Cover band / upgrading / what should I buy?

[nursers]

4. I currently use MainStage to switch sounds on the onboard library plus the Nord via MIDI.

How are you using Mainstage to physically switch the sounds? i.e. are you selecting them from within Mainstage with the computer's keys/trackpad? Or triggering the Mainstage patch changes externally?

 

From my laptop

[gino]

Hi David,

At the time i was wanting a weighted 88 note workstation for gigging the FA08 came out. For me it was the right price, the right weight and the right feature set. It was everything i wanted and so i've been happily gigging with it in a covers band since 2014 as part of of 2 keyboard rig. It does a great job.

 

However any of the flagship workstations from Korg, Kurzweil & Yamaha all kick butt. If i had unlimited funds and was buying an 88 note for the studio i couldn't resist my lust for the Kronos. Same if i had a roadie carrying my gear to the gigs.

 

If i was currently in the market for an 88 weighted keyboard for coverband gigging and taking into account my finances and transportation i would purchase the FA08 again.

 

Once you prioritise on your combination of wants and needs, whatever you end up with you will enjoy as they are all great keyboards

 

Cheers,

[nursers]

Thanks Gino, very well put. The weight issue is the only thing still making me hesitate re: the Kronos - no roadies for me Glad the FA-08 is going well for you, I'm still very interested in it as well.

 

Hi David,

At the time i was wanting a weighted 88 note workstation for gigging the FA08 came out. For me it was the right price, the right weight and the right feature set. It was everything i wanted and so i've been happily gigging with it in a covers band since 2014 as part of of 2 keyboard rig. It does a great job.

 

However any of the flagship workstations from Korg, Kurzweil & Yamaha all kick butt. If i had unlimited funds and was buying an 88 note for the studio i couldn't resist my lust for the Kronos. Same if i had a roadie carrying my gear to the gigs.

 

If i was currently in the market for an 88 weighted keyboard for coverband gigging and taking into account my finances and transportation i would purchase the FA08 again.

 

Once you prioritise on your combination of wants and needs, whatever you end up with you will enjoy as they are all great keyboards

 

Cheers,

[J. Dan]

Let me just say this. I'm a Kronos fan and feel like it can handle anything thrown at it.

 

That said, it's not the greatest MIDI controller if you need it to handle everything internally - meaning what you play gets split into multiple MIDI channels and things you do get routed in different ways. It doesn't do that very well. If you're doing that on the mainstage side of things - meaning I'll send mainstage everything on MIDI channel 1 and it knows what to do from there, then you're fine.

 

The other comments I concede at least boil down to your preferred method of workflow. I have always liked setting everything up ahead of time per song and having it ready to go. The kronos is perfect in that scenario. If you're more the type who likes to on the fly be able to quickly create splits and layers and change patches for each part.....this is not the board for you. That is not how I work so it never bothered me. I've learned my way around enough that I can do it pretty quickly and HAVE done it on the fly with my original band, but it's a bit more cumbersome than some other architectures....trade-offs, plain and simple.

 

If you need a very powerful MIDI controller, my understanding is that the Kurz is the way to go, though I have no direct experience. Stand Alone, I would have to say that the Kronos for sure dominates in the area you've mentioned. Each of the others for sure have various strengths, mostly surrounding specific areas that may be of more significance to you, whether sampling, interface, certain sound sets, weight, and feel.

 

[nursers]

Thanks J.Dan - yes I'm similar to you, I really only need everything pre-set, hence the appeal of the Kronos.

 

Even now I just have a default song set up in Mainstage for Organ, Piano and Strings in case I need to do something on the fly, but it hasn't happened yet

[Iconoclast]

I can't imagine a board that wouldn't work with Mainstage better than the Forte, and still keep the redundancy to do everything all by itself. It's midi capabilities are pretty much as flexible as Mainstage itself. Basically, everything can do everything if you know how to assign it.

 

The other keyboard player in one of my groups has a Kronos that he really just uses as a Mainstage controller, if that tells you anything.

 

I haven't really played the Kronos but have plenty of time on the Forte and Nord Stage 3. They're both great boards but are very different animals.

 

Forte has pretty much everything. It's only weakness IMHO is KB3 mode isn't that amazing and you can only have one instance of KB3 in a multi. Everything else about it ultimately superior. However, it's not super user-friendly (a complaint that many Kronos users share).

 

The Nord IS super user friendly but is clearly the most limited option-wise of all the bigger boards. Also, it's midi implementation is cave-man compared to Forte (on the other hand...how many of us are midi cave men?)

 

Love both boards and not selling them. If I'm going to a jam, I'll take the Nord and tweak on the fly. If I'm building a show or a set, I use the Kurzweil. It sounds a bit better and integrates in a rig better.

[J. Dan]

Forte has pretty much everything. It's only weakness IMHO is KB3 mode isn't that amazing and you can only have one instance of KB3 in a multi. Everything else about it ultimately superior. However, it's not super user-friendly (a complaint that many Kronos users share).

 

That would be a huge deal breaker for me, I use my Kronos with a controller as my lower tier. It is not uncommon for me to set it up as dual manual organ, which requires dual instances of CX3. Not to mention my more complex combinations with CX3 recurring all over the place amongst both local and remote keyboards. One instance would seriously suck.

[AnotherScott]

Forte has pretty much everything. It's only weakness IMHO is KB3 mode isn't that amazing and you can only have one instance of KB3 in a multi. Everything else about it ultimately superior. However, it's not super user-friendly (a complaint that many Kronos users share).

That would be a huge deal breaker for me, I use my Kronos with a controller as my lower tier. It is not uncommon for me to set it up as dual manual organ, which requires dual instances of CX3. Not to mention my more complex combinations with CX3 recurring all over the place amongst both local and remote keyboards. One instance would seriously suck.

There is at least a partial way to address this on the Kurz. While there can only be one instance of KB3 invoked at a time, there are also non-KB3 organ patches, and those can be played simultaneously. Those don't give you all the individual drawbar controls, etc., but it does give you a way to use multiple organ sounds at once.

 

Iconoclast, when you say everything else about the Forte is superior (i.e. except organ), you mean compared to your Nord, right? Sonically, I see your point, but I think I'd also make exceptions for the Nord's wide range of acoustic grand and upright sounds of very different characters, and some of the more unusual vintage keys sounds available through their sample sound library. But yeah, I think a lot of the Nord advantages over Forte would be in areas other than the sounds. i.e. the real-time controls and lighter travel weight.

 

[MotiDave]

Im first t admit i dont get out much ... but ive never seen a Forte in real life. I have seen Kronos, FA-x, Yamaha, and those proud red boards. But never a Forte. I 100% believe those that say it exists.

 

I hate the evolution of the keyboard sales business, theres just no way for a normal human to go physically see all of the boards that are allegedly produced by manufacturers. Its not like i live in a cornfield 200 miles from the local hardware / feed store. I live in a metropolis of 3M people, which is separated by an invisible line from another metropolis of over 10M people. The largest seller of professional music equipment do not display any of these boards.

 

[AnotherScott]

4. I currently use MainStage to switch sounds on the onboard library plus the Nord via MIDI.

How are you using Mainstage to physically switch the sounds? i.e. are you selecting them from within Mainstage with the computer's keys/trackpad? Or triggering the Mainstage patch changes externally?

From my laptop

Okay, then for redundancy if you need to bypass Mainstage entirely, you may want to think about not just how you will get suitable substitute sounds, but also how you will manage patch changes, i.e. if you want your new board to not only provide the sounds, but also send patch changes to your Nord. Or you may find it fine to just call up the sounds you need on each board individually when playing this way.

 

Will the new board replace your P6 (as opposed to being a third board in the rig)? If that's the case, then you may need to think about not only its sounds and action (and maybe MIDI functionality), but also about replacing any other functions you may be using in the P6. i.e. do you need aftertouch? trigger pads (velocity sensitive or not)? But if you'll still have your P6 there, or don't use those functions anyway, then these wouldn't be other considerations.

 

The weight issue is the only thing still making me hesitate re: the Kronos - no roadies for me Glad the FA-08 is going well for you, I'm still very interested in it as well.

If weight is an issue, there are numerous lighter-than-FA hammer action boards, though they will generally lag behind the FA in VA synth functionality and/or the ability to easily create/modify the synth sounds from the front panel. But if they are good enough "synths" for you, you could look at lighter boards like Kurzweil SP6 or Yamaha MOXF. Kurz is lighter and has a real VA synth engine; MOXF has more on-board editing and (with optional flash card) the ability to use custom samples. I think the Yamaha has more MIDI functionality, but either probably has enough for your purposes. Yamaha also has better front panel patch recall, with its 8 bank plus 16 program select buttons.

 

I'd also look at the even lighter Casio PX5S, though it lags a bit as a MIDI controller by its lack of an expression pedal (easily addressable for Mainstage via a little accessory), and as a synth by lacking a monophonic synth mode. Most of its "rompler" sounds aren't as good as those from Kurz or Yamaha either. But as I said, it's lightest, and it also has the virtue of having what many probably consider the best feeling action of the bunch, important especially since your most over-riding need in this new board is to provide a good weighted action, that's the part you'll be using all the time. All the rest is redundancy, which it sounds like you will rarely if ever actually need. Unless, as I said, this board is also replacing the P6 and need aftertouch or whatever.

[nursers]

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman - thanks for all the great suggestions!

 

4. I currently use MainStage to switch sounds on the onboard library plus the Nord via MIDI.

How are you using Mainstage to physically switch the sounds? i.e. are you selecting them from within Mainstage with the computer's keys/trackpad? Or triggering the Mainstage patch changes externally?

From my laptop

Okay, then for redundancy if you need to bypass Mainstage entirely, you may want to think about not just how you will get suitable substitute sounds, but also how you will manage patch changes, i.e. if you want your new board to not only provide the sounds, but also send patch changes to your Nord. Or you may find it fine to just call up the sounds you need on each board individually when playing this way.

 

Will the new board replace your P6 (as opposed to being a third board in the rig)? If that's the case, then you may need to think about not only its sounds and action (and maybe MIDI functionality), but also about replacing any other functions you may be using in the P6. i.e. do you need aftertouch? trigger pads (velocity sensitive or not)? But if you'll still have your P6 there, or don't use those functions anyway, then these wouldn't be other considerations.

 

The weight issue is the only thing still making me hesitate re: the Kronos - no roadies for me Glad the FA-08 is going well for you, I'm still very interested in it as well.

If weight is an issue, there are numerous lighter-than-FA hammer action boards, though they will generally lag behind the FA in VA synth functionality and/or the ability to easily create/modify the synth sounds from the front panel. But if they are good enough "synths" for you, you could look at lighter boards like Kurzweil SP6 or Yamaha MOXF. Kurz is lighter and has a real VA synth engine; MOXF has more on-board editing and (with optional flash card) the ability to use custom samples. I think the Yamaha has more MIDI functionality, but either probably has enough for your purposes. Yamaha also has better front panel patch recall, with its 8 bank plus 16 program select buttons.

 

I'd also look at the even lighter Casio PX5S, though it lags a bit as a MIDI controller by its lack of an expression pedal (easily addressable for Mainstage via a little accessory), and as a synth by lacking a monophonic synth mode. Most of its "rompler" sounds aren't as good as those from Kurz or Yamaha either. But as I said, it's lightest, and it also has the virtue of having what many probably consider the best feeling action of the bunch, important especially since your most over-riding need in this new board is to provide a good weighted action, that's the part you'll be using all the time. All the rest is redundancy, which it sounds like you will rarely if ever actually need. Unless, as I said, this board is also replacing the P6 and need aftertouch or whatever.

[nursers]

Just an update - I think I'm going to go with the Kronos LS 88 - the lighter weight is the deal-clincher for me, and I definitely don't need piano weighted keys. Can't thank everyone enough for their great insights.

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast, when you say everything else about the Forte is superior (i.e. except organ), you mean compared to your Nord, right? Sonically, I see your point, but I think I'd also make exceptions for the Nord's wide range of acoustic grand and upright sounds of very different characters, and some of the more unusual vintage keys sounds available through their sample sound library. But yeah, I think a lot of the Nord advantages over Forte would be in areas other than the sounds. i.e. the real-time controls and lighter travel weight.

I think we're pretty much in agreement. After much playing I find the Forte's Piano's slightly superior to the Nord's, but I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk and some may find the Nord's keyboard better for the piano playing experience. The Nord's real advantages are that it's easier to get your head around and operate. They both sound great.

[CEB]

Just an update - I think I'm going to go with the Kronos LS 88 - the lighter weight is the deal-clincher for me, and I definitely don't need piano weighted keys. Can't thank everyone enough for their great insights.

 

Good luck. If it had been available I would have probably got the LS.

 

If you are going to do any sampling and you think you are losing your working or it isn't working let us know. It isn't as straight forward as it should be .... maybe because I was a Fantom guy.

 

You can sample and create your multi-sample sounds and have them working but if you lose them after shutting off the machine your sample are probably not being loaded during bootup. They are probably still on the disk ( if you were writing the sample to disk) We can help you fix that if it happens to you. The manual is not as user friendly as it could be.

[gino]

Awesome choice David, Congratulations. Enjoy the beast

[nursers]

Thanks CEB will definitely report back

 

Just an update - I think I'm going to go with the Kronos LS 88 - the lighter weight is the deal-clincher for me, and I definitely don't need piano weighted keys. Can't thank everyone enough for their great insights.

 

Good luck. If it had been available I would have probably got the LS.

 

If you are going to do any sampling and you think you are losing your working or it isn't working let us know. It isn't as straight forward as it should be .... maybe because I was a Fantom guy.

 

You can sample and create your multi-sample sounds and have them working but if you lose them after shutting off the machine your sample are probably not being loaded during bootup. They are probably still on the disk ( if you were writing the sample to disk) We can help you fix that if it happens to you. The manual is not as user friendly as it could be.

[nursers]

Will do, thanks Gino