Osmose keyboard

[uhoh7]

Here we go, nobody has come close to explaining why this thing is such a big deal so well, and he makes the most important points early:

I hope Osmose will accelerate the appearance of other MPE keyboards and synths tweaked to take advantage of them. Studiologic, are you listening? Supersledge! Wiggle is optional….if that’s too hard. Loopop really shows exactly how the polyphonic vertical control is the biggest thing...followed by AT and finally wiggle. I think that means a current action could be quickly adapted to stand well out from the conventional competition in performance. MPE....not just letters and strange controllers anymore.....MPE is in the house.

 

This also hot off the press and very good:

 

[mate stubb]

I finally got the Add To Cart button. Yay!

[UnderGroundGr]

On 4/9/2023 at 3:17 AM, uhoh7 said:

 

 

In this review he said that the feel of the keys are between semi-weighted and fully weighted. Has anyone of the owners noticed this?

[Nathanael_I]

No. They are unweighted. There’s no piano action feel or weight. The aftertouch is very deep, as has been mentioned. One “pushes” into it, but that’s after the standard “key dip” that is a pretty synth like feel. 

[uhoh7]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:12 PM, Nathanael_I said:

No. They are unweighted. There’s no piano action feel or weight. The aftertouch is very deep, as has been mentioned. One “pushes” into it, but that’s after the standard “key dip” that is a pretty synth like feel. 

 

The keys don't feel like anything else in my house, and I have a bunch of actions, from real piano to the famous Fatar TP8s, and a B3, bla bla, not to say I deserve them, in terms of skill.

 

My MOXF6 is way lighter, but the NUMA C2X is heavier. The Osmose keys are not heavy, but the springs are long and you notice them. However you have options, none of my other boards offer, as to how the keys respond to touch, which you change quickly in the settings. If you are tired of pushing you can put them into a state where blowing on them makes a sound. The AT is still "down there", of course. 

 

Players can be very picky about keys, we know, and some hate the Osmose, some say it's making their arms ache. I don't get the feeling these players are experimenting alot with settings or playing styles, but whatever. I like both a real piano and a hammond. You can't get any different than those two extremes...until now, because the Osmose is another flavor entirely, I hate to say

 

It's a flavor which let's you bring a synth to life, voice by voice, but it's demanding of attention, compared to what we are used to. Which is why it's fun to go back and forth from old to new, for me. Paso a paso. 

 

I'm working now to get foot access to the "macros" which are just virtual knobs to change some aspect of the patch, determined by whoever made it. They can be pretty interesting, and usually your expression pedal is already mapped to one of them. But with these keys....the left hand wants in. Reaching to the encoders is a buzz-kill for me. The macros, TYG, are cc accessible, so I'm looking to make my self a row of expression pedals, or program a FCB1010, which ever I can manage with the least mental pain. 

 

I still have not loaded the Haken editor, but I'm watching the new videos with interest. 

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

I got to spend a bit of time playing the Osmose at the NAMM show.

 

Quite the unique instrument. 

 

dB

[Lady Gaia]

I'm not normally a fan of the "sprung" approach to simulating weighted keys but it works so very well with the EaganMatrix engine.  Without it you wouldn't be able to play swells or gently fade sounds the way you can on the Osmose.  It's a revelation in that regard, and it's clear they spent a lot of time trying to find the right amount of resistance so that it's not overly fatiguing.  I did finally spend some time playing a few software instruments as well using the poly aftertouch mode.  It didn't take long to get used to and it's quite capable in this regard – but I did immediately feel a little less connection due to the fact that notes trigger so much lower in their travel and you lose all the expressive potential of the initial pressure range.

 

I've also started digging into the EaganMatrix editor and it's evident there's an enormous amount of potential behind the frustratingly obtuse design decisions.  I'm going to put a limiter on that channel because it's far too easy to get wildly unexpected results while exploring what's possible.  They warn you, but don't provide the necessary tools to make the experience comfortable.  I'm still torn on whether to devote the necessary time to rethinking the editing experience and trying to sell Haken Audio on the necessary collaboration.

[uhoh7]

1 hour ago, Lady Gaia said:

I've also started digging into the EaganMatrix editor and it's evident there's an enormous amount of potential behind the frustratingly obtuse design decisions.  I'm going to put a limiter on that channel because it's far too easy to get wildly unexpected results while exploring what's possible.  They warn you, but don't provide the necessary tools to make the experience comfortable.  I'm still torn on whether to devote the necessary time to rethinking the editing experience and trying to sell Haken Audio on the necessary collaboration.

 

Very smart. I need to ask on the facebook page if there some easy trick to prevent extreme loudness, within the editor. I have two mixers a Mackie ProFX8v2 and a newer Zoom R20 which feed to my main amp (I won't use headphones). Any suggestions on volume limiting appreciated.

 

My impression is we do have the potential for more sophisticated sound design than most digital synths, which are limited to interface choices, despite many options, like Waldorf, Virus, Hydrasynth, etc, and it would be very nice to create macros to our taste. The latest videos from Richard Kram are very much geared to helping Osmose users adapt. The editor has "presets" for complicated choices, and many patches apparent have accessible notes within the editor...we will see, hard to have any opinion now except.....what? I have to study?

[Phil Aiken]

6 hours ago, Lady Gaia said:

I'm not normally a fan of the "sprung" approach to simulating weighted keys but it works so very well with the EaganMatrix engine.  Without it you wouldn't be able to play swells or gently fade sounds the way you can on the Osmose.  It's a revelation in that regard, and it's clear they spent a lot of time trying to find the right amount of resistance so that it's not overly fatiguing.  I did finally spend some time playing a few software instruments as well using the poly aftertouch mode.  It didn't take long to get used to and it's quite capable in this regard – but I did immediately feel a little less connection due to the fact that notes trigger so much lower in their travel and you lose all the expressive potential of the initial pressure range.

If I am reading you correctly, and if I am not spacing out after having been away from it for over a week, the trigger point for external instruments is editable.

 

[Lady Gaia]

25 minutes ago, Phil Aiken said:

If I am reading you correctly, and if I am not spacing out after having been away from it for over a week, the trigger point for external instruments is editable.

You can indeed edit the trigger point at which velocity is determined and a note on is triggered, but I don't believe it sends anything at all for the "initial pressure" movement when in poly aftertouch mode.  So you do get to choose how sensitive the keybed is (and the same depth appears to serve for note off triggers as well), but the remainder of the sprung range above the aftertouch portion of their travel doesn't affect anything.  As a result the fatiguing feeling of the keys pressing back doesn't give the immediate sensation of having any value, quite unlike the experience of playing the native EaganMatrix patches.

 

Mind you, there have been other keybeds with a similar feel that I didn't like for the same reason, but which others seemed okay with.  The Fatar TP8/Piano action in the Prophet XL, for example, doesn't appeal to me at all.  YMMV.  So I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoy playing the Osmose natively.

[Nathanael_I]

8 hours ago, Lady Gaia said:

I've also started digging into the EaganMatrix editor and it's evident there's an enormous amount of potential behind the frustratingly obtuse design decisions.  I'm going to put a limiter on that channel because it's far too easy to get wildly unexpected results while exploring what's possible.  They warn you, but don't provide the necessary tools to make the experience comfortable.  I'm still torn on whether to devote the necessary time to rethinking the editing experience and trying to sell Haken Audio on the necessary collaboration.

It seems that it is made by PhD's for PhD's.  The power is unmistakable.  It's probably the most capable digital synth engine I own and more powerful than most softsynths too.  I also have not made a real exploration of it - certainly not from an "init" patch.  I did watch one of the tutorials, and it just can't be a priority right now to spend the time.  But It's clear that it is an exceptionally capable engine tied to an exceptionally rich data stream from the keyboard.   I also suspect that dumbing down the engine will seriously limit the expressive tweaking to get sounds to sit right on the keyboard. 

 

I suspect it is ideal if you have a Kyma system or program from scratch in MAX/MSP for sound design.  The way the functions work is a lot like how modular stuff works for multiplying and dividing CV data; it's just that it's not hidden behind simple knobs.  You actually have to put in the math and figure out what scaling works.

 

It's the opposite of a Dave Smith instrument where the control parameters are all optimized such that you almost can't make it sound bad, and "good to great" is almost everywhere.

 

But it may also be that 20-40 hours in, it just "snaps into focus".  I had that experience with the Schmidt 8 voice.  It's a very different beast, but keep at and then an incredibly rich and powerful experience unfolds, and dozens of new, excellent sounds come pouring out. 

[GovernorSilver]

Got the reminder from Expressive E to pay up or else.

 

Else meaning I don't get the Osmose 😅

 

As I was checking out the order, I got an upsell on the case.  40% off the case seemed like a good deal so I went for the case.

 

They also have some MPE-ready preset packs for UVI Workstation/Falcon on sale, listed in the Osmose category, but I don't own that software, so I passed on those.

[uhoh7]

19 hours ago, Nathanael_I said:

It seems that it is made by PhD's for PhD's.  The power is unmistakable.  It's probably the most capable digital synth engine I own and more powerful than most softsynths too.  I also have not made a real exploration of it - certainly not from an "init" patch.  I did watch one of the tutorials, and it just can't be a priority right now to spend the time.  But It's clear that it is an exceptionally capable engine tied to an exceptionally rich data stream from the keyboard.   I also suspect that dumbing down the engine will seriously limit the expressive tweaking to get sounds to sit right on the keyboard. 

 

I suspect it is ideal if you have a Kyma system or program from scratch in MAX/MSP for sound design.  The way the functions work is a lot like how modular stuff works for multiplying and dividing CV data; it's just that it's not hidden behind simple knobs.  You actually have to put in the math and figure out what scaling works.

 

It's the opposite of a Dave Smith instrument where the control parameters are all optimized such that you almost can't make it sound bad, and "good to great" is almost everywhere.

 

But it may also be that 20-40 hours in, it just "snaps into focus".  I had that experience with the Schmidt 8 voice.  It's a very different beast, but keep at and then an incredibly rich and powerful experience unfolds, and dozens of new, excellent sounds come pouring out. 

Howard Scarr, who did great tutorials for the Access Virus TI has an Osmose and is using the editor. He participates in the Facebook group. When I asked about a volume limiter, he chimed in to the effect he'd nearly taken out his speakers twice LOL. One person suggested an Alesis 3630 compressor/limiter would probably work, they run around $70 used.

 

PS I did the unthinkable and read the manual for the Zoom R20, which I have. It has a compressor/Limiter which cuts volume x20 past a given threshold. 

[uhoh7]

Just a reminder a very interesting event for anyone interested in Osmose or Haken audio is coming up shortly, and we should see some broadcasting:

 

One thing the Osmose has in common with all preset synths: it's very wet. I'll be driven into the editor sooner than later to tease out some nice tones with stable harmonics. There are some, of course, and many more can be quieted down with the macros. Movie score moods abound, but if you are trying to delineate dissonance and consonance, as a choir might, the pyrotechnical evolutions, echos etc....often create mud at the least chordal complexity. 

 

High on my Osmose "to-do": it looks like the aftertouch effect can be changed on the fly, if mapped to a  macro Mod, which can then be triggered with pedal or cc. The vibrato works great on AT, and is polyphonic, much easier to control than the sideways wiggle, but also filter, volume etc, are very nice there too. So for realtime playing being able to crossfade or switch AT functions would be pretty sweet. Richard Cram was very nice and created a Doc about this

https://patchstorage.com/aftertouch-effect-change-on-blend-osmose/?fbclid=IwAR05B14HypefOmwGQl-TCeAEebWSfErDPg-vEETRZr8E1oE8JugVfDKor4g

He also has his Osmose Cookbook v1 up and available for download:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pd4RDJKHtz_IBeD5MNH0UWoWpqn3xIS1/view?fbclid=IwAR3MLzapgrBHr1FZLbLn8CwA7xB0zZwRmQoUmUbCRU0whoWQT_Y4CwcoWoY

 

Richard is posting often on the Osmose Facebook, and is very responsive to questions. I love the Osmose, but my piano and organ still get plenty of attention

[Thethirdapple]

I soooo want to love the Osmose, but as some have pointed out in previous posts, the P.h.D. factor of the synth engine is going to limit the true use of this synth beyond its presets. The new paradigm which this and many other MPE / midi 2.0 controllers bring along is something I am a huge proponent of. As midi modulation slowly takes over my brain and creativity, this is a board I dream of.

 

I also love the KARMA engine, developed by Stephen Kay, and will want to combine the two for mad scientist level of musical expressions. But I fear the Osmose may suffer the similar fate of KARMA. Very cool but too complex for people to go beyond the presets and so it will experience a limited lifecycle of actual creativity in the larger ecosystem of making original music.

 

Obviously the market, us, have evolved in our sensibilities and especially  with the entire modular world really exploding, its clear that people are willing and ready to do some deep dives into sound synthesis. i have not yet had the opportunity to use one so I’m still in the window shopping crowd and watching as many videos as possible. Of which, highlights a perhaps “niche” affect of any MPE device, is that they are not conducive to playing in traditional styles nor standout for other than pads, string and atmospherics. I suppose this will take time to create new compositions and sound libraries to go with these new controllers.

 

All that said, I want one with a full midi out implementation so as to connect it with the KARMA engine and multiple synth’s!!!

 

PEACE

[Motif88]

FYI - Ordered from Sweetwater on 4/2/2023. Just received "READY TO SHIP" notification today, 5/9/2023

Slàinte Mhath

[uhoh7]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:46 PM, Thethirdapple said:

I soooo want to love the Osmose, but as some have pointed out in previous posts, the P.h.D. factor of the synth engine is going to limit the true use of this synth beyond its presets. The new paradigm which this and many other MPE / midi 2.0 controllers bring along is something I am a huge proponent of. As midi modulation slowly takes over my brain and creativity, this is a board I dream of.

 

It's not harder than Ableton, I'm pretty sure   But we only have so much time. I've come to the conclusion that our old romplers could have new lives if only they could be controlled in the mode of MPE as Osmose gives the first real taste. Do makers like Fatar realise that their hardware is probably 90% usable without retooling? The most valuable aspects of the "new mode" are simply graduated input in both directions on input and polyAT implementation. Even the latter does not have to be "total". A useful mode on the Osmose available in the sideways motion (which is not a fundamental requirement), is to limit the wiggle to "last note" "high note" or "most recent note". This could be applied to AT, possibly even conventional AT to a very useful mode of expression with existing voices. 

 

But in 2023 the "unknown unknowns" are growing. The keyboard is so dominant and marketing so promising, that a clamor to enhance the expression lost in electronics is fading. They might consider: nobody asked for an iphone either, LOL

 

The full advantage of acoustic instruments are not conveyed by speakers (resonance from wood sound boxes/boards, etc), and fewer people have any close experience with them. I'm going in the opposite direction: Just ordered my first Lute.  

 

For 400 years it was the most common instrument, and a huge repertoire, with performance details not included in early keyboard tablature, has survived, much of it supposedly, very "high quality". Ok, it's unlikely I will get good enough to tell, but I know can have fun and my ears will learn things.

[David Emm]

15 minutes ago, uhoh7 said:

 I've come to the conclusion that our old romplers could have new lives if only they could be controlled in the mode of MPE as Osmose gives the first real taste. Do makers like Fatar realise that their hardware is probably 90% usable without retooling? The most valuable aspects of the "new mode" are simply graduated input in both directions on input and polyAT implementation. Even the latter does not have to be "total". A useful mode on the Osmose available in the sideways motion (which is not a fundamental requirement), is to limit the wiggle to "last note" "high note" or "most recent note". This could be applied to AT, possibly even conventional AT to a very useful mode of expression with existing voices.

 

Ambitious idea! Of course, the form has to catch on a little better before many companies will devote programming resources to such an update. MPE is still such a modest slice of the MI market, its hard to predict this far out. I'm following it with interest, because my eyes bugged out the first time I experienced mere release velocity on a string pad. It'll be a funny day if we finally start getting better keybeds because they have to handle MPE as a given.  

[Thethirdapple]

Based on the videos I have watched of people playing the Osmose, I am surprised by the difficulty in “playing chords”, without over actioning the side to side motion. I understand that it can be modified or disabled if Im not mistaken…

 

Hopefully the dev of this product continues and many more expressive key beds is in our future. Would be interesting if an option such as a damper pedal could be implemented such that as the pedal is pressed the key bed “tightens” to limited the over action…

a girl can dream cant she?

 

And the advancement of MPE/midi 2 can only bring new goodness!

[GovernorSilver]

I can play chords on mine without side-side vibrato if I want.

 

Or am I misunderstanding the concern?

[Thethirdapple]

31 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

I can play chords on mine without side-side vibrato if I want.

 

Or am I misunderstanding the concern?

I haven't actually had a chance to play one yet so I am watching and reading as much as I can about it… I seem to remember a video from loopop mentioning that pitch bend can be inadvertently actioned with wide interval chords . But then again, Rudess, seems to have no such issues… 😶

 

Perhaps in a future update the pitch bend can be assigned to a CC so as to use a pedal to vary the modulation amount all the way to zero, similar to a velocity curve or like a sustain or damper pedal on a piano. Not simply the current on/off…

And do you find that the pitch bend, side to side motion, is good with less then 100% pressure?

 

[GovernorSilver]

1 hour ago, Thethirdapple said:

I haven't actually had a chance to play one yet so I am watching and reading as much as I can about it… I seem to remember a video from loopop mentioning that pitch bend can be inadvertently actioned with wide interval chords . But then again, Rudess, seems to have no such issues… 😶

 

Perhaps in a future update the pitch bend can be assigned to a CC so as to use a pedal to vary the modulation amount all the way to zero, similar to a velocity curve or like a sustain or damper pedal on a piano. Not simply the current on/off…

And do you find that the pitch bend, side to side motion, is good with less then 100% pressure?

 

 

100% effort pressure is not required for pitch bend with side to side key movement.  Light pressure is fine. Ohhh, you think that pressure is mapped to vibrato/modulation like most keyboards... this does not seem to be the case on most presets on the Osmose.  Pressure tends to be mapped to loudness (for volume swells), filter, or anything but LFO/modulation rate or amount.   For vibrato, just wiggle your finger side-side.

 

Most presets have the bend amount set to a very small interval - half tone or less - with side to side key movement.  I guess the assumption is most players just want to wiggle their fingers for vibrato, and at an interval that is not too wide.

 

Sweetwater's quick start guide shows some settings that may be accessed from the front panel, including pitch bend per key

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/expressive-e-osmose-quickstart-guide/

 

They also link the online manual:  https://expressivee.happyfox.com/kb/section/65/

 

This part of the manual covers pressure glide.   Presets that have this enabled will affect chordal playing, because notes within a certain distance of each other will be interpreted as a legato line.  I realized this when I played some minor 9th voicings and was confused by the gliding that was happening for some presets but not others.  Anyway, better to just point you to the link instead of type up an explanation that may be more confusing:

https://expressivee.happyfox.com/kb/article/251-playing-menu/

 

No comment on the MIDI CC stuff - haven't touched the MIDI stuff on this thing yet.  Maybe the manual has something on it.  I see an external MIDI chapter but that's the opposite of your questions - Osmose as MIDI controller, not MIDI receiver.

[GovernorSilver]

I agree with him - Bansuri is one of my early faves among the factory presets, and he shows and explains how pressure glide works in the preset.  Also some good coverage of the front panel controls.

 

 

[Motif88]

Received mine yesterday…I think I need at least a week or so to decide if I will keep it. I wanted to love it immediately but didn’t. As mentioned by others, the keyboard is unlike anything I’ve owned and I’ve had plenty of gear in 40+ years with the past 20 years or so focused on weighted action keyboard based synths/workstations.

 

Trying to determine if my Hydrasynth Deluxe is the one that provides the best intermediate means for me. I still want to get my hands on a Nord Stage 4 to bring me back to the immediacy of tweaking without menu diving. I guess those were my Oberheim years…

[nursers]

Still waiting for mine and the longer I wait, the less keen I am   Tempted to cancel my order as I think it will be wasted on me, but if I don't like it I shouldn't have any issues selling it.

[GovernorSilver]

I have to admit the lack of factory bread-and-butter presets like some kind of electric piano, organ, etc. will be an issue for some folks.  

[Motif88]

On 5/13/2023 at 8:50 PM, Motif88 said:

Received mine yesterday…I think I need at least a week or so to decide if I will keep it. I wanted to love it immediately but didn’t. As mentioned by others, the keyboard is unlike anything I’ve owned and I’ve had plenty of gear in 40+ years with the past 20 years or so focused on weighted action keyboard based synths/workstations.

 

Trying to determine if my Hydrasynth Deluxe is the one that provides the best intermediate means for me. I still want to get my hands on a Nord Stage 4 to bring me back to the immediacy of tweaking without menu diving. I guess those were my Oberheim years…

Well, I returned mine. Wanted to love it but it's not going to happen for me...makes me appreciate my Hydrasynth Deluxe even more. Still thinking about a Stage 4 for its immediacy.

[GovernorSilver]

For those of you who have not yet achieved Osmose/EaganMatrix Sound Designer God status, someone named R.Kram donated a generous amount of hours to create this free manual:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h6gR0KPOOOH_O_Q3az4uB8x4jZnLNC-V/view?fbclid=IwAR2nCiVrNOOmy4fc7Pr5T10y7cXu6RkkJZCZQwewwodbYgxZZqg18OEm-Uo

[uhoh7]

This might be worth a gander:

 

 

He actually took some time and is making presets   I'm still in study phase on that aspect, as several instruments are demanding my bandwidth. I'm learning why the Lute was the most popular chordophone for 300 years. The classical guitar is like an industrial machine gun in comparison. The lute is so much more fun...and has such rich tone....plenty loud in your living room, but not in a bar, I guess. Hence the guitar. Why is the Guitar skinny in the middle? It's supposed to have a bow. Took me 65 years to figure that out

 

Every time I play the Osmose I appreciate it more...the way it plays and the way it sounds, and the little secrets that make it easier.  

[uhoh7]

Osmose's two development leaders on the stage recently telling the story of development:

 

 

If the french accent is difficult, cc works well with it

 

PS My daughter comes home each summer from Brooklyn, and today I had her fiddling with the Osmose. She was having a grand time wiggling keys and comparing presets. After a few minutes I directed her attention to the variation of attack and the aftertouch. "Whoa!" She was also extremely impressed with my "new" 7 course lute...."Oh that is so fun to play...I want one". I've barely touched my guitars in two months (likely to their relief).