Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Raymb1]

http://www.centerpointstereo.com/about.php This vid is a good explanation of the SSV3.

[Al Coda]

Which goes to the point I kind of made somewhere a few (or many) tens of pages back stereo samples that sound bad in mono may not sound too good through this amp.

 

Yep.

 

OTOH, a Rhodes or B3 (mono sources) through a Leslie effect or phaser/chorus should sound amazing.

 

Yes, I think of some specialized usage of a SSv3, maybe just only as a rotary speaker sim projector,- thus Leslie replacement ...

Or for stereo FX return only when using a mixer and blend in FX via the auxes.

 

For my keyboard monitor solution, I also thought about using small stereo speakers mounted to my from USS parts custom designed keyboardstands, me standing in the sweet spot only about 2-3 feet away, then running a SSv3 in a larger distance in addition, using reflections from the environment.

For the small stereo speakers, I really think about studio monitor type ones.

It would be a typical nearfield monitor situation not requireing very much power and SPL.

 

It can only be an advantage to have good mono compatibility.

 

I always wondered why they didn´t pay attention to this since decades.

Even when the samples in DPs or other ROMplers were mono, the FX were stereo but not mono compatible.

So, often using the FX alone, destroyed the mono compatibility in the FOH when they decided to run mono (and didn´t tell me).

 

On my local gigs I use my two QSCs but when I tour I got one wedge and it was such a drag to hear my acoustic piano, knowing how much better it sounded at the local bar! I say "got" because I just went in-ears so I have full-time stereo now.

 

There was the time I didn´t any local gigs at all, just concert touring.

Ironically, the venues became larger and larger and I went back from large power amps and 3-way cabs to smaller and smaller amplification for my keys.

In the end I had some pair of D&B E3 w/ controller/amp attached to my customized Ultimate stand.

I was able to blend in the other musicians signals into my monitors.

That system was expensive and always rented for a tour,- I didn´t buy.

 

Today I think too, in-ear is the best compromize when touring.

 

OTOH, I like it to perform w/ speakers and don´t have anything plugged in into my ears.

The feeling and experience is different.

 

A.C.

 

[MotiDave]

Cedar, I think it's the [url:http://www.skbcases.com/music/products/proddetail.php?f=&id=218&o=&offset=&c=81&s=81]SKB Rolling Mixer Bag.[/url]

 

I got one like that but it was top loading, which works great for ss3 as it has a top handle. I can't remember the brand, maybe gator but not sure, its a mixer case. it had rigid sides under the canvas, pretty sweet. fit as perfect as could be. the guys at the online retailer I got it at would know ... I can't say who but they also sell the ss3

 

 

[url:http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GPA720]This?[/url]

 

 

thats the one.

[Reezekeys]

It can only be an advantage to have good mono compatibility.

I always wondered why they didn´t pay attention to this since decades.

I can guess. There is no real need for mono. I'm old so I remember the days of listening to music on the AM radio in the car. That's when you needed mono compatibility. And TV sets too, they were always mono. Not anymore. Of course it would be nice for MI companies to acknowledge that their beautiful stereo instruments, once brought on a stage, might be played through a single wedge or (mono) amp.

 

Today I think too, in-ear is the best compromize when touring.

 

OTOH, I like it to perform w/ speakers and don´t have anything plugged in into my ears.

The feeling and experience is different.

I agree but my ringing ears say "no more speakers"! I have to do it, unfortunately.

[Synthaholic]

Thanks for all the responses on using it outdoors.

 

Has anyone run any keyboard bass/drums thru it in a MIDI mix? I currently use a Fender Passport 250 Deluxe (1st Gen/Bose) for very small, quiet gigs, in stereo, and it handles bass/drums fine at that low volume. But I'd like to replace it with an SS3.

[DanL]

I do some key bass, if it's a low volume it's ok. If it's even moderately loud, it doesn't do a good job. It's one of it's few weaknesses and why many users combine it with a bass amp or sub.

 

[hatricklov]

Has anyone run any keyboard bass/drums thru it in a MIDI mix? I currently use a Fender Passport 250 Deluxe (1st Gen/Bose) for very small, quiet gigs, in stereo, and it handles bass/drums fine at that low volume. But I'd like to replace it with an SS3.

I played for a school program with my SK1 and DR-880 drum machine. The SS3 had issues with the bass in one of the drum kits in the set, but nothing noticeable with me playing LH bass. Fortunately, the DR-880 has EQ settings and I was able to tone down the bass and everything sounded fine.

 

I would suggest finding someone with an SS3 near you that would be willing to let you try out your MIDI mix with it.

[Synthaholic]

I do some key bass, if it's a low volume it's ok. If it's even moderately loud, it doesn't do a good job. It's one of it's few weaknesses and why many users combine it with a bass amp or sub.

 

Bummer. Thanks guys.

[Doug Robinson]

Hang on there:

 

"Has anyone run any keyboard bass/drums thru it in a MIDI mix? I currently use a Fender Passport 250 Deluxe (1st Gen/Bose) for very small, quiet gigs, in stereo, and it handles bass/drums fine at that low volume. But I'd like to replace it with an SS3."

 

For very small, quiet gigs'? It will be as good if not better than the Passport, which I used to use myself. If you were kicking bass in an organ trio that played with some fire, then it would be a different story--you'd add a bass amp or a subwoofer. But for what you described I think it would work perfectly, actually.

 

[Synthaholic]

I gotta hear one of these things. Maybe Atlanta has it.

[Raymb1]

The SKB case weighs 14.6 lbs and the Gator case weighs 22 lbs. Sweetwater sells the SSV3

[cphollis]

Do I sometimes miss having deeper bass on the SSv3? Yes.

 

Do I miss it enough to schlep more gear to the gig? No.

[cedar]

I went ahead and purchased the Gator, not thinking about the weight difference. On the other hand, since the cases have wheels, I'm not sure that matters much.

[Doug Robinson]

Well, I'm coming up on my first full year of using the Space Station and I have to say that 40 lbs isn't a lot or weight for the sound coverage, but it also isn't a tiny amount! I've schlepped this thing in and out of my car, onto and off of stages and into my house and then back out 2-4 times a week for the most part and I've taken to paying a kid to help me load and unload my car for the past few weeks. Much better

[Doerfler]

I do some key bass, if it's a low volume it's ok. If it's even moderately loud, it doesn't do a good job. It's one of it's few weaknesses and why many users combine it with a bass amp or sub.

I'm considering one of these. Hopefully it will also help with the boxiness of the AP's.

4 18's. Yeah, that should do it.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/9GNfsY.jpg

[JPerry]

I sometimes use a bass amp, a very light GK. I forget the model number, but it's a single 12. Normally this is for a duo in which I'm the stand in bass player, and it works very well for this application, providing some needed extra clout. AP patches are hardest for any amplification system to deal with, including the SS which I find to be a bit mid heavy for AP. For EP or organ, it sounds great without much fiddling. Easy to deal with on my CP4, as it has a built in five band EQ. I do find that adding a bass amp "rounds" the sound and reduces the boxyness to a degree. That said, for solo gigs, I just use the SS and try to find a corner to place it in. That makes a huge difference, to the point of having too much bass! Every room is different, but to me the one box solution (or even two box, with the SS sitting on top of the bass amp) is too big an advantage to ignore.

[TimA]

I hear they only way 150 Kilos...lol

[Aspen]

Has anyone run any keyboard bass/drums thru it in a MIDI mix? I currently use a Fender Passport 250 Deluxe (1st Gen/Bose) for very small, quiet gigs, in stereo, and it handles bass/drums fine at that low volume. But I'd like to replace it with an SS3.

 

Hey Synthaholic (luv that handle), one of our first users was a one man band act, Andre Berry, who is also a world class bass player and tours with David Sanborn.

 

Andre had been using a QSC powered monitor and wanted something that gave him more depth. He has drum machines, sequenced sample, synths and vocals. Then plays live bass building a bottom thru loops and finally sings over all of that...it's pretty amazing when you hear him live.

 

He came out to try out a SS3 about a year ago at our studio, then bought one straight away. Shortly thereafter I spent a night at a local club and heard two sets. Amazing act. He also had a female vocalists sit in on some songs. This was a challenging format for any speaker, but extremely entertaining, especially in 3D stereo! A very complicated multi track stuff, and kinda reminded me of what you requested.

 

We had Andre come back a few weeks later and video record some of his stuff for us. You can see this (and 24+ other live CPS SS3 videos) on our CPS website. Andre recorded in our big room, at around 95+dB and thru a M/S stereo mic system with no "remix tricks", so it is just as he rolls and as close to "being there" as I know how to record.

 

Put on a set of good headphones and listen to an artist:

 

 

One caution, the CPS host blabs too long, he thinks you really want to know how all this works and he spends WAY too much time on that (he was just learning himself...later videos have MUCH shorter intros). My advice; skip thru all the tech talk and FF to the meat, about half way thru when Andre starts to play. It's a treat to listen how he builds his tunes thru the SS3. This is segment one, we did two segments with Andre that day, and the second good too BUT it has the same Bla Bla boring host rambling the same tech talk...so again you should probably skip directly to his performance.

 

 

 

 

[Aspen]

I gotta hear one of these things. Maybe Atlanta has it.

Looking for a rental partner in Atlanta...got any leads? Then you can try it out on a gig or rehearsal and if you later decide to buy one get up to $50 back upon purchase w/ your rental receipt.

[Aspen]

It can only be an advantage to have good mono compatibility.

I always wondered why they didn´t pay attention to this since decades.

I can guess. There is no real need for mono. I'm old so I remember the days of listening to music on the AM radio in the car. That's when you needed mono compatibility. And TV sets too, they were always mono. Not anymore. Of course it would be nice for MI companies to acknowledge that their beautiful stereo instruments, once brought on a stage, might be played through a single wedge or (mono) amp.

 

Today I think too, in-ear is the best compromize when touring.

 

OTOH, I like it to perform w/ speakers and don´t have anything plugged in into my ears.

The feeling and experience is different.

I agree but my ringing ears say "no more speakers"! I have to do it, unfortunately.

IMHO, that ringing in the ears is from using highly directional speakers with a cutting mid horn....typical PA monitor, beamy flashlights; all their SPL is very directional with little or no no energy off axis. It's your "monitor" so naturally you point them at you...and your ears get killed, making it hard to hear anything else. This is a leading cause of tinnitus, and frankly spoken, IE monitors can be just as damaging if you are not careful.

 

With the SS3 we get a VERY wide dispersion (300 degrees), and a soft dispersion that is "big" w/o being "loud". This is more like a light bulb, rather than a beamy flashlight...and you plus every one stage can hear you clearly without you getting into a Loudness Contest!

 

 

[Reezekeys]

I agree but my ringing ears say "no more speakers"! I have to do it, unfortunately.

IMHO, that ringing in the ears is from using highly directional speakers with a cutting mid horn....typical PA monitor, beamy flashlights; all their SPL is very directional with little or no no energy off axis. It's your "monitor" so naturally you point them at you...and your ears get killed, making it hard to hear anything else. This is a leading cause of tinnitus, and frankly spoken, IE monitors can be just as damaging if you are not careful.

 

With the SS3 we get a VERY wide dispersion (300 degrees), and a soft dispersion that is "big" w/o being "loud". This is more like a light bulb, rather than a beamy flashlight...and you plus every one stage can hear you clearly without you getting into a Loudness Contest!

I'm sure you're right that having a horn beaming high frequencies right to your ears can lead to problems, but in my case it was more about setting up next to loud drummers! On my local gigs I set up with my QSCs in back of me and raised about eight inches off the floor. The horns are way below my ear level and I never get a direct hit from them.

[Synthaholic]

I gotta hear one of these things. Maybe Atlanta has it.

Looking for a rental partner in Atlanta...got any leads? Then you can try it out on a gig or rehearsal and if you later decide to buy one get up to $50 back upon purchase w/ your rental receipt.

 

Atlanta is also 4 hours away, so a trip there would be for a purchase.

 

I think I'm just going to order one from Sweetwater in the next few weeks. If I don't like it I'll send it back. I've bought enough stuff there to not feel guilty.

[Doug Robinson]

It's the only way to have the experience, Synth. Do remember this: there is an adjustment period, where you tweak it (positioning mostly) to sound best to you and also rethink your relationship to 'volume.' Sounds impossible, but the amp projects--surrounds is more accurate--without actually being as loud as you're probably used to. I was constantly wondering if I was loud enough and sneaking my volume up only to get the feedback from the band that they were hearing me perfectly well before. Then I realized that I had been hearing myself well too, just worrying about the others.

[cphollis]

It's the only way to have the experience, Synth. Do remember this: there is an adjustment period, where you tweak it (positioning mostly) to sound best to you and also rethink your relationship to 'volume.' Sounds impossible, but the amp projects--surrounds is more accurate--without actually being as loud as you're probably used to. I was constantly wondering if I was loud enough and sneaking my volume up only to get the feedback from the band that they were hearing me perfectly well before. Then I realized that I had been hearing myself well too, just worrying about the others.

 

Exact same experience here. Once you adjust, it's a happy place.

[DaveMcM]

i purchased the Upgrade Kit 'C' from CPS to turn my Mk2 into a Mk3 and just finished the upgrade. Well worth the price of admission. The highs and mids are more defined, the bass is tight and more present and the new side speaker is much fuller sounding than the original. Very happy, thanks for making this kit available Aspen.

[ShadowMan]

I'm close to dropping the hammer on one - any thoughts on the merits of running the sub out into my EV ZLX-12p for some extra bass?

 

With thanks, in advance.

[Dave Bryce]

I'm close to dropping the hammer on one - any thoughts on the merits of running the sub out into my EV ZLX-12p for some extra bass?

I have yet to need it...but then again, I rarely play what I would call big venues.

 

I actually don't like too much low end thump out of my onstage monitoring system. Gets me in trouble with our bass player.

 

dB

[ShadowMan]

Thanks, Dave.

 

I also have a Barbetta 31C I could consider stacking under the SS3 - if needed - for larger rooms where I don't go thru the house system. Maybe that's a better option.

 

(I just don't want to wind up underpowered and overdriving the system...)

[cphollis]

Thanks, Dave.

 

I also have a Barbetta 31C I could consider stacking under the SS3 - if needed - for larger rooms where I don't go thru the house system. Maybe that's a better option.

 

(I just don't want to wind up underpowered and overdriving the system...)

 

The darn thing is much louder in real life than it is on paper. The only way you'd be overdriving it is (a) you fail to compensate for the way it projects, and end up playing way too loud as a result, or (b) you're competing with an insanely loud guitarist.

[Danny Linguini]

Thanks, Dave.

 

I also have a Barbetta 31C I could consider stacking under the SS3 - if needed - for larger rooms where I don't go thru the house system. Maybe that's a better option.

 

(I just don't want to wind up underpowered and overdriving the system...)

 

The darn thing is much louder in real life than it is on paper. The only way you'd be overdriving it is (a) you fail to compensate for the way it projects, and end up playing way too loud as a result, or (b) you're competing with an insanely loud guitarist.

 

All this, plus just trying to drive too much bass through it. This amp seems to be over driven a little easier than other systems I've had by pushing the low end.

 

As I've poster earlier, I gig solo with a CP4, drum machine and a mic -- mostly AP'S, but a few EP's and some layered strings. Without the drum machine I could pretty easily get by without a sub; but the drums need that little extra punch. But for 'normal' keyboards, especially if you're not providing bass, and as cp says, you're not butting heads with a volume-crazy guitar, the SS3 can usually hold its own far better than its specs would suggest.