Question about Viscount Legend Live

[Silbac]

Hi everyone, in the last couple of days I've thought about buying a clonewheel organ for my dad who's close to retirement and has been in love with Hammond for as far as I know. I play piano and guitar and but I'm fairly new to organs so in these last days I've searched a bit to understand which could be the best choice to buy. Main thing I'm looking for is a clonewheel organ who can best replicate the sound of a Hammond B3 and I've finally rounded up my choices to 2: Viscount Legend Live and Crumar Mojo. Now, I know these are both incredible instruments and as far as I've understood most differences are mainly related to personal preferences, but I wanted to ask people with experties some personal opinions about it. I'm personally in love with the Viscount Legend Live and righ now I'm leaning towards choosing it over the Crumar, which on the other hand has also some acoustic piano sounds so it's not strictly just an organ simulator. I've also come across the GSi DMC-122 and I really liked that model too. Another issue is what kind of amplification to use: I've spoken with Thomann customer service and they suggested me to buy a Yamaha HS 8 stand bundle (this) What do you think of it? And, overall, what do you think would be the best choice for a clonewheel organ setup considering that I want to keep it in the 3000 budget maximum? Thank you very much for your time.

[konaboy]

hi, the dual manual crumar classic does not have any non-organ sounds iir, no piano tones, so don't let that be a factor in your decision.

i made a few videos about the legend, see link in signature if you want to see my take on it. more vids to come.

i figure that if i get the legend, i could purchase the vb3 software, and therefore the sound engine of the mojo for an additional $100, so have both organs for (almost) the price of one.

legend also has fx loop, pedal line out, and leslie connector, if that's important to you.

[jeffincltnc]

I did this research extensively a couple years ago and went with the Legend Live as the best choice for me. I like the layout and additional sets of drawbars. I prefer the Leslie simulation of the Legend Live over the Crumar, but I prefer the chorus/vibrato of the Crumar. I'm happy with my choice and it was right for me, but there are lots of happy Mojo players on this forum. The DMC-122 and Gemini is also a good product but it is in fact a MIDI controller with a built in module and is a little different experience to get acquainted with.

[AnotherScott]

For organ, a pair of monitors wouldn't be my first choice. I'd consider one of the Aspen Pittman Spacestations, or maybe Viscount's Hurricane 210.

[Lou_NC]

Will he be transporting the organ to gigs? If not, I would suggest considering the Legend vs. the Legend Live, in order to get the controls/switches in the "right" place to duplicate the B3, in addition to more preset keys. I would definitely lean toward either Viscount model vs. the Mojo, in order to get two sets of drawbars per keyboard, but that is a personal preference.

 

Does he need/want an 11-pin Leslie connector? That's another checklist item for the Viscount as compared to the current Mojo "Classic".

 

Lou

[Silbac]

First of all thank you all for the useful answers!

As far as I've understood, the main difference of the Legend vs the Legend Luve is that it has more presets which are assignable to cthe inverted dolor keys, and it also has post a pre Lesie reverb functions, but correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway it will be stable at home, so no need to transport it, could you explain why do you think the Legend would be better?

Lastly, and this may be a stupid question, but does the keyboard necessarily need an external audio output to play?

What are you all using?

Overall right now I would like to build a good setup for it to sound good with my budget, so I'm trying to figure out what other 'pieces' I have to buy beside the keyboard itself.

Thank you.

[jeffincltnc]

I'm not sure if it's in your budget or a bit out of your budget, but I think the Viscount Legend in the black Joey DeFrancesco Signature Edition is a beautiful instrument that would be enjoyed for a long, long time of being played daily. It is styled nicely, has the JD tone set, and the reverse keys, rocker switches, etc. That would be a nice score to find a deal on one in your price range if you can.

[Silbac]

Unfortunately it's out of budget! But is it any different from the Viscount Legend?

[jeffincltnc]

Other than the cosmetics, there is a tonewheel set that is exclusive to the JDF edition, but don't worry, you have so many excellent choices in the standard model!

[Silbac]

Thank you! Right now my main concern is understand what else I should be buying beside the keyboard to create a good setup overall.

[Silbac]

After a little bit of research I've found this setup that's shown in

video. He uses two of these PA speakers and this amp. The whole thing would cost around 260 which would be a bargain for me. What do you think of it? Thank you again.

[16251]

After a little bit of research I've found this setup that's shown in

video. He uses two of these PA speakers and this amp. The whole thing would cost around 260 which would be a bargain for me. What do you think of it? Thank you again.

 

I'm sure the audiophiles here wouldn't be satisfied but I like cheap when it is called for (or necessary,) and am impressed with a $300 price tag in 2021.

[Silbac]

Yeah I figured the same ahahah thank you. But right now I don't think I can do better within that price range, hopefully in the future I will be able to buy better equipment for it. But for now, as long as it does a good job in emulating the Hammond sound, that's good!

[Silbac]

hi, the dual manual crumar classic does not have any non-organ sounds iir, no piano tones, so don't let that be a factor in your decision.

i made a few videos about the legend, see link in signature if you want to see my take on it. more vids to come.

i figure that if i get the legend, i could purchase the vb3 software, and therefore the sound engine of the mojo for an additional $100, so have both organs for (almost) the price of one.

legend also has fx loop, pedal line out, and leslie connector, if that's important to you.

 

Thank you so much. I've now realized that you're the one who posted both the video-review of the Legend Live and that of the PA M 12 ECO MKII, so I think you would recommend that setup, right?

[Lou_NC]

If you need to watch costs regarding your amplification/speakers, you may want to look for a recent thread that discussed speakers for clonewheels on this forum.

 

Here is some of the text from a post I made on that thread:

"For home use, I've been using a pair of older JBL Control 1 monitor speakers, mounted on the wall at ear level (my XK-3/XLK-3 setup is placed against a wall), along with a 8" JBL powered subwoofer that I bought off Craigslist. I kick pedals and at moderate (home studio) volume levels, this setup is really great! Plenty of bass. I had to adjust the percussion and keyclick volumes on the Hammond to match the high-fidelity speakers, but now that it's been tweaked down a bit, it all sounds fantastic."

 

My point here is simple.......if you need to keep cost low on the sound system in order to stay within your budget and still afford the organ, you may want to consider using smaller, less expensive speakers and a used "home-theater" subwoofer. This will give a nice stereo image for the Leslie effect on the organ, and has enough bass and volume for "home" volume levels, in my experience.

 

Good luck,

Lou

[Silbac]

So do you think the Thomann loudspeakers (in my previous comment) paired with a decent subwoofer could work? Also, do I still need to buy the amplifier right?

[Al Coda]

So do you think the Thomann loudspeakers (in my previous comment) paired with a decent subwoofer could work? Also, do I still need to buy the amplifier right?

 

 

just only FYI ...

 

That cheapo speaker is 8 Ohms and handles 175 watts RMS and the amp in that vid outputs 45 watts RMS into 8 Ohms.

IMO that´s a wrong combination.

Ideally the amp should give equal or more power than the speaker handles,- just because the amp should control the speaker and not the opposite.

A clipping 45 watts amp will destroy a speaker even it handles 175 watts RMS.

The low end of the organ will saturate the amp quickly !

And you don´t know which speakers/tweeters are used in that cheap cab.

Possibly no name brand chinese crap.

 

Thomann offers better speakers under their own brand,- the TheBox "Achat" series which is cheap too,- and there are also active (build in bi-amp) ones available.

There is also an affordable 12" active sub available.

Prices are all hard to beat.

And yes, when buying all passive,- speakers and sub,- you´ll have to buy poweramps.

And have in mind you´l NEED enough power for low end (bass) !

 

When I needed a relatively cheap but good sounding active stereo system for keys,- I´d consider a pair of Alto TS310 and the Alto TS312S subwoofer (plus covers for transport).

But that´s a EUR 850,- - EUR 900,- investment already and even I´d call it the most affordable system in relation to performance.

When deciding against a sub,- I´d still go w/ the active TS310 for keys because the difference is not that big compared to the TS312.

You can add a sub later, when needed (at all).

In use, it´s a big difference if you use these systems as PA or for keyboard monitoring.

 

Everything better is more expensive, Yamaha, EV, QSC, RCF ...

 

A.C.

[Silbac]

So do you think the Thomann loudspeakers (in my previous comment) paired with a decent subwoofer could work? Also, do I still need to buy the amplifier right?

 

 

just only FYI ...

 

That cheapo speaker is 8 Ohms and handles 175 watts RMS and the amp in that vid outputs 45 watts RMS into 8 Ohms.

IMO that´s a wrong combination.

Ideally the amp should give equal or more power than the speaker handles,- just because the amp should control the speaker and not the opposite.

A clipping 45 watts amp will destroy a speaker even it handles 175 watts RMS.

The low end of the organ will saturate the amp quickly !

And you don´t know which speakers/tweeters are used in that cheap cab.

Possibly no name brand chinese crap.

 

Thomann offers better speakers under their own brand,- the TheBox "Achat" series which is cheap too,- and there are also active (build in bi-amp) ones available.

There is also an affordable 12" active sub available.

Prices are all hard to beat.

And yes, when buying all passive,- speakers and sub,- you´ll have to buy poweramps.

And have in mind you´l NEED enough power for low end (bass) !

 

When I needed a relatively cheap but good sounding active stereo system for keys,- I´d consider a pair of Alto TS310 and the Alto TS312S subwoofer (plus covers for transport).

But that´s a EUR 850,- - EUR 900,- investment already and even I´d call it the most affordable system in relation to performance.

When deciding against a sub,- I´d still go w/ the active TS310 for keys because the difference is not that big compared to the TS312.

You can add a sub later, when needed (at all).

In use, it´s a big difference if you use these systems as PA or for keyboard monitoring.

 

Everything better is more expensive, Yamaha, EV, QSC, RCF ...

 

A.C.

Thank you so much, I'll look into those options. But I really don't know how to decide since I know nothing about sound systems

[drawback]

Silbac, from what I understand from your initial post, this is for your dad to play at home, not in a band, correct?

[Silbac]

Silbac, from what I understand from your initial post, this is for your dad to play at home, not in a band, correct?

Correct! And for me too since I would like to learn how to play the organ. But I mean it would be mainly for home use, not for professional one.

[AnotherScott]

But that´s a EUR 850,- - EUR 900,- investment already and even I´d call it the most affordable system in relation to performance.

If it's for organ and nothing else, at that point, I'd rather get the Spacestation at 999 .

[Silbac]

So do you think the Thomann loudspeakers (in my previous comment) paired with a decent subwoofer could work? Also, do I still need to buy the amplifier right?

 

 

just only FYI ...

 

That cheapo speaker is 8 Ohms and handles 175 watts RMS and the amp in that vid outputs 45 watts RMS into 8 Ohms.

IMO that´s a wrong combination.

Ideally the amp should give equal or more power than the speaker handles,- just because the amp should control the speaker and not the opposite.

A clipping 45 watts amp will destroy a speaker even it handles 175 watts RMS.

The low end of the organ will saturate the amp quickly !

And you don´t know which speakers/tweeters are used in that cheap cab.

Possibly no name brand chinese crap.

 

Thomann offers better speakers under their own brand,- the TheBox "Achat" series which is cheap too,- and there are also active (build in bi-amp) ones available.

There is also an affordable 12" active sub available.

Prices are all hard to beat.

And yes, when buying all passive,- speakers and sub,- you´ll have to buy poweramps.

And have in mind you´l NEED enough power for low end (bass) !

 

When I needed a relatively cheap but good sounding active stereo system for keys,- I´d consider a pair of Alto TS310 and the Alto TS312S subwoofer (plus covers for transport).

But that´s a EUR 850,- - EUR 900,- investment already and even I´d call it the most affordable system in relation to performance.

When deciding against a sub,- I´d still go w/ the active TS310 for keys because the difference is not that big compared to the TS312.

You can add a sub later, when needed (at all).

In use, it´s a big difference if you use these systems as PA or for keyboard monitoring.

 

Everything better is more expensive, Yamaha, EV, QSC, RCF ...

 

A.C.

Do you mean this?

[drawback]

But that´s a EUR 850,- - EUR 900,- investment already and even I´d call it the most affordable system in relation to performance.

If it's for organ and nothing else, at that point, I'd rather get the Spacestation at 999 .

 

I think this is a good option and if the OP is looking at Thomann for equipment, they have a package with an SSv3 and a subwoofer. This will work well in the near term and further down the road.

 

https://www.thomann.de/it/aspen_pittman_designs_spacestation_v.3_sub_bundle.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiaXQiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6MiwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOiJpdCJ9

 

[Silbac]

But that´s a EUR 850,- - EUR 900,- investment already and even I´d call it the most affordable system in relation to performance.

If it's for organ and nothing else, at that point, I'd rather get the Spacestation at 999 .

 

I think this is a good option and if the OP is looking at Thomann for equipment, they have a package with an SSv3 and a subwoofer. This will work well in the near term and further down the road.

 

https://www.thomann.de/it/aspen_pittman_designs_spacestation_v.3_sub_bundle.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiaXQiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6MiwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOiJpdCJ9

 

Thank you, I'm looking it up now!

[konaboy]

those speakers and amp i described in my video work perfectly for home use and I imagine for intimate gigs. plenty of bass, and more than powerful enough for a large room. the reproduction of the stereo rotary simulation is great, and much more flexible when it comes to placement and stereo spread than those spacestation boxes (i've not tried one, but it would seems to make sense).

 

forget any theoretical concerns about wattage ratings, yes I realise there might be issues when pushing really hard and driving amplifier to distortion, but let me tell you that for home use the amp is only coasting at about 10% volume without any hint of clipping, I have the feeling there is a ton of headroom remaining

 

the original poster states that this is for home use only and he or she is on a tight budget for the amplification, so an amp & speakers is a good and affordable solution.. the ones I tried out were a pair of 12", so absolutely no additional sub required, organ LH bass and pedals punch nicely.

 

it's funny, i started the other thread about amplification system for clonewheel, for use in a small room at home, and if I recall, there were recommendations for PA systems costing upwards of $1500, with thousands of watts power, complete overkill!

[jazzpiano88]

.

[brenner13]

Oh Woody,...you simply must experience a Spacestation in person. The technology that produces the stereo spread is mind blowing.

[Al Coda]

Oh Woody,...you simply must experience a Spacestation in person. The technology that produces the stereo spread is mind blowing.

 

Yeah,- but now costs EUR 999,- @Thomann and no low end below 100Hz.

The sub brings it into the pricerange of a pair affordable quality well known brand stereo active speakers.

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

I think this is a good option and if the OP is looking at Thomann for equipment, they have a package with an SSv3 and a subwoofer.

 

This sub is relatively large and heavy compared to the SSv3 itself and it doesn´t come w/ HP - filtered outputs (running to the SSV3).

The build in filter is just only for the sub.

 

When someone wants to protect SSv3´s woofer from too much low end below 100Hz,- he wants a sub w/ (adjustable) HP filter in the output.

Ideally you go stereo into the sub 1st and then via filtered outputs into SSv3.

 

The Alto combo I mentoned does exactly this,- the sub comes w/ several HP filter presets for TS308, TS310 and TS312 speakers and an "extended low end" setting.

You cannot beat ´em for the price.

Pair of TS310, the TS312S and 3 padded protective covers are about EUR 100,- less than the SSv3 alone.

It´s just only an example ...

 

The SSv3 is a nice piece of gear,- no question.

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

those speakers and amp i described in my video work perfectly for home use and I imagine for intimate gigs. plenty of bass, and more than powerful enough for a large room. the reproduction of the stereo rotary simulation is great, and much more flexible when it comes to placement and stereo spread than those spacestation boxes (i've not tried one, but it would seems to make sense).

 

forget any theoretical concerns about wattage ratings, yes I realise there might be issues when pushing really hard and driving amplifier to distortion, but let me tell you that for home use the amp is only coasting at about 10% volume without any hint of clipping, I have the feeling there is a ton of headroom remaining

 

the original poster states that this is for home use only and he or she is on a tight budget for the amplification, so an amp & speakers is a good and affordable solution.. the ones I tried out were a pair of 12", so absolutely no additional sub required, organ LH bass and pedals punch nicely.

 

it's funny, i started the other thread about amplification system for clonewheel, for use in a small room at home, and if I recall, there were recommendations for PA systems costing upwards of $1500, with thousands of watts power, complete overkill!

 

You´re not wrong w/ your statements.

But I myself, I not only look for cheapness,- I also look for some sound quality.

 

I also use small amplifiers @home,- Alesis 150 (2x 45W RMS into 8 Ohms / 2x 75W RMS into 4 Ohms,- like the small Thomann amp), an Ashly 4-channel amp (4x 80W RMS into 8 and 4x 150W RMS into 4 Ohms), Bryston3B (2x 120W RMS into 8 Ohms/ 2x 200W RMS into 4 Ohms).

 

The small Alesis is for playing keys @home, together w/ Alesis Monitor One mkII.

 

I´d prefer compact affordable studio monitors over the cheapest Thomann passive 12" speakers for the home all day.

These speakers aren´t flat at all.

You hear something and it´s loud enough,- but that´s all more or less,- and they need more estate in small rooms.

 

I´d say, in a room at home, you don´t need any 12" speakers at all.

 

A.C.