new Vox Continental - Some thoughts

[jejefunkyman]

Cool, thanks for the video ð. Didn"t watch it completely but i"ll surely do. I enjoy very much my Vox Conti, especially at the price I paid it here in Europe, I think it"s a real bargain considering all you can do with this fancy board ð Of course, you don"t have full control over all the organ parameters, but it"s not my main use of the Vox as I also own a SK1. My favorite features are the valve and dynamic knobs which helps a lot to cut through a busy mix in a band context, the action and the sounds. Plus it"s pretty light, so easy to carry on. So overall a very good acquisition for me.

[AnotherScott]

One more advantage of Vox over Kronos... the Vox drawbars use standard MIDI CC, Kronos is sysex.

[Doerfler]

just watched. thanks for posting, Scott. Saw they never answered your question (pretty sure it was you) about contact info. Was a useful video for anyone looking to buy one. Any owners, like myself, should have known most, if not all, of what was covered.

As far as the livestream itself , much improvement needs to be made. The "plosives" were terrible. Dear Santa, please send Korg USA a pop filter. Also, the differences in volume between the host speaking and the keyboard making sounds were far too distant. I had to keep adjusting the volume.

Dear Santa, please send Korg USA a soundman.

Was certainly worth an hour of anyones time considering a purchase.

Loved the Vince Guaraldi sendoff.

[Fleer]

Cheers A/Scott. Vox time.

[jejefunkyman]

One of my favorite patch on the Vox is the "Bright Brass" patch (Patch number 1 in the Brass section). It has this little rising volume effect like a real horn section and a nice tone which makes it very fun to play. I use it a lot on a live context and also for recording. I was hoping they would include it in the SV2, but unfortunately they didn't :-(. Some Strings are also very nice, and in the Lead/Synth sections you can get some very nice tones which can be furthermore tweaked through the LED touchbar section, and also bended using the lever.

The XLR outputs are a nice addition, as well as the V861 which is supplied with the board.

One thing which annoys me though is that there's no button to tweak the reverb and delay timing: you can only do it by pressing on the Tap button. I'm having a hard time managing this properly. But this is just a minor annoyance in comparison with the boars offers.

[niacin]

One of my favorite patch on the Vox is the "Bright Brass" patch (Patch number 1 in the Brass section). It has this little rising volume effect like a real horn section and a nice tone which makes it very fun to play. I use it a lot on a live context and also for recording

 

Brass #3 is a proper sforzando and you can adjust the crescendo time with the second LED strip. I use #1 or #3 when I need brass, they both play as well as any rompler brass section I've heard.

 

One thing which annoys me though is that there's no button to tweak the reverb ... timing

 

You can adjust the reverb time by turning the REVERB knob while holding the REVERB button.

[jejefunkyman]

Yes you're right for the reverb time adjustment ;-)

 

On the Brass #1, actually it is not really a volume crescendo effect, but a subtle change of tone from low to high range, which feels a bit like a crescendo effect. And I prefer the tone of Brass #1 so this is why I mostly use it.

[AnotherScott]

Cheers A/Scott. Vox time.

It does tempt me. I really enjoyed playing it. I just don't know if it does enough of what I need to serve an actual purpose for me, e.g. to ever be one of the (typically) two boards I choose to take to a particular gig, or the one board I take to a casual get-together.

 

I just got to spend some time on a YC61, I wrote up my impressions in the YC61 thread, including comparisons to the Vox. I'll copy that relevant part here:

 

On paper, this is a much stronger board than the Vox, especially with its multi-zone MIDI control, its 8 patch select buttons (vs. 4), it's FAR superior split/layer capabilities, the display that gives you the names of all your patches, effects, etc. so you're not "flying blind" or working from memorization/cheat sheets, far more extensive effects, and a full set of organ controls (e.g. percussion and CV). But I have to admit that, in the playing, the Vox did a better job at putting a smile on my face. So if my needs were sufficiently minimal--i.e. if I were going to be playing just one sound at a time (negating the split/layer differences), and didn't intend to use very many sounds (mitigating the lack of display that lets you know where you are), and didn't care about MIDI zoning for integrating external sounds--I think I'd choose the Vox. But if you need those other things, the Vox simply doesn't give them to you, and the YC61 is still a really nice board. If you're VERY organ-centric, neither will completely satisfy. Yamaha has better sound but worse Leslie effect. Yamaha gives you all the organ controls you want that are missing from the Vox, but you lose the high trigger. So each is compromised as an organ, just in different ways.

 

I also included this, maybe you can help here...

 

Some approximate measurements, from stacking nickels (5 grams each) on the fronts of the keys... maybe not precise, but at least in the ballpark:

 

Nord Stage 3 = 14 nickels to initiate key movement, 23 nickels to hold the key fully down

YC61 = 8 nickels to initiate key movement, 15 nickels to hold the key fully down

 

any volunteers to provide comparable figures for Vox Continental?

[Fleer]

I"m not with my keys at the moment but will check once I am.

[AnotherScott]

I"m not with my keys at the moment but will check once I am.

if you don't have one on hand at any moment, then perhaps three is not enough!

 

One thing I realized after watching the livestream is that, while the 2.0 expansion from 16 to 64 scenes is very worthwhile, you still need to maintain some awareness of your groups of 16, because the only sounds you can get to at a moment's notice (i.e. mid-song, or in a quick segue from one song to the next) are ones in the same bank of 16. The "press and hold" to switch to another bank of 16 takes a few seconds, so those sounds aren't available for super fast switches. Luckily this is ameliorated by the feature we discussed earlier, that a single scene can contain multiple saved sounds you can switch among.

 

I was thinking about what super-light pairings one could create with a Vox, i.e. pairing it with a complementary board that weighs even less than the Vox does. I think the Ax-Edge would be nice here, at only 9.3 lbs, giving you aftertouch, good patch selection facilities (10 banks of 10 Favorites, which can include external MIDI zoning), and a nice sound set with Zen-Core expansion compatibility. Plus you can even use it as a keytar...

 

So, Vox enthusiasts, I'm wondering, is it typically your only board? If not, what do you combine it with? (Not that there's much gigging at the moment...)

[niacin]

AU$2 coins:

 

YC61 - 7 coins to get the key moving, 13 to hit bottom (compared to 8/15 nickels).

Vox - 8 coins to get the key moving, 10 to hit bottom.

 

They're very different actions but both give you a good amount of dynamic control. I find the Vox feels more piano-like. It feels far less like you're pushing a spring. I get the sense of weights if not hammers. I suspect it's light springs and small weights under the key. The Yamaha feels quite tightly sprung but then there's a point where some sort of escapement kicks in and the tension disappears altogether.

[niacin]

So, Vox enthusiasts, I'm wondering, is it typically your only board? If not, what do you combine it with? (Not that there's much gigging at the moment...)

 

Hammond SK1. There are a few of us here doing that. The Vox organ is imo it's weakest suit thus the Hammond pairing. But I bought a second Vox and for some gigs where my Hammond needs are limited will use two Voxs. I tried it with a YC61 on top but, as many have noted, the YC Leslie just doesn't cut the mustard. I've paired up the YC with my HX3 and it's f#^king great, but if I'm carrying 2 boards as well then it's just getting too much to be adding a module. So my options are:

 

Hammond SK1 / Vox - covers gigs

Vox / Vox - R&B trio where I want a bass / EP split on the bottom, synths with fx including tap tempo delay, strings or occasional Hammond on top

Yamaha YC61 + HX3 - blues gigs, one board, easy lug for festival gigs, easy set up as the HX3 audio runs back into the YC61, killer Hammond sound

SK2 - jazz & funk gigs

 

It is nice to have reached a point in my life when I can afford to have options.

[jejefunkyman]

So, Vox enthusiasts, I'm wondering, is it typically your only board? If not, what do you combine it with? (Not that there's much gigging at the moment...)

 

In general, I'm not using the Vox alone. I have several configurations depending on the band I'm playing with, and also different ones between rehearsals and gigs.

 

So my typical rigs would be:

- Vox as a bottom board with Hammond SK1 on top for organ oriented gigs. The Vox would be used then for AP, EP, Clav, strings, brass and synths.

- Vox as a bottom board with a MIDI keyboard (Alesis Q61 in my case) + iPad with Korg Module on top for Soul, Funk, Blues, Hip-hop and Rock styles, for rehearsals. Mostly AP, EP, Clav and organ from the Vox, additional other sounds like strings, brass, synths and top organ when needed from Module. This combination is really super light so very practical for weekly practicing, and the ipad fits very well on the Vox, and is very stable as my iPad case has a magnet included. Works even with the iPhone as Module is a universal app. Makes the setup even lighter ;-)

- Vox as a top board with the SV2 on the bottom for non organ oriented gigs. Vox to play all the extra sounds beyond AP, EP and Clavs.

 

So far, I'm not really a big fan of using one single board with splits but this may change in the future, if I get fed up of carrying boards all around ;-) Also I'm not playing hundreds of gigs a year ;-) And I'm not using a wide combination of sounds, and I'm more a "preset" type player (don't really have time to spend for sound design), so my requirements for a board are pretty simple.

 

I've used sometimes the Vox alone during private partys, when I couldn't bring two boards, and it did a great job there. So it could also work as a single unit on some occasion. And people are always amazed by it's look, so it helps creating a good mood in the audience ;-)

[To B3]

Nice video! What's the real difference on the internal CX3 of the Continental and the Kronos to the "real" CX3 in terms of sound? Never found an explanation or a side by side comparison. Is it really the same sound and leslie simulation?

 

Also, I got the impression that the tube distortion, when applied to the organ sound, it goes after the leslie simulation, to my ears. Is that what happens? You can see at about 9 minutes in.

[AnotherScott]

AU$2 coins:

 

YC61 - 7 coins to get the key moving, 13 to hit bottom (compared to 8/15 nickels).

Vox - 8 coins to get the key moving, 10 to hit bottom.

Thanks, Niacin. For anyone who cares to work out the math, a nickel is 5 grams, and google tells me that AU$2 coins are 6.5 grams.

 

The Yamaha feels quite tightly sprung but then there's a point where some sort of escapement kicks in and the tension disappears altogether.

Yes, I noticed that too, and talked about it in the "Yamaha YC61 Announced" thread, post 3074657 at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3074657/re-yamaha-yc61-announced#Post3074657

 

Hammond SK1. There are a few of us here doing that. The Vox organ is imo it's weakest suit thus the Hammond pairing. But I bought a second Vox and for some gigs where my Hammond needs are limited will use two Voxs.

Two Voxen certianly addresses the board's limited split functionality! If I'm bringing a second board, my inclination is to look for something that will bring different sounds/functions to the rig, but I do see advantages to the second Vox approach. Nothing lighter has as nice of an action; you don't have to worry about whether the sound you're looking for is on the board you want it to be on; and if you intend to have two of them anyway (as some people like to keep an identical "backup" of their main board), it's cost-effective, too. Related, if one board fails, the board you're left with still has all your sounds as you like them and where you expect them. But me, I'd go with a different second board. Because I'm a keyboard junkie.

 

tried it with a YC61 on top but, as many have noted, the YC Leslie just doesn't cut the mustard. I've paired up the YC with my HX3 and it's f#^king great, but if I'm carrying 2 boards as well then it's just getting too much to be adding a module.

Have you tried the HX3 on the Vox? I'm curious especially in context of what you said in the YC61 thread: "The HX3 drawbar settings are reflected by the LEDs: set up a preset on the YC61 with the organ section turned on and the organ section volume set to zero so the internal organ sounds aren't heard. When you switch to that preset the YC61 sends the saved drawbar setting over MIDI, indicated by the LEDs, to the HX3. Voila." I wonder if it would work that way on the Vox as well. Obviously, you lose the convenience of the YC61's audio in.

 

the ipad fits very well on the Vox, and is very stable as my iPad case has a magnet included. Works even with the iPhone as Module is a universal app. Makes the setup even lighter ;-)

Yes, I like that the Vox has free panel space for something like that, too. A logistical issue if you want to expand the YC61 with an iPad/B-3X or whatever is that there's no convenient place to put the iPad. Same issue with the Nord Stage 3. The double edged sowrd of provding all those wonderful front panel controls!

 

I mentioned the AX-Edge has a potential nice super-light complement to the Vox... but if I wanted more than 49 keys in a lightweight complement, I'd probably go for Roland Juno DS or Yamaha MODX. Most of my gigs are not sufficiently organ-centric for the SK1 you and niacin like to make the most sense, I'd go for the added functionality and sonic range of one of those others... and if I really wanted better organ, I'd look into adding HX3 or BX3 to the Vox. Though that brings me back to my question to Niacin about how well they can integrate.

 

What's the real difference on the internal CX3 of the Continental and the Kronos to the "real" CX3 in terms of sound? Never found an explanation or a side by side comparison. Is it really the same sound and leslie simulation?

I addressed that a bit in an earlier post... AFAIK the engine is identical, and that seemed to be confirmed by comments in the Bill Barton video (post #3046692 in this thread)... but identical engine doesn't mean same sound because it depends which sound you are after. The CX3 engine in the Kronos is tremendously tweakable in its organ sound and its Leslie sim. So while I'm pretty confident that every CX3 sound in the Vox could be acheived in the Kronos, the Kronos has a ton of other variations--both in its presets and in how you can alter them--that you would not be able to duplicate in the Vox.

 

Also, I got the impression that the tube distortion, when applied to the organ sound, it goes after the leslie simulation, to my ears. Is that what happens?

Good catch. The tube does appear to be the very last thing in the signal chain. There are two other sources of distortion which are earlier in the chain... the one you can enable in the effects section, and also one that is built into some of the presets (for its own sound and leaving the effects panel free for another purpose, or I suppose, to combine both distortions). Related, the tube is implemented completely manually, by which I mean its setting is completely determined from the front panel and is not stored with a scene. Not only is the amount not storable with a scene--which I understand because I think it is a direct analog control over the tube's input level--but what surprised me is that even the status of tube being switched in or out is not storable either.

[jejefunkyman]

Because I'm a keyboard junkie.

 

This I fully understand lol ;-) I would also not use 2 Vox together, in order to have more sonic diversity. But I understand those who do.

 

I have to highlight again the price topic, which was a big decision making factor for me. I'm not sure that for a higher price than the one I paid, I would have bought the Vox, as I don't really need all the things he offers. But I'm now happy to have them under my hands now ;-)

 

I know the price positioning in the US is different, though I can't explain why. Also in Europe, it has a bit increase since I bought it February 2019.

[Fleer]

Putting that iPad with a magnetic case on the Vox is a strike of genius.

 

As for my personal Vox story, well, I wasn"t even going to try one when they came out, what with those strange looking touch strips. Then, when prices got lowered, I came to love it threefold. Two 73s on top of each other in that weird looking but great turning stand (like a spit roast). The third one (61) and its dedicated Vox case are going places with a Roland RD-88 and a Fantom.

 

IMO, this Vox is the closest any digital keyboard has ever come to being an actual instrument in its own right.

[niacin]

Some approximate measurements, from stacking nickels (5 grams each) on the fronts of the keys... maybe not precise, but at least in the ballpark:

 

Nord Stage 3 = 14 nickels to initiate key movement, 23 nickels to hold the key fully down

YC61 = 8 nickels to initiate key movement, 15 nickels to hold the key fully down

 

any volunteers to provide comparable figures for Vox Continental?

 

Added the SK1 -

 

AU$2 coins:

 

Yamaha YC61 - 7 coins to get the key moving, 13 to hit bottom (compared to 8/15 nickels).

Korg Vox Continental - 8 coins to get the key moving, 10 to hit bottom.

Hammond SK1 - 9 coins to get the key moving, more than 15 to hit bottom (I ran out of coins), presumably something approaching the Nord Stage Compact

 

I should note that the SK1 and the Vox have seen more than a few gigs and rehearsals while the Yamaha is quite new.

 

I'd be curious to know how the Numa Stage Compact 2/2X compares.

[uhoh7]

 

I'd be curious to know how the Numa Stage Compact 2/2X compares.

 

I'm in US, so aussie coinage is scarce....but I have a 2X, what coins should I use?

 

I have a 1960 RT3 also (B3 keyboard).

 

Nickels.....sounds dangerous

[jejefunkyman]

Putting that iPad with a magnetic case on the Vox is a strike of genius.

No genius here, just a pure coincidence, as I didn"t think about this when buying a case for my new iPad But a nice one indeed

 

So you have 3 Vox(es) ð± That"s pretty amazing!! You must be the number one Vox fan in the world ðð

 

I have a question about the stand: so you mean you could stack 2 73 Vox on top of each other, with the included stand?? What did u use for the top tier? The Vox stand is for sale here in Europe for 99 EUR which is pretty attractive. But the product description on the Thomann website says that you can only mount a 61 keyboard on top. When I ask them if it would it be possible to mount a 73 keyboard on the top, they even replied that it is not recommended at all to use the stand for a 2 keyboard set, and that I should instead buy the other Sequenz stands, which are much more expensive ð So did they play a commercial trick on me??? Thanks for your hints ð

[niacin]

 

I'd be curious to know how the Numa Stage Compact 2/2X compares.

 

I'm in US, so aussie coinage is scarce....but I have a 2X, what coins should I use?

 

I have a 1960 RT3 also (B3 keyboard).

 

Nickels.....sounds dangerous

 

Nickels, thx

[Fleer]

Putting that iPad with a magnetic case on the Vox is a strike of genius.

No genius here, just a pure coincidence, as I didn"t think about this when buying a case for my new iPad But a nice one indeed

 

So you have 3 Vox(es) ð± That"s pretty amazing!! You must be the number one Vox fan in the world ðð

 

I have a question about the stand: so you mean you could stack 2 73 Vox on top of each other, with the included stand?? What did u use for the top tier? The Vox stand is for sale here in Europe for 99 EUR which is pretty attractive. But the product description on the Thomann website says that you can only mount a 61 keyboard on top. When I ask them if it would it be possible to mount a 73 keyboard on the top, they even replied that it is not recommended at all to use the stand for a 2 keyboard set, and that I should instead buy the other Sequenz stands, which are much more expensive ð So did they play a commercial trick on me??? Thanks for your hints ð

It works absolutely fine. I used the regular Vox stand that came with my 73 and added the (identical) second rackmount to put both on top of each other. Perfect solid stand with the additional perk of being able to turn them your way (or away from you, like some bands did). I"m pretty sure there"s only one so-called Vox stand by Sequenz, so it shouldn"t matter which one you buy. The rackmount stays the same. But you will have to get an additional rackmount if you didn"t get a Vox stand with each Vox you bought. Again, let me be clear, I"m talking about the stand that comes with the Vox. If you get two, you only need to use the rackmount of the second one and add it to the first.

[uhoh7]

OK I do notice quite a bit of variation on both the Numa C2x and the B3 and my AP. That said:

 

Numa C2x 12/26

B3 (RT3) 12/28 (this surprised me, I thought it would take less than numa to hold down)

Fatar TP8s 9/19

AP 10/19 (It's a 1986 Young Chang clone of U1 upright)

Fatar TP10 (SL880) 10/19 (feels heavier than the AP?)

 

Nickels. My method is to hold key up with coins and then release to see first number. Second number I raise the key, with coins, slightly off the bottom and release. Then press to see if anything left. If not I get second number

[niacin]

Thx, though I'm not sure I understand your method, I just piled coin after another on the front end of a key until the key moved (first number) and then until the key reached the bottom (2nd number).

[uhoh7]

Thx, though I'm not sure I understand your method, I just piled coin after another on the front end of a key until the key moved (first number) and then until the key reached the bottom (2nd number).

 

Gravity adds weight. I noticed when I added enough to drop the key, sometimes I could lift it and it would stay above the bottom. And I noticed that when I added to start movement, I could raise the key up and it would stay un-depressed sometimes. So I tried to be sure I really had the amount of weight required without "piling".

 

I was surprised also that the amount really did vary between some keys. I'd guess two coins at times, but often 1 coin.

 

It would be very nice to get a spread sheet going with all the boards, adding travel from top to bottom, and another coin measurement at the top of the key. Then we would really start to see some variations. By these numbers the B3 looks identical to C2x, but the pivot is way longer on the B3, so you know the top of the key (closest to sheet music) will be softer than the C2x. I'll try that. The B3 keys are pretty short too. So maybe that kind of comparison should be EG 5" in from outside, regardless of total length.

[niacin]

Thx, though I'm not sure I understand your method, I just piled coin after another on the front end of a key until the key moved (first number) and then until the key reached the bottom (2nd number).

 

Gravity adds weight. I noticed when I added enough to drop the key, sometimes I could lift it and it would stay above the bottom. And I noticed that when I added to start movement, I could raise the key up and it would stay un-depressed sometimes. So I tried to be sure I really had the amount of weight required without "piling".

 

I was surprised also that the amount really did vary between some keys. I'd guess two coins at times, but often 1 coin.

 

It would be very nice to get a spread sheet going with all the boards, adding travel from top to bottom, and another coin measurement at the top of the key. Then we would really start to see some variations. By these numbers the B3 looks identical to C2x, but the pivot is way longer on the B3, so you know the top of the key (closest to sheet music) will be softer than the C2x. I'll try that. The B3 keys are pretty short too. So maybe that kind of comparison should be EG 5" in from outside, regardless of total length.

 

Thx, I understand now what you did. And yeh the YC61 especially was hard to pin down, could have been 6 to get it moving, could have been 8. The Vox was very consistent.

 

Given your acoustic piano came up way under your Hammond I'm now not sure how useful these figures are. But thanks for adding them, I am considering picking up a Numa Compact 2X so I have an 88 when I need one, and I'll have to order it in without trying it so any information is most welcome.

[AnotherScott]

Given your acoustic piano came up way under your Hammond I'm now not sure how useful these figures are.

I think they're useful but don't tell the whole story.

 

At middle C, my acoustic takes 10 nickels to initiate any movement, and 13 to keep a key down at the bottom. But it would still be a horrible action for organ. There is a noticable escapement point that must be surpassed with inertia. By weight alone, it's a lot (more nickels than the 29 I had at hand). And you must actually hit that low post-escapement point to trigger the note, unlike an organ, especially with high trigger, which creates sound higher in its travel. (The sharp edges of the piano keys are another issue making them unsuitable for organ, but we'll just stick with weight for now.)

 

I mentioned that the YC61 is unusual in actually having something that feels a bit like escapement, a point at which the key passes a point of maximum resistance and then offers less (unlike, for example, a TP8O whose resistance continues to increase as you push the key down further). As I said, YC61 = 8 nickels to initiate key movement, 15 nickels to hold the key fully down... but it takes 21 nickels to get it to move past its point of greatest resistance.

 

p.s. nicain, did you see my post # #3074806 above? I'm curious about any experience you might have putting the HX3 on the Vox.

[niacin]

p.s. nicain, did you see my post # #3074806 above? I'm curious about any experience you might have putting the HX3 on the Vox.

 

Hey, I did see it, I haven't tried it as the Vox touch strips just don't make great drawbars (they're way too innacurate), but when I have time I'll reprogramme the drawbar CC#s on the HX3 to match the Vox strips and see what happens when I change presets, probably get to it next weekend.

[uhoh7]

 

Given your acoustic piano came up way under your Hammond I'm now not sure how useful these figures are. But thanks for adding them, I am considering picking up a Numa Compact 2X so I have an 88 when I need one, and I'll have to order it in without trying it so any information is most welcome.

 

Yes, It's interesting: the AP is softer to push and softer to hold than the Hammond, but the action feels heavier and slower, WTF?

 

I would not have predicted this, but another missing measurement, in combination with these numbers might explain it.

 

Key weight. I would bet my least favorite child the Hammond has far lighter keys than the Young Chang. Add that to stronger "spring" in the Hammond and you get what we all feel. An incredibly fast action.

 

And perhaps this is the TP8s formula as "best of all worlds", which even piano players love. Note it is the softest all around. But the keys are not heavy. Did somebody measure the TP8O?

[niacin]

And perhaps this is the TP8s formula as "best of all worlds", which even piano players love. Note it is the softest all around. But the keys are not heavy. Did somebody measure the TP8O?

 

The TP8 Organ is in the SK1 and the Nord Stage Compact for which there are coin measurements above.. I know I'm not the only one around here who finds it too tightly sprung to make playing electric piano let alone piano a great experience. When it's well worn in it's better, but the actions in the Vox and the YC61 are far superior imo for playing piano sounds.