Osmose keyboard

[GovernorSilver]

1 hour ago, pjd said:

 

Can't wait for a drunk to spill beer into one... 😄 Thank goodness I don't play bars anymore.

 

Totally agree with all points. The more I delve into MPE products, the more I realize the "boutique" nature of this market segment.

 

I had a friend -- a successful software guy -- start a business that ventured into hardware. He was honest enough to admit how naive he was and how many different ways a hardware product can sink a business. A team can build a working prototype, but its the "mundane" stuff like supply chain, inventory, manufacturing, QA, warranty, returns, service/repair that can kill you.

 

Hey, hey, I certainly wish you and early adopters the best.

 

-- pj

 

 

Any gear we could bring to a gig is vulnerable to our proverbial drunk - let's not kid ourselves.   Mr. Drunk doesn't care if you brought an Osmose, a Rhodes, a nice Hammond clonewheel, a crappy old M-Audio keyboard plugged into a cheap laptop, or whatever.   

 

Whatever you use to protect your gig gear now from your drunken fans - a tarp, hired thugs, mean guard dog, whatever - should work with Osmose too.

 

Thanks for the good wish!

[uhoh7]

After I watched Tim's video (and read the comments explaining the "crashing" was loose power cord, not firmware), I went back and watched the Sonicstate Video. Tim was very interested with the pressure glide....as set at 1 semitone. He had not yet figured out how to turn the knob on that, which is shown really clearly at Sonicstate. But Tim's focus on it helped me understand the presentation at Sonicstate better. The portamento is usually at your fingertips, one knob will effect to pressure glide range which goes from a semitone to ? At least an octave, but I think 2 or more. Or Off. 

 

Here is nice quick one, ripping around a bit:

 

I do get to break in a new (to me) exotic controller this eve, the Yamaha WX-5 wind controller and it's VL70m sound engine (turbo), circa early 2K. They both arrived with beautiful printed manuals previous owners kept pristine. Ahh those were the days.... And I saw another new Osmose-like "game changer" I hadn't heard of: the Emeo. It's almost as hard to get, too

 

 

Like Osmose, it's a $300 pre-order, refundable. Delivery in late Feb....could be delayed....hey that never happens, right? Yes, I did it again. LOL Only because the Sax guys are as nuts about the Emeo as the Keyboard players (who actually tried one) are about the Osmose. 

[stoken6]

That Emeo is fascinating. First thoughts: if you're building a MIDI wind controller, why go to the effort of getting a real sax body (with all the complexity of the moving-part hardware)? And then I realised - saxists obviously care as much about the feel of the instrument as we keyboard players. This is kind of the sax equivalent of the Yamaha N-series hybrid pianos, and I'm very happy it exists.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[nursers]

Just pulled the trigger on an Osmose - local stock available in April (hopefully)

[GovernorSilver]

Katsunori UJIIE of course got one.

 

 

[uhoh7]

On 1/11/2023 at 3:00 PM, stoken6 said:

That Emeo is fascinating. First thoughts: if you're building a MIDI wind controller, why go to the effort of getting a real sax body (with all the complexity of the moving-part hardware)? And then I realised - saxists obviously care as much about the feel of the instrument as we keyboard players. This is kind of the sax equivalent of the Yamaha N-series hybrid pianos, and I'm very happy it exists.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

TY, sir   What the EMEO does not have, but maybe later is "bite control" I just got a Yamaha WX5, which does, and it's little JV1010 sized tone generator, the VL70m. My first EWI. I love the thing! It was discontinued due to safety concerns in EU (Spit + Elec = maybe liability). A real shame. 

 

But it is certainly not the same as a Sax or Clarinet. It's a unique thing. I even found the original, the WX7 in Japan and it's coming. It's kind of a work of art. The WX5 is considered maybe the best Yamaha at least, and maybe the best EWI, from a practical standpoint, so far, by quite a few players...to this day. 

 

But as so many posts here show: it's the action, silly! The action on the WX5 is plastic and not very sexy. Works well though. The EMEO is all action, with a focus on Practicing, not always easy with a Sax. Here is another brand new option along the same lines, much cheaper of course, cause you use your own Clarinet.

 

 

and once upon a time there was the synthophone....website seems abandoned, but exists. It went inside your sax and could tell....alot. Many YTs on that one.

 

But the bottom line is: for synths the keyboard has ruled, despite it's expressive limitations with single notes. And even now in 2023 there are no controllers with the expressive capability of a violin or saxophone. Obviously no serious clones, but even "something along those lines" the options remain primitive compared to the potential technology available. Keyboards really....we got wheels and the old AT, which is nice and some guys really do cool stuff yes. Like Hendrix? No. 

 

The Osmose is breaking that glass ceiling, and hopefully we'll be able to use it just as effectively on our favorite hardware as the Eaganmatrix. It's a keyboard +, unlike the Rise or Linnstrument, which are not "keyboards" but something totally new to learn, impressive as they are. They are fundamentally niche...today. The Osmose is like Dylan plugged in. Folk....but very very fresh. 

 

Interesting Conversation at 22:ish

 

 

[uhoh7]

This is pretty good:

 

 

He admits at one point.... Osmose ruins all your other boards

[uhoh7]

This should be good:

 

 

and.....

 

 

 

[uhoh7]

Shoebridge may have finally.....opened the manual:

 

 

[Nathanael_I]

Here's a look at just how capable the Eagen Matrix is from an  expression standpoint. 

 

https://www.hakenaudio.com/mpe

 

The early returns seem to indicate that VIs and external synths can map what they can of this data, but the Osmose looks to be well ahead of the capabilities that other devices have.  It's highest level of expression will be the internal engine.

[Nathanael_I]

I got a nice email saying that I should get mine at the end of Feb.  Looking forward to this one a lot. 

[uhoh7]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:44 PM, Nathanael_I said:

Here's a look at just how capable the Eagen Matrix is from an  expression standpoint. 

 

https://www.hakenaudio.com/mpe

 

The early returns seem to indicate that VIs and external synths can map what they can of this data, but the Osmose looks to be well ahead of the capabilities that other devices have.  It's highest level of expression will be the internal engine.

 

Great link. Lots on whining about the EaganMatrix....Nick called it "impenetrable".....after how much actual time learning it? We are all bandwidth challenged these days, and there are only many minutes between obligations. That's one reason 8 year olds learn music much faster  But as your link shows, the documentation is pretty good. The videos are....tough. However as these get into the wild I think we will see some very good, to the point tutorials. I just got a 2600....and in the time from release to now....well it's pretty easy to find great videos about many aspects of the thing. 

 

More to the point is this, which relates directly to your link, and shows exactly why the Osmose-Haken marriage is a peerless match:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/24/f1/5d/c38e616348b657/US20070234884A1.pdf

 

There is no other synth today which can leverage the new action as well, at least that I have heard of. 

[Nathanael_I]

4 hours ago, uhoh7 said:

 

Great link. Lots on whining about the EaganMatrix....Nick called it "impenetrable".....after how much actual time learning it?

This is the actual issue.  A violin or an electric bass has a physically defined touch & expression capability.  One is physically touching the sound producing thing (a string in this case).  In the case of a synthesizer, one is directly controlling nothing - until it is mapped and scaled.  Since timbre is not fixed, each sound could and likely does benefit from different mapping and scaling.  The Eagen matrix took this seriously and gives more control over more parameters than any synth made.  It has been paired so far with the most expressive surface yet made (the Continuum fingerboard), or at least the only one that has been capable of classical music levels of finesse. 

 

I have a John Bowen Solaris.  It has 1200 parameters per patch if you actually wanted to configure them all.  It's a digital modular synth in many respects. The envelopes are delightful and can be modulated (ie, velocity can control the attack rate, release velocity the decay).  You can even pick the % that these affect the envelopes.  It sounds like a lot, but once you understand what is possible and sort it on a patch or two, the touch response comes alive when you get it "right" for your hand. 

 

That is what this engine promises.  It is deep.  It is powerful.  It offers in return the full measure of musical expression and subtlety.  I think that one of the things that has  plagued synthesizers is that they are not particularly worthwhile to master.  They come and go.  Software becomes unavailable, synths wear out, get dropped, etc.  Their controls aren't consistent from board to board.  Mastering a piano is highly worthwhile due to the consistency of the interface.  Putting 10k hours into a single synth would likely render it useless.  They just haven't been able to reward in the way that professional acoustic instruments do.   And like it or not, the kind of sophistication of the Eagen Matrix is likely necessary to solve for this.  Modeling acoustic instrument levels of expression is just going to take more than an envelope and a few LFOs...

 

I'm sure that folk will sort this.  A year is a long time with the hive mind of the internet feeding off of every cool thing someone does and posts... Good, durably interesting, expressive timbres are rare.   This is an instrument that doesn't need 5000 such sounds.  One or two good sounds that someone truly bonds with may be enough to make it worth a few hundred hours to really get "that sound" to sing.  If it does that, and raises the game of what's expected, that would be great. 

[Nathanael_I]

I suspect that there will be "templates" for common sorts of things: fast attack, percussive things vs. evolving pad, for example.  A lot of the "base controls" could be largely pre-set, then the oscillators & filters adjusted to get rough timbre, then "know where to tweak" to get the finger connection just right.  I suspect approached this way - "how to do I create a template that works..." will yield good progress.

 

I had to do this with the Schmidt 8-voice.  The presets are not great for my taste, and I started finding "base combinations" that I could turn a few knobs and get half a dozen useful sounds.  That's when I started to feel in control of the instrument, and felt like I was finding what it was good at vs. just trying to emulate patches on other instruments.

[GovernorSilver]

I wonder how many people think dealing with the EaganMatrix is required if in actuality they just want to tweak something basic like wet-dry mix or velocity curve.

 

Perhaps they don't have much faith in the onboard display and knobs being able to satisfy those basic tweaking needs.   Or maybe they forgot those things are there?

 

None of the complaints I have seen so far offered any specifics, which led me to believe they weren't trying to do any serious sound design on EaganMatrix- they were just looking for the aforementioned basic adjustments.

[uhoh7]

 

In this video the eurorack is the backup track, Osmose is not connected, unless I have it wrong. However Midi to CV capabilities have been recently expanded in a number of modules like the ExpertSleepers FH-2 and a bunch more, with all sorts of routing options so the Osmose could send all manner of CV from it's deep AT and lateral motion, and sliders. I just got a 2600, which is the most fun I have had yet with a synth...I don't have a eurorack, but I think the new Taiga could be an incredible match for the Osmose, as it has MIDI to CV on board, apparently with complex options:

 

Today we not limited by one simple midi to CV connection. The new converters make it easy to map controllers to multiple parameters, meaning one could easily change rates and connections in real time. 

 

The wildcard is the chip market. Chip shortages are real and have effected eurorack and Haken Audio. It's entirely possible these systems will need to be used with different chips for this reason, and you can imagine the nightmares. 

 

The future is uncertain, and it's entirely possible that many current eurorack modules and this version of Osmose will move quickly to "classic" status....or not. Some think the era of super cheap chips is passing, but what is for sure is.....you cannot get many things right now. 

 

Like this:

 

But he many have a eurorack powered version still available...

 

Bottomline: Osmose comes ready to play with a fantastic set of custom patches. Underneath those an incredible Synth which is highly tuned to the Osmose expression, and ready to edit as users learn it, if they can. 

 

But the fundamental innovation, the action with long travel Poly AT, and lateral key motion, for those willing to hook up the wires, will offer a new way to play.....almost every synth, leveraged via the new MIDI processing options like MIDIhub, and complex midi to CV conversion options, these are in effect as powerful as the EaganMatrix....for those willing to dive deep and get past the first curve. 

 

The trick is not to let the diving take over the playing

[uhoh7]

What are going to be the best alternatives to the Eagan Matrix for the Osmose? 

 

Here is a candidate...which I especially like since it's open source:

 

 

SurgeXT can obviously handle some MPE....

 

The only trouble is it has to run on something....and you know what that means..... What I love about old romplers and new analog gear....you hit a key, you hear a sound..usually. I suspect that's going to be true of the onboard Eagan Matrix. 

 

Doubtless an hysterical concern: I often read good latency fixes on this forum. Why it's such a turn-off for a non-contender like me....I don't know. One irrational factor in my late life obssesion with acoustic instruments....it's hard to beat a mechanical/biological signal flow in a small room. Even headphones can put me off after 20 mins....which is weird since I spent alot time in kayak and motorbike helmets..headphones set off that claustrophobia, but I've been collecting speakers forever...so it's OK. I got a Blue Meanie, and it sounds very good...but I thought I felt a little latency the other night....LOL

[GovernorSilver]

I tried Surge XT with the Joue Play.   I had a hard time figuring out how to use it.  On the plus side, it's open source so I can't cry/whine over spending money on it.

Mssr.  Jarre's most recent rig tour, including Osmose.  

 

 

[uhoh7]

8 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I tried Surge XT with the Joue Play.   I had a hard time figuring out how to use it.  On the plus side, it's open source so I can't cry/whine over spending money on it.

Mssr.  Jarre's most recent rig tour, including Osmose.  

Great link, Thank you! He was my fav electronic guy back in the day. 

 

I just ordered one of these this eve, it's a Haken designed 5-pin to CV converter (polyphonic) made for the usual suspects and Osmose! 

https://www.hakenaudio.com/voltage-converter

 

Open source is coming along nicely. I am loving the Aeolean Organ on the Zynthian V4 kit, now that I figured out how to work it. It sounds incredible to my ears and I listen to quite a few organs. I have been going through all the basic pipes and mixtures...far exceeds my unrealistic expectations. No latency. I fear it will cost me some 30 note MIDI pedals. Right now I'm using Elka DMP-18, but I have a big set on the Hammond I'm learning, and really enjoy.

[Nathanael_I]

Just completed the transaction… mine should be on the way soon!  I assume we will see a big spike in videos as the US receives its first shipment. 

[Lady Gaia]

12 hours ago, Nathanael_I said:

Just completed the transaction… mine should be on the way soon!  I assume we will see a big spike in videos as the US receives its first shipment. 

You're not alone!  I completed my order the last day of February and am eagerly awaiting delivery.  I'm sure you're right that we'll see a whole new round of videos from early adopters and I look forward to it.  One of my favorite videos was only a week ago, eschewing all the usual technical discussion and exaggerated demonstrations for a much more musically appealing demonstration from someone who had only had theirs for a few hours at the time.

[mauriziodececco]

I finally had the occasion to play the Osmose for around 15/20 min.

 

The first reaction is “Why the hell nobody invented this before ?”. The point is that the extended keybed experience feel like a natural extension of the standard one, not only concerning the horizontal note pitch bend but also the incredible aftertouch and the note response that can start when you touch the key and not when the key is completely pressed.

 

I felt a lot less natural the legato/glissato and very difficult to master; an other minor point: i realised that as a piano player i do not control my  fingers horizontal speed when my hands move around the keyboard ; the result is that in some situations I get out of tunes notes by pitch bending them; but this seems easy to control once you understand the problem .

 

About the sounds: anything plucked/percussive is great, including epianos; not all acoustic emulation are credible; for what i do it would be an incredible complement of my Modx, but surely not enough alone unless used with a computer.

For composition /sound design work it would be useful but I personally think that its nature make it a great live/performance instrument while something more experimental like a roli could give more options in the studio , even if requiring a more significant effort to master.

Just some quick impressions 

Maurizio

[uhoh7]

Jack is at it again....probably the most convincing case our world has changed yet made by anyone.

 

 

 

 

And Mr Kram should have his right about now....he's all over it:

 

 

[UnderGroundGr]

Can an owner tell me about the keyboard feel? It's like a synth semi weighted action? I have tendonitis and i cannot play with heavy actions...

[Nathanael_I]

It is not hammer-weighted and is not a piano keyboard.  It is a synth-type action of their own design.  I can comment further when mine arrives (US shipping hasn't started yet, but is just about to). 

[uhoh7]

1 hour ago, UnderGroundGr said:

Can an owner tell me about the keyboard feel? It's like a synth semi weighted action? I have tendonitis and i cannot play with heavy actions...

 

It is not a heavy action. Also, depending on your condition, the deep aftertouch may reduce tendon stress. For example, if your tendons are aggravated by using a track pad on a laptop, the lack of resistance in the Osmose should ease that. But as you know, the hand/forearm is a complex system involving very long nerves which may be impinged and "trigger fingers" etc, and some suffer from a combination of issues, and some might be made worse. But the "hard floor" of key travel is increasingly regarded as a problem and some teachers are reducing "holding" where weight is held by a single finger while other keys are played. The give of the Osmose should soften that common problem, I speculate. Time will tell.

 

In any case, I guess it will not be too difficult, for anyone who has issues with the Osmose, to find a new owner. 

[GovernorSilver]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:48 AM, UnderGroundGr said:

Can an owner tell me about the keyboard feel? It's like a synth semi weighted action? I have tendonitis and i cannot play with heavy actions...

 

Maurizio posted his impressions on March 2

[uhoh7]

Got a email:

 "Your instrument has passed quality control and sits ready in the warehouse"

 

Now I pray it can survive shipping to the edge of wilderness. I wonder if it got the latest firmware in QC...

[Lady Gaia]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:37 AM, uhoh7 said:

Now I pray it can survive shipping to the edge of wilderness. I wonder if it got the latest firmware in QC...

Several recipients of the earliest North American deliveries have commented that it does not come with current firmware, so count on the 15-minute update as part of getting to know the instrument.  I'm still waiting for my shipping notification Real Soon Now while gazing longingly at the case that arrived week before last.

[Phil Aiken]

Took delivery yesterday. It indeed does not come with current firmware, but in its delivery state you can still turn it on and play presets. You just can't do any on board adjustments.

Updating the firmware is painless - they have an installer app. Getting the Eganmatrix software and the Osmose working together is a little more convoluted. Read the instructions carefully - both from Expressive E and Haken.

 

So the verdict? Worth the wait. The default bend settings are pretty conservative and I find it comfortable increasing the range to a whole step (from a half) and loosening up the "stabilization". After changing that it is already pretty intuitive to control single notes and not inadvertently bend unwanted notes. The single most striking feature is being able to manually create envelopes per note. The keyboard is always aware of the current key depth, and it is a beautiful thing to fade notes in and out by key depth. They call it pressure, but I think of it as "depth" myself.  This is super expressive and intuitive.

 

Pressure glide, in addition to the more dramatic uses shown in demos, is super useful when the active range is set small, so playing an interval and doing a roll-off on one note gives a nice pedal steel like effect.  

I have not yet used it as a controller for external software or hardware. The presets are fairly varied, and I haven't gotten through anything close to all of them. There is a CS-80 named patch that one can get lost in for hours. I think I prefer sounds that evoke acoustic instruments rather than emulate them. There is a lot in there to unpack.

I think I will settle on mastering and tweaking a small subset of presets, a software synth or two, and have one dedicated MPE hardware synth to use with it. I wish my OB6 was a module. I have a P10 module that responds to poly aftertouch, but not fully MPE, at least last I checked. This is really making me covet a Deckard's Dream, but that's for another day.