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Weekend Warrior Keyboard Amplification Poll


cphollis

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I know we spend endless hours here debating various keyboards, but amplification? Not so much.

 

If you're willing, I'd like to crowdsource a guide for the many unwashed that I meet. I believe that finding decent boards isn't that hard. Amplification, a bit harder.

 

I'd like to suggest a series of categories (open to debate) and invite all to suggest their favorite choices in three price classes. (1) minimally acceptable, (2) comfortable, and (3) spendy stuff.

 

I'm assuming an equal balance between acoustic pianos, organs, and synth/samples -- just for convenience. Size/weight matters. And APs are a bitch to amplify

 

My hope here is to create a reference for others to learn from?

 

If you are willing, here are my suggested categories ...

 

(1) Home situation: studio, living room or similar.

(a) minimally acceptable

(b) balance between price and results

© spendy stuff

 

(2) Acoustic gig: singer/songwriter or small combo in a coffeehouse type situation.

(a) minimally acceptable

(b) balance between price and results

© spendy stuff.

 

(3) Electric band in a small venue: you're responsible for your own amplification.

(a) minimally acceptable

(b) balance between price and results

© spendy stuff

 

(4) Outdoor gig -- modest, but you're still responsible for your own amplification.

(same as above)

 

(5) Larger gig -- there's a decent PA and sound guy, all you need is your personal monitor if the band isn't using IEMs.

(same as above)

 

Lots of smart, experienced keyboard folks on this board. Just to get the party going, here is what I would currently advise folks ...

 

(1) Home situation

(a) minimally acceptable -- sorry, no recommendations

(b) bang for buck -- Focal CMS

© spendy -- bring on the Maggies and other home audiophile stuff.

 

(2) Acoustic coffeehouse gig

(a) minimally acceptable -- no recommendations

(b) bang for buck -- CPS SSv3

© spendy -- Bose L1 Model II, RCF TT08a

 

(3) Small electric band in a small venue (pub, etc.)

(a) Single ZLX-12P or ZXA1

(b) CPS SSv3

© a pair of EVs, Yammies or QSCs

 

(4) Outdoor gig, minimal PA support

(a) CPS SSv3

(b) a pair of EVs, Yammies, QSCs

© or -- hey -- a pair of RCF TT08as. I use Fulcrum Acoustic FA12acs. Very spendy. Ear candy, baby.

 

(5) Bigger gig, serious PA support.

(a) any single decent self-powered PA unit (Yamaha, EV, QSC, etc.) Keyboard amps might work here as well, e.g. Traynor et. al.

(b) a pair of the same

© IEMs with your own personal band mixer :)

 

I know my recommendations aren't perfect, that's why all you people are here!

 

Let'er rip!

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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Excellent thread idea.

 

My personal preference for KB amplification is PA speakers whether it is rehearsal space, studio or stage.

 

In terms of size, I recommend a quality 12-inch PA speaker. IMO, 12s are the best full range speaker size. A 12" combined with an 18" is magic.

 

8s and 10s are good for studio monitors and possibly acoustic gigs.

 

15s and 18s are for louder and/or gig situation requiring more low end.

 

I definitely would not recommend a KB amplifier for anything other than personal practice maybe. Yuck. :laugh::cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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I have never in my whole career played in a band where my personality nap amplification was the only amplification. Even playing in a Duo, we always ran through a PA and had personal monitors. So for me, whatever I use has to give me the whole mix.

 

My first choice, IF I can get my OWN mix with EVERYTHING in it is to use IEM's. I have the Shure PSM200 system but upgraded to the SCL315's.

 

If the above conditions aren't met, I gave up a long time ago trying to make IEM's work, and instead use a single K10. I have a very small line mixer to mix whatever instruments I'm playing - keys, guitar, sax, and can loop my mic throug channel 1 to get all of me from the K10. Usually there's enough bleed from all the other monitors in stage that I can make that work. Of course, if I can get some sort of mix from FOH, I can feed that in as well and use my own mixer to augment it. Of course all of my channels are split off individually for FOH so they can mix independently.

 

At home, when I'm practicing or making sounds for live, I monitor through he K10 to replicate the live environment. If I'm doing something more like mixing down audio for a video or that sort of thing, I use cans (AKG K240S) and then periodically take the mix to my living room stereo and car stereo to get wide perspective of the mix and make tweaks. I don't do much of his however. Almost everything I do is for live performance.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I have baby bear, mama bear, and papa bear amplification rigs. I've used these systems for years.

 

For the least demanding home/acoustic gigs, my baby bear Barbetta 31 does a nice job. It has four inputs using 2x8 plus tweeter. These things seem to be optimized for DPs as they can be demanding on combo amp packages. Tried a Yamaha CP-70B through it once and it sounded great. It can even pump some serious air from my Taurus pedals.

 

http://www.barbetta.com/html/Live/Sona_31/31.jpg

 

Moving up to electric and outdoor gigs, my Bose 802 speakers scale nicely depending on demand. With the companion 802c Controller I have the option to biamp. My old Moog Synamp has been a reliable and flexible workhorse with this system.

 

http://www.retrosynth.com/~analoguediehard/tour/bose/bose_802ii.jpg

 

http://www.retrosynth.com/~analoguediehard/tour/moog_synamp/moog_synamp-with-case.jpg

 

The mama bear setup is a single 802 which suffices for most situations. When outdoors or working with a loud band where a guitar player is using a 100 watt guitar amp, two 802 speakers can keep up. If playing LH bass or bass guitar, I drag out the papa bear setup using a biamp system with 1 or 2 802s plus a Peavey 2x15 bass cabinet. I replaced the 15" speakers with heavy duty EVMs as I got tired of blowing the original Peavey speakers.

 

That biamp system can easily handle an electronic drum set, and in a medium size room without a PA system it can be heard pretty well.

 

With a PA system, I run mono on stage and stereo in the PA.

 

With clonewheels, it depends. I'll use a Dynacord CLS-222 leslie simulator and go direct for the gigs where the demand for Hammond organ is minimal. I'll only drag out the Leslie 760 and the dual manual XK3c/XLK3 system for those times when I have the opportunity to really bust out my chops.

 

That's pretty much all I need. Yes it's all old stuff, but it's not broken and there is no compelling reason for me to replace it. Sorry I can't offer any input on new gear or balance between price and performance as I am just not actively seeking to replace anything.

 

One other group I play in is the jazz band at work. They bought a Roland KC amp for the DP before my time, and frankly the only way they sound good is through the mic channel. All the other input channels are tone sucking black holes. I've heard other combo amps in stores or with other friends and frankly they don't impress me.

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I know we spend endless hours here debating various keyboards, but amplification? Not so much.

 

That's because there IS no debate. The Roland KC series is universally regarded as the best. Case closed.

I actually find that VB3-2 responds better through my KB300 than my EV powered speaker. The KB300 is a 15" with a dual piezo driver. Considering the lo-fi nature of a leslie speaker and the KB300 also being lo-fi as compared to my EV I think that they are a better match, especially in the upper octave.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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For 2-b and 3-b (balanced choice for acoustic gig and small electic gig) I can recommend the Motion Sound KP200S because it gives you:

 

a) decent stereo sound

b) two stereo input channels with two inputs on each.

c) "click track" input - which can be used as a monitor feed.

 

What this means in practice for me is that I can have one piece that covers the functionality of 2 powered speakers, mixer and monitor. I know I could get better sound with current powered speakers, but the prospects of carrying more stuff and a longer setup time doesn't appeal to me.

 

Of course, the problem is that you can only get it used now. You can buy the big brother KP-500SN, which has more power but lacks the click track feature which I really like.

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

www.stickmanor.com

There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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I have never in my whole career played in a band where my personal amplification was the only amplification. Even playing in a Duo, we always ran through a PA and had personal monitors. So for me, whatever I use has to give me the whole mix.

 

.....

 

Same here. If I don't have proper sound reinforcement I'm probably in the wrong band. If I don't use in ears then I bring a pair of EV ZXA1s because I own them and they are paid for. I play through a Peavey KB300 at this monthly house thing I'm doing because I don't have to carry it. That KB300 sounds really good with the Hammond and Vent running through it. It must be the 15" and huge cab.

 

I've gotten old and opinionated and I don't have to play gigs that do not do things the way I think should be done and that includes production.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Too many categories. You don't necessarily get more useful info by breaking it into more parts.

 

I want to hear my keyboard in stereo it's more fun that way and I want to maximize my enjoyment of the sound so stereo is required for gigging no matter what the venue. That reduces the number of amplification choices.

 

Many on this forum use and like the Spacestation v3. I'd probably use that except that I already own a pair of QSC K8's which I really love. They have enough power and bass to compete with loud guitars. They're lighter than the Spacestation. The 8's have very wide dispersion so I angle them away from each other to cover the room and the stage so the other players can hear me. For FOH, they take direct off the board and I use the 8's as stereo monitors for me and the band.

 

For band rehearsal, I go mono in the studio PA. For practice at home, I may use headphones or a small practice amp or use a Casio board with built-in speakers.

These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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Personal monitoring in stereo I can take it or leave it. I want to hear what I am sending to the front desk. What I do want if I am using stage speakers is either Stereo or Dual Mono. I want 2 cabinets. Especially with these little plastic ABS powered speakers.

 

Two wedges on the floor will give you better bass response. Speakers on poles suck. (Unless you run a sub in addition to your pole speaker) They are OK if you have to do that for the audience but you lose the bottom end.

 

Just listen to a Leslie sometime that is up off the floor.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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In my studio, in addition to a pair of Amphion Two15s, I also have a small PA system (Yamaha 112 cabs, P2500s amp).

 

Downstairs by my acoustic piano, I also like to have an electronic keyboard or two, so I typically either have my pair of Line6 L2ts, or my Motion Sound KP200 with their KT-15 sub.

 

Live I've been using an SSv3 recently, but since my band always taps my mixer to send keys to the PA I've been thinking about trying IEMs instead. One less thing to carry and set up...and then I wouldn't need the VoiceSolo vocal monitor on my mic stand...

 

dB

 

 

 

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

Professional Affiliations: Royer LabsMusic Player Network

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I've tried assorted stuff from EV, QSC, Yamaha, Roland, JBL, RCF, CPS, MotionSound, Behringer, Peavey, Mackie, and maybe some I've forgotten. I haven't tried anything new that's come out in the last few years, though, except the SpaceStation 3. My test is piano, because if piano sounds good, everything else will sound good (with an organ caveat below).

 

My favorite is the JBL PRX625 (though I never had a chance to try the 635). I don't usually want to deal with its 50 lbs. But it sounds amazing (and a lot better than the 612M, or the 10-15" Eons I've used).

 

More practically, I'm a big fan of the ZXa1, 19 lbs for one or 38 lbs for a pair.

 

I often play with the Roland SA300 just because it's so darn convenient, though it clearly doesn't sound as good as the others. (Not bad, though.)

 

For organ, I like the single unit stereo systems that throw the sound outside the box... CPS in first place, then the Roland and MotionSound... but piano definitely suffers when you engage the stereo spread circuits on the Roland and MotionSound. CPS can be okay with piano with some attention paid to the EQ going in, and the settings on the box itself, so that's a good single box solution if you're okay with its 40+ pound travel weight, having to worry about placement, and having to deal with those extra tweaks (which I wasn't).

 

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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In the studio when I play my CP4 , it's almost exclusively used to accompany my vocals practicing. In that case I use phones - ATH-M50Xs and just got a pair of the Senn HD650s for Christmas.

 

Out live, most here know my preference in the RCF TT08As. Mated with my JMK Audio JM-110 Di/pre and the CP4 , there's not really much more I can hope for, sonically, in getting an electronic keyboard to emulate an acoustic piano.

 

If I win the lottery, definitely a pair of L' Acoustics 108Ps and Acoustic Fulcrum FA28ACs will be a first buy. Along with the Speck X.Sum mixer and Gordon Model 5 preamp.

 

Like Scott I've run the gamut of speakers and amps - none really doing it for me. When I was into it more a few years back auditioning MI type speakers, I too found the EV ZXA-1 to have the best piano tone for something light and inexpensive.

 

Would be curious to hear the Motion Sound KP500 , though I'm a stickler for tone and clarity. I hated the KP200 for piano though.

 

Stereo, Stereo and always Stereo for me whenever possible. :cool:

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709

 

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have a lot of options...

1. QSC GX3 and a pair of Acme B1's or old Electro voice SX100's.

2. Motion Sound KP-500s ( I use this a lot these days)

3. A single Eon G2 for Mono.

4. Roland KB 350 (mono/stereo mixing) haven't used my chainsaw on it yet.

5. Traynor K4 - I use it to develop synth patches w/it for my 80's gig because it's a 3 way system.

6. Behringer B1200D Sub (w/ can be used w/any of the above rigs)

7. An Old Motion Sound Pro-T3

8. Leslie 145 with Speakeasy PreAmp ( old Leslie silver wedge backup pre)

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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CPS can be okay with piano with some attention paid to the EQ going in and the settings on the box itself

Depends on the piano, I think.

 

I haven't had that much of a problem with it and my Kurz (PC3)...but I have a Nord Piano 3 here for review now, and it's acoustic pianos don't get along as well with the CPS. Other sounds - especially the ones with nice stereo spread and effects, of course - are fine, though. Was much happier when I plugged it into a stereo PA setup.

 

 

so that's a good single box solution if you're okay with its 40+ pound travel weight, having to worry about placement, and having to deal with those extra tweaks (which I wasn't).

Agreed about the placement thing. Our drummer had the SpaceStation's side speaker pointed at him during one gig - I'm on his right side, so it's challenging not to point the side speaker at him - and he simply hates the thing now. I have to check with him every gig to make sure it's not bugging him. :rolleyes:

 

It is also a bit odd having to decide if it's vertical or horizontal; and, if horizontal, whether to point the side speaker up or down, etc....but when it's placed right, it's great.

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

Professional Affiliations: Royer LabsMusic Player Network

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I have a Nord Piano 3 here for review now, and its acoustic pianos don't get along as well with the CPS.

 

That was my favorite DP at NAMM. I don't remember what amp they had set up, maybe I was using headphones. The piano player in me LOVED that board - the sound, the feel, the velocity response.

 

It has promise, so don't let a bad amp spoil the goods.

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I have a Nord Piano 3 here for review now, and its acoustic pianos don't get along as well with the CPS.

 

That was my favorite DP at NAMM. I don't remember what amp they had set up, maybe I was using headphones. The piano player in me LOVED that board - the sound, the feel, the velocity response.

 

It has promise, so don't let a bad amp spoil the goods.

Already changed it out. :thu:

 

I completely agree with you. Never been a huge Nord Piano fan...but boy, did they get this one right. Feel and connection to the sound engine are outstanding.

 

dB

 

 

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

Professional Affiliations: Royer LabsMusic Player Network

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I have a Nord Piano 3 here for review now, and its acoustic pianos don't get along as well with the CPS.

 

That's interesting Dave. During the month I owned my SS and was very unhappy with it for the CP4 - I hooked up with Alan Steinberger , who has posted here a few times. I went to one of his orchestra rehearsals at the theatre at the top of Forest Lawn. He had a weighted Electro and was using the Italian Grand. Could have been the expanse of the stage and room but I thought the amp and Nord were a much better match then with my Yamaha.

 

The not so detailed sound of the amp seemed to offset the somewhat clangy sound of the Nord piano. The Nord had a more pleasing tone then my Yamaha with that amp. Anyway that was my take , on that particular day, in that particular room ..fwiw. :)

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709

 

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X, CP88, P515

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Never been a huge Nord Piano fan...but boy, did they get this one right. Feel and connection to the sound engine are outstanding.

So the action is that much improved? I'll need to check one out!

 

One thing that bugged me about the NP2 is that you can't play piano from its own keybed while triggering its other sound externally (i.e. put it on its own MIDI channel). Sometimes it would be nice to have access to the Nord Sample Library from my "other" board while leaving the Nord's own keys dedicated to piano.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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How about those of us that have to swirl some air but also play other keys as well. Right now the choice seems to be leslie 21 system with the lower module used for the "keyboard amp" or some sort of dedicated leslie (like the 3300) and a separate keyboard amp such as a powered PA speaker. Any ideas out there? Hybrids?

 

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I owned a System 21 with 2 2121 cabinets. Sold the 2101, still have the 2121's. Need to sell them as I'm not using them and they take up space but I'm lazy sometimes. Great sounding system for organs, EP's and synths, as with most other speakers not so great with acoustic pianos. Big and heavy, but loud.

I own a Leslie Studio 12 that I run my Yamaha Reface YC (using a Yamaha KX 61 as a controller) through, rarely use the Hammond, always the combo organs. Same size as the 2121 cabinets, definitely needs castors. Don't know why H/S provides castors for the 2121's but not the Studio 12. Sit a tube guitar amp on top of that for the Wurlitzer and you are all set for your Animals tribute band. :thu:;)

:nopity:
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(1) Home situation: studio, living room or similar.

 

(5) Larger gig -- there's a decent PA and sound guy, all you need is your personal monitor if the band isn't using IEMs.

 

(1) Home practice is done either on an AP or with a cheap set of Sennheiser headphones.

 

(5) Not to say all gigs I do are large (they're not) but they all have FOH outsourced to sound guy with PA. Therefore the only amplification I need is on-stage monitoring and I use a single JBL EON 515XT. I never need all of its power on stage, but I occasionally use it for rehearsal when PA not available and it cuts through all the guitars nicely.

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I have a Nord Piano 3 here for review now, and its acoustic pianos don't get along as well with the CPS.

 

That's interesting Dave. During the month I owned my SS and was very unhappy with it for the CP4 - I hooked up with Alan Steinberger , who has posted here a few times. I went to one of his orchestra rehearsals at the theatre at the top of Forest Lawn. He had a weighted Electro and was using the Italian Grand. Could have been the expanse of the stage and room but I thought the amp and Nord were a much better match then with my Yamaha.

 

The not so detailed sound of the amp seemed to offset the somewhat clangy sound of the Nord piano. The Nord had a more pleasing tone then my Yamaha with that amp. Anyway that was my take , on that particular day, in that particular room ..fwiw. :)

Understood.

 

It was the Velvet grand that caught my attention - that, and the Mellow upright.

 

Listening to the Nord on my studio rig, I think I can hear why: the panning on the acoustic pianos as you play up and down the keybed moves around the stereo field in a manner that is unusual to me. Makes sense why it would be odd on the SS.

 

dB

 

 

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

Professional Affiliations: Royer LabsMusic Player Network

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1. Home/Basement Band Practice Space = Old beat up pair of Klipsch Heresy with similar vintage Marantz 100W poweramp.

 

2. Small-to-Mid or larger Live gigs = CPS SS3. Best darn keyboard amp I've ever seen. Position on floor aiming at me (either on its side, or tilted back). Run line out into passive DI box, send to PA. Done.

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Never been a huge Nord Piano fan...but boy, did they get this one right. Feel and connection to the sound engine are outstanding.

So the action is that much improved? I'll need to check one out!

I haven't A/B'd, but this one is an awful lot of fun to play - even when only using the synths.

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

Professional Affiliations: Royer LabsMusic Player Network

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I have a QSC K10 and a K8. I will use one or both depending on the situation. My bands rarely work with FOH systems, so I'm pretty much solely responsible for my own amplification. On the rare occasion we do work with a system, I use the K8 for a monitor.

 

Most of the time it's the K8 due to weight. One of the big bands rehearses upstairs from a bar, and i'm too lazy to haul the K10 up that flight of steps. For a bigger room or outdoors, I'll bring the K10.

 

Playing mostly with big bands, I'm very conscious of the volume. Saxophones, trumpets and trombones are no louder today than they were 50 years ago, so the piano shouldn't be either. I've said it here before, but fast in/fast out is a priority for me. It makes me giggle when I'm out the door faster than a horn player.

 

If the fusion band plays a gig of two or more sets, I'll bring both, as I like the overall presence the stereo sound provides.

 

This system works very well for me.

 

In the home studio, I have a pair of Gemini powered monitors. The company makes mostly DJ equipment. My friend who owns a music store got them for me at cost. They sound great for what I do. I can't complain given what I paid for them.

.

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In my studio, in addition to a pair of Amphion Two15s, I also have a small PA system (Yamaha 112 cabs, P2500s amp).

I do this specifically so I can turn on my keyboard rig at the back of the room to play for fun, evaluate an instrument, etc without having to turn on the audio rig at the front of the room...

 

...however... :evil:

 

....when I really wanna have fun with an instrument, I set it up in the center of the room directly facing the Amphions with the Yamahas on either side of me, but slightly behind me. They're wired so that the Yamaha behind my right and the Amphion in front of my right get the same side of the stereo field, and vice versa.

 

The sound that I get when I play in that position is breathtaking. The detail and imaging from the Amphions coupled with the raw, fat sound of the Yamaha PA is way too much fun, and I have headroom for days (500w a side on the Amphions, 400w a side on the Yamahas), so I've got killer dynamic range as well. :love:

 

Got the Nord Piano 3 in that spot at the moment. It likes being there a lot. :D

 

Does anyone else do anything like this?

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

Professional Affiliations: Royer LabsMusic Player Network

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