Korg Grandstage

[AnotherScott]

If they do make the VOX how do you guys feel about them not making the keys waterfall and going with these touch pad drawbars rather than pulls?

I won't know for sure until I try it, but conceptually, I kind of like the idea of touch strips, because they will always be in the "right" place when you call up different presets (yet still with the kind of direct control that you don't get from Nord's drawbuttons).

 

I also don't care too much about waterfall. Some "real" Hammonds didn't have them, and I'm among those who felt that the curved lip 1st generation digital CX3 felt better to play than the later waterfall version, and I'm not a big fan of Nord's waterfall because the keys are a bit too tightly spring for my taste. Waterfall is just one piece of the puzzle to me, and not the most important one. What's most important is that it feels great, and there's no "spec" for that.

[burningbusch]

The LS action is definitely light but I didn't find it springy. It felt different than the Kronos 61. Still smooth. There were no headphones on the LS so I couldn't determine how much effort it takes to smash into MIDI vel 127.

 

Busch.

[AnotherScott]

So can we 'hear' the thing now ? The looks are known.........now i want to hear the thing

Well Busch says it sounds like the Kronos... which, even if there are some differences, probably tells you more about what it sounds like than you'd be able to tell from a NAMM video on youtube. ;-) But here you go, and not bad... he demonstrates a good variety of sounds, and it's a "big stage" demo so at least we're not hearing it on the expo floor surrounded by all kinds of other noises!

 

https://www.facebook.com/kcs.news/videos/10154163546195143/

 

This also confirms what Busch said earlier...

 

The seven engines are:

SGX-2

EP-1

CX-3

HD-1

AL-1

Vox Organ

Farfisa Organ

 

And there is definitely a bunch of on-board editability beyond the obvious front panel controls, as he talked about, for the SGX-2 engine, the ability to adjust things like string resonance, mechanical noise, etc., and the ability to adjust the various tabs and such on the vox/farfisa models.

 

Other tidbits:

64 gigabyte storage

XLR outs

SST ("patch remain") functionality

new upright piano

new electric grand

new FM piano sounds

 

(maybe the new sounds also make it into a Kronos update?)

 

and from the other posted videos, I noticed

Built-in power supply (no wall wart)

USB A and B (making me hopeful it may directly support things like a NanoKontrol, as the Kronos does)

 

 

[Ulf]

XLR outs

SST ("patch remain") functionality

...

Built-in power supply (no wall wart)

 

Well, well, a big THANK YOU, Korg!

[zephonic]

I do hope they change the name though...

 

They should bring back the SG nomenclature. Because Kenny Kirkland.

[Alexander Nagel]

XLR outs

 

... with built-in ground-lift switch!!!!

[Al Coda]

 

I miss those days of flat topped boards that you could place your top board directly on.

 

+1 !

 

A.C.

[vanderSchoot]

So can we 'hear' the thing now ? The looks are known.........now i want to hear the thing

Well Busch says it sounds like the Kronos... which, even if there are some differences, probably tells you more about what it sounds like than you'd be able to tell from a NAMM video on youtube. ;-) But here you go, and not bad... he demonstrates a good variety of sounds, and it's a "big stage" demo so at least we're not hearing it on the expo floor surrounded by all kinds of other noises!

 

https://www.facebook.com/kcs.news/videos/10154163546195143/

 

This also confirms what Busch said earlier...

 

The seven engines are:

SGX-2

EP-1

CX-3

HD-1

AL-1

Vox Organ

Farfisa Organ

 

And there is definitely a bunch of on-board editability beyond the obvious front panel controls, as he talked about, for the SGX-2 engine, the ability to adjust things like string resonance, mechanical noise, etc., and the ability to adjust the various tabs and such on the vox/farfisa models.

 

Other tidbits:

64 gigabyte storage

XLR outs

SST ("patch remain") functionality

new upright piano

new electric grand

new FM piano sounds

 

(maybe the new sounds also make it into a Kronos update?)

 

and from the other posted videos, I noticed

Built-in power supply (no wall wart)

USB A and B (making me hopeful it may directly support things like a NanoKontrol, as the Kronos does)

 

Thanks !! That's a lot of 'stage piano' (64GB) !! Great specs, althaugh they don't mean everything,......

[AnotherScott]

The SV1 had a "local off" button which was in theory a handy shortcut for triggering an external source, though it was kind of "half implemented" in that there was no similarly quick way to turn off the MIDI out if you then *only* wanted to hear the internal sound. On a Kronos, you can do this with Combis that give you whatever combination you want of internal and external sounds. I wonder whether the editing on the Grandstage allows you to create front panel user presets that do or do not transmit MIDI (perhaps also including what channel that particular preset will transmit on, and maybe even a program change).

 

There was also the question earlier about whether you could import Kronos sounds into it (if they were based on the engines the two keyboards have in common). As an extension of that, I wonder about the possibility of loading custom samples (which its HD1 engine supports). Although it doesn't have the sampling hardware itself as the Kronos does, it does have that 64 GB storage capacity, and if it isn't full up, it would be cool to be able to bring in your own samples via computer/USB.

[Bachus]

The Korg grand stage video demo

30 minutes from NAMM

 

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/15/korg-grand-stage

 

[niacin]

I love my Korg SV-1. Except for the bulk. And the difficulty of putting another keyboard on top of it. And the lack of a pitch wheel. So if they bring this out under $2k I'm pretty much sold. True, as a solo piano it has no stage presence: I did actually laugh when I read the 'Grandstage' name and then saw Jack Hotop sitting behind this tiny keyboard. It ain't grand, and it has absolutely no stage presence. But this with a Mojo-61 above it would be a killer live rig. IMHO.

[HAMEGZ]

The Korg grand stage video demo

30 minutes from NAMM

 

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/15/korg-grand-stage

 

And speaking of prototype, did you catch the patch change glitch early on ? SV1 heritage..

 

Other than that, sounded good from the recording

[AnotherScott]

I love my Korg SV-1. Except for the bulk. And the difficulty of putting another keyboard on top of it. And the lack of a pitch wheel.

...and the limitation of just a single bank of 8 quick preset buttons

...and the lack of a display that shows you the name of the selected sound

...and the very limited split functionality

and some other quibbles.

 

So yeah, the Grandstage seems to address a whole lot, plus provide a ton of other sounds. You lose some real-time effect controls, though honestly, I wouldn't miss those so much. My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.

 

[J. Dan]

Maybe I missed it, but any idea of price range yet? I have a friend who is currently using the krome but was thinking of switching to the SV-1 due to the ease of user interface live. Problem is that it would be missing some of the sounds needed compared to krome. Seems like this would be perfect for her, but guessing maybe out of her budget....hard to say. She plays in a Fleetwood Mac tribute.

[Josh Paxton]

My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.

 

This is my feeling as well. The Wurli on the SV1 had a character that the Kronos couldn't match. I suspect the tube was a big part of it, so while I hope the new board captures it, I'm not holding my breath. Then again, since no other hardware board does either, this might end up being a contender for me, depending on the details.

[Dave Ferris]

My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.

 

This is my feeling as well. The Wurli on the SV1 had a character that the Kronos couldn't match. I suspect the tube was a big part of it, so while I hope the new board captures it, I'm not holding my breath. Then again, since no other hardware board does either, this might end up being a contender for me, depending on the details.

 

I had only a 3 gig experience with the Kronos 73 and only playing piano in a jazz quartet context - I didn't play any EPs on the Kronos then.

 

I owned two SV1s and thought the Wurli and Rhodes were the best out of any keyboard I've used. Although there's nothing wrong - at least for me- with the ones on the CP4. I did feel the SV1 had that special vibe in that area more then the CP4.

 

I sure hope they tweak the design a bit. The thing is nowhere as cool looking as the SV1 imo.

[niacin]

My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.

 

This is my feeling as well. The Wurli on the SV1 had a character that the Kronos couldn't match. I suspect the tube was a big part of it, so while I hope the new board captures it, I'm not holding my breath. Then again, since no other hardware board does either, this might end up being a contender for me, depending on the details.

 

I had the same experience playing a Kronos and the SV-1. It wasn't the tube though, the wurli and Rhodes sounds I love in the SV-1 don't have the tube on - the amp sims do just great. I didn't spend enough time with the Kronos to know if these sounds could be duplicated on it (and therefore on the Grandstage), but I've never heard any Kronos eps with the character of those in the SV-1.

 

Yeh the SV-1 looks absolutely killer, but hidden under a clonewheel my care factor is gonna be pretty much zero.

[AnotherScott]

I had the same experience playing a Kronos and the SV-1. It wasn't the tube though, the wurli and Rhodes sounds I love in the SV-1 don't have the tube on - the amp sims do just great.

I am unclear myself about how much difference the tube makes (or in which instances it makes more of a difference), but AFAIK, the tube is always engaged, it's impossible to turn it off or bypass it. Though you also make a good point about the amp simulations... maybe someone here knows for sure, but I don't think the Kronos includes the same amp modeling functionality that's in the SV1, and so that could also be an open question in terms of the Grandstage.

[jerrythek]

The sound engine in the SV-1 is different than the Kronos or the Grandstage. The SV-1 was not the EP-1 technology, it is based purely on PCM samples, but the engine is more akin to the Pa engine and not the HD-1.

 

And at least from the SV-1 vs. Kronos perspective the sample data is not the same. I do not know anything about the Grandstage development background.

 

But I don't think you'll be able to make exact comparisons between the model's sounds, and it is not just due to effects/the tube.

 

Regards,

 

Jerry

 

 

[AnotherScott]

The sound engine in the SV-1 is different than the Kronos or the Grandstage. The SV-1 was not the EP-1 technology, it is based purely on PCM samples, but the engine is more akin to the Pa engine and not the HD-1.

 

And at least from the SV-1 vs. Kronos perspective the sample data is not the same. I do not know anything about the Grandstage development background.

 

But I don't think you'll be able to make exact comparisons between the model's sounds, and it is not just due to effects/the tube.

I understand the modeling EP1 engine of the Kronos and Grandstage is completely different from the strictly PCM sample-based SV1, and it's an interesting point that even the PCM sample-based HD1 engine is substantially different from what was in the SV1. Still, though, whether the Kronos (or Grandstage) HD1 sample set includes the sample data of the SV1 or not, at least in theory, there's no reason it can't. And the Kronos does include some HD1-based EP sounds in addition to its EP1 sounds. (Whether they use any of the same samples as are in the SV1, no clue.)

 

There is a marketing axiom that the easiest customer to sell to is one who has bought from you before. If Korg wants to make it as easy as possible for SV1 owners to want to upgrade to a Grandstage, I think it would be smart of them to include a bank of sounds that is as close as possible to the stock sounds of the SV1, so people can upgrade without feeling they'd necessarily be losing sounds that they've come to really like. Assuming that the Grandstage is actually capable of the same sounds. I mean, I don't see any reason they could not put the same PCM samples into the Grandstage, but whether the amp simulation and such can be duplicated, who knows. (And I guess there's also the variable of where they intend to price the Grandstage vis-a-vis the SV1 and whether they intend to keep the SV1 in the line, those things could affect marketing strategy too.)

[ElmerJFudd]

Piano Man Chuck has his hands on a decent video from the prototype demo...

 

[video:youtube]

 

The video isn't focusing well - no big deal... but the acoustic pianos aren't making me grin... can't tell too much, maybe the amplification is fair, or more likely the phone mic is getting some weird reflections, it's all a bit muffled. Although a lot of you guys have said the Kronos pianos aren't mind blowing without tweaking the presets. But from this early listen, he's getting shit for dynamic expression off the action (or the audio has been highly compressed, or he's just banging away). I can't tell. If you jump in the video from Italian to German to Japanese - it all sounds very similar. The upright sounds unique. The acoustic bass split sounds like mud. I'm going to chalk it up to it just being a shit audio capture on this video. Hopefully we get something legit from Korg soon. But then again, I was really psyched when the SV-1 came out and when I got to play it the action was a downer, many of the sounds were average, although I loved the user interface. Honestly, I was thinking even back then, "why didn't they give it a few engines from the Kronos?", and now they have and maybe they've refined the user interface. One thing is for sure, there is a boatload of sound types in this prototype - especially the synth stuff which one would expect from KORG. Now that I think about it, I think Busch is right, we may very well be seeing a very similar (sound engine wise) instrument to what we might expect in the VOX. I'll keep an open mind - itching to play the final products.

[AnotherScott]

Here's a better quality version of that video:

 

https://www.facebook.com/Kronoshaven/videos/1216103175109932/

 

I was really psyched when the SV-1 came out...Honestly, I was thinking even back then, "why didn't they give it a few engines from the Kronos?",

Maybe because the Kronos wasn't out yet. ;-) (SV1 came out in 2009, Kronos in 2011.) SV1 was also a much less expensive board than the Kronos would turn out to be (and far less expensive than the contemporary OASYS).

[ElmerJFudd]

That's true, I first played the SV-1 at NAMM 2010, same day I played the CP1 which played and sounded pretty darn good in comparison, but was a totally different vibe.

 

On Kronos engines in the SV-1, you totally resequenced and jogged my memory - I've often thought looking at the SV-1, which is still available, that it was lacking- post Kronos - price point taken into consideration. But thankfully now, we are getting some trickle down tech. Will they price Grandstage replacing SV-1? Or put it up against CP4 or RD-2000?

 

Thanks for link to this shoot of the same presentation. Noticeably better.

[AnotherScott]

Will they price Grandstage replacing SV-1? Or put it up against CP4 or RD-2000?

My earlier post in this thread predicted $2400-$2500 for the 73... and on that facebook page I just linked to for the better video, I just saw "Rumor says it would be around 2500" - I assume I didn't start that rumor. ;-)

[ElmerJFudd]

Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.

[niacin]

Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.

 

If the retail for the 88 is $2500 the street price for the 73 should come in a little under $2k. Fingers crossed.

[burningbusch]

[video:youtube]

 

Busch.

[ProfD]

IMO, the SV-1 has a better sound, feel and vibe than the Kronos especially when it comes EPs.

 

So, I'm definitely curious to see and hear if the Grandstage can provide the SV-1 feel and vibe along with some Kronos functionality. That would be great.

 

I hope the Grandstage does not come aKross as a Krome or Kronos-lite in a digital piano.

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.

 

If the retail for the 88 is $2500 the street price for the 73 should come in a little under $2k. Fingers crossed.

I was talking about the 73. Are we even sure yet that there will definitely be an 88? Regardless, the price difference between the 73 and 88 boards with RH3 action is only $200 on the SV1, $300 on the Kronos (which also includes aftertouch).

[niacin]

Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.

 

If the retail for the 88 is $2500 the street price for the 73 should come in a little under $2k. Fingers crossed.

I was talking about the 73. Are we even sure yet that there will definitely be an 88? Regardless, the price difference between the 73 and 88 boards with RH3 action is only $200 on the SV1, $300 on the Kronos (which also includes aftertouch).

 

If the competition is say Roland's RD2000, listed at Sweetwater for $2500, and Yamaha's CP4, listed for $2300, then I would think the 88 would want to come in at certainly no more probably a little less, given most of us would rate the piano sounds and action of both the RD2000 and the CP4 as better than the Kronos. So I'm still fairly hopeful of a 73 at a street price under $2k. No idea of a release date yet though?