OT...Have you ever considered just giving it all up?

[Kendrix]

Lots of good posts in here.

I agree 28 is young and I agree with Jeebus- Greenshoes perspective is agood one to have.

 

However, its also really clear that there is no right answer that fits everyone.

Ying-yang definately applies in that there are plusses and minuses to each path.

Each individual has to make the tradeoff for themselves.-

There aint nothing thats perfect IMHO.

 

Another observation, I ve done well in the corporate world. Im making over 10X what I started at 25 years ago. But you know what, it really doesnt feel as if my daily life is very much different for it. Happiness really doesnt come from money.

 

Its all relative- and its always the case that you may be inclined to strive for more and to feel unsatisfied - or not.

 

Once you are above the level of obtaining food an shelter and other basic needs its been statistically proven by psychologists that happiness does not correlate with wealth at all.

So- please send me all your extra cash.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Rog:

One person's security is another's straitjacket.

Very true. Also, Rog, your bit about no matter what you find yourself in, it will seem dull and routine after a time. A lot of it is that ol' "the other man's grass is always greener" bit. Ultimately, we're all cursed to arrive on our death beds wondering "what might have been". As for me, I've no regrets about raising wonderful kids. But the kids are almost all grown, and I find myself thinking "time to start living for me". I dunno. We'll see.

[T.H.]

This thread comes at a good time as I've been going through the MID-LIFE CRISIS.

 

I've been depressed lately, I saw 8 strands of gray hair on my beard (damn) anyway....

 

I'm an artist/producer, been doing it for 12 years and I am damn good at it, had a few hits, lost a deal, came back again with some production, deal fell threw, made my own CD, sold some units 38,000, made some money, some people mis-handled the money, now I have to work

but I'm not one to stop, my 2nd CD is rearing to go for MARCH release, but....

 

I'm tired, tired of the B.S., the stress of the back and forth to the daycare to pick up my son, tired of the creditors calling for money, the lacking of my better half. It seems I must do all and more if things are to go right.

 

I've been thinking on giving it up, the studio, the writing everything and just become a civilian in the everyday PACE of life, cause all that I've tried and done seems to fall short of success.

 

My only savior is when people hear my music and tell me "HOW COME YOU HAVENT MADE IT YET", "HOW COME YOU NOT OUT THERE", "DAMN, THIS IS GOOD, CAN I GET A COPY"

 

I even teach other friends how to set their gear up (TECH SUPPORT) sort a speak, I can put computers together, write a song with substinance in a heartbeat cause MUSIC is in my SOUL as well as my BLOOD, but it's a BUSINESS right guys, the ART doesnt matter any more.

 

(sigh) I dont know

[T.H.]

(forgot to add this)

 

I'm 35

married 5 years

a wonderful beautiful son, 3 years old

enough money to live, but not lavish

enough friends to have a life.

[Lee Flier]

Well, I've always stayed as far away from the rat race as possible, even when I was in it. I was only in it for a few years, mainly so I could buy a house and build my studio. Both the house and studio are deliberately very modest - I paid cash for all my gear and my mortgage payments are very small compared to most people's. Once that was done, the only important thing to me is time... time for music, time to spend with friends (and hopefully a husband some day!), time for helping others, time to just space out and post on forums if I feel like it. There is nothing, NOTHING worth giving that up for IMO. And if you really, really are determined that you don't need to be part of the rat race, you can figure out a way not to be. It isn't easy and it can be scary, but I feel much more alive and feel I'm doing so much more good in so many ways than I was when I had "security."

 

So... I say if you need a change, go for it. It's not like the rat race won't be waiting for you if it doesn't work out.

 

Note to Super 8: I'm glad you're doing better... and PLEASE don't beat yourself up about not being the "provider." I've seen that just destroy a few guys, and for no good reason. Being a loving husband and parent is worth more than any amount of money can buy, and some people (who just might happen to be male) are just better suited to that job than any other. I really do think that the modern two-income family, with nobody who stays home with the kids, just plain sucks. I hope your wife appreciates what you're doing, too... there are women who think guys are worthless if they're not earning money, and that's really sad. It sounds from the way you describe it like most of those feelings are coming from you, though. Hang in there and try to embrace what you have, cuz it sounds cool to me!

[Archer]

I think the thing that keeps me in the rat race is comparing myself to those around me and believing that I need what they have to be happy.

 

I'm 37, still single with a modest income and everyone around me is married and makes several times what I do, but you know what? The more I learn to NOT compare myself to them the more I realize that I can be happier with less. I don't need fancy cars or a 3000 square foot house. I've been watching them real close and a lot of them are miserable people. No matter how much they have it still isn't enough.

 

I'm still learning and I need to remind myself not to compare myself to others on a regular basis. As Inspector Clusoue (sp) said, "Every day in every way we get a little bit better."

[Lee Flier]

Ah yes, the "keeping up with the Joneses" syndrome. If you can keep from falling into that trap, you've got it made. You're right, a lot of those people with the huge houses and fancy cars (and usually a mountain of debt to match) are miserable, and in fact THEY only did it because they thought it was what you're "supposed" to do. IMO, you have to give up way too much of yourself to get way too little, when you go after those things. It's too bad that it's too late before most people learn that. You're lucky, Archer.

[Rim]

"The grass is always greener on the other side"

 

Maybe we should all look at our lives from someone else's point of view and see how green the grass is under our own feet!

 

I've been thinking about this myself and I'm consciously keeping from taking what I have for granted. Someone once told me "You'll never be lonely since you have music". I do feel lonely at times, but nowhere near as much if I didn't have music. Really, it's good to have a passion - not all folks do.

 

But, as been said before, there's good and bad in everything. I think the key is to be able to look at each side accurately and see if the goods are worth the bads for you.

 

Hey Ted, You've earned "me" time. Just do it.

[antimatter]

Originally posted by Compact Diss:

I chose an industry as a profession that sucks. I went to college for it, spent 5 years doing it and now I can't find a job. I'm talking about Biotechnology. I am not the only one in MA affected by it either, most of my friends have been laid off and are either pursuing other fields or waiting for the call for an interview.

 

FYI thought you might want to keep an eye on this place. Could get good funding for years to come...

http://www.cfn.bnl.gov/

[baileyrecords]

Music? Heck no! It's just starting to get good! The "business" and the "games" we play? In a heartbeat!

 

- Stratos

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Rim.:

"The grass is always greener on the other side"

 

Maybe we should all look at our lives from someone else's point of view and see how green the grass is under our own feet!

 

Natch. It's all a question of perspective...except that they might be thinking you have it made because of "X" and you might be thinking they have it made because of "Y". But, as Lee and others have mentioned, money is (or can be) a poor motivator, especially when you have to sell your soul for it.

 

Let's make a list.

 

Rate the following in terms of importance:

 

Financial security

Health

Financial bounty (being well-off rather than just secure)

Family (being surrounded by spouse, kids, etc.)

True love (the kind that makes you completely high)

Material goodies/toys

Spiritual happiness

Time (free time to devote to interests)

Artistic pursuits

Career (can be independent of financial security)

[kylen]

I'm giving it up but I didn't ask to...hehe wakeup call provided by the current outsourcing paridgm - I didn't get that one in engineering school !

 

Thinking 'outside the job' - however ya get there

[Greenshoe]

Great thread btw. Seems so coincidental that this thread shows up just as I am about to make the leap.

 

My list in order:

 

Health - it's my lifeline. if it gets taken away from you, it's the only thing that matters.

Family

True love

Time with the right frame of mind = freedom

Artistic pursuits

Spiritual happiness - not sure what this means exactly. If what you mean is inner peace, then yeah it should be near the top.

Career

Financial security

Financial bounty

Material goodies/toys

 

Though financial security, bounty, material goods are at the bottom of my list, they're not unimportant to me. They're just not as important as the other things. My priorities are clear, but living according to those priorities is an entirely different bag of beans or challenges. Oh yeah, I know that 28 is young heh heh in the grand scheme of things.

 

One thing I'm finding is that to commit to making a leap or potentially life-altering decision cannot be done by rationalizing or philosophizing. While I haven't made a decision this drastic, I've done it on a smaller scale before - in early '97 a year out of college, I quit a job and moved to Hong Kong with nothing but a suitcase, a girl's phone number (he he) and a vague idea about working there. I ended up spending 3 years working in Asia. I was scared back then to make that leap, but I learned that your mind is focused on everyday practical stuff and less on navel gazing. Back then, it was running errands like booking plane tickets, getting out of my lease, cancelling utilities, cable, phone, signing resignation letters, getting my money situation in order, etc. etc. Right now, I'm listing the errands I needs to run to make the leap. i.e. to sell or keep?, give back car or keep it, how to move my stuff from one city to another, changing phone numbers, finding ultra-cheap warehouse space, sign up for ASCAP or SOCAN, list of odd consulting/teaching jobs I could do, etc. etc. and basically what my immediate daily world is gonna be like for the next few months. I'm finding out the more I list these things out, and actually start to do them, it's less scary because it is no longer some intellectual thought in your head. The 'dream' in the very short-term becomes a boring list of errands and to-do's - which is a good thing because it's concrete and gives an odd sense of comfort since I can see the reality of it.

[kylen]

hehe Who you calling a Grand Scheme

Good Luck Greenshoe !

 

Take a little, give a little - I guess George Harrison said "Take a piece but not too much !" I like that little ole thing (tyin to get a Tennessean accent here so I'll fit in better - )

[Greenshoe]

Good luck with you as well kylen.

 

Don't let the outsourcing lemmings get to ya.

[kylen]

Don't let the outsourcing lemmings get to ya.

So True

[Philip OKeefe]

Originally posted by Tedster:

 

Let's make a list.

 

Rate the following in terms of importance:

Boy, this is going to be hard for me. I'm a big believer in balance... it's hard to say which is MOST important... physical health would have to rate very high - money's not going to do you much good if you're dying... but then again, money can help you take better care of yourself - medical insurance, better food, etc. And Spiritual happiness would have to rate high, but that is also a bit interdependent on other things too - if you have a bad family relationship it's hard to feel completely spiritually satisfied... so I guess this is a disclaimer - I can't really rate these accurately... but here's my shot at it:

 

Spiritual happiness

True love (the kind that makes you completely high)

Family (being surrounded by spouse, kids, etc.)

Artistic pursuits

Career (can be independent of financial security)

Health

Financial security

Time (free time to devote to interests)

Financial bounty (being well-off rather than just secure)

Material goodies/toys

 

Super 8, I can relate to a lot of what you've been feeling. Hang in there buddy!

[KenElevenShadows]

I don't want to necessarily stop working, just working like a donkey for stuff that's not as important. I sometimes think about going and purchasing a house for cash on the shores of one of the islands in south Thailand and living the good life. It may be possible soon to do this, but I don't know if it would ever happen. I certainly think about it, though. If this is considered a midlife crisis, then I've been thinking these thoughts since in my early 20s. I doubt that's it, since I'm still relatively young anyway. I'm happy with a lot of stuff, but get tired of living such a fast-paced life and would like to slow it down a bit so I can do stuff that I really enjoy doing more often. I prefer to think of it as FOCUS.

[Tedster]

Yeah, Greenshoe...my list is ordered a lot like yours. Phil, in a way, yours too...mine is like a hybrid. By "Spiritual Happiness" I mean whatever you think of that gives you inner peace...it may be a relationship with God, it may be some form of meditation, something that calms you to the core. Yeah, it needs to be near the top. Health is probably at or very near the top of my list, because once that's gone, you have nothing.

 

Lessee:

 

Health

Spiritual Peace

Family

True Love

Artistic pursuits

Time

Financial security

Career

Material goodies

Financial bounty

 

Yeah, some of these are close. Perhaps a three or four-way tie for first. Material goodies are nice, but don't give you warm fuzzies.

 

How about I add "acceptance" to that list...how you're perceived by your peers. No matter how much we all say we don't care about it, we (most of us) continually do stuff that says we do care what others think about us. Would we drop it all and live the life of Reilly if we didn't care about what our peers thought? Even a little bit? (knitted brow, thumb and forefinger stroking goatee...)

[techristian]

Yeah, if I won powerball and could control my wife's spending habits.

 

Actually, last month I qualified to retire from TPC, but am not sure I can do it.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I'll have my 30 years in 7 months and a good pension to boot, but with our spending habits, 1 daughter in 1st year university and another that will be there in a few years I don't know. I'm only 48.

 

Perhaps this new CD will open some doors. Maybe not? We will see.

 

Dan

 

http://teachmedrums.com

[pseudonym]

I just got thru trying to find statistics on commercially released cd's last year and couldn't find anything about it, other than that CD sales are down. A few years back I read somewhere that about 72,000 CD's where commercially released just in that year. Sorry, I haven't the exact figures, but this year probably won't be much different than the last few.

 

Anyway, my point is, if you want to make a living doing you're own music, you have a-l-o-t- -o-f competition!! Don't give-up on Med School yet!! Get that engineers degree, my younger brother is making 100g's a year as an engineer, that buy's a-lot of guitars and pro-tools, as a matter of fact, he spends it all on fishing equipment, it's just as ridiculous as music equipment!!!

 

Don't worry be happy, soon you'll all be dead anyway!! HA-HA-HA, that was a j-o-k-e

[Tedster]

Originally posted by pseudonym:

Anyway, my point is, if you want to make a living doing you're own music, you have a-l-o-t- -o-f competition!! Don't give-up on Med School yet!! Get that engineers degree, my younger brother is making 100g's a year as an engineer, that buy's a-lot of guitars and pro-tools, as a matter of fact, he spends it all on fishing equipment, it's just as ridiculous as music equipment!!!

 

I 100 percent agree with you about getting the degree. Although, the purpose of this post was never "Should I not do anything but pursue music as my sole means of support-because I'm gonna be a star". Never, never was that my intent, and I fear my intent is being misread. This really doesn't have anything directly (or necessarily indirectly) related to music.

 

My purpose is more "does living in the rat race suck the life out of you?"...or, where in your list of priorities does being in the rat race fall? I would even recommend that everyone who even looks at this thread forget for a moment that they have anything even remotely to do with music.

 

To put forth another way of looking at it, a powerful emotion we can all relate to, if you were, say, "madly" in love with someone who lived in another city, they had a good job and couldn't leave, you had a good job and couldn't leave, where in your priorities would that put you? Would you leave your career to pursue that? Now, that "true love" could in fact be music, but I don't want you to limit it to that. The "true love" could even be selling ice cream on the corner for a few bucks a day rather than designing computers for six figures.

 

It's a question about priorities in the grand scheme of things, and what makes you happy, not necessarily only about music.

[pseudonym]

Tedster, you're way to serious

[deanmass]

Lee Flier is my hero..(sigh)

 

DAILY I think about PUNTING or like Billy Crystal doing a ' do over' and taking up furnace work. People always wanna stay warm, right? ( In MICH anyhow...)

 

but, like anything/one else, I stay on the wheel and chase the cheese. When things are busy, I push it through and make the bread. When they are not, I worry. Things are very busy now. Tons of music stuff, very little time to play. Furnace work is looking good, but computer stuff pays the bills and then some....More cheese please....

[Tedster]

Originally posted by pseudonym:

Tedster, you're way to serious

Nawww...just on "thoughtful" mode. You are right about not giving up on the college degree. Whichever way the wind takes you, if I was to give it all up tomorrow and head for the Keys, for example, if things didn't work out the way I planned, I'd be glad I had that diploma to fall back on.

[pseudonym]

Tedster, you should have seen the cops in downtown Austin tonight for the beginning of Mardi Gras, at least 5,000 - now thats serious dude!

 

I haven't a degree myself, but I'm a licensed tradesman, it's just a way to survive without joining the sheep army of "normal" civilization. There is freedom if you need it! Most people wouldn't know it if they tripped over it at high noon on a Saturday afternoon! Peace...........................

[kylen]

...downtown Austin tonight for the beginning of Mardi Gras

Oooo fun

Say hi to the Black Cat and Alice's, hehe - if they're still there...

[pseudonym]

The Black Cat was lost to fire, and it's still sitting there a mass of blackened ruin with one of those constuction walkways out in front, they always played to loud anyway, I think I lost my hearing there for at least a few days every time I went - , or maybe it was the hang-over

[Tedster]

Originally posted by pseudonym:

Tedster, you should have seen the cops in downtown Austin tonight for the beginning of Mardi Gras, at least 5,000 - now thats serious dude!

 

I haven't a degree myself, but I'm a licensed tradesman, it's just a way to survive without joining the sheep army of "normal" civilization. There is freedom if you need it! Most people wouldn't know it if they tripped over it at high noon on a Saturday afternoon! Peace...........................

Yeah, they're gettin' ready...WOO HOO!!

 

Well, being skilled at a trade is every bit as valuable as having a degree. The point is, people with degrees or journeyman's cards both have a viable means of supporting themselves and contributing to the good of society. Well, most people with degrees, except for perhaps lawyers .

 

But, unskilled labor, despite being necessary, is a risky and expendable way of trying to make a living IMO. It's fine that some people choose that, but, I've done that, too, and you're really at the bottom of the pile. Always better to have a backup.

[thisDude]

The winner of the rat race is the one best at being a rat.

 

I think Dateline did a study a few years back about beggers. They dressed their producers up like bums, sat them on a busy corner, and they were averaging about $7 an hour. Venice Beach performers must be making a livable wage (L.A. ain't cheap). I'd imagine with a guitar in the Keys, you could pull $10-$12 an hour from parrot-heads on vacation. Could get a little tricky come tax time.