Sustain pedal opinions

[RoadHousePiano]

Hey all,I'm in the process of updating my entire rig and I'm wondering if anyone has any strong feelings (plus or minus) regarding sustain pedals. I currently have a Nord pedal (single) and a Roland pedal that I bought in the late 80's!! I'm going to be using an Electro 5D which I'll most likely continue using the NOrd pedal with. My lower board will be a controller (most likely SL88) that I'll be using along with my macbook and various VSt's. Some of the piano libraries I have can receive half pedaling signals. Any thoughts?

[MotiDave]

I've only used Yamaha FC4 and FC3. FC3 is the half-damper version but I never really figured either skill or need for half signal. It developed an open circuit in the cord right after about a year where it enters the pedal end but i think that was me - abuse. I 've used FC4 since, works fine for me. Nothing to A/B compare for you.

[allan_evett]

Unless you're playing solo piano, or a lot of exposed, sustained piano parts in an ensemble, a pedal with half damper control is probably unnecessary. For band work I've had the best luck with heavy-duty pedals that allow for use of a separate 1/4" cable. The pedals with attached cables eventually crap out over time. I've got a handful of Boss FS-5U pedals (the square, metal kind), which are slowly replacing my attached-cable pedals as they die off. I did see a piano-style sustain pedal with a female 1/4" jack, once; can't recall the brand though.

[Jazz+]

I have used Roland , Yamaha and M-Audio sustain pedals. The M-audio is nice and firm... but the internal pivot screw keeps loosening to the point it falls off and I have to open it and screw it back in every 4 months or so. I am about to buy a tube of lock-tite for it or switch back to reliable Yamaha.

 

Roland DP10 sustain pedals seem the almost too low tension in the spring for me,

 

 

[DanL]

I had the Yamaha pedal that supports the half dampering, it crapped out after about 2 years of steady use. Replaced it with the Roland model DP10 I think and it's been good for 3 years so far. I also have a Kurz dual sustain that is nice, I use it on my Electro and have 1 pedal for leslie speed and the other for sustain.

[miden]

Roland DP-10 first second and last Have used the Yammie FC3 but it, and probably other Yammie pedals of its type, only seem to work with Yamaha gear. The DP-10 seems to work with much more than Roland gear. AND it has the rybber mat attached to the front so your heel actually stops the pedal sliding all over the floor.

[Joe P]

I am using a Roland DP10 that I have had since the '80's. I took off the rubber when I put it on my pedal board. I bought another DP10 but it only lasted a year, so then I bought a Yamaha FC4 and that has been fine for the past 3 years or so.

 

I also have a Yamaha FC5 from the '80's that is still working, although for the last 10 years or so it has been mostly a hand operated Leslie speed switch.

[RoadHousePiano]

Unless you're playing solo piano, or a lot of exposed, sustained piano parts in an ensemble, a pedal with half damper control is probably unnecessary. For band work I've had the best luck with heavy-duty pedals that allow for use of a separate 1/4" cable. The pedals with attached cables eventually crap out over time. I've got a handful of Boss FS-5U pedals (the square, metal kind), which are slowly replacing my attached-cable pedals as they die off. I did see a piano-style sustain pedal with a female 1/4" jack, once; can't recall the brand though.

Hadnt thought of this angle, thanks!

[miden]

hmmm, my first DP-10 lasted about 13 years Just started on my second!

[MotiDave]

Unless you're playing solo piano, or a lot of exposed, sustained piano parts in an ensemble, a pedal with half damper control is probably unnecessary. For band work I've had the best luck with heavy-duty pedals that allow for use of a separate 1/4" cable. The pedals with attached cables eventually crap out over time. I've got a handful of Boss FS-5U pedals (the square, metal kind), which are slowly replacing my attached-cable pedals as they die off. I did see a piano-style sustain pedal with a female 1/4" jack, once; can't recall the brand though.

 

I play standing up, so its not realistic to even try to effectively control half-damp. I can stomp it to the ground, but I can't hold it at half-stomp, its akin to playing while standing on one foot - like a roadside sobriety test

[Bob L]

I use M-Audio. Reliable and seems OK when standing up. I am in a rock/funk cover band so not a lot of nuance needed for sustain....

[Lee T]

M-Audio for me as well. Have three of them and they've been reliable.

[Ashville.Guru]

To the OP, since you're using Gig Performer, you can remap the pedal input. Among other things, this means that:

1. You're not limited to thinking of half-damper effects on AP sounds. Think of the pedal as a substitute for aftertouch. Sky's the limit - tremolo, pitchbend, volume on a pad layer that you want to fade in and out quickly - you can use it for anything.
   
2. You never have to worry about polarity...! If a pedal is not compatible with your controller, simply remap in software. There are also USB pedal inputs that let you connect the pedal directly to the laptop.

- Guru

[Jazz+]

Warning: M Audio sustain pedals are not reliable. They have a design flaw in that the internal pivot screw will loosen with frequent use and eventually slip all the way off. I have had to open my pedal and re tighten the same screw every few months for the past year. Three of my students have the same pedal and the same slipping pivot screw problem. The pedal gets real loose and side shifty from side to side until it finally comes undone inside and has to be re screwed. My students don't play all the time like I do, so they barley notice the problem.

[RoadHousePiano]

To the OP, since you're using Gig Performer, you can remap the pedal input. Among other things, this means that:

1. You're not limited to thinking of half-damper effects on AP sounds. Think of the pedal as a substitute for aftertouch. Sky's the limit - tremolo, pitchbend, volume on a pad layer that you want to fade in and out quickly - you can use it for anything.
   
2. You never have to worry about polarity...! If a pedal is not compatible with your controller, simply remap in software. There are also USB pedal inputs that let you connect the pedal directly to the laptop.

- Guru

Great ideas and info, thank you!

[Markyboard]

To the OP, since you're using Gig Performer, you can remap the pedal input. Among other things, this means that:

1. You're not limited to thinking of half-damper effects on AP sounds. Think of the pedal as a substitute for aftertouch. Sky's the limit - tremolo, pitchbend, volume on a pad layer that you want to fade in and out quickly - you can use it for anything.
   
2. You never have to worry about polarity...! If a pedal is not compatible with your controller, simply remap in software. There are also USB pedal inputs that let you connect the pedal directly to the laptop.

- Guru

Great ideas and info, thank you!

 

I'm not sure why you would use a half damper pedal for these functions over a longer throw control pedal; unless maybe you want the quick return/release effect this type pedal offers :idk . I don't think you can achieve any kind of accuracy using a half damper.

 

I do use the FC3 with Ivory through a PC3x and much prefer it to a standard damper pedal.

[Ashville.Guru]

I'm not sure why you would use a half damper pedal for these functions over a longer throw control pedal; unless maybe you want the quick return/release effect this type pedal offers :idk . I don't think you can achieve any kind of accuracy using a half damper.

Agreed, the accuracy would be far less than that of a standard long-throw expression pedal. But I'd wager it would be no worse than aftertouch - perhaps a tad better.

 

So if there's any kind of expression that works better with aftertouch than long throw pedals, the damper pedal would be a better substitute. Honestly though, I don't know of many such musical requirements - where quick return to zero is more important than accuracy. Perhaps more experienced aftertouch users here can chime in...?

 

On a side note, it just struck me that maybe that's why aftertouch is fading out of the market - there just isn't much that an expression pedal won't do better...! :grin:

 

- Guru

[Reezekeys]

Aftertouch would have to be in any keyboard I ever buy. I have a synth lead sound that uses it to bend the pitch down slightly. The more options for controlling the sound the better, so why not, unless the cost differential is very high I suppose.

 

As far as half-damper pedals being unecessary for a lot of gigs, that may be true - but if your piano VI or other software supports it, I would still use one (mine does not). You can always use it as a simple on-off pedal if you want or need to but a switch sustain pedal will never do continuous sustain. Just because you don't use the feature now doesn't mean you might not ever use it. And maybe having it will make the light bulb come on and you'll be glad to have it then. I never even knew about release samples and sympathetic resonance back in the 90s when I was happily playing my Roland "Session" piano.

[tnelson]

The Fatar single, double and triple-pedal VFP units sold with Studiologic, Lachnit and various other keyboards are available separately. They include models with different combinations of potentiometer (continuous damper) and momentary (on/off) switches. I have a triple pedal VFP3-D version that is configured as soft (una corda), sostenuto, and damper (continuous sustain) pedals, as on a grand piano, for controlling Pianoteq, but you can set up as dynamic pedals for other uses, of course. I've had good experience...built like a tank, doesn't slip on the floor, although I usually add a rubbery shelf liner strip under the pedals and my heel to assure no movement. View options here: http://www.fatar.com/pages/VFP3.htm