Roland RD-2000

[ElmerJFudd]

Most definitely Roland has long had a trademark or stamp on their sounds... Well, at one point I'm understanding that was really Eric Persing from Spectrasonics. But they stuck to this into the Supernatural libraries. I remember seeing that Supernatural branding all over their digital piano line when it hit and went from model to model on the showroom floor and felt it was definitely a Roland sound... the timbre and the fx and fx settings. So I get where this sentiment comes from. On the other hand it has worked for them... awful lot of pop records in a few sub genres with these sounds on them. They are all in on the V-piano sound now. It's all over the better models too like that PHA-50. It too is a Roland timbre, at least in how they've done the main presets. But it's there's a lot of control in the full modeling engine - one might be able to get different out of it - at least on the models that offer full editing.

[Spotting Jonah]

You all have amazing ears. Seriously... I admire you guys. I'm jealous. All I hear are great pianos. I always tweak to taste anyway, and can always get something nice out of most modern stuff.

 

For me it's the feel of the keys, of which I prefer Roland's pro line over everything else.

 

I'm going back to my cab, where I can taste the difference between a Napa Valley Stags Leap cab and a Howell Mountain cab. You guys can figure out what piano sounds best. 80s rock screwed my ears up! :-)

[AnotherScott]

You all have amazing ears. Seriously... I admire you guys. I'm jealous. All I hear are great pianos.

I think we've gotten really spoiled. Decades ago, some lusted after a CP70 (Electric Grand) because finally there would be a way to get a "real" piano sound on stage without an actual grand supplied, and now a CP70 sample is considered its own thing, and not considered a "real" piano sound at all!

 

I'm not as fussy as some here. If I'm recording, I have access to a real grand piano and a VST I'm happy with. Live, I've been happy with some stuff that many here would certainly pooh-pooh. (Though unlike some here, I'm not doing, say, solo jazz piano.) Though there are also ones that rub me the wrong way, so I guess I've gotten a bit spoiled, too.

[ElmerJFudd]

Musical genres of course are a factor here. Solo piano, jazz and classical, and really songs that are written for piano, voice and piano, especially the stuff that sounds best unmic'd or minimal sound reinforcement - this is where the piano enthusiasts all wish for the timbre of a digital piano to be like a grand piano (of course, maintained, tuned, etc.).

 

As effort put into advancements in tech show - this crowd isn't small. Clearly there is a market for bringing the sound of $20k and up (and up and up) instruments under the fingers of the masses (well at least the mass of acoustic piano enthusiasts. Each generation of tech also proves that it's hard to virtualize or emulate a real cast iron harp, 230 strings, and a sound board, felt hammers etc!

[Moonglow]

Roland RD-2000 preset #1 Stage Grand. Sounds good.

 

I don't like it.

 

I don't like it there either. It sounded better to me then that when I played it for 20 minutes even with the lame Roland phones. It sounds processed and synthetic there, not as organic as when I played it.

Same here. The piano in the above demo does sound processed and synthetic, and similar to previous experiences I've had with the V-Piano. It has this kind of metallic thing going on. I have never been a Roland piano fan, but I really enjoyed the RD-2000 through headphones at NAMM.

[nadroj]

In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?

[marczellm]

In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?

Does it really make a difference? The only things new to SN are PWM and some filter types.

 

Many of the synth presets listed here are familiar from the JUNO-G which is a rompler. However I've seen when trying out the FA-06 that many of those patches were recreated on / converted to the SN engine and included with the same name and sound.

[vanderSchoot]

What i really don't understand that anyone would pay over 2000,- for a stage piano....the irony, because i can...

I did it for years, believing this was the only way to improve on my sounds.

Occasionally i added an expensive module, but ended up purchasing the new stage digital after some years.

 

Now i am dissapointed with all hardware brands from a sound perspective.

Sure one needs a board for live music, but i personally am not going to bother with the top category anymore since i also went the software route a year and a half ago.

 

I have a couple of top acoustic piano, electric piano, guitar and bass vst's.

It feels strange and some sort of bad dream to play and listen to the hardware equivalents in my arsenal and in musicstores.

 

The new RD2000 main piano is a really poor attempt compared to the Garritan CFX and others.

I have just purchased the new Neo Soul studio and compared to that the Nord electric piano's are also a sort of a joke.

I was only interrested in hardware for decades, but i admit it was a very wrong decision not to bother with vst's also.

 

Partly because i was stubborn and lazy, but also because i swallowed the marketing hype from the hardware brands claiming they were on top with their latest ''super natural'',''harmonic imaging XL'', ''spectral componant modelling'' and ''full modelling''.

I understand that for live use the reliable hardware unit remains the most ideal solution, but i can figuratively bang myself on the head for missing out on far superiour sounds for years.

 

I really hope that the new owners enjoy every bit of their RD2000, but i am still grumpy for believing the marketing overhyped crap the ''A brands'' of this world have blinded me with.

 

[Macsaint777]

In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?

 

As far as I can see comparing the parameter guides and sound lists between the RD 2000 and the RD 800 (which I previously owned) the ONLY thing different about the RD 2000 sound wise, is the addition of the VPiano engine. The PCM (Supernatural) engine is identical to the RD 800, so no VA synth in here like say, the JP-80.

[ElmerJFudd]

What i really don't understand that anyone would pay over 2000,- for a stage piano....the irony, because i can...

I did it for years, believing this was the only way to improve on my sounds.

Occasionally i added an expensive module, but ended up purchasing the new stage digital after some years.

 

Now i am dissapointed with all hardware brands from a sound perspective.

Sure one needs a board for live music, but i personally am not going to bother with the top category anymore since i also went the software route a year and a half ago.

 

I have a couple of top acoustic piano, electric piano, guitar and bass vst's.

It feels strange and some sort of bad dream to play and listen to the hardware equivalents in my arsenal and in musicstores.

 

The new RD2000 main piano is a really poor attempt compared to the Garritan CFX and others.

I have just purchased the new Neo Soul studio and compared to that the Nord electric piano's are also a sort of a joke.

I was only interrested in hardware for decades, but i admit it was a very wrong decision not to bother with vst's also.

 

Partly because i was stubborn and lazy, but also because i swallowed the marketing hype from the hardware brands claiming they were on top with their latest ''super natural'',''harmonic imaging XL'', ''spectral componant modelling'' and ''full modelling''.

I understand that for live use the reliable hardware unit remains the most ideal solution, but i can figuratively bang myself on the head for missing out on far superiour sounds for years.

 

I really hope that the new owners enjoy every bit of their RD2000, but i am still grumpy for believing the marketing overhyped crap the ''A brands'' of this world have blinded me with.

 

Hey, vanderSchoot. I wouldn't even differentiate hardware instruments from VSTs/software running on your personal computer. It's all the same type of technology. If it's sample based like Garritan CFX, then they've done extensive sampling at multiple velocity levels, different microphone positions, including additional sounds like pedal noise, etc. And if it's top modern it also includes a string resonance algorithm. The same technology it being implemented on modern "hardware" like the Kurzweil Forte. If it's modeled like Modartt's Pianoteq then it's basically the same technology that we see in the V-Piano, now trickling down to the RD-2000. It's just software running on different operating systems and chipsets. The rapid advancement of sound engines running on common operating systems like Windows and Mac OS has and is pushing the "hardware" developers to offer the same on custom DSP platforms or even off the shelf components and Linux like the Korg Kronos. The differentiation you're describing are the limitations of the previous generation of "hardware" digital instruments which were and are still using limited ROM storage for short and compressed audio samples.

 

Who's sample libraries or modeling software sound best is subjective regardless of marketing speak and branding. And the choice of wether you prefer to cart around a laptop or tablet and a controller or a more complete "hardware" solution is also a matter of preference.

 

The real irony is how much it all translates to you and your audience in live play. And to that extent, I'll debate that you're just as well focus on your amplification choices as you are your sound engine choices. What good is the tech if no one can hear the difference?

[vanderSchoot]

Hey, vanderSchoot. I wouldn't even differentiate hardware instruments from VSTs/software running on your personal computer. It's all the same type of technology.

Hi Elmer,........true but corn is the major basis for multiple food products too, some are very tasty others not so much.

If it's sample based like Garritan CFX, then they've done extensive sampling at multiple velocity levels, different microphone positions, including additional sounds like pedal noise, etc. And if it's top modern it also includes a string resonance algorithm. The same technology it being implemented on modern "hardware" like the Kurzweil Forte.

The bolded part is a major, major advantage in favour of the vst, not found in the mostly closed miked stage piano.

The different mikes add to the memory samplepool rapidly and therefor the Garritan is still more than ten times bigger than the biggest Kurzweil Forte pianosample.Size isn't everything, but in case of the top vst's it becomes evident what the huge advantages are.

But in my opinion 15+ sample layers, pedal layers and multiple mike options in a top vst is no match for any hardware digital piano with much smaller specs and therefor limited choices due to limited memory.

 

If it's modeled like Modartt's Pianoteq then it's basically the same technology that we see in the V-Piano, now trickling down to the RD-2000. It's just software running on different operating systems and chipsets. The rapid advancement of sound engines running on common operating systems like Windows and Mac OS has and is pushing the "hardware" developers to offer the same on custom DSP platforms or even off the shelf components and Linux like the Korg Kronos. The differentiation you're describing are the limitations of the previous generation of "hardware" digital instruments which were and are still using limited ROM storage for short and compressed audio samples.

 

Who's sample libraries or modeling software sound best is subjective regardless of marketing speak and branding. And the choice of wether you prefer to cart around a laptop or tablet and a controller or a more complete "hardware" solution is also a matter of preference.

 

The real irony is how much it all translates to you and your audience in live play. And to that extent, I'll debate that you're just as well focus on your amplification choices as you are your sound engine choices. What good is the tech if no one can hear the difference?

Mostly valid points !

 

 

[nadroj]

In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?

Does it really make a difference? The only things new to SN are PWM and some filter types.

 

Many of the synth presets listed here are familiar from the JUNO-G which is a rompler. However I've seen when trying out the FA-06 that many of those patches were recreated on / converted to the SN engine and included with the same name and sound.

 

I happen to get along well with the SN VA synth, was wondering if the 2000 had the ability to create sounds from scratch.

[Macsaint777]

As far as Pianoteq goes, I haven't heard any of their instruments that sounded right across the whole keyboard range. The upper register especially is not nearly percussive enough to pass for a piano, in my personal opinion (except perhaps the Blüthner). It is baffling to me that Nord has managed to make such good sounding samples from very very small sound files...yet they rival what is found in the Montage and Kronos in terms of realism (again, my opinion). What I've heard from the RD 2000 so far, as well as the SuperNATURAL pianos from their previous keyboards, sounds and plays a lot better than Pianoteq, so whatever they are doing, it goes a long way towards working really well for me, especially in a live band mix. I used to use the RD 800 Concert Grand NX (SuperNATURAL) piano live over my Nord Piano 2 because of the way the sound would ring out and had a fullness and ability to cut that I could not get out of the Nord Piano 2, no matter how much EQing I did.

 

I will grant that the VPiano and SuperNATURAL Piano don't sound exactly like a real piano, but they are very good for me in most cases.

[Macsaint777]

Sweetwater is suggesting early April.

 

 

I called Roland and spoke with Scott Berry, as well as had Sweetwater ask them about approximate delivery date for their shipment. I got the call from Sweetwater today that Roland had finally gotten back with them and said early April.

 

Since I preordered the RD 2000, I'm chomping at the bit to get it! I've got a Nord Electro 5D 73 with waterfall keys, and while they are fantastic for Organ, they are not good at all for piano, my principal instrument.

 

[Spotting Jonah]

I called Roland and spoke with Scott Berry, as well as had Sweetwater ask them about approximate delivery date for their shipment. I got the call from Sweetwater today that Roland had finally gotten back with them and said early April.

 

Awesome!! Thanks for the update. Scott is a great guy... I placed my order in late January, so hopefully I'm in the first batch!! Risky, I know, but what the heck...

[Macsaint777]

New Videos on YouTube.

 

Scott Tibbs RD-2000 Demo at Full Compass.

 

[brooster1]

 

[Macsaint777]

 

 

Really like the Aco Piano 3 here! It is now clear that this machine has the entire sound set of an RD-800 with a few additional voices reworked as Tine EPs, as well as the new RD-1000 sounds and of course, the V-Piano engine and its 10 sounds. That awful Concert Grand default sound from the RD-800 is here, but thankfully so are the NX Pianos! Good demos.. and any of you stateside who are looking for an RD-2000, they are now shipping from Guitar Center, but nowhere else until early April.

 

Cheers!

[Al Coda]

 

 

Lots of Rhodes in that "real world scenario".

Acoustic piano from 19:40min ...

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLwl1cke8W4

 

A.C.

[Spotting Jonah]

Looks like Sweetwater may be getting their first lot a little early!

[Macsaint777]

Yes, my order is set to come in Tuesday, March 21st. They said I should have it by Friday the 24th! Can't wait! Been without 88 weighted keys too long. I love you Nord Electro 5D, but I need my Piano keys back!

 

 

[brooster1]

[Spotting Jonah]

I'm not one to normally gripe, but man those videos are utterly worthless.

 

Awkward camera angle, distracting background music, no voice-over... am I the only one with this assessment?

 

I hope I'm not alone with wishing manufacturers would figure out that we can learn the basics on our own, but some in-depth "how to" videos with proper camera angles would be huge. I miss Formidoni doing those Kronos Webcasts.

 

Gripe over...

[Macsaint777]

You are not alone at all! I echo every one of your sentiments as I sit here and watch these videos. They are really very poorly done, and that music, could they not just have silence between showing us these various functions, especially when some of the functions are the sounds of the keyboard?! One thing that concerns me here that I also read about in the manual, is that only four internal sounds can be layered at once. It's possible that's not correct, but that is how the manual reads, and that is what is shown here. I will know by Friday!

 

I will do a full review, with video if possible but most definitely with sound cloud example links and post it both here and in the Piano forums.

 

Cheers!

[Legatoboy]

I love Rolands in a lot of ways I really do...but their digital piano sounds have always posed a problem for me EQ-wise live in various ambiences....love to take the 2000 to a gig for a night's test drive....I'd know right away if they got that right (for my taste)..Yamahas were always more predictable EQ wise for me and pretty consistent room to room after a few EQ adjustments. Pretty much after the first tune or two I'd know what I'd get out of a Yamaha for the gig....even If I liked aspects of the Roland sound better....they posed a problem for me that way...one tune they's sound OK the next tune the EQ would be driving me crazy with what I heard or didn't hear!

 

GC here on LI has an RD-800 for rental up on the wall....wonder if they will replace it with a 2000?

[xp50player]

No, there are up to 8 internal parts in a Program, formerly called a Live Set. The 4 is reference to the number of Mod/Tremolo/Amp effects blocks. Only zone/parts 1-4 can use those, and V-Piano engine structure does not allow them. V-Piano can only be zone 1, so you only get to use mod/trem/amp inserts on parts 2-4 in that case. Really, only the SN EP/Clav/TW tones are programmed with mod FX, so the 4 mod effect limit is not a big deal. Got mine on pre-order too

[Macsaint777]

No, there are up to 8 internal parts in a Program, formerly called a Live Set. The 4 is reference to the number of Mod/Tremolo/Amp effects blocks. Only zone/parts 1-4 can use those, and V-Piano engine structure does not allow them. V-Piano can only be zone 1, so you only get to use mod/trem/amp inserts on parts 2-4 in that case. Really, only the SN EP/Clav/TW tones are programmed with mod FX, so the 4 mod effect limit is not a big deal. Got mine on pre-order too

 

Good to know! I wondered about that, thanks for clearing it up! Congrats! Sweetwater says mine should be here in a week. I had an RD-800 and I know there is not a ton of change here, but I really miss my 88 keys!

[ElmerJFudd]

^^^

Macsaint shared the non V-Piano, SuperNatural piano tones from the RD-2000 on soundcloud. Captured from the USB audio out to Mac and recorded into Logic - no other processing.

 

Mac, do you know what sample rate the USB audio RD-2000 to your Mac is running at? Do you feel these represent the sounds pretty well, or do they sound different from the analog outs and and/or headphone jack on the RD-2000?

 

 

 

[Macsaint777]

^^^

Macsaint shared the non V-Piano, SuperNatural piano tones from the RD-2000 on soundcloud. Captured from the USB audio out to Mac and recorded into Logic - no other processing.

 

Mac, do you know what sample rate the USB audio RD-2000 to your Mac is running at? Do you feel these represent the sounds pretty well, or do they sound different from the analog outs and and/or headphone jack on the RD-2000?

 

 

 

ElmerJFudd, the RD-2000 runs native at 192kHZ/24 bit. I think the USB interface sounds identical to what I hear on my monitors and headphones normally with the RD-2000. It has a very clean sound, bright and punchy with a noticeable improvement over the RD-800. I just finished recording examples of all the Pads from the keyboard for another interested party and I I felt the final product was good. I will be leaving my Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre at home and using the RD-2000 as my interface with Omnisphere and my other plugins from here on. I am very very pleased.

[Spotting Jonah]

Change your signature!! Congratulations!!!!

 

Mine arrives Tuesday... can't wait!!