Live monitors - floor or pole?

[Dave Bryce]

I usually put my monitors on the floor, angled up at me from behind. Been doing it that way for years...

 

WIthout wanting to go into too much detail as to what led to it, I decided to try using speaker stands last night....and I simply can't believe how much better I liked it, and how much more defined the rig sounded to me. Everyone I asked (audience and band) was able to hear me much better as well, and my rig sounded much more balanced from top to bottom in general.

 

Admittedly, some of the boom thing could probably be mitigated using something like an Auralex pad....but the difference in general wasn't subtle.

 

What about the rest of you? Floor? Stands? Amp rack? Other?

 

dB

[Michael Wright]

Floor or chair if I have to Dave, but I prefer it up on a road case or table.

[RudyS]

I also have it lying on the floor. Sometimes lifted on a flight case or something. It is more a cosmetic thing. I don't like the poles on the stage, but agree it sounds better.

 

how high did you set the speakers Dave?

 

[rappa29]

It depends on the gig and stage real estate.

 

July 4th we played an outdoor house party. I had just enough room to set my K10 on the floor at the side of the stage. It was a short stage (height wise), so I could've opted to put it on a pole stand off the stage. It would've been fine and also given a side wash of my keys across the stage for my bandmates.

 

Generally though, I'd say about 80% it's on the floor and 20% pole stand. This is based on using it solely as a stage monitor. If there's no FOH and I have to use it as such, it goes on a pole stand behind me at about 5:00 or 7:00 (depending on which side of the stage I'm on). This way it projects out front clearly and I can get a bit of the wash.

[SpaceNorman]

I agree ... things definitely sound better when my monitors on poles - but whether or not I use poles depends on stage real estate and the gig itself.

 

Obviously, using poles makes for a slightly larger footprint on stage ... so when space is an issue, I go with a wedge monitor configuration.

 

Coverage (on stage as well as out into the FOH) is far broader when I put my monitors on poles in comparison to when they're in a wedge monitor configuration. When keeping stage volume to a bare minimum is critical - I go with the wedge monitor configuration as well.

 

In the end - I use the stands when working larger stages where getting a little broader coverage so that bandmates on the far side of the stage hear a little more keyboard presence. The stands rarely leave the house when I'm doing bar gigs ... but I always bring 'em for "concert in the park" stuff.

[brenner13]

JBL PRX15 upright on the floor with QSC K12 on top. This aims the top tweeter at my shoulder blades with rig behind me, which is really about 16 inches too low for best stage monitoring, but I often get good comments about the sound in smal to mid-sized bar gigs and it even seems to do well for smaller outdoor situations. I've tried the QSC on a pole over the JBL but I seem to loose some oomph and girth when the cabinets are not coupled. Perhaps I need to find a small box to raise the whole rig a foot or two off the floor.

[ITGITC]

 

dB,

 

Which monitors and which stands were you using?

 

Tom

 

[Dave Bryce]

how high did you set the speakers Dave?

Not very - the horn was about even with my ears.

 

Which monitors and which stands were you using?

QSC KW122 on a Gemini stand.

 

dB

[Delaware Dave]

I have found that I hear the monitors better when they are on poles rather than the floor.

[J. Dan]

I believe floor can provide better isolation between the different monitor mixes, depending on stage layout, which can be a huge factor. I like mine in the wedge position, but elevated - either on the drum riser or a case. Last Saturday I had it elevated at ear level on a road case laying sideways firing at me directly and that was pretty good. I guess that would be similar to pole except that it was laying on its side.

[Brettymike]

That's what my mate Eddie Rayner does these days at every chance , has 2 smallest speakers (stereo) behind his head on poles , and I copy when possible .

 

Brett

[dama]

Poles are to high for me, since I sit when playing. I use an amp stand or milk crate(s). I haven't come across PA poles that have a lower height setting.

[wjwilcox]

I put my K10 on it's side on an amp stand to my left, angled up to my head. I can hear it clearly with minimal stage volume.

[cphollis]

A pair of pole, almost always.

 

Put'em a few feet behind my head, L/R, and I'm good. I can hear myself, and the rest of the band can hear me as well if the monitor mix isn't there. They tell me they like the sound.

 

The Ultimate TS-90B stands can be used sitting or standing: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TS90B/

 

When one or two PA units do have to go on the floor, I use acoustic isolation, especially if I'm on a wood stage, otherwise it'll get very boomy.

[WesG]

J dan, don't forget about tweeter dispersion patterns... Rotating 90 degrees has a HUGE effect on who hears you and how.

[JeffLearman]

Normally, wedges, due to space limitations. When there is space for poles, I usually use them, especially if I'm not sending to FOH.

 

Perhaps you guys have smaller poles, but for what I have, poles take WAY more real estate.

[Rikismyname]

If it's a smaller stage I put mine angled up to the right of me and just in front and the other mackie c300z speaker the other side of the stage for others with a different volume level set to it via my double amp mixer.

 

If there's room I pole mount them on stands about head level either behind or hidden at the side of the stage behind those stage curtain thingys.

[J. Dan]

J dan, don't forget about tweeter dispersion patterns... Rotating 90 degrees has a HUGE effect on who hears you and how.

 

Exactly! Which is why I think it worked - I think I'm the only one who could hear it since the drummer had IEM's.

 

We had a recent thread on Backline and monitors. In situations where the band (or even audience) relies on your monitor - pole mounted, 100%! In a traditional mid to large venue setting where your monitor is YOUR monitor, and everyone wants their own mix, and you don't want any bleed to FOH, I think wedge is best (well, IEM's are best).

 

Vocals are a factor also. I sing quite a bit and you don't want monitor/amp bleed in the vocal mic. Pole would be fin if it's in front of me facing back. Otherwise, it's going to fire into my vocal mic.

[Delaware Dave]

Perhaps you guys have smaller poles ..

Not all of us...

[RudyS]

Perhaps you guys have smaller poles ..

Not all of us...

 

[Tom Williams]

I use a couple of small Yamaha powered monitors -- dual five-inch speakers each -- as near-field side fills. They're sufficient to let me hear what I am singing and playing, without bleeding too much into the microphone. I built a couple of 8"x10" platforms to mount on top of standard (non-boom) microphone stands, so they can be adjusted to either sitting or standing height. They're great when space is an issue.

[PianoMan51]

Hi Dave.

 

I started a thread, 'Raise 'em up, tilt 'em down' last week. My standard setup is a good powered speaker on a pole with a Yorkville 15deg tilt adaptor. But before I make any recommendations let me ask a few simple questions:

 

1). When you say 'monitor', is this your personal monitor (just so you can hear yourself) or is this a band monitor (so you and the band can hear you) or is the way that everyone (you, band and audience) hears you?

2). Do you play standing or sitting?

3). Do you sing?

4). And if you sing, do you face the audience or do they see your side?

 

In my specific case for small gigs my speaker is the vocal and keyboard PA. No separate monitors. I sit and sing, and face across stage so the audience sees my side and my hands. By raising the speaker and tilting it down, everybody (me, the band and the audience) all get the maximum benefit of the tweeter, without the bass boost created by sitting the speaker on the floor. This also minimizes the slap-back echo from the back wall in boxy venues.

 

Now here's where it gets tricky, but I've been doing it so long that it's second nature. Getting a good stage balance is a matter of geometry. First step, with the speaker up on the pole, and the pole in the right position, just behind my keyboard, I set the volume level to match the rest of the band. I position the end of my keyboard rig a few feet in front of the speaker so that I can hear a nice balance of everyone in the band, including myself, with most of the speaker sound going over my head towards the band and the audience. If I hear myself too loudly, just move the speaker up a notch, or rotate it very slightly away from me and toward the band. And vice versa.

 

And this is with me singing and an open mic in front of the speaker. WTF? Because I'm angled across the stage, the sound comes into the mic at 90deg. And I choose a mic that I need to eat (OM-6) for low gain, and I situate myself so that my ears are at the edge of the speakers high frequency throw (-6dB), not in the center. If I get a ring during sound check, I raise the speaker up another notch.

 

Oh yes, notice that I'm one of those players for whom sound always trumps looks.

 

[stillplaying]

Function band - powered speaker on a stand pointed across the band. Keyboard through PA for FOH. Passive DI used to split signal.

 

The rooms are quite big with lots of guests - I doubt they can hear anything from the powered monitor.

[Joe Muscara]

I find it interesting that several have said that they use poles when they can, but put the monitor on the floor when space is at a premium. As has been discussed elsewhere, some of these speakers such as the QSC K series are very directional. I've found when I have my K10 on the floor that it sounds best a few feet away. I've often thought that a pole mount would be better when I didn't have space, so I can shoot it right at my head. It's something I'm considering doing, but I'm still working out other details of my rig first.

[Reezekeys]

On my weekly jazz jam gig I have my usual stereo setup of 2 QSC K8s set up a bit unconventionally. My right speaker is behind and to my right, on a pole, about 7 feet high, angled slightly downwards and pointed mostly towards myself and the bandstand (I set up on stage right). My left speaker is behind & to the left, on stage, on a small foldable stool that raises it about 8" off the floor, tilted slightly up and between me and the drummer. I set the output levels of each to give me a balanced sound usually the left speaker will have its gain set a little higher to compensate for the right speaker's sound having a more direct path to my ears. What's cool is that the pole mounted speaker really helps cover the audience space while the one right behind me gives me the feeling that my sound is right where I am which has a lot to do with my being comfortable playing.

 

The result is a good stereo image for me, excellent coverage for the band members, and more than adequate coverage for the room (a smallish restaurant). The K8s' wide dispersion pattern helps a lot. I've listened to other keyboard players on my rig (it's a jam so I do get some breaks), walking around the room, and it really sounds excellent.

 

If your monitoring has to do triple duty like mine (personal monitoring, sound for the bandstand, and audience), there will probably need to be some compromises somewhere but I'm 100% happy with what I have (the sound of the room helps too).

 

I have another weekly gig in a restaurant that has a much more live sound due to linoleum tile flooring and brick walls. The sound is far less satisfying to me. The leader likes to put me through the PA. I really do not like hearing myself both from behind with my K8s and bouncing off the rear walls of the club from the PA. That's probably another thread though!

[ITGITC]

 

 

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2g1bdyv0zEY/0.jpg

 

I like this idea, but wonder if a larger pair of speakers would be too much, if placed on stands just like this pic.

 

I am considering the purchase of a new pair of monitors. The Yamaha DXR10 can be used as floor monitors. The DXR8 cannot.

 

Would you prefer the DXR10 because of this flexibility, or would you rather have a pair of smaller speakers on stands, as in the photo this?

 

...Or, would positioning the monitors off the floor (horizontally), using an amp stand be better?

 

http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mtwQ3tyhJf2LOiTH0vWkjyw.jpg

 

 

Currently, I'm leaning towards the DXR10.

 

 

[Tusker]

Our stage volumes are low, and we like it that way. The K12 projects quite a bit if placed on a stand. I keep it on the floor as much as possible. The floor angle is quite usable for me. Depending on the stage, I may run it in subwoofer mode to tame the lows a bit.

[J. Dan]

 

I like this idea, but wonder if a larger pair of speakers would be too much, if placed on stands just like this pic.

 

Problem I'd have with that, as I eluded before, would be that it would be firing right into my vocal mic. In front of me firing at my face would work, but then they're partially blocking the audience view....and EVERYBODY wants to see the sexy keyboard player!!!

[ITGITC]

 

...and EVERYBODY wants to see the sexy keyboard player!!!

 

Tru-Dat.

 

...and I bet they'd like to see you too, Dan!

 

 

[DanL]

Here's where I put my monitor when I'm not using IEM's. I run vocals and sometimes some guitar back thru it as well, from a monitor mix coming from the main mixer. It's just about ear height, sitting on my rack which is on a quiklok table type stand.

 

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/dan88z/keyrig_zps82a5a775.jpg