New VST host: Gig Performer

[johnchop]

Clonk

 

Another thing to evaluate alongside Cantabile, Forte, MainStage, etc.

 

14-day trial. I'm playing around with it. Priced a tad high IMO but nice features so far. Sort of a different way of working ... feels like bidule + main stage.

 

And cross-platform!

 

 

-John

 

Ps: Apologies if this is a repost, but I did Google first.

 

 

[hardware]

I'm interested in it so thanks.

I'm quite happy with Bidule.

Own Cantabile but just adds complications to my brain.

I'm just so used to Modular apps like Bidule and Scope DSP where you design the modules and run lean.

 

But on Z170 boards my ASIO drivers are seen then disappear.

Made me buy 2 x Z97 ASRock for spares just in case.

 

Cheerz

[zephonic]

@johnchop: thanks for the heads-up, this looks interesting.

 

I'm particularly interested in this claim:

 

LOW CPU USAGE

We've spent countless hours making sure that Gig Performer uses as few CPU cycles as possible.

 

Mainstage has a reputation for being a CPU hog, so anything that delivers similar or better functionality with lower overhead has my attention.

 

With startups like these my main concern is really about the longevity and future support.

[Markay]

More choice is a good thing. After reading the documenation and viewing the demo it is seems like it takes some minimal parts of the MainStage 'Workspace', combines this with a Bidule like back end organised into 'Racks' like Cantabile.

 

It also has a scripting language that is yet to be named. Sounds like it is still in beta mode.

 

I am always suspiscous of vendors that make claims like Gig Performer do on their website, for example:

'50 instances of Diva with Gig Performer uses only 2% CPU' or

'can run 17 times more instances of Diva than MainStage'.

 

For the record here is what U-He say about Diva

 

"Attention! DIVA is *extremely* demanding on CPU

Despite exploiting all conceivable opportunities to make Diva run as fast as possible, the level of analogue simulation we put into her simply requires extraordinary CPU power. Even if the multicore/multi-threaded option works fine on your system, please consider "freezing" tracks to lower the burden she puts on your CPU. After all she's a Diva, and Divas have DEMANDS!"

 

So all we have to do is add the Gig Performer magic sauce and you can run 50 instances with 2% CPU.

 

I think we will be waiting a long time for Gig Performer to put up a vid supporting these claims.

 

Interesting those more with a lot more experience in developing live hosts like Forte, Cantabile, Bidule or Apple have never made claims like these. Maybe they know better. But who knows, maybe there are enough gullible users out there who will part with their money without questioning the claims made.

 

[Reezekeys]

I am always suspiscous of vendors that make claims like Gig Performer do on their website, for example:

'50 instances of Diva with Gig Performer uses only 2% CPU' or

'can run 17 times more instances of Diva than MainStage'.

I believe the blurb says resting CPU. Let's see a video with 50 instances of Diva passing audio! Loading up 50 instances of any plugin and having them sit there unused doesn't prove much, IMO.

 

I'm another very happy camper with Bidule and with years invested in tweaking my setup I have no inclination to switch, however I wish nothing but the best for these devs and I may download the demo to see what's up. I'm particularly intrigued by the claims that seem to indicate a "patch remain" type functionality, where you can switch entire setups and not glitch the audio. Not that this can't be done with Bidule however it would take a lot more work, I think. Bidule's lower-level modules are geared for a wide range of midi and audio mangling, not just guys like me that go to a gig to play some r&b and jazz. And, its ability to convert midi (and audio) to control signals that you can do math on (including scaling, limiting & logic operations) let you get creative in ways that Gig Performer may not such as the Bidule group I designed to have a single button on my midi contoller send four separate controllers. However, Bidule is tough to use when you want to assign different threads to spread the CPU load over multiple cores I've found it difficult to adapt my setup to run on all the cores of my quad-core i7. If Gig Performer addresses this issue I may take a harder look.

[Markyboard]

After all she's a Diva, and Divas have DEMANDS!"

 

Waiting for the free lite version called Cheap Ho.

 

[hardware]

I plan on using the Ryzen CPU from AMD with Diva in 1U VSTi Synth DAW.

Can't let go of Zebra2 HZ either.

HZ sits on a single core so 4.0GHz is fine for dual Diva Filters.

I'll give these guys a shot and see what's up.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I haven't tried the app, but I know the developer. He's the keyboard player with The Security Project, they do a show of Peter Gabriel music with PG's (Security era) drummer Jerry Marotta and Trey Gunn. Good band. He's definitely coming at this from a musician's perspective, I know he uses the app in his own gigs.

 

[Throbert]

Now if it had a good configurable midi sequencer it would be all good.

[Gig Performer]

Hello there I am one of the co-founders of Gig Performer and I first want to thank this community for actually bringing up the Gig Performer usage in this community.

 

Id like to clear a few things up first We did not say that we can run 50 instances of any plugin and use 2% of CPU, let alone 50 instances of the great plugin Diva. Further, such a claim would mean nothing as soon as one moves from one computer to another.

 

One of our early users who tried Gig Performer discovered that he could easily load Diva into many rackspaces without impacting the CPU load. Presumably, not every audio hosts can do this. Obviously, we liked his testimonial, and published it along many other great feedback quotes from our users.

 

We do spend significant amount of time optimizing Gig Performer to make it as efficient as possible.

 

We are musicians ourselves and have tried all of the plugin hosts mentioned here. We know how critical it is to run efficiently and at the same time offer the features that one needs to perform on stage without having to have a degree in computer science.

 

I would invite you to actually download the Gig Performer and try it. Put it to the test in your own environment and see how it compares to others.

Open Gig Performer, add a Diva or two to a Rackspace and then actually open the Activity Monitor and see how much CPU is being used by Gig Performer while playing or not playing. Then open another host and do the same making sure you match the Divas settings. It has some nice CPU saving features like poly2 mode or use of multiple cores and number of voices used in polyphonic mode.

 

Some hosts will do great, others not so much. The time that a plugin takes to process a piece of audio does not depend on the host at all. It only depends on your computers power and your sample size/buffer settings. Host can influence the things before the audio gets into the plugin and after it leaves the plugin, but not while the plugin itself is processing a buffer. There are many other things happening while you are plying and using a host like Gig Performer though. These other things are what we control and we think we will do great in your test.

 

@Markay - We would NEVER try to trick someone into purchasing our product and we certainly do not think that any of our users are gullible. Aanyone can use the Gig Performer for two weeks, no strings attached and see if it is something they want or not. We have been writing software for a very long time. One of the co-founders of our company is a person who not only holds a PhD. In Computer Science, but is also a life-long musician and someone who worked with audio, MIDI and software for decades. We know that there is no magic or magic sauce for that matter.

 

I hope that this community will try Gig Performer and give us constructive feedback like the midi sequencer feature @Throbert suggested. We are developing and improving constantly so any and all feature requests are welcome!

 

Phew this turned out to be longer than intended . We are simply passionate about our product.

 

---------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com

[EscapeRocks]

welcome to the forum!

 

 

Thank you for your participating in this thread. I am always interested in new things, and I am going to do the two week trial just to see what it offers for me on my Macbook Pro.

 

 

[Gig Performer]

With startups like these my main concern is really about the longevity and future support.

 

I suppose that with that reasoning, no company would ever be able to put out a "first" product, would it?

 

[Gig Performer]

It also has a scripting language that is yet to be named. Sounds like it is still in beta mode.

 

Did not realize that naming a scripting language was the key to coming out of beta (face palm).

 

The reason we don't (at least not yet) highlight the scripting language is because we haven't quite decided where it fits from a user experience perspective. A key goal of Gig Performer was ease of use and efficient workflow for musicians who would prefer not to deal with "techie stuff" and our concern was that focusing on a scripting language might cause many musicians to feel they have to be technical to use the product.

 

Gig Performer was officially released last month so it is certainly not in beta mode, certainly not in the sense where we have a product and we're looking to just kill off any remaining bugs. However, our development model is such that we're very interested in releasing incremental updates with new or updated features often rather than making user wait for a year (say) to get an update. Feedback from users has and will continue to cause us to review our "what should come next" ordering.

 

They say that songs are never finished but merely abandoned. We have no plans to abandon Gig Performer so I suppose from that perspective its feature set will always be in beta!

 

[Gig Performer]

By the way, I noticed that somebody mentioned GP being a cross between Mainstage and Bidule. I haven't spent any time with Bidule recently but I do use Max (Cycling 74) intensively and in fact one of the (many) motivations driving GP was the desire to keep Max for MIDI processing but to not depend on it for audio. To that end, Gig Performer's OSC support is not only for the standard purpose of allowing remote control from apps like Lemur or TouchOSC but also to allow it to be "played" through OSC. So, for example, while any VST/AU plugin to which you give an OSC address (foo, for example) can respond to /foo/SetParam messages for changing parameters of that VST plugin in real time, our MIDI In plugins can respond to commands like (among others)

 

/foo/NoteOn number velocity channel

/foo/NoteOff number release channel

/foo/Midi byte byte byte

 

which will do the obvious things

 

 

and even

 

/foo/Note number velocity channel duration

 

which will immediately generate a NoteOn event and (duration milliseconds) later will generate a NoteOff event

 

 

I've found that the use of Max to essentially automate Gig Performer makes for a very powerful musical environment. If people are interested in this, I'm happy to upload the Max objects I use to communicate with GP for use by others.

 

I assume that Bidule also has OSC support so could provide similar capabilities.

[ElmerJFudd]

Welcome to the forum, devs of Gig Performer. Thank you for offering our community the ability to demo your software and being open to accept feedback. We're a critical bunch - very analytic about things - lol, what do you expect? Keyboard players. But very loyal and a great voice for sharing with each other when developers get something right. Good luck with your efforts!

[EscapeRocks]

Okay:

 

I've downloaded program and am using the free trial period to evaluate it. So far I think it's really cool.

 

I have been able to setup a couple "patches" without reading or viewing any of the help/tutorials.

 

Drawing out the connections is a feature I am liking. Obviously much different method than how I connect everything in Mainstage.

 

At this time I have two instances of Arturia Jup 8V, an instance of Kontakt The Grandeur, and an instance of Kontakt Factory Selection String ensemble.

 

Here's what it looks like so far.

As I delve deeper I'll run some CPU comparisons with Mainstage.

 

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/gig1_zpskuvsjyhc.png

 

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/gig2_zpsztqm8cv6.png

[mate stubb]

Nice clean UI.

[mte]

Definitely a thing to watch for!

However for now it's still a bit early and just like early versions of all software there are some things that still bother me personally:

- CPU usage is definitely great and MUCH better than MainStage. So if your plugins are CPU-intensive you will be fine. However many "rackspaces" of memory intense plugin duplicates (because i use the same sound over various key ranges/splits/layes in different songs), I soon get out of RAM. Not so with MainStage.

- Coming from the yamaha keyboards background and successfully implementing it in MainStage, I like the concept of doing some Patches and then connect those patches together with Combis (using those patches and defining splits and overlays between them). In MainStage I use only a handful of plugins/patches but use many many combinations of them with Aliases over various ranges/splits/layers. Variations in GP are nice and in some cases better than what MainStage offers, but generally quite limited.

- The Midi IN plugin in GP allows to define key range. However there is no way to filter or remap midi CC. I really need this.

- BUSES! What if I use a piano sound in many rackspaces and want to generally change volume of it on the fly. And maybe alter reverb settings because of different room acoustics in venues. I haven't found a way to do it yet in GP in one go...

- A few times I tried to quit GP with unsaved rack and it actually quit without asking me to save. Umm...

So yes while I will definitely keep a close eye on the development, in my use case scenario it just isn't there yet....

Thanks,

Matej

[Markay]

Hi Nebojsa,

 

Id like to clear a few things up first We did not say that we can run 50 instances of any plugin and use 2% of CPU, let alone 50 instances of the great plugin Diva.

You chose to publish this testimonial and the 17X MainStage quote on the front page of your web site. You cannot escape responsibility for the accuracy of objective performance claims you choose to publish and invite potential purchasers to rely on when they buy the product.

 

"Further, such a claim would mean nothing as soon as one moves from one computer to another"..... "The time that a plugin takes to process a piece of audio does not depend on the host at all."

I agree. So why publish these quotes when you acknowledge they are meaningless?, particularly when

 

One of the co-founders of our company is a person who not only holds a PhD. In Computer Science....

at least one person at Gig Performer well understands the rigour involved in researching, writing and having a thesis peer reviewed. Similar standards are applied here to consumer legislation regarding truth in advertising and claims for product performance. I would be surprised if the USA were any different.

 

As a new entrant credibility has to be earned. Your attempts to make Gig Performer resource efficient are to be applauded. Selecting one of most resource hungry VI's as an example in the quotes you have published is going to attract at least a few sceptics which is seems counter productive.

 

If you are going to make a feature of it and name other products that compare poorly in a comparison then evidence should be provided for those considering purchase. And I guess also so the other named product developer can confirm the claims in the event they wish to see if your claims hold up under independent testing.

 

I wish you well with your product and figure the above is down to the enthusiasm you and your co-developers have for your product. I will be holding off further evaluation until some of the claims made are quantified.

 

Regards

 

Mark

 

[Gig Performer]

Hello Matej,

 

- CPU usage is definitely great and MUCH better than MainStage. So if your plugins are CPU-intensive you will be fine. However many "rackspaces" of memory intense plugin duplicates (because i use the same sound over various key ranges/splits/layes in different songs), I soon get out of RAM. Not so with MainStage.

 

Not sure how to exactly respond to running out of memory. You can use variations to control any plugin parameter, bypass a plugin altogether etc... so you most likely do not have to duplicate it all the time. I would be interested to hear which memory intense plugin are you using and how many instances of it did you have to create to run out of ram.

 

Another option is to use "INSTANCES" in Gig Performer. This is a new kind of concept where you can create named instances and use them in parallel.

 

If you have a piano sound that you always use for example and want to have it available any time on one particular keyboard you connected in - you can create a new instance called "piano" for example and put piano only stuff in there. You can control anything regarding that piano completely separately from the rest of your setup.

 

Some of our users use this option to actually separate two keyboards into two instances of Gig Performer and then have separate control over each keyboard. Some users use it for additional band member. We've seen a guitarist and bass players using it this way - each had an instance open and each is completely separate.

 

You have to enable the support for instances in the main options before you can use it.

 

The Midi IN plugin in GP allows to define key range. However there is no way to filter or remap midi CC. I really need this.

As far as filtering CC messages goes - yes ... we will be adding that shortly. Thanks!

 

A few times I tried to quit GP with unsaved rack and it actually quit without asking me to save. Umm...

We are aware of this bug. We will be fixing it... There's no such thing as a bug free application

 

Thank you for trying GP and giving us this feedback - it helps us a lot!

[Gig Performer]

@Markay,

 

You chose to publish this testimonial and the 17X MainStage quote ...

I completely missed that quote. I thought we were talking about the quote from a user that loaded 50 instances into separate rackspaces and was impressed how low the CPU was at rest. His testimonial is accurate, but I do agree that the one from "Tom B." about 17x instances is misleading. It sounds like he played 17 instances of Diva within the same rackspace. That's unlikely (unless he has a CPU with 17 cores )

 

I took that testimonial down and it is no longer on our website.

 

Regardless of your decision to try Gig Performer or not - I would like to thank you for bringing it to our attention. Last thing we want is to "deceive" a user. We want to be honest and up-front about everything we can or cannot do.

 

------------------------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com

 

[Gig Performer]

@EscapeRocks

 

Thanks for trying it. I hope you'll find the front widget system as simple and as intuitive to use as well.

 

As I delve deeper I'll run some CPU comparisons with Mainstage.

Waiting for your CPU comparison results

 

------------------------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com

[burningbusch]

Tried to download the demo on Windows 10. Get a message that the signature is corrupt or invalid.

 

Busch.

[EscapeRocks]

@EscapeRocks

 

Thanks for trying it. I hope you'll find the front widget system as simple and as intuitive to use as well.

 

As I delve deeper I'll run some CPU comparisons with Mainstage.

Waiting for your CPU comparison results

 

------------------------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com

 

 

Here's a screen shot of the "performer view" for rack space 1.

 

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/gp2_zps7nbcrwes.png

 

 

 

[Markay]

We want to be honest and up-front about everything we can or cannot do.

------------------------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com

 

Hi Nebojsa, thought that was the case and credit to you for prompt action. On a positive note and FWIW here are some suggestions you may like to consider.

 

By way of background I chose to use live hosts, VI's and plugs as an alternative to buying a Kronos or Nord Stage, for example.

 

I started out as a complete newbie but with quite a bit of software and hardware expertise. Once I had learned how to get my Win 7 Live Host running reliably and acquired VI's I then decided that yes, this was viable, and time to get a new high end laptop dedicated to Live use.

 

At that time I also looked at MainStage and decided that I preferred the MS GUI, being able to visually confirm the splits for any active patch, and that actions on my controller were reflected on screen was a feature unique to MainStage and one that I value.

 

So I switched to OSX and MainStage and have been a happy camper ever since. However I understand that running the MS GUI in Performance mode takes more CPU cycles and system resources than a stripped down alternative.

 

Accepting that, and also that some VI's are so resource demanding that they are not suited to for use in splits or layers, I doubt that a 3% or 5% savings in system resource would make any meaningful difference where a resource issue arises.

 

Others may see the saving as meaningful but when you take into account MS is $29 and comes with all the Logic plugs and GB content for another $6 it is much harder for a 3rd party vendor to compete on OSX than on Windows.

 

The USP is see in Gig Performer is on Windows where GP brings the graphic ability to map selected on screen controls and have graphic displayed while performing. This is a first for Windows Live Hosts and would reason enough for me, if I were to return to Windows, to buy GP.

 

Taking this one step further, and returning to the Nord Stage analogy, it may be worthwhile setting up some "templates" for say VB3, which is popular here, some AP's, EP's and synths VI's, which, provided the user has the VST on their machine, could be easily mapped and then changed if required to each user's requirement.

 

Here on this forum there are a wide range of IT experts who could probably between them solve any problem known to mankind, but based on feedback here and elsewhere most who wish to use Live Hosts live are not IT experts and being able to get up and running easily for the basic needs could be a real bonus, and reason to select GP over the alternatives.

 

Similarly demoing some simple setups of organ, AP and EP splits and layers would provide GP with an edge over the Windows competition which, to me at least, seem to be more technically focused on the "why" rather than the "how".

 

A second USP is GP's ability to run on a Surface tablet or similar, for those prefer that format, and that it has been developed to be touch screen friendly.

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

That's not to say there isn't value in maintaining the app across Mac and Windows - in that anyone working with GP would be able to use either (assuming it's possible to load setups made on one OS to another if the same plugins are present). But this would be a need for a pretty small % of your users.

 

 

[Markay]

That's not to say there isn't value in maintaining the app across Mac and Windows

Which is why I didn't suggest dropping support for Mac OS.

 

There will always be a market on Mac OS amongst those prefer not to use Bidule or MainStage.

 

On Windows 10 you are not competing with the OS vendor, you build it and it runs on desktop, laptop, tablet or phone.

[Gig Performer]

@EscapeRocks

 

That looks gorgeous! I hope it runs great for you as well.

 

------------------------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com

[Gig Performer]

@Markay

 

I doubt that a 3% or 5% savings in system resource would make any meaningful difference where a resource issue arises.

If those numbers were accurate - I would agree with you. It seems however, that you did not really try GP and compared with other products as far as resources go. If you used your Activity Monitor to actually see the CPU usage difference in any mode (performance or not) you would see a much bigger difference.

 

We hope that we are bringing something new to the table. Among other things:

- Multi-instance support. With GP you can have other band members have their own instance that is completely separate. As a single player - you can have one instance per keyborad for example and control each one individually if you'd like ...

- OSC support which is becoming increasingly relevant for live use.

 

...and other features, but the point is not to simply list features. The entire system needs to be powerful, but lean, look simple, but offer a lot of flexibility and finally - it must be rock solid while performing.

 

If you ask a Logic Pro, Pro Tools and Ableton Live user which one of those three is the best. What do you think the answer would be? Regardless of the fact that Logic Pro is much less expensive than its competition.

 

I fully understand that you are happy with your current setup and that you do not need anything new. What would be an alternative if you weren't?

We never hoped to replace every live plugin host in the world. We simply think that we have a great application for live and session musicians and offer unique features and benefits that will appeal to many.

 

We continue to improve the product and add features. We listen to our users and implement requested features, improve the ones that need improving.

 

 

------------------------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com

 

[Gig Performer]

@ElmerJFudd

 

That's not to say there isn't value in maintaining the app across Mac and Windows - in that anyone working with GP would be able to use either (assuming it's possible to load setups made on one OS to another of the same plugins are present).

Yes - this is possible and we go a bit further with portability...

 

We automatically deal with a fact that a plugin is missing without changing your audio/midi flow and allow you to quickly replace it if you wish to do so. If not - you can modify your gig file, save it and later open it on another computer that does have that plugin and everything will work again.

 

If you change your audio device and all of a sudden you don't have the same I/O channels that you do in your normal setup - we deal with that too - automatically. We create virtual channels and allow you to modify your gig in any way.

 

These features btw. came as a result of our own experience while being on tour - performing. You sometimes want to change your gig file a little based on your experience from last night, but you are in a hotel room and don't have all your audio interfaces with you.

 

I don't think you will find that we are talking much about these features. I don't even know if we have those listed on our features and benefits page.

If you never run into these situations - you will never see nor need to know about it. If you do however, you'll be glad that GP handles it exceptionally well.

 

 

------------------------------------

Nebojsa Djogo

Co-founder, Deskew Technologies, LLC

www.gigperformer.com