. Check out my signature. . Every time we'd go to weddings or celebrations and there was a band my cousin Tony would play. A few of my cousins from Italy that played accordion were monster players.

[TommyRude]

I have been fascinated by this instrument forever.

Mr. uhoh7, you know more about the accordion than I know about anything and everything else combined

[GRollins]

I kinda fell into this thread by accident but I must say that the...er...vehemence of some of the posts surprises me. Life is stressful enough without knowingly wading into a discussion that engenders such emotion, so y'all never mind me, I'll just tiptoe right back out the door.

 

Grey

[mauriziodececco]

And now for some french modern contribution

 

RIchard Galliano

 

[video:youtube]

 

Daniel Mille

 

[video:youtube]

 

And my preferred one, Marc Berthoumieux

 

[video:youtube]