AnotherScott Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Interestingly, I bought a P-125 for my mother-in-law at Christmas after trying the P-125 and P-45 at GC. Even though they both have the same action, the P-125 had a much better feel - it seemed much more playable. It was then that I suspected there are different ways to implement the same key action. Yes, at this point I think there are too many reports to ignore, the GHS varies a lot, as does the Korg NH (and RH3, though that may be more a matter of whether or not it has aftertouch, I'm not sure). With the Korg NH, I've noticed differences even from one Kross 88 to another, so at least in that case, I don't think it's inherent to which board its in, rather I think there are different runs that vary slightly (perhaps coming from different manufacturing facilities?). With GHS, I've definitely noticed differences between models, though I don't know if I've ever come across two of the same model that feel different. In the case of all of these, I've found some that I felt I could be reasonably happy with and ones that I really didn't like. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coker Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Anotherscott, I hear you. I was ready to pull the trigger on a MODX8 after sitting down playing AP for an hour at GC, feeling good about its action and desirous of reasonable organs and some other sounds for layering. BUT I started feeling a little squeamish about it, remembering the bad impression of its action by some bloggers, and just then the RD88 announcement appeared. Then predictive complaints about its action started. Sheesh! And to think that I lived with a Kurzweil PC88 for so many years with its less than stellar action. Quote CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I suspect the trend towards more heavy and sluggish actions is that the lighter ones are less sturdy and come back under warranty far more often. That's expensive for the maker and the dealer. This supports my other theory that they are making actions for rocker players to pound on. The shorter pivot is also a trend in the wrong direction, imo. This new Yamaha looks to have a short pivot in the photos I have seen. Quote Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 850 of Harry's solo piano arrangements of standards and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 RD-2000. Heavy and sluggish on the return. It"s fine for chording/comping, ballads, rhythmic stuff. Tiring for soloing and notier rep like classical and jazz. It"s also a big heavy and deep case. I think our own community has driven the developers to more compact and lighter. The weekend, semi pro and pro players keep talking about shaving weight and width for the car. So, smart to put the wheels up top. But personally, I"m not interested in shaving depth for convenience because it shortens pivot point and ruins the feel of a hammer swing for piano like timing and dynamic control. And, it creates a dead spot by the fall board. The RD-88 has peaked my interested. But I notice it"s shallow - which is concerning. If it doesn"t play like a typical PH4 because they buggered the pivot point it"s a pass. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I've realized it takes me more than 15 minutes of playing to fully realize how much work weighted digital piano actions can be. I've fooled myself for over it for years. Quote Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 850 of Harry's solo piano arrangements of standards and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Was back in the GC just now - CP88. Plays like a dream. Nice swing of the hammer feel, fast return for restrike. The RH3 on the Kronos 8 is decent. GHS on the MODX has shorter feeling drop, not as swingy but not dead spot at the fall board. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 So, that $1200 RD-88 gets 3000+ Zen Core sounds. Color me interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Getting a closer look at it - I do notice they"ve shaved the length by placing wheels up, great. But it also looks like they shaved depth - I hope that doesn"t mean messing with the pivot point of the PH4. Dave seems to have had a hot minute with it at NAMM and isn"t complaining about the feel - it"s noisy there so one might not notice a dead spot by the fall board. Can"t wait to play this one for myself in a local shop. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 But those wheels seem a bit of an afterthought, as if they"re added onto the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 But those wheels seem a bit of an afterthought, as if they"re added onto the board. I"m not sure about that - because the concept or sell here is the visual feedback from MainStage with a better quality PH4 action. So it"s meant to be a controller - and it needs at the least Pitch and Mod if it isn"t going to have extensive pedal inputs. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Indeed, I meant that they seem to have been added on top, as it doesn"t look very integrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 NAMM in a nutshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piano Man Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 This year, I am making a real effort just to enjoy the gear I"ve already got. More playing. Less Buying! Quote Kurzweil PC3x Technics SX-P50 Korg X3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 But it also looks like they shaved depth - I hope that doesn"t mean messing with the pivot point of the PH4. If they changed the pivot point, it means they changed the length of the key, and I'd be surprised if they used the same nomenclature for keys that are that physically different. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 But it also looks like they shaved depth - I hope that doesn"t mean messing with the pivot point of the PH4. If they changed the pivot point, it means they changed the length of the key, and I'd be surprised if they used the same nomenclature for keys that are that physically different. Will have to try it at the shop. Hoping PH4 means PH4 in Roland land. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Also wondering if the RD-88 has particle board underneath. The old RD pianos did, not sure about the newer ones (or the FA 08 for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayriss Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I don't believe the FA-08 has particle board underneath (my old DS-88 had a plastic base). The RD-88 is lighter than those two boards so I imagine it would have a plastic base too. Quote Nord Electro 6D • Roland Juno-DS61 Yamaha S90 ES • Roland FP-30X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarsHarner Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Has anyone commented on the PHA4 action that it has? Interestingly, I bought a P-125 for my mother-in-law at Christmas after trying the P-125 and P-45 at GC. Even though they both have the same action, the P-125 had a much better feel - it seemed much more playable. It was then that I suspected there are different ways to implement the same key action. I would agree this is the case- I am quite pleased with my P-125 as a whole as a portable unit- although not a Kawai action or even Casio in some instances- the mix of dynamics, speaker sound and clearness made the P-125 my choice over the ES110. In terms of the RD-88 to me it seems in some aspects slightly overpriced- granted it is 29 pounds but for $300 more one can get a P515. However does the RD-88 have 4 speakers? The Yamaha has 4 and it makes a difference (even at 7w x 2 channels it is decent in a room ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarsHarner Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 This year, I am making a real effort just to enjoy the gear I"ve already got. More playing. Less Buying! I'm trying to do that over time- in my opinion as the decades go on improvements and upgrades can be more and more subtle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I don't believe the FA-08 has particle board underneath (my old DS-88 had a plastic base). The RD-88 is lighter than those two boards so I imagine it would have a plastic base too. Yes! Thanks @kayriss. @LarsHarner: 4 (2 upwards tweeters and 2 downward woofers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 When the latest Casios came out, the GC store I went to heard the Roland FP 30 I thought the FP 30 was miles ahead of the Casio as far as the acoustic piano sample was concerned, The " plunk" in the Casio mid range has always been a huge turnoff for me I took the FP 30 home and found I liked it even more when I adjusted the touch setting so that the overtones wouldn't trigger too soon. Is the RD 88 using the same keybed as the FP30? Also, did anyone test the RD 88 at NAMM? BTW, no one can hear anything at NAMM so smuggle some headphones in if want to hear a particular instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 In terms of the RD-88 to me it seems in some aspects slightly overpriced- granted it is 29 pounds but for $300 more one can get a P515. Well, that's still 25% more. But really, the boards are quite different. The Yamaha may have the edge as a pure piano, but the Roland is in another league as a MIDI controller, with its definable knobs, pitch and mod wheels, Mainstage integration. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelsz Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 P-515 is good for its keyboard action and voices like pianos, rhodes, wurly, church organ. But it doesn't have any pitch bend, modulation, dedicated expression pedal input, no sliders/knobs for zone volumes, even registrations are absent without external app! It's portable digital piano, but it's hard to find any "stageness" of it. It's the most "stage" because of it is a slab. Quote P-515, PC4-7, CK61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 The Rd 88 has definitely got me curious. It will probably be awhile before they hit the shops but... the weight and price are certainly attractive. I have not been wild about recent Roland Rhodes samples however, although I can imagine that the RD 2000 has pretty good Rhodes. Hopefully this transfers over to the RD88. It also must have organs. Although I guess everyone's idea of ideal organ sounds is completely different. I could live with just a good acoustic sample and good EP's. I have come to not expect more than that. The P 515 is not my idea of a good gigging board. 29 pound is more like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Roland starting to get their copy and media in order on the RD-88... Sound Cloud Patch Demos Sound GeneratorZEN-Core SuperNATURAL Piano SuperNATURAL E.PianoParts3 partsTonesScene: 400 Tone: Over 3,000EffectsZone Multi-effects: 3 systems, 90 types Zone EQ: 3 systems Zone Tone Color: 3 systems Scene Multi-effects (IFX): 90 types Sympathetic Resonance Chorus/Delay: 8 types Reverb: 6 types Master Compressor Master EQ Input Reverb Input EQOther FunctionsFavorite Rhythm Pattern Song Player MIDI Master Keyboard DAW ControlOTHER SECTIONControllersAssignable Wheel x 2 Assignable Control knob x 8 Master Volume knob Damper Pedal Assignable Pedal x 2Rated Power Output6 W x 2SpeakersFull Range 12 cm x 2 Tweeter 2 cm x 2DisplayGraphic LCD 128 x 64 dotsExternal Storage DeviceUSB flash driveConnectorsPHONES jack: stereo 1/4-inch phone type OUTPUT jacks (L/MONO, R): 1/4-inch phone type MIC INPUT jack: 1/4-inch phone type LINE INPUT Jack: Stereo miniature phone type Pedal (DAMPER, FC1, FC2) jacks: TRS phone type MIDI OUT jack USB MEMORY port USB COMPUTER port (supports USB MIDI/AUDIO) DC IN jackPower SupplyDC 12 V: AC adaptorCurrent Draw1,500 mAAccessoriesOwner's manual Leaflet "USING THE UNIT SAFELY" AC adaptor Power cord Pedal SwitchOptions (sold separately)Stand (KS-12, KS-10Z) Pedal (DP-2, DP-10, EV-5, RPU-3) Carrying Bag: (CB-88RL, CB-76RL) Headphones USB Flash drive (*)SIZE AND WEIGHTDimensions1,284 (W) x 258 (D) x 159 (H) mm 50-9/16 (W) x 10-3/16 (D) x 6-5/16 (H) inchesWeight13.5 kg / 29 lbs 13 oz (excluding AC adaptor) Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickzjamm Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. Quote You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJR Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 I'm very interested in the rd as a controller for my computer setup, and Bonus that is has its own sounds and speakers! But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!! Sorry, rant over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 I didn't think any of the sounds were even decent on Soundcloud, or vids I've seen from NAMM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 There RD-2000 is loaded with bread and butter sounds - how many of them we like is another story. Obviously the RD-88 at its price point is going to have a narrower set. As mentioned a few posts ago - having a few decent timbres on board with speakers is handy - but I"m mainly interested in the PH4 action at this price and weight with audio/midi interface and mapped controls with visual feedback from MainStage. That being the case - the biggest question for me is - is the USB audio interface class compliant on Mac OSX or does it use a Roland driver? How low can you set the buffer with it and is the DA conversion any good? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelsz Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it. PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length. Quote P-515, PC4-7, CK61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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