Amplification on a bicycle

[GerbenD]

First off: wonderful forum you've got here! I've been lurking for a while, but now I happen to have a question that I could use your help with.

 

I can't drive a car and public transportation is not always an option, so I'm about to buy a new lightweight keyboard that I can carry on my back while riding my bicycle.

But what should I use for amplification?

 

Since not all the places where I'd like to play have a PA system, I'm looking for an amp that I can strap on the rear rack.

Possibly using crates or bags that could otherwise be fitted to the bike.

 

I'll often be jamming with just a drummer (fortunately not an outrageously loud one) and a guitar player. Most likely in small spaces and without an audience. There is no bass player so I'll definitely make some use of the lower register.

 

What I've found so far are the following pieces of advice in general:

 

Don't get a Roland Keyboard Amp

Get QSC K 8.2 speakers (somewhat expensive to risk on the back of a bicycle)

Use two speakers (stereo makes a big difference apparently?)

 

Now, there is not a lot of room on a bicycle. The largest box that I have been able to carry on the back of my bike was about 30 x 30 x 50 cm (or 12 x 12 x 20 inch).

As for weight, a beer crate is about 12 kg (or 27 lbs) and is probably close to the maximum amount of weight that I can carry safely on the rear rack.

 

My budget is around 500 Euros. (Or 550 US dollar/450 British Pounds) If it becomes more expensive than that I will probably not feel comfortable carrying it on the back of my bicycle.

 

The options appear to be either a single PA speaker (8" ), two smaller PA speakers (5 - 6,5") or a keyboard amp.

A larger PA speaker would provide better bass, the two PA speaker combination would provide stereo sound and then there is the Roland KC series that you have butchered creatively elsewhere on these forums.

Sacrifices have to be made, as you can't have things cheap/light/small and get a great sound that is loud enough to play with a drummer. I'm just hoping to find the best fit.

 

Given that I won't be able to try any monitors/keyboard amps/pa speakers in a store any time soon, do you have any recommendations?

 

 

Bonus:

 

I'm also looking for a small sustain pedal and expression pedal. Ideas?

[lightbg]

Try this:

 

Street Cube

 

I have the earlier model and it will fill a small room with decent bass and fairly strong highs. I posted a YouTube using it with a pair of Yamaha refaces (a YC and a CS), and this one should be a lot stronger.

 

Just a suggestion. Also, the chainsaw bias is for the honking KC series, and that is very accurate.

 

Jake

[RandyFF]

Welcome to the forum! Yes indeed, this is one of the best forums ever!

 

So, any need for vocals? Mixer? Reverb?

 

I've played outdoors for years and having easy-to-carry systems that have the good bass required by a keyboard, and the mixer with reverb required for vocals (as well as plugging in guitars at times) have led me to just a few systems. In my experience it's hard to find things under $1,000 (hopefully under $500) that meet my criteria.

 

ROLAND STREET CUBE EX (the largest of their Cube speakers):

- Can run off of batteries (8 rechargeable AA's), gets a surprising 50 watts of power going thru two 8" speakers

- Extensive mixer section: Vocals with 3 band eq and reverb, Guitar with 3 band eq and reverb plus chorus or delay as well as guitar models. Also 2 more stereo inputs with volume control

- Weighs 18 pounds and is very compact considering its got two 8" woofers

- Stereo- not super expansive, but surprisingly it makes a difference

- Decent amount of bass for a small speaker that is under $500, weighs under 20 pounds and has a good mixer. I've played it outdoors a lot, in noisier settings the bass was really not enough, with 4 walls it's decent

- Not hi-fi by any means, but overall, for what it is, was happy to have a decent portable solution

 

For my needs, you're super limited if you want to go with something that has built-in batteries. However, lithium ion batteries are really cheap these days compared to even just a few years ago. Got an outstanding deal for a 250wh lithium ion battery with built-in inverter for $130! So instead of my former rig with a lead acid battery that weighed 70 pounds and a separate inverter, I've got a small battery/inverter that weighs about 6 pounds and is a small footprintl

250wh lithium battery/inverter

 

Because I have a practical battery solution now, my range of sound systems is greatly expanded. However, I need something with built-in reverb for vocals/guitar, which narrows the list considerably.

 

TURBOSOUND IP300:

- Two 6.5" woofers, four 2" tweeters splayed left and right

- Bluetooth for playing audio from your phone

- Bluetooth for controlling the mixer:

-------- 2 channels with 3 band eq each, plus reverb sends

-------- Volume for BT plus 2 channels

-------- Modes

- Weighs 26 pounds. Is not very deep or wide, but pretty long. Carry handles makes it easy to move.

- Not stereo, but it does have an expansive sound

 

Soundwise this has been a significant upgrade from the Roland Cube. Tons more bass, and the tweeters project the sound in a much wider dispersion pattern, overall more hi-fi. BT control of mixer is great, as well as being able to play audio from my phone over BT. $425 in the states, nothing else comes close for my needs and under $500 AFAIK.

 

I've also used my QSC K8.2 with the lithium battery/inverter, and really liked it, about the same volume, bass and fidelity as the Turbosound IP300. Surprisingly, even with the higher watts, it uses about the same amount of battery power as the IP300. However, no BT audio and mixer controls, and no reverb, and it's more expensive. But it does sound good, and for your means of transportation, is more compact.

 

But if you don't need BT and reverb, there are plenty of options that are considerably lighter and cheaper and still get great reviews.

 

Randy

[bourniplus]

One powered monitor with an 8" speaker would be my choice. If you don't want to pay for a QSC, look for those by Electro-Voice or Behringer. Others will surely have other companies to recommend. I have an EV with an 8" for when I don't want to carry my other EV that has a 12". I think it would have plenty of bass and volume if the drummer and guitarist are respectful.

[Wrrtyuuiioop]

What do you have in mind as a keyboard?

 

There are very few lightweight keyboards that I would consider carrying on my back on a bike. A Korg Kross 2 at 8lbs would be one and one of the Roland Go keyboards would be another.

 

An alternative to the Street Cube Ex which designed as a guitar amp would be the Vox VX50KB which is 50W and has 3 channels

[GerbenD]

Well Jake and Randy,

 

The Turbosound IP300 is probably a bit too long (twice the length of the rear rack) but the Street Cube and Street Cube EX are certainly options. An extensive mixer section sounds appealing, making it easier for another player to join in. The eq, reverb and delay are already available through my keyboard, but it never hurts to be flexible.

 

The keyboard itself is not powered by batteries, so the amp doesn't need to be battery-powered either. Buskers have similar lightweight needs though, so I suppose it makes sense.

 

 

bourniplus, I assume you use this one?

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/ev_zxa190b.htm?ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjQiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0%3D

 

 

Biggles, I'm currently considering the Vox Continental with either 61 or 73 keys. I wouldn't need to carry it very far and I'm used to carrying heavier weights on hiking trails. Though admittedly using a more comfortable backpack. Actually, come to think of it, I might be able to extend that backpack on the top-end and use that instead.

 

The Vox VX50KB was not yet on my radar. I suppose the Street Cube Ex being designed as a guitar amp might have it's focus on the high mid frequencies whereas the Vox keyboard amp is flatter across the entire range?

[bourniplus]

bourniplus, I assume you use this one?

Yes. The only problem I have with it is the design of the handle, it's very awkward to carry. Others have also reported this on the forum.

[Docbop]

Guitarist Gilad Hekselman was doing a residency in a Europe and put up some pictures I always found funny but good idea. He was going he gig riding a bike with a small cargo/luggage trailer attached to the back, in it he had a Fender Deluxe Reverb amp and his guitar case. Using a small bike trailer seems like it would be right size for a powered speaker and a keyboard. Below is one that pops up in search and I see Schwinn bicycles makes one that has a cover.

 

Seems like it would be easier to deal with than strapping something to your back.

 

Link to bike cargo trailer

[Reezekeys]

My QSC K8 weighs 27 lbs. I can't imagine getting it on a bike, in any fashion â except maybe with a bike trailer as described above.

 

I was in Amsterdam a few years ago and almost killed by cyclists several times! The Netherlands is a serious cycling country. I'm sure you're right in the groove with it but as a visitor I was impressed â and frightened! â by how fast all these cyclists were going through some very busy intersections! To think of having a keyboard on my back and amp strapped onto a platform â seems a little crazy! Good luck. There are some decent PPA speakers around 19 lbs (8.6 Kg) I think â don't recall the brands offhand. And of course I will always say stereo is preferred for the quality of sound. I would choose two smaller speakers over one larger one but that's me.

[KuruPrionz]

Consider a Fender Rumble 40. Our bassist uses one.

 

Very light and sounds far better than I would have expected.

Has a DI built in, nice feature if you need it. No larger or heavier if you don't.

40 watts with a 10" speaker.

8.16 kg

Just under 42 cm tall and wide

30.4 cm deep

 

Pretty affordable too. Full retail in USA is $199.

Cheers, Kuru

[Nathanael_I]

You should give this guy a call:

 

[video:youtube]

[GerbenD]

Whoah, a Synth Bike, that would be neat. Though with the recent ban on using mobile phones while riding a bike, I don't think I could get away with that.

 

The bike cargo trailer on the other hand, that could be a great idea. I'll have to check what size would fit into my small shed, but I suppose it would be a good investment. If the length of the trailer is more than half of the keyboards length, I should be able to strap it in safely. A design like this: https://www.burley.com/product/travoy/ could fit the keyboard, but not also an amp.

Oh man, the world of bikepacking just opened up for me.

 

As for almost being killed by cyclists in Amsterdam, yeah, we're pretty good on a bike. (And I'll admit, sometimes a bit reckless) Amsterdam is particularly crowded though, you'll be safer elsewhere in the country.

 

The Fender Rumble is an interesting suggestion. I had never considered a bass amp. I don't think I'll need a DI, but the price and weight are appealing.

 

As for the handle on the EV speakers, that seems to me just a minor issue given that the speaker is light enough to carry in other ways.

[RandyFF]

Yeah on second thought the Vox speaker is half the weight and lots smaller than the Street Cube EX. If you could get enough bass with the Vox, that sure would be easier to cart around. However the EX is not just a good guitar amp, it does vocals relatively well with its own 3 band eq and reverb, and overall the mixer section is considerably more versatile. And with the dual 8" speakers, plus tweeters for stereo, it's going to pump out a lot more bass, and the Vox doesn't have tweeters. But for half the cost and less weight, the Vox may be the ticket.

 

When I used the EX I ran keyboards into the stereo ins (just a volume control), which left a vocal and a guitar channel for others to plug into. However, truth be told, I've gotten to the point where I usually don't like sharing my amp.

[stoken6]

Hi Gerben,

 

If I understand you correctly, you don't need battery-power for your amp/speaker. I think one lightweight PA speaker would be the best solution for sound quality, and the EV ZXA1 is light (19lb=8.6kg), sounds good - a little hiss, and it's not the absolute loudest you'll ever hear (but louder than any typical busker's amp), but a nice bit of kit. I would definitely compromise on the stereo requirement in your case, and go for a single speaker for weight/portability reasons.

 

We discussed that Vox amp here a year or two ago I think? Consensus was that it won't come anywhere near the expected volume for a 50w amp. From the manual, it draws 3.42A at 19V = 65W, at 30% efficiency that's a 20W amp.

 

I've heard a Fender Rumble and it's loud and light. Probably not top-rank sound quality, but may be adequate. I also like the look of the Korg Konnect, but haven't heard one.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Wrrtyuuiioop]

I tried a Vox VX50 in store and cranked up the volume, it was certainly loud enough in the display room which was church hall size.

 

I had a Fender Rumble 100 for years, it certainly did not seem to be that wattage. Lesser output Rumbles are smaller but still quite a size of crate to lug around.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

You should give this guy a call:

 

[video:youtube]

Like my mom always says, 'it"s just like riding a bicycle: you forget how to make the LFO do what you want and can"t get the decay and release to sound right, and eventually you give up and look for a preset.'

[Reezekeys]

That Vox looks pretty intriguing for a 9 lb amp. I'm thinking it would probably be ok for a wedding ceremony outdoors, or coffee house solo/duo, etc. Two of those would give you stereo for about the same price as that Roland Street Cube EX. Too bad they don't make a matching satellite amp/speaker without the channel controls that could give you that capability and save a few quid. I'm a little skeptical of the all-in-one stereo amps because the few times I've had to put my two K8s close together (due to space reasons), the imaging and sound were definitely compromised.

[16251]

You should give this guy a call:

 

[video:youtube]

Like my mom always says, 'it"s just like riding a bicycle: you forget how to make the LFO do what you want and can"t get the decay and release to sound right, and eventually you give up and look for a preset.'

 

OT - I owned a bike like that when I was a kid. My Raleigh Chopper was orange and was the shizzel.

[Adan]

That Vox looks pretty intriguing for a 9 lb amp. I'm thinking it would probably be ok for a wedding ceremony outdoors, or coffee house solo/duo, etc. Two of those would give you stereo for about the same price as that Roland Street Cube EX.

 

I have 2 of them, and they work well just as you describe. They sound good and punch above their weight.

 

I happened to have this case, which works well for carrying both of them end to end. I put something soft in between them to cushion, power supplies in the side pocket, good to go.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DM7GDE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Very interesting thread. Ive enjoyed reading this thread and also found out about the Vox amp. Always looking at lightweight alternatives and for what it is it sounds interesting. Thanks.

 

Just a thought if you get a trailer make sure it is easy to push it in front of you so you may simply roll it into the gig after disconecting it from the bike. Some trailers for bikes might not have the angles or length on the front bar to be able to do that easily.

 

Doubles as a hand truck or trolley. It be so nice to be able to do that where there are no stairs.

[GerbenD]

Thank you Mike, for some clear recommendations. The Korg Konnect has really good specs indeed, unfortunately my smartphone can't run the app (vintage android system). That said, I may need to upgrade in that department as well. So far the EV speaker seems to come well recommended.

 

As for the Vox VX50KB: Adan, does it provide enough power to be able to play with a drummer and guitar player in a small room (say up to 40 square meters or 430 square feet)? Our playing is closer to jazz than to rock volumes. (Though I wouldn't be surprised to find out someday that the drummer has fusion aspirations)

 

And Randy, the website says it has a coaxial speaker, which means it has a tweeter build into the woofer I suppose? I do not know if this would make much of a difference in sound though.

 

And yeah Aussiekeys, I'll be sure to keep that in mind. Deciding on a good size is probably the first step, but convenience can go a long way.

[EricBarker]

I live in Honolulu, and around here, everyone carries their surfboard by bike or moped. They make surfboard racks for bikes. With a decent protective bag, I'm sure a decent-sized keyboard would transfer nicely in one of those things! Unfortunately I've always been a weighted-88 key guy, so that's out of the question for me, but I have ridden around with a keytar a few times. Anyway, you should look into that, sounds like it would be perfect for your needs, then you could just strap-on a mid-sized amp to your back or to a rear-wheel rack.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Mr Gerben regards your EV ZXA1 speaker considerations.

 

I actually use one in my band but as my monitor for the PA as i found it wasnt loud enough for my keyboard amp when i joined a few years ago.

 

This really surprised me being this band is a bunch of old farts who dont play loud at all although the original guitarist when i joined did have annoying tonal choices and maybe this was the problem. (Cut thru your ears like a banchee because of his tone not volume) He was a 50s singer / rock and roller who did not understand guitar or amp tone but it was his band.

 

Maybe that was to blame for the EV not being able to cut thru. Fortunately the new guitarist is a guitarist first not a singer first who we dont have any problems tonally or volume wise.

 

So did the single EV not have enough volume purely because of the first guitarists tone.??

 

Perhaps it may be loud enough now.

 

Presently it monitors also my keys which go thru the PA as my band mates need me in their monitors. And as a monitor for vocals and keys its admirable and i love it. No volume problem at all.

 

So at the time of joining this band i quickly replaced it with a new Hartke keyboard amp which is medium sized and plenty of volume. But its heavier than i want only due to my circumstance. But Fine to lug for a healthy keyboardist but too much for your bike or trailer. It sounds good and loud enough with plenty of headroom. I feel happy with its performance. And recomend it.

 

The EV i had bought years before this band from reading about it on here but only first used it live upon joining this band. It had great tonal quality but disappointed me in volume which i dont understand why as it was well recomended volume wise.

 

As a PA monitor with keys going thru i find it excellent. At the time for keys i felt i woukd have needed 2 of these to cut thru the old fart band.

 

I am still confuddled why as its works fine as a monitor. Maybe trying it with the new guitarist might change things as he has a better tonal eloquence over previous guitarist.

 

Using it solo or small duo it will shine and i wouldnt hesitate using it for vocals and keys including any drum machine or midi file stuff if you use those. If i was able to do solo stuff again id not use anything else but 2 of these EVs. Id even recomend using just one for many small solo gigs. Go to a party just take one.

 

A loud band id try it out before commiting to it. Probably 2 is the safest bet.

[Reezekeys]

The Alto TS308 might be a consideration, it's 20lbs/9.2kg and 2000 watts. On paper, it should be loud enough for the kind of gigs you describe. 230 at Thomann.

 

https://www.altoprofessional.com/products/ts308

[Adan]

 

As for the Vox VX50KB: Adan, does it provide enough power to be able to play with a drummer and guitar player in a small room (say up to 40 square meters or 430 square feet)? Our playing is closer to jazz than to rock volumes. (Though I wouldn't be surprised to find out someday that the drummer has fusion aspirations)

 

.

 

Absolutely. One of them will do that. I've done it many times. With a pair, you could probably keep up with the average loud rock band in a small room. I haven't tried that though.

[RandyFF]

As with many speakers, you only get their full output if you have a mixer, it can boost the signal going into the speaker considerably. Many keyboards have notoriously low output.

 

In checking out the Alto TS308, which looks like it's a great price, I came across a new speaker from JBL.

JBL IRX 108BBT

This little guy weighs 17.4 pounds! Going for $329. Has 2 easy carry handles and has Bluetooth. Personally, having BT in one of these speakers is quite the bonus. For example, if you record your rehearsals you have instant playback thru a decent speaker, as well as a party speaker.

[mate stubb]

In checking out the Alto TS308, which looks like it's a great price, I came across a new speaker from JBL.

JBL IRX 108BBT

This little guy weighs 17.4 pounds! Going for $329.

 

Specs claim 54Hz-20kHz (±3dB.) That's just crazy talk - I'm sceptical, but awesome if true!

[Reezekeys]

As with many speakers, you only get their full output if you have a mixer, it can boost the signal going into the speaker considerably. Many keyboards have notoriously low output.

 

And if said keyboard has eq and efx built-in (as many do), there is no harm in trying the mic-level input of a PPA. With careful adjustments of both the keyboard's output level and the speaker's input level (and usage of a pad if there is one), it should be possible to get all the gain you need from doing it this way. That's exactly what I did for many years working in a loud function band with a few different keyboards & laptops going to Mackie SRM450s, later replaced by QSC K8s. I've never needed a mixer.

[GerbenD]

Wow Eric, in the Netherlands we carry pretty much anything on our bike, but a surfboard, that is something I've never seen. I'll have to check if surfboards are about the same thickness as a keyboard.

 

Thanks for your considerations on the EV's Aussiekeys, the Hartke is probably too heavy indeed.

 

Yeah Reezekeys, I did take a look at the Alto TS308, the specifications really seem great. I am also considering two of the older TS208's which are quite a bit lighter and less than half the cost. It does lack inputs though, the frequency range starts at 75 instead of 62 and less volume overall (113 vs 126 dB).

 

Thanks Adan, good to know.

 

And that JBL does look pretty good on paper Randy. Personally I do not make use of blue tooth all that much, but I suppose it does make it more versatile. It is very new so there have been very few reviews so far.

 

As for the use of a mixer to bring up the volume, I suppose I'll try without one first?

[PianoMan51]

I don"t know what others think, but I play only low volume gigs and I wouldn"t buy a speaker that only delivered 113dB.