Billy Joel recent interview excerpt / songwriting

[d halfnote]

I didn't know this cat hadn't put out a new record since 1993.

 

Here's an excerpt from a recent interview [R Stone mag] wherein he explains why.

 

Do you consider yourself a great songwriter?

I think I'm OK. Some of my songs are pretty damn good. Some stink out loud.

I once tried to write a song in French, and I don't even speak French. So that was a disaster. I played it in France and asked a promoter why they didn't like it. He said they thought I was singing in Polish.

If I had to dilute it, I'd say about half of my songs are passable, but there's a bunch I would throw away.

 

Those songs are the soundtracks to people's lives!

I like the obscure stuff more than the hits. I never thought "Piano Man" would be a hit. "We Didn't Start the Fire" is essentially a novelty song.

 

What are you thinking as you're singing "Piano Man" onstage?

"Oh, good, it's almost over!" I'm kidding. It's gratifying to hear an audience sing your words. But it's more about feeling than thinking onstage. I like communicating with the musicians.

 

What's your favorite Billy Joel song?

"New York State of Mind," because, I guess, it became a standard. Sort of like Hoagy Carmichael's "Stardust," or "Georgia on My Mind." It became one of those songs.

"And So It Goes" has a lot of resonance for me. I was very proud of that one, and a lot of obscure songs that people don't even know. There's a song called "She's Right on Time" from The Nylon Curtain. "The Great Wall of China" from River of Dreams. "Summer, Highland Falls" from Turnstiles. I think on every album there's one song I'm particularly fond of.

 

I can't believe how hard I worked when I was younger. Sometimes it affected me as a human being. I set a high bar for myself, and if I didn't reach it, I would beat myself up, which probably is the reason I stopped writing songs. If I don't write something as good as I want it to be, I really whomp on myself. I really beat myself up. I just don't need to do that so much.

 

Do songs still come to you when you're sitting at the piano at home?

Every morning. I wake up every morning, I get out of bed and I've got a song idea in my head. Not necessarily a song idea, but either a melodic idea or a symphonic idea. I dream symphonies sometimes. So I'm still writing music. I never stopped writing music. I just stopped writing songs.

 

Could you ever put out an album of fragments string them together in an interesting way?

I suppose I could if I wanted to record again. I'm just not compelled to. The main thing is I'm still continuing to compose music, which is my first love anyway. I hear a melody and a rhythm first. One of the last things that I actually get are the words. I remember being in a band trying to learn songs to play, and you had to keep lifting the needle off the record, thinking, "What did he say?" And most of the time you make up your own dirty lyrics.

 

I read that you make up dirty lyrics to your own songs at sound checks.

Yeah. The greatest one I heard was someone was about "She's Got a Way About Her." Someone thought it was "She's Got a Gay Chihuahua." I really like that one. Or "You May Be Right": "You make the rice/I'll make the gravy."

 

[bill5]

Big thanks for this. He's one of the all-timers. (Such a character too - I saw him on some talk show talking about his music and music in general, it was both funny and informative)

 

I'm painfully aware that he hasn't put out an album (discounting that classical stuff or whatever he put out back when) in so long. It always baffled me that he just up and quit putting out albums/songs, so was interesting to hear some insight into that. It's like Bill Watterson who wrote the Calvin & Hobbes comic strip. How can you be so prolific, so damn good at what you do, so successful (not just popular but critically)...and presumably love it to boot...and suddenly just quit? I get tapering off or taking a break, even a long one, but quit? That's it? But the stress/hassle of recording and beating one's self up due to being so demanding and critical of your stuff...I guess any of us who have composed can appreciate that. I just don't get that absolute stop. Surely in all those years he has a least a few good "songs" (by which I assume he means with lyrics vs instrumentals) that are worthy of recording. And if he's still writing all the time and they're "only" instrumentals, dammit, give us those at least!

 

Many of my favs of his also weren't hits, like "Zanzibar" etc. Course that's true of most if not all artists I've been into.

 

[HammondDave]

I have always thought that BJ was one of the great contemporary song writers, up there with Burt Bacharach, McCartney, Lennon, and Elton John. So many great, DISTINCTIVE songs. Think about it... Allentown, Scenes From an Italian Restaurant, Movin Out, Roberta, Downeaster Alexa, and on and on. Very few songs sound the same. Plus he can tune his voice to fit the song,

 

So happy to read that She's Right on Time is one of his favorites. I have always loved that song. So much emotion, and a great musical arrangement with a wonderful bridge. The Hammond work in that song is sublime. And Liberty DeVito's drums adds so much power to the transitions and fills... especially after the harpsichord break. So simple, but so powerful!

 

[video:youtube]

[Mills Dude]

BJ and Chopin were the inspiration to start piano lessons at 14 years of age. The sweet spot for me was the late '70s - early 80's --- Turnstiles through Nylon Curtain.

 

I think an 'oft overlooked aspect to those recordings is the contribution of the band, the Lords of 57th street. Sure it's BJ's name on the marquis, but those records seem like more of a complete band project. BJ really crystallized that that piano driven rhythm section, as opposed to a guitar driven one. I can still enjoy listening to some of the "throw away" songs. "Get it right the first time" has great contributions from DeVitto and Stegmeyer. A song that's not quite the greatest composition but it's a great listen to hear that tightness in the band. "Sleeping with the television on" , although maybe a bit too Elvis Costello derivative, is a great little keyboard rock song, executed very well. One of my favorite records is "Songs in the Attic", hearing that great band live, making those songs come alive. While I'm not a big fan of Innocent Man, the record and song writing are executed so well.

 

Who knows why he hung it up in the 90s. Perhaps he felt he achieved everything he set out to do in pop music. At that point he was already one of the biggest selling recording artists in history. He seemed to recover after the accounting scandals in the late '80s and had secured financial freedom. Maybe the drive and inspiration just wasn't there anymore.

 

His style really spoke to me as a young piano player and gave me something to strive for. He had the rock/pop star swagger and some chops to back it up.

 

But then, someone played me ELP and well ...

[MathOfInsects]

"Sleeping with the television on" , although maybe a bit too Elvis Costello derivative

 

...and herein lies my issue with (the insanely talented and successful) Billy Joel: I don't really know what a Billy Joel song sounds like. Piano Man is Dylan, She's Right on Time is Kansas, New York State of Mind is Ray Charles, Scenes from an Italian Restaurant is Springsteen, Nylon Curtain (album) is the Beatles, Cold Spring Harbor (album) is Carole King etc etc. I suspect/fear that "We Didn't Start the Fire" is one of his few "Billy-as-Billy" songs, which is not, unfortunately, a compliment.

 

Don't get me wrong, I had a couple years in college where I listened to his catalog (up until then) pretty consistently. But he fell out of rotation hard when the live album came out (can't remember the name of it); I found it shrill and unsoulful, and from then on, I couldn't hear his stuff the same way.

 

And then that godawful 50's-revival album came out, the one with Uptown Girl, and that was the final nail.

 

Though I do think "And So It Goes" is a beautiful song.

 

 

[richforman]

Especially playing second keys in a Billy Joel tribute band for five years (up until last year, lost the gig to another dude!..that's the way it goes sometimes, I've still been used as a sub since then), I have nothing but enormous admiration for Billy's craft and skill in composing, arranging, and of course tremendous admiration, respect and jealousy for his piano playing. Many wonderful chord progressions and melodies. That said, his music and persona have never spoken to me strongly on a personal/emotional level, and I have always heard him as more of a kinda bland MOR/mainstream/A.C. (adult contemporary, not Atlantic City!) artist than a real rock'n'roller (and he's at his worst I'd say when he tries to convince us otherwise!), and I've especially often thought he has real persistent weaknesses in the lyrics department, many spots that have always just been a little nails-on-a-blackboard to me, words-wise. Of course I do have some favorite tracks of his that I dig without reservation, I'd count You're My Home, Get it Right the First Time, All About Soul, Stilletto, Zanzibar, I Go To Extremes, among them. Then there are some I could very happily go without ever hearing again, including Piano Man and Italian Restaurant!

[MathOfInsects]

I have always heard him as more of a kinda bland MOR/mainstream/A.C. (adult contemporary, not Atlantic City!) artist than a real rock'n'roller (and he's at his worst I'd say when he tries to convince us otherwise!)

 

This, completely.

[timwat]

Well, that's one perspective, perfectly fair.

 

Yep his work's a little uneven. His best songs aren't as popular as his biggest hits. He has some real clinkers. And it's impossible for me to see his body of work as a rock 'n roll catalog.

 

At the same time, more than one of his songs has become a staple of our popular music...within his own lifetime. He's influenced countless young piano players to consider music as a passion and career. And in his big catalog of work, there are some really wonderful songs. Bonus points, he never claimed he'd take down the Beatles in a game of 1-on-1 (LaVar Ball reference), if you know what I mean.

 

So for me I don't think I'll ever be really hard on him. If I were him, I think I'd look back on the work with real pride, satisfaction and comfort. My 0.02.

[Outkaster]

Interestingly as a piano player I never got into him or Elton John, they just didn't speak to me but I admire Billy as a fellow New Yorker and as a player. The NJ sound was better and spoke to me more. Billy is damn good there is no denying that. Summer, Highland Falls always spoke to me more than anything that Billy did I suppose. A blind piano player friend of mine Todd East used to cover it. I read a quote once from either Billy Joel or Brian Wilson ( can't remember which one) that at a certain point "you run out of things to say" Maybe that happened to Billy.

[jazzpiano88]

It's true that his work has been uneven, but I would chalk a lot of that up to marketing pressure combined with his personality that allowed him to succumb to that pressure, including money issues.

 

He's got a lot of songs that will last till the end of time.

 

[AnotherScott]

...and herein lies my issue with (the insanely talented and successful) Billy Joel: I don't really know what a Billy Joel song sounds like. Piano Man is Dylan, She's Right on Time is Kansas, New York State of Mind is Ray Charles, Scenes from an Italian Restaurant is Springsteen, Nylon Curtain (album) is the Beatles, Cold Spring Harbor (album) is Carole King etc etc.

...

And then that godawful 50's-revival album came out, the one with Uptown Girl, and that was the final nail.

From that perspective, one interesting thing about that album (An Innocent Man), is that it is a completely transparent, acknowledged homage to specific artists/sounds of the 50s, i.e. there's no attempt to say "this is what a BJ song sounds like" -- it is obviously his take on sounds that are not inherently his. You can even find song-by-song artist-by-artist breakdowns of whose work he is emulating. I happen to think he did it very well, I like the songs, and he does still bring his own flavor to them... but if you don't actually like the music that he used as inspiration, that I guess it's less likely you'd like what he did with it.

 

As for his "own" music, though, I actually think his best album was the one that immediately followed that one... The Bridge (I like 7 of the 9 songs, I don't think any of his other albums come close to that). The one after that, Storm Front, has some really nice stuff also, but is a bit more of a mixed bag.

 

I have always heard him as more of a kinda bland MOR/mainstream/A.C. (adult contemporary, not Atlantic City!) artist than a real rock'n'roller (and he's at his worst I'd say when he tries to convince us otherwise!)

 

This, completely.

I have a similar "complaint" about Paul Simon. Not the bland part. But I think he's terrific at what he does best, but he also sometimes comes across as a frustrated rock-and-roller, who periodically try to convince us that he is "also" a great rocker. James Taylor, too. But that just isn't where their strengths lie.

[ElmerJFudd]

It's funny how the industry and we like to pigeonhole artists. Anyone who successfully gets to explore styles outside of the one they broke in with deserves some credit - even if it's "derivative" which Billy has acknowledged while at the same time arguing everything is derivative.

 

In the case of his library, I enjoy his material that is quintessentially Billy Joel - where the accompaniment is on acoustic piano or a rhodes, the parts he created are as much a part of the tune as the song, and the lyrical topics are personal. He's all over tracks like Angry Young Man, Everybody Loves You Now, Piano Man. And then there are the big-hollywood-movie-tracks like Miami 2017 or Billy the Kid, Scenes from Italian Restaurant. These songs are epic entertainment, much more engrossing than listening to a pop song. Transporting. Liberty Devitto is a huge part of the Billy Joel sound too. You always hear his playing style and sound regardless of what they're paying homage to.

[AnotherScott]

It's funny how the industry and we like to pigeonhole artists. Anyone who successfully gets to explore styles outside of the one they broke in with deserves some credit

I agree, artists deserve credit for pushing their boundaries beyond what made them famous, but some do it better than others. I liked hearing David Bowie go in different directions, but some artists are better off sticking to a smaller canvas. ;-) As for BJ, though, while I don't like a lot of the rockers, the fact remains, they were some of his biggest hits.

 

even if it's "derivative" which Billy has acknowledged while at the same time arguing everything is derivative.

Yes, everything is derivative... but some hide it better. ;-)

[MathOfInsects]

"James" strikes me as a "Billy Joel" song.

[ElmerJFudd]

...as for BJ, though, while I don't like a lot of the rockers, the fact remains, they were some of his biggest hits.

 

Variety in the set list makes a live show flow better. There are some arts that stick to same feel, same bpm, same style all night long and it gets old quick but for the most die hard of fans. Comedians know it as well... it's all about changing up key and rhythm and knowing when to hit them with the hook, etc.

 

Remember in the 50s 60s when they'd bring out an act to do their current hit and shuffle them off stage for the next act? Some of these festivals for the kids like Warped Tour are sort of like that with 30 mins and out.

 

[retrokeys]

I was fortunate enough to see Billy Joel early in his career right after his second album came out. Tightest 5 piece ensemble I have ever heard before or since. Been a fan since "Piano Man."Those of us in house bands at the time loved him. The feeling was "one of us made it." As the years went by it seemed though that a strange thing was happening. When he was P.O.'d and miserable as when he was being ripped off by managers and accountants he wrote his best tunes. During the early Christie Brinkley days the songs got weaker and sort of sappy, IMHO. It's horrible thing to say, I know, and only hope that the reason he isn't writing anymore is because he is insanely happy now. I think he deserves it.

 

[AnotherScott]

...as for BJ, though, while I don't like a lot of the rockers, the fact remains, they were some of his biggest hits.

 

Variety in the set list makes a live show flow better. There are some arts that stick to same feel, same bpm, same style all night long and it gets old quick

Sure, and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. He has songs of many different tempos/feels that I like. I just don't much care for his "rock and roll" hits, i.e. from Glass Houses.

 

Remember in the 50s 60s when they'd bring out an act to do their current hit and shuffle them off stage for the next act? Some of these festivals for the kids like Warped Tour are sort of like that with 30 mins and out.

I saw the "Happy Together" tour last night, really enjoyed it, even though each act only played about 4 songs. ;-) Cowsills, Chuck Negron (3 Dog Night), The Association, Boxtops, Flo & Eddie (Turtles), and the guy who sang lead for the Archies. Fun show.

[SteveCoscia]

I was fortunate enough to see Billy Joel early in his career right after his second album came out. Tightest 5 piece ensemble I have ever heard before or since.

 

Me too. At the Calderone on Long Island. That band WAS tight. I think the drummer's name was Ron Tutt - great drum sound and a flashy player. That concert was memorable.

[Theo Verelst]

His oeuvre says a lot about what he thinks as a rational, intellectual human being with great artistic ability, so there's that as explanation. Maybe he got sick of all kinds of guys (mostly) seeing stardom as a creeping up from the bottom thing, with his art as a easy recipe for success over poetic goodness.

 

T.

[PianoMan51]

His oeuvre says a lot about what he thinks as a rational, intellectual human being with great artistic ability, so there's that as explanation. Maybe he got sick of all kinds of guys (mostly) seeing stardom as a creeping up from the bottom thing, with his art as a easy recipe for success over poetic goodness.

 

T.

 

But Theo, stardom IS a creeping up from the bottom. Unfortunately, those of us who have started from a more exalted position, such as a quality education, have that albatross hanging around our necks to prevent whatever talent we have from ever showing itself.

[MathOfInsects]

His oeuvre says a lot about what he thinks as a rational, intellectual human being with great artistic ability, so there's that as explanation. Maybe he got sick of all kinds of guys (mostly) seeing stardom as a creeping up from the bottom thing, with his art as a easy recipe for success over poetic goodness.

 

T.

 

But Theo, stardom IS a creeping up from the bottom. Unfortunately, those of us who have started from a more exalted position, such as a quality education, have that albatross hanging around our necks to prevent whatever talent we have from ever showing itself.

 

[Theo Verelst]

Apart from education level, it seems to me that the challenge for Mr Joel is not coming from his failing attempts to climb to Stardom with the use of technology, but rather from something completely different....

 

T

[HammondDave]

"I don't know what Billy Joel really sounds like"... I guess you can say the same thing about The Beatles. Listen to how their music and sound changed from album to album.

 

Knocking Billy Joel's songwriting and performance from people on the list who have not even contributed 10% of the great music that Billy has is really shocking to me. Here is a guy who produced hit records and great songs on a regular basis for many years. The man is a great songwriter/singer/musician, period.

 

I first saw him in 1976 alone at a piano... then saw his Turnstiles and The Stranger tour in 1000 seat theaters in 1977, then every consecutive tour up to An Innocent Man. Just saw him again this year on New Years Eve and at Dodger Stadium. Into his late 60's he still puts on a great show with great bands.

 

 

[Legatoboy]

Well I live in Billy Joel country, I have musician friends who are friends of his. He actually came to one of my gigs because of that. Closed my eyes on the 1st tune, positronic image in my head of a face (before any THC hit it, very weird indeed), opened my eyes and it's Billy at the 1st table at Nick's on the water in Montauk checking me out! Nuts!

 

One of my old band's gig diners was actually 'The Parkway Diner', also my brother's (drummer) age group (68) knew him personally because he played a lot of music joints up and down Northern Blvd into Queens along my bro's gigging route...

 

My buddy who was in Hot Tuna band for 18 years put it to me on night on a gig when they started doing those duo shows: So Tony - Elton or Billy Joel?

 

I said Billy! (I do like Elton too) ...why he said. I said because being a keyboard guy they way he plays and writes I can relate to it better. Billy with all that Tin Pan Alley vibe in his playing and writing just seems much closer to home I told him...he's more regional!

 

In Elton I can hear all that London-esque Hayden influence but Billy I mean Tin Pan Alley for me was a Subway ride on the IRT 7 train into Manhattan to the Brill Building... a lot closer to home in more ways than one somehow,more NYC / American (for me)!

 

My HT friend's choice: Elton, who is actually more mainline Rock and Roll, so I understand that! Don't get me wrong, Elton is wonderful and he did come from a Blues background coming out of Long John Baldrey's band,so!

 

Maybe I'm talking as a player here instead of 'an artist' but I'm more comfortable with his playing than Elton's for some reason...and I like his writing topics and he writes his own lyrics!

[MathOfInsects]

people on the list who have not even contributed 10% of the great music that Billy has

 

This is out of line. The number is more like .000000001%.

 

My opinion is meaningless. Enjoy and keep enjoying. We all find our candy in different stores....

[timwat]

Knocking Billy Joel's songwriting and performance from people on the list who have not even contributed 10% of the great music that Billy has is really shocking to me. Here is a guy who produced hit records and great songs on a regular basis for many years. The man is a great songwriter/singer/musician, period.

 

I'll just say that's one of the few things about this forum I find...interesting. It's also the reason I'll never, ever post a recording of my own playing here.

 

It's the internet, so I get it. It's easy to say the hypercritical thing here in a heartbeat.

 

But I also find it weird, especially about Billy Joel. He's one of the influences why a lot of us here on the forum stayed playing keys.

[MathOfInsects]

I'll just say that's one of the few things about this forum I find...interesting. It's also the reason I'll never, ever post a recording of my own playing here.

 

It's the internet, so I get it. It's easy to say the hypercritical thing here in a heartbeat.

 

But I also find it weird, especially about Billy Joel. He's one of the influences why a lot of us here on the forum stayed playing keys.

 

I've never seen anyone post a negative response to a member's playing. THAT is something I love about it here. Personally, I'd love to hear you play.

 

I don't see having an opinion about something you don't or can't do yourself as hypocritical. That's always been an odd response to me. If you don't like a meal, it's not because you think you can do better. It's because it's just not for you, that's all.

 

Having said that: A huge difference between NY and CA is how folks treat opinions. In NY, you are socialized that opinions are conversation-starters--an opening gambit as a means of engaging with someone you might enjoy talking with. You can have a whole conversation on the "other" side of an issue you'd otherwise agree with, just to keep the engagement going and see where it leads. In CA, you are socialized that disagreeing is rude, and that expressing a contrary opinion shuts a conversation down.

 

The, "Well, everyone sees it different I guess" response to opinions is one of the hardest parts of being a transplant. My instinct is always to think, "Right, and I'm trying to find out what YOU think, because it lets me learn about you, and keeping it from me is coded as disrespect where I come from." And the other person is thinking, "Why are they being so disrespectful by pushing me to disagree?? Sheesh, leave it alone!"

 

Potato potato. I called him insanely talented and successful. Much love and respect to anyone who finds pleasure in his music. We all have our bliss, I'm glad you found yours.

 

 

[synthizen2]

I have always heard him as more of a kinda bland MOR/mainstream/A.C. (adult contemporary, not Atlantic City!) artist than a real rock'n'roller (and he's at his worst I'd say when he tries to convince us otherwise!)

 

Ever since the 50's when Chuck Berry and his duck-walk guitar style (and Elvis with his shake-your-hips stage presence) stole the thunder away from guys like Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis (the keyboard-playing FOUNDERS of rock'n'roll)... it has been very tough to be a singing keyboard player and come across as a real rock'n'roller.

 

In the modern age, singers who play keyboard tend toward the confessional songwriter style of the late 60s onward. This usually means that the music is likely to gravitate toward older styles (jazz, broadway, music-hall, etc.) fused into the general rock style. So, "rock music" it is, but "rock and roll" I'm not so sure.

 

[Outkaster]

I have seen comments about people's playing but it has been awhile.

[Theo Verelst]

Some people's opinions stand out as with a pretty standard tendency toward things I don't appreciate, regardless of the West or East coast, Us/Uk English or more common European interpretation.