S'cuse me whilst I geek out on Yes...

[eric]

Thanks for the tips. For you legit Yes fans, what"s your perspective on the later era like 90125 and Big Generator?

[Mark Schmieder]

I was made cognizant of the widespread impact that Yes have had, at a rehearsal last night of the punk band I just joined in Raleigh NC. We ended up jamming on "Starship Trooper". :-)

[mcgoo]

Thanks for the tips. For you legit Yes fans, what"s your perspective on the later era like 90125 and Big Generator?

 

90125 was a brilliant, fresh reboot. Big Generator & Talk saw Trevor Rabin getting a little too much creative control... Lots and lots of notes, layers and very little space. My two cents.

[drawback]

Thanks for the tips. For you legit Yes fans, what"s your perspective on the later era like 90125 and Big Generator?

 

90125 was a brilliant, fresh reboot. Big Generator & Talk saw Trevor Rabin getting a little too much creative control... Lots and lots of notes, layers and very little space. My two cents.

 

Agreed!

[GRollins]

I'll just say that after Relayer I backed away for a while. The band did what they had to do to survive during the disco era. "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" is the only Yes tune that gets airplay around here anymore. I find the song actively annoying, but others disagree, some vehemently, saying that stuff worked for them. Your perspective is your own. Listen and come to your own conclusions.

 

They later came back to more prog-oriented material, rather than pop. To me that was good, but I don't feel that it was quite up to the early '70s standards, though unquestionably better than a lot of other music traveling under the moniker "prog" at the time.

 

Grey

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm one of those for whom 90125 was a disappointment not in comparison to the early or mid 70's, but specifically because Drama was such a shot in the arm for the band energy-wise and creatively and though it sort-of spawned Asia I just feel that Drama has grown in value the most over the years of anything in prog-rock of that era. Similarly with Tull's "A", which at the time seemed like a placeholder but then Jobson's work (especially live) grew on me.

[jazzpiano88]

I'll just say that after Relayer I backed away for a while. The band did what they had to do to survive during the disco era. "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" is the only Yes tune that gets airplay around here anymore. I find the song actively annoying, but others disagree, some vehemently, saying that stuff worked for them. Your perspective is your own. Listen and come to your own conclusions.

 

They later came back to more prog-oriented material, rather than pop. To me that was good, but I don't feel that it was quite up to the early '70s standards, though unquestionably better than a lot of other music traveling under the moniker "prog" at the time.

I really loved Drama (then again I was only 17 and was my first exposure to them along with Fragile in my friend's collection)

[GRollins]

Am I the only one who has trouble keeping 90125 and 90210 straight? Wasn't 90210 a TV show back in that same general time period? (I'd given up watching TV by the late '70s, but The Zip Code Show was sorta inescapable in popular culture.)

 

Grey

[Docbop]

Am I the only one who has trouble keeping 90125 and 90210 straight? Wasn't 90210 a TV show back in that same general time period? (I'd given up watching TV by the late '70s, but The Zip Code Show was sorta inescapable in popular culture.)

 

Grey

 

90210 was TV show about rich kids at Beverly Hills High School. Definitely not a show I ever watched.

[NewImprov]

I'm one of those for whom 90125 was a disappointment not in comparison to the early or mid 70's, but specifically because Drama was such a shot in the arm for the band energy-wise and creatively and though it sort-of spawned Asia I just feel that Drama has grown in value the most over the years of anything in prog-rock of that era. Similarly with Tull's "A", which at the time seemed like a placeholder but then Jobson's work (especially live) grew on me.

 

I got into prog rock in my last years of high school (graduated in 1980), much of my exposure was digging into the back catalogs of bands like Yes, Tull, Krimson, Genesis, etc. "A" and Drama were the first new albums to come out from these bands after I got into them, and I bought both on release. Loved both albums at the time, and still do. These albums, along with Peter Gabriel's 3rd album and Krimson's Discipline, not to mention Fripp's League of Gentlemen LP, were possibly the most successful of the prog-era artists trying to deal with the New Wave movement.

 

 

The first time I saw Tull live was on the A tour, it was a fantastic show, Jobson's CS80 sounded AMAZING. Became a lifelong fan of his work after that show.

[GRollins]

For all that I love Yes and this thread is about them and all, the best single show I ever saw was Jethro Tull. Don't mean to sound disloyal to Yes, but Tull really blew my socks off.

 

Grey

[Mark Schmieder]

Yep, I've seen Tull (my favourite band of all time) a few more times than any other rock band, with Yes a bit behind them but in second place -- not because they're my second favourite prog band, but because each time had a different line-up 9as with Tull) and that always piques my interest.

[mate stubb]

After Close To The Edge, they lost me. I thought Yessongs sounded weak vocally and stopped listening after. Ironically I liked Moraz better on his solo album i than I did with Yes. Also I discovered Gentle Giant around that time, and switched my listening allegiance.

 

Only time I saw Yes live was the 90125 tour with Rabin. Loved the show and album as I saw it as somewhat of a return to featuring songs more like the Yes Album era.

[GRollins]

Incidentally, I finished the Progeny set a few days back. It's consistently inconsistent, if you catch my drift. Consistent, in that the sound quality and production, etc. remain the same from one end to the other. Inconsistent, in that the performances continue to surprise from night to night. For those who might have had their interest piqued by my posts, know that this isn't actually a full Yessongs concert every night. Every concert begins with the traditional excerpt from Stravinsky's Firebird Suite, then:

 

FIRST DISC

--Siberian Khatru

--I've Seen All Good People

--Heart Of The Sunrise

--Mood For A Day/The Clap (Maple Leaf Gardens, 10/31/72, has this before Heart--they were having a technical problem; Howe filled in while they fixed it)

--And You And I

 

SECOND DISC

--Close To The Edge

--Excerpts from Six Wives Of Henry VIII

--Roundabout

--Yours Is No Disgrace

 

MISSING (compared to Yessongs)

--Perpetual Change

--Long Distance Runaround

--The Fish

--Starship Trooper

 

Progeny has The Clap, which is not on Yessongs

 

The set list is in a different order on Progeny versus Yessongs, in case that matters to anyone.

 

Progeny includes a small booklet that talks about how the album came about, but I don't recall that they addressed why certain songs were missing, compared to Yessongs. While I doubt that anyone other than bass players would miss The Fish, Perpetual Change, Long Distance Runaround, and Starship Trooper are likely to be on someone's "Aw, rats...that was my favorite song..." list. Given that my CD version of Yessongs fits on two discs and each Progeny concert is on two discs, it's not a matter of real estate to fit in the zeros and ones. Your guess is as good as mine. Or maybe they said something in the booklet and I missed it.

 

There are no concert photos, but there are photos from airports, tour buses, and interviews. Lots of cool Roger Dean art if you're into that sort of thing (I am).

 

I've found nothing to change my earlier assessment: I love it, but wish it was still in print so I didn't have to pay scalper's prices to get a set.

 

Moe, since you mentioned vocal quality, be aware that Anderson mentions from the stage that he's sick and apologizes that his voice is a little off that night--I'm thinking that was the Durham gig, but could be wrong. There are some other places where he sounds a bit hoarse, whether from illness or vocal strain is open to interpretation.

 

When I saw them on that tour in Savannah, they had an ambulance pulled up on each end of the stage. They lit their emergency lights and wailed their sirens during the transition from Six Wives to Roundabout. Never saw that coming...

 

Grey

[Ivan May]

I think the band Yes as a whole--the rhythm section of Steve Howe's guitar, Rick Wakeman's keyboards, Bill Bruford on drums and Chris Squire on bass--is a progressive rock lineup that nobody can match.

 

Fragile is one of the best engineered albums ever made. Just listening to songs like Roundabout and Long Distance Runaround, it's amazing how those guys (plus singer Jon Anderson) were able to double their parts and make it sound easy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPCLFtxpadE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gaZRACHMSk

 

I own several Yes albums and consider them to be a good listen or two.

[GRollins]

Without boring you with the path that led me to it, I pulled up Three Dog Night, Live At The Forum on YouTube this morning while I was baking bread. I had remembered the album fondly, though I haven't owned a copy since the '70s...gave mine to an old girlfriend. Over time, I had perhaps built it up a little too much, because the actual listen today was a bit of a letdown. Don't get me wrong, the album has its moments, but overall it just wasn't what I thought it was, back in the day. I kept wanting to hit fast forward to get to the good parts, only to get to the end and realize that, well, the good parts weren't as strong or as plentiful as I had remembered.

 

Yes, on the other hand, and let's take Fragile in particular, has stood the test of time with me. I am just as delighted while listening to it as I was years ago. Given that the Three Dog Night album is roughly the same age as Fragile, you could say that they are both expressions of the same era. I know which one I'd rather listen to today.

 

I'm certain that there are people who would come to the opposite conclusion--they would rather listen to Live At The Forum. But...I think I could make a solid case that Fragile was the more important album, musically, in that it broke new ground, whereas Three Dog Night's effort was just "more of the same." It was a pretty good same, but it wasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, a trailblazing album. Okay, okay, it was a live album, and live albums are, by definition, nearly always a "best of" kind of compilation, but still...

 

Grey

[Iconoclast]

12 hours ago, IMMusicRulz said:

I think the band Yes as a whole--the rhythm section of Steve Howe's guitar, Rick Wakeman's keyboards, Bill Bruford on drums and Chris Squire on bass--is a progressive rock lineup that nobody can match.

 

Fragile is one of the best engineered albums ever made. Just listening to songs like Roundabout and Long Distance Runaround, it's amazing how those guys (plus singer Jon Anderson) were able to double their parts and make it sound easy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPCLFtxpadE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gaZRACHMSk

 

I own several Yes albums and consider them to be a good listen or two.

It's quite easy on an internet search to find the actual stems from songs like Roundabout. I found the keyboard tracks to help me learn the song and was amazed at how IMPERFECT the performances were. I mean...I've listened to Fragile a zillion time and absolutely love the record...but under close scrutiny there's a whole lot of sloppiness in individual stems. I don't say this to be picky or judgy. Just that there was something about how that record was mixed down, and the synergy of them all together that made that magic.  Certainly in todays recording environment the producer would have required a couple more passes!

[Docbop]

10 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

>>> I found the keyboard tracks to help me learn the song and was amazed at how IMPERFECT the performances were. <<<

 

>>> Certainly in todays recording environment the producer would have required a couple more passes! <<<

Perfect is boring.   Listen to all the old great records and part of the soul of record was the imperfections.   In Jazz even today the artists don't want to do more than two or three takes so they are getting fresh ideas and energy.    

 

I would say today's music is boring because it sounds overworked.   Jacob Collier for example I don't like his records because they are way too overwork, hundreds of tracks massaged to perfection, but I hear Jacob play live or with other bands I really like what he does. 

[timwat]

Have spent a good part of my teenage life drinking in 11 consecutive albums in the "early" catalog - Yes Album, Fragile, CTTE, Topographic, Yessongs, Relayer, Going for Hit One, Tormato  The Debacle Which Shall Not Be Named, Drama, Yesshows, 90125. For me, the apotheosis is still Close to the Edge, with Relayer rewarding repeated listens as such a wonderful journey to new lands (and never to return there).

 

So much came together for CTTE - melodically, compositional structure, orchestration, chops, smart writing decisions, tension/release. A lot of this is also evident on Topographic, but I feel like that one ultimately collapses under its own weight. And I'm not sure I've heard another album that sounds anything like Relayer. Ever.

 

Later material has its moments. Awaken, Tempus Fugit. But after that I lost interest...a lot of later material to my ears doesn't break any ground. Safe, pleasant reworking of well-loved recipes. And not really why I listen to prog.

 

There's a lot of unfinished hems in great prog. Chances taken, risks left on the tape. Ain't no quantizing in Tarkus. Plague of Lighthouse Keepers sounds positively dangerous. Lark's Tongue? Fuhgeddaboudit - I'm wearing kevlar to that one. 

[jazzpiano88]

11 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

It's quite easy on an internet search to find the actual stems from songs like Roundabout. I found the keyboard tracks to help me learn the song and was amazed at how IMPERFECT the performances were. I mean...I've listened to Fragile a zillion time and absolutely love the record...but under close scrutiny there's a whole lot of sloppiness in individual stems. I don't say this to be picky or judgy. Just that there was something about how that record was mixed down, and the synergy of them all together that made that magic.  Certainly in todays recording environment the producer would have required a couple more passes!

Just listened to the Keyboard stem of Roundabout (haven't listened to the record in years).  I was surprised how minimal it was.  There was no comping.   Worked out parts to fit the composition in sparse intervals except for the improv at the end.  Timing was imperfect but that's what a human does.   While I was there I checked out the piano stem on Toto Rosanna.  Here the timing is way back and forth on the "hammer on" parts but it works in the context of the band and makes it groove.  It wouldn't sound half as good if pro tools had been around to correct it.

[Mills Dude]

57 minutes ago, timwat said:

Have spent a good part of my teenage life drinking in 11 consecutive albums in the "early" catalog - Yes Album, Fragile, CTTE, Topographic, Yessongs, Relayer, Going for Hit One, Tormato  The Debacle Which Shall Not Be Named, Drama, Yesshows, 90125. For me, the apotheosis is still Close to the Edge, with Relayer rewarding repeated listens as such a wonderful journey to new lands (and never to return there).

 

So much came together for CTTE - melodically, compositional structure, orchestration, chops, smart writing decisions, tension/release. A lot of this is also evident on Topographic, but I feel like that one ultimately collapses under its own weight. And I'm not sure I've heard another album that sounds anything like Relayer. Ever.

 

Later material has its moments. Awaken, Tempus Fugit. But after that I lost interest...a lot of later material to my ears doesn't break any ground. Safe, pleasant reworking of well-loved recipes. And not really why I listen to prog.

 

There's a lot of unfinished hems in great prog. Chances taken, risks left on the tape. Ain't no quantizing in Tarkus. Plague of Lighthouse Keepers sounds positively dangerous. Lark's Tongue? Fuhgeddaboudit - I'm wearing kevlar to that one. 

Tim, like I said in another thread, we are like "brotha's from another motha".  

 

Sure, I love Fragile, but it's no where near my favorite Yes record.  Certainly, Rick Wakeman is a prog keyboard god but I like the Yes records he wasn't on better with the exception being CTTE.  CTTE is a masterpiece in all regards.  For me, Fragile lacks some of the group cohesiveness that made the other records great, kind of like ELP Works Vol. 1.  

 

If I were to rank my top 5, I'd do - 1. Relayer, 2. CTTE, 3. Drama, 4. 90125, 5. Yes Album.  Fragile would be next and the rest kinda fall off a cliff for me.  I like Tales but I agree that it "collapses under its own weight".   I love what Moraz does on Relayer, all that great Rhodes work and comping, the mellowtron and moog leads. Relayer is probably the most "fusion" Yes record.  My fantasy would have been that Bruford came back to the drum chair for that one. 

 

I still go back and listen to Drama pretty often.  I just loved that record.  Sure its got flaws, Trevor Horn trying to mimic Jon Anderson and Geoff Downes not being on the same level as Rick Wakeman.  But I love the textures with the Fairlight and the keyboard playing is quite tasty.  I was never the biggest Steve Howe fan but I think he's at his best on that record, with his playing on Relayer a close 2nd.  Chris Squire as always is wonderful to listen to on any Yes record.

 

I came of age in the early 80's, so 90125 is right in that sweet spot. Its a great record, the production is awesome (thanks Trevor) and just a fresh take on a sound, 70s prog, that became tired.  I trot that out pretty often, not a bad track on the record except maybe 'City of Love'.  I like the vocal tradeoff between Rabin and Anderson, who I think was at his vocal peak at that time.

[Baldwin Funster]

I like the early Time in a word stuff, and everything up to and including Drama which I consider a full canonized YES album. I like one thing from the Rabin period I think it's aim high shoot low or something like that. Everything else for me isn't so much YES but more like MAYBE and more usually NO.

[David Emm]

I saw Yes live while Moraz was on keys and Wakeman's cut-down "King Arthur" tour, so I got two ample slices of Goodness from those. A lot of the music is now as much a mountain in one corner labeled PROG as a playlist for me. People usually name the full-bore group pieces. I think of "Cans and Brahms". I'm aging gracelessly.

 

I laboriously painted the back cover of "Yessongs" on a friend's bedroom wall, often with Yes things playing. I'm no Roger Dean- get so very real- but it turned out pretty well. Did I take a picture I can share now? Hell no. Cue emoji of someone pulling a string that makes a boot kick them in the arse. I also did one of the "Magician's Birthday" cover, by Uriah Heep, which took several hundred bucks worth of custom mixed latex. Yes, they can mix neons. Ah, the joys of a hippie heathen with well-heeled pals.

[bill5]

 

On 12/6/2020 at 9:55 PM, mcgoo said:

 

90125 was a brilliant, fresh reboot. Big Generator & Talk saw Trevor Rabin getting a little too much creative control... Lots and lots of notes, layers and very little space. My two cents.

Pretty much sums it up for me. Although I still liked the earlier stuff better. And 90125 had this sort of dark screechiness about it which turned me off at times. 

 

Mixed feelings about "Owner of a Lonely Heart." Great lyrics (which you could understand, not very Yes-ish lol) and melody, but didn't like Rabin's solo and absolutely hated the orchestral hits. 

 

 

On 12/7/2020 at 9:40 PM, Mark Schmieder said:

Drama was such a shot in the arm for the band energy-wise and creatively 

Probably their most underrated album IMO, and this from a huge Jon Anderson fan.

 

Anyway, long standing Yes fan. I just wish they'd done a Greatest Hits or other compilation album. 

 

 

  

[Baldwin Funster]

53 minutes ago, bill5 said:

 

Pretty much sums it up for me. Although I still liked the earlier stuff better. And 90125 had this sort of dark screechiness about it which turned me off at times. 

 

Mixed feelings about "Owner of a Lonely Heart." Great lyrics (which you could understand, not very Yes-ish lol) and melody, but didn't like Rabin's solo and absolutely hated the orchestral hits. 

 

 

Probably their most underrated album IMO, and this from a huge Jon Anderson fan.

 

Anyway, long standing Yes fan. I just wish they'd done a Greatest Hits or other compilation album. 

 

 

  

There was a compilation album in the the 70s, Yesterdays. It was a little too early to include alot of their best work though.

[The Real MC]

While the pioneering days of prog was during my teenage years, I completely missed it.  I grew up in a rural area with little exposure to prog.  The nearest venue that would host ELP or Yes or any prog rock band was a few hundred miles away.  The local radio stations played little other than Roundabout, Long Distance Runaround, Karn Evil pt 3, Lucky Man - hard pressed to think of anything else.  I did not know any peers who had those albums.  It was 1981 when I was old enough to drive and old enough to buy my own records when new wave/punk ruled, prog was old hat, and records were poor quality you had to buy/return 2-3 times to get a record that wouldn't skip.  Yes there was 90125 but I didn't really latch onto that and it certainly was far from the classic era.  When prog groups Yes and ELP reunited they never did play a venue close to me.  By 1986 Ticketbastard had monopolized the concert ticket market and their insane ticket prices drove me away from concerts for good ($10 S&H fee for a 2x7 inch embossed card stock PER TICKET?  I don't think so).  Thank God for CDs then DVDs, finally I could see/hear what I had missed.

[GRollins]

30 minutes ago, bill5 said:

 Anyway, long standing Yes fan. I just wish they'd done a Greatest Hits or other compilation album.

 

 

They did...it's called Yessongs...

...or Progeny, your choice.

 

I liked Close To The Edge best of all...probably Fragile second, at least the full-band songs; the solos were mostly so-so. Relayer maybe third...or...The Yes Album? I don't know. I lost interest after Relayer.

 

What might have happened if Moraz hadn't gotten himself fired? I can see different scenarios, some good, some bad.

 

Topographic Oceans was difficult for me. I wanted to like it. I really did, but it just never gelled for me. It has moments that work, but a lot of it is just tedious. I think if someone had cracked the whip and told the band to take out the meandering stuff it would have made a decent single LP album. Not a strong album, mind you, but a decent one. (I feel pretty much the same way about Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti, but let's not start that conversation.)

 

Bill Bruford said he didn't want to make "son of Close To The Edge" so he left Yes. Well, that's his right, of course, but I often wonder what would have happened if he had stuck it out. Would he have steered the others away from Jon Anderson's idea for Topographic Oceans? Apparently the basic concept was Jon's, who in turn sold Steve Howe on it, and the two of them talked the rest of the band into going along. In some alternate universe, that knife's edge (oops, wrong band...) decision might have gone the other way. They might have made Son Of Close To The Edge. Would it have measured up? Could it have measured up? We'll never know.

 

I think one of the things that's wrong with Topographic Oceans is that Rick Wakeman has nothing to do. There's no pyrotechnic playing. It's just a bunch of pads. He's bored out of his skull and it shows...and so he left the band, too. Rick is one of those guys who needs to play something non-trivial, at least some of the time. To tether him to all that low-level background crap isn't fair to him and it did a disservice to both the album and the band in the long run; a Ferrari being used to ferry groceries. Every time it sounds like they might get up a good head of steam, it just kinda fizzles out and they go back to sleep walking through the music.

 

Grey

[bill5]

Geez guys, I was kidding. Yes have had about what, 100 Greatest Hits/compilation albums? 

[AnotherScott]

I think the "other side" of Close To The Edge (i.e. "And You and I" and "Siberian Khatru") is fantastic. But I never much cared for CTTE itself. Blasphemy, I know. 

[GRollins]

I'll take all three.

 

Grey