Ideas for complement to Kronos 88

[Redknife]

I am thinking about replacing my current second keyboard (PC2x) with a new board and I could use some advice.

 

The PC2x served me well, but I don't experience much incremental benefit in the shadow of the Kronos. I planned to use the PC2x primarily as a Mainstage VST/AU controller but I'm just not feeling it.

 

Here is more info to narrow things down.

I'm looking for:

 

- Light weight and non-maximal dimensions- Doesn't have to be tiny but I'd like something that's easier to cart around for simple gigs. For bigger gigs, having two 88-key 50+# boards is just a grunt. I have the vehicle space, just not always the desire or ability to move the big boys.

 

- Sound emphasis: EP's, Organs, Clavs, Piano (piano not as critical since I have the Kronos 88 but I still care and am primarily a pianist when push comes to shove). The Kronos organs are pretty good, IMO but I'd like better and easier. I am not a great organ player compared to some of you but I want to be better. Since I'd like to use this lighter board solo for some functions, it would be good to have serviceable basic sounds like the ones listed. I can be pretty picky about these basic sounds but can also look past deficiencies once its "go-time". In addition, sounds that complement rather than duplicate the Kronos would be good.

 

- Probably non-weighted action. I say probably because some weighted actions feel like non-weighted to me. An action better for organs would be good. 61 key may be too small for me psychologically. I hated 61 keys in the past. 73/76 is better but I'm not set. Essentially I have to resist buying an 88 key board.

 

- Immediacy and performance oriented. For this board I don't want a steep learning curve or load times. Turn it on and play is the goal. I don't want to fumble through menus. I have the Kronos or Mac for complicated. I am already a bit weighed down with the depth of the VST/AU's and Kronos so ideally I won't add to that "time-suck".

 

- Style - Rock, jazz, jam, funk, blues. I don't mind EDM, I just don't do it. I can handle cover band synth sounds with the Kronos.

 

- Budget fortunately not an issue within the cast of usual characters. Less is appreciated but not the determining factor.

 

I don't have many options to try out these boards. I agree that trying is the best, but trying is probably not in the cards. If I can narrow it down, maybe I can locate a dealer for a particular board.

 

So far I'm thinking about the Electro 5D 73 with waterfall action. This whole electro vs stage option confuses me a bit. For perspective, I like the sounds in the Kurzweil Forte but it just doesn't fit the bill in the size and action criteria. I'm not sure that the other Kurzweil options have a good enough organ sound to justify the addition. I don't know much about the Hammond products i.e. non-organ sounds or other issues. I also haven't played any of the Roland boards for quite some time. I thought about a different controller driving Mainstage but the immediacy and simplicity isn't there for me.

 

Guidance? Thanks

[bennyray]

The Nord Electro 5 will be available next week at Proaudiostar in NY at least thats what my associate told me today. Pricy, so i would take a look at the Nord Electro 4 or the Hammond SK1 both are very easy to navigate around on and have great organ sounds. Great addition to Kronos.

[AnotherScott]

As stated, the Nord Electro or Hammond SK1 would probably be the most likely candidates.

 

This whole electro vs stage option confuses me a bit.

 

Short (and incomplete) version:

 

Electro 4 = one sound at a time (no splits/layers)

Electro 5 = two sounds at a time

Stage 2 = more than two sounds at a time

 

Stage 2 also adds a full synth section, aftertouch, pitch/mod controls, plus integration of external sounds via MIDI

 

I like the sounds in the Kurzweil Forte but it just doesn't fit the bill in the size and action criteria. I'm not sure that the other Kurzweil options have a good enough organ sound to justify the addition.

That's a good question... I don't know if the Artis7 has the latest KB3 organ enhancements of the Forte.

[midinut]

I just added a MOXF6 to go above my Kronos 88. I like the way they compliment one another, and if I need to pull off a small gig, rehearsal, jam or audition, the MOXF6 is only 15 pounds. Just my opinion. Works for me!

[CEB]

Based on the sound emphasis the Hammond SK1-73. Maybe a Stage 2 compact if the synth section section would be sonething you would get into.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Another +1 for the SK1-73. Mine works very well with the PC361 for two boards (or with the PC3X, but that is big enough and heavy enough I don't usually carry it out).

I did have an Electro 3-73 for a year or so, but sold it. I like the organ & Leslie emulation better on the SK1.

[Redknife]

Cool. So , I don't know how to do these multiple quotes, but:

bennyray - I must admit I didn't realize that the Nord 5D wasn't widely available yet. Looking for a deal on the Electro 4 might be a viable option.

AnotherScott - thx for the thoughts and clarification on the Nord versions; that helped. I'll have to watch for mission drift and will probably stay from the Stage 2.

midinut - will see if the MOX6 is available to audition. I can see how the sounds would complement the Kronos. Not sure the organ would make it.

CEB and MoodyBluesKeys - yeah, now that I'm directed to check out the Hammond SK-1 it looks like it might be the frontrunner for me.

 

Turns out that there is a Hammond dealer with an SK1 (88) in stock so shockingly I can actually try it and maybe support a local.

 

Its funny that when I went to the Hammond site, their pro quote is from Eliot Lewis of Live from Daryl's House (LFDH). I've been binge watching LFDH and seeing mostly red and a yamaha electronic piano. Guess he's switched.

 

 

Does the SK1 work in a rudimentary way as a controller? (not my primary criteria, just wondering)

[DanL]

The Hammond has external zones that you can program, so yes, it can be used as a controller. I have mine sending program changes to my Moog or Ultranova depending on the setup.

[midinut]

Redknife, I agree about the stock organs on the MOXF not cutting it. I use two options that make it better. A. I usually have my laptop hooked up to the MOXF6 and use VB3 for organs. B. If I don't want to drag the laptop out, I downloaded B's Knees from the motifator shop for $35 U.S. and it helps make the organs usable. No samples involved. It just uses he built-in waveforms. Dave did a great job making the best out of a not-so-great situation imho.

 

Can't speak for the Hammond Sk series. Other than I'd love to have one. Haven't gotten my hands on one. No one around here carries them (or Kurzweil's for that matter). Good luck!

[RABid]

You can always MIDI the MOXF to the Kronos and play the Kronos organ.

[EscapeRocks]

Ideas for complement to Kronos 88

 

-Hey, nice end caps!

 

-Is that a joystick on your top panel , or are you just happy to see me?

 

-Your screen looks so good. May I touch it?

 

-I love your form

 

-I....... OH CRAP... sorry I thought you said Compliment, not complement.

 

Never mind.

 

 

.

 

 

 

yes it's Friday. yes, I'm bored

 

[KeyMoe]

If you like the Nord E4 that NY music store has a great price right now...

[Redknife]

If you like the Nord E4 that NY music store has a great price right now...

Wow, an actual deal on Nord- lower than I'm seeing used advertised prices. Might not last long. I expect to check out the sk1 on Monday and go from there.

[Six-string-man]

I have an Electro 4, and a 61 key SK1. The Nord is great, but I always head for the Hammond, there's just something special about it.

 

 

SSM

[Redknife]

Looks like I'm going to make the Gearfest trek. Good and bad. I'll get to try these boards. The bad is its anyone's guess what I'll wind up with. Maybe a pontoon boat? DSI P-6? Who knows. Practical can take a back seat with all of these options,

[EscapeRocks]

Looks like I'm going to make the Gearfest trek. Good and bad. I'll get to try these boards. The bad is its anyone's guess what I'll wind up with. Maybe a pontoon boat? DSI P-6? Who knows. Practical can take a back seat with all of these options,

 

 

Many moons ago when my local music stored stocked examples of everything, I'd walk in and pretty much lock up, unable to function. Too many good choices besides the item I was looking for.

[Bachus]

I personally complement my kronos with a 76 key Tyros 5, it gives me the best of 2 worlds... easy arranger styles, great wind brass and orchestral sounds, nice european organs.. tough i went the other way, adding the Kronos to my Tyros to complete it with great piano, synths, Karma and everything else Kronos has to offer... to me its a match made in heaven.

 

but since thats probably not what you are looking for, i would suggest getting a midi/daw/vst controller like the NI komplete kontroll S61 with a laptop running NI komplete ultimate under your desk. almost feels like a hardware instrument and yet gives you the most flexible and expandable soundcollection

[Redknife]

I had the opportunity to play all of the boards today mentioned above. All of the thoughts and advice were spot on. Here's what I thought:

Hammond sk-1: like discussed, this board has something that makes it special. Really playable. Organ sounds great. Because of the design, the 88 key looks compact and is light. The non-organ interface is a bit non-intuitive: as I understand it you have to turn off all the organ sliders and buttons to hear only the non-organ sound selected on the screen. I'm used to selecting a patch to effect all necessary changes. I noticed everybody trying the sk1 kind of struggled with that workflow. I guess this is not an issue once you learn the workflow? I wasn't sure I'd choose to use this solo for a gig but with the Kronos would be great. I didn't love the piano sound but the speakers were small.

 

Electro 5d: Sounds very good. To me, the organ sounds are not quite as good as sk1 but I liked it. I liked the new display and the quick effects edit controls. Overall a positive experience. I think I'd be more comfortable using the electro alone for a gig compared to the sk1. The piano was better to my ears. The electro is a fair bit more $ than the sk1.

I tried the various Nord actions and I firmed up that I'd go with the waterfall for this role. I'm no organ ace but I couldn't get the rapid organ comping going on the hammer action. I tried the stage 2ex which sounded fine. Fortunately for my wallet I wasn't swayed that the extra features were of sufficient value to justify the extra $ for my needs. I also didn't personally love the pitch bend/mod wheel controls on the stage model.

 

Yamaha moxf- nice board especially for 1099. Great value. The sounds do in fact complement the Kronos nicely. No surprises here.

Also tried the Yamaha arranger- cool unit, nice sounds. Not what I'm looking for but interesting.

 

I did try different midi controllers but I am really trying to stay with a contained simple setup for this board.

 

At the end of all that, I'm down to the sk1 or the electro-5d 73. Good news is I liked both. I think I'll spend some quieter alone time with the sk1 back in NC. Do sk1-ers find that the switching between organ and say piano is pretty straightforward when you learn the controls better?

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I have the ten main presets set up so that several are "go-to" organ start points and the remainder are piano, Rhodes, Wurly, and a couple of other of the added sounds. Gives me instant switching so that the organ sound is not there along with the added voice. Hammond has released a bunch of libraries, I do wish there was more room in the memory to load more of them at once.

 

I have the SK1-73 which gives me enough room and is still smaller and lighter than the 88. When I do setup dual boards, it works nicely with my PC361 (or PC3X if I need weighted keys). I have played out with just the SK1.

 

I previously had an Electro 3-73. Sold it after a year, liked the portability, frustrated with the patch switching interface and it seemed like the Hammond sound was different from the KB3 in the PC361 but had its own flaws. I like the SK1 Hammond sounds better. Haven't played the Electro 5, don't expect to buy any more boards for a while (my most portable setup is a 49 key MIDI controller into an iPad).

 

[brenner13]

Kurzweil Artis 7? Weaker organ than Hammond, but that German Grand!!!

[Rikismyname]

Yamaha MOXF6

Roland FA-06

Kurzweil PC3

 

Would be my first choices, to go with the Kronos I'd say MOXF6 depending on what you're after sound wise and user interface wise, for me I much pr feted the Roland although the keybed is better on the MOxF but I went for sounds over feel on the top board, but it's all subjective and you may prefer the MOxF6 sounds.

 

Or a Kurzweil PC3 with its strings etc would be a strong contender to. Nicer keybed than the other 2 a lot more sturdy to ( or it looks/feels heavier and more solid as the other 2 are plastic)

[AnotherScott]

With the goals being

 

* organs that are better and easier than Kronos

* extra sounds that include piano, EPs, clav

* Immediacy of interface, performance oriented, easy operation with minimal menus

 

I think the options pretty much remain Nord and Hammond. Organ sound may favor Hammond, along with action; piano/EP/clav(?) and interface (for non-organ operation, anyway) likely favor the Nord.

 

But sure, if you start getting tempted by some other things and shift away from some of those initial goals, then the MOXF, FA-06, Artis have their appeal based on other criteria. But they do fall short in one or more of the key areas listed.

 

Besides those boards, with organ being a focus, you could look at a Numa Organ 2 connected to an iPad for the extra sounds. If the organ doesn't necessarily have to be quite up to the Kronos in sound, the Roland VR-09 would work.

[Bachus]

With the goals being

 

* organs that are better and easier than Kronos

* extra sounds that include piano, EPs, clav

* Immediacy of interface, performance oriented, easy operation with minimal menus

 

I think the options pretty much remain Nord and Hammond. Organ sound may favor Hammond, along with action; piano/EP/clav(?) and interface (for non-organ operation, anyway) likely favor the Nord.

 

But sure, if you start getting tempted by some other things and shift away from some of those initial goals, then the MOXF, FA-06, Artis have their appeal based on other criteria. But they do fall short in one or more of the key areas listed.

 

Besides those boards, with organ being a focus, you could look at a Numa Organ 2 connected to an iPad for the extra sounds. If the organ doesn't necessarily have to be quite up to the Kronos in sound, the Roland VR-09 would work.

 

I think he wants a Nord... Fully fits his description..

 

nord stage 2 EX compact if he can live witouth real drawbars...

Or Nord Electro 5 if he prefers drawbars and accepts the fact that he can not layer an acoustic piano with an epiano..

[stoken6]

The Hammond SK1 clavs have got a lot of love on this board afaik. Nord clavs are "ok". But Nord sneaks ahead for better AP than the SK1.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[midinut]

I like my MOXF6 but after reading the entire SpaceStation thread (and ordering one) you may find that the Sk1 is a better fit. People are going on and on about how good it sounds through the SS. Check your PMs if you would please.

[Rick K.]

I use a Nord E3/73 over a Kronos 88 and love the combo. There's nothing this rig can't do well IMO.

[Redknife]

All things considered, I was about to ready to order the Electro 5d 73. Only thing giving me pause is the Stage 2 EX compact to be available in a month or two. I'm thinking it might be nice to be able to knock some synth lines out on a synth action in a combo setup.

 

As background, both the new Stage 2EX compact and Electro 5d have the new 1gb piano memory and have updated sounds. Both go to low E. Their weight is similar.

 

The key advantages of the Stage 2 EX compact (s2exc for brevity) compared to the Electro 5d 73 (e5d) that I understand are: pitch/mod wheel present on s2exc, synth control section on s2exc, sample memory 360 mb s2exc vs 256 mb in e5d.

 

 

The disadvantages of the s2exc compared to e5d: $1000 more for Stage 2 ex compact, no "set list" feature on s2exc, ? new Principal Pipe organ on s2exc, lack of physical drawbars on the s2exc.

 

Out of all that, I see the $1000 and lack of physical drawbars as the biggest downsides to going with the s2exc.

 

They had the s2ex at Sweetwater to try but it is not yet widely available. I realize my main question that follows is limited by the availability. Nonetheless....

 

Here is the question: Do any Nord guru's or "knowers of keyboards" think there are other downsides to going with the more expensive Stage 2 EX compact vs the Electro 5d 73?

 

If I can work through this last hitch I'll preorder one of them and stop torturing the group (no guarantees stated or implied).

[AnotherScott]

The key advantages of the Stage 2 EX compact (s2exc for brevity) compared to the Electro 5d 73 (e5d) that I understand are: pitch/mod wheel present on s2exc, synth control section on s2exc, sample memory 360 mb s2exc vs 256 mb in e5d.

Also: aftertouch; control of external gear via MIDI; greater split/layer capabilities (i.e. more than two sounds, or two synth/sample sounds at the same time).

[Bachus]

The key advantages of the Stage 2 EX compact (s2exc for brevity) compared to the Electro 5d 73 (e5d) that I understand are: pitch/mod wheel present on s2exc, synth control section on s2exc, sample memory 360 mb s2exc vs 256 mb in e5d.

Also: aftertouch; control of external gear via MIDI; greater split/layer capabilities (i.e. more than two sounds, or two synth/sample sounds at the same time).

 

I also think the effects section is braoder on the stage..

 

Still got me wondering why they didnt i plement the better screen, the drawbars, and the new organs os the stage 2ex...

 

Yet still if the money is a no issue, i would go stage 2 ex compact, it offers so much more with just a few small shortcommings... On the stage you can have 6 sounds, on the E you can only have 2 sounds at the same time...

[timwat]

- Sound emphasis: EP's, Organs, Clavs, Piano (piano not as critical since I have the Kronos 88 but I still care and am primarily a pianist when push comes to shove).

 

The above all suggests Nord to me too. Lots more capabilities on the Stage, significantly more cheddar for the privilege.

 

The sound of Nord products seem to be a really good complement to the Kronos - they sit in the mix differently and really provide that "two different voices" thing in a really nice way.