Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Doug Robinson]

Lol--I actually do, and you'd agree if you saw the video I put up of our improvised duets on the "Let's Hear Your Music!" thread.

[Doug Robinson]

 

Last night.

[endlessummerkeys]

I know this is mainly a keyboard site, but if you have a MOOG Theremini, try it through the SS, the sound is amazing!!!!!!

 

[Doerfler]

 

Last night.

 

looks like it was a lot of fun.

[Jazzmammal]

Sounds good man. I'm past the million mark on that tune as well.

 

I've never done a vid but I'm thinking it's now or never so I've been asking everyone I can, what did you use for this vid? And, did you notice the audio sync is out a good half a beat? I see that a lot, any idea why that is?

 

Bob

[Doug Robinson]

It's not out of sync when I watch it on Vimeo for me--strange.

[Aspen]

 

Last night.

 

Whoa Doug boy, dat sum Spunky Fhit...thanks for the share!

[Bill Spencer]

I finally got around to making a couple of reflector panels for my SS3. They also serve to protect the amp for schlepping (1st pic).

 

Made 'em out of some black coroplast panels, with gaff tape hinges. Stickyback velcro attachments. They're a little floppy when deployed- sometimes I have to put something on the floor to keep them in place. I only use one or both if the side speaker is going to fire right at someone. Never had to use both yet...

 

http://i58.tinypic.com/nmj2ip.jpghttp://i62.tinypic.com/2eowcix.jpg

[Bossbandbob]

I actually had a gig Sat. night using the SS3 where the audience could hear me fine but the band could not. It was a new club that had a very wide but not very deep stage and we basically had to line up side by side. I was originally positioned stage right with the amp diagonal to me at the right. Other amps, players and a case were blocking my sound to the band. After getting rid of the case,and repositioning the SS to my left pointing at a 45% angle and upwards towards the band, problem solved!

[Doug Robinson]

I've had that before, Bob. But since I started putting my amp on its side on a stand the problem has vanished.

[MathOfInsects]

I know someone posted this once in Season 6, but I just thought I'd pipe in with an endorsement of the Onstage RS4000 as a good option for propping the SS3 sideways. It keeps the amp close to the floor for good bass coupling, folds small enough to fit in an equipment bag or outside pocket of a keyboard case, and the price is more than right.

 

Onstage RS4000

 

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab67/mathofinsects/446311_med_zps8cd1celh.jpg

[MathOfInsects]

I've had that before, Bob. But since I started putting my amp on its side on a stand the problem has vanished.

 

I use mine sideways more often than upright these days as well, though usually for the opposite reason: bass player and drummer going deaf from me but the front line asking me to turn up. I do think the sideways thing dampens the 3D effect a bit, but it also mellows the overall sound in a way that my ear still likes. And it meshes more reliably onstage.

[Aspen]

I know someone posted this once in Season 6, but I just thought I'd pipe in with an endorsement of the Onstage RS4000 as a good option for propping the SS3 sideways. It keeps the amp close to the floor for good bass coupling, folds small enough to fit in an equipment bag or outside pocket of a keyboard case, and the price is more than right.

 

Onstage RS4000

 

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab67/mathofinsects/446311_med_zps8cd1celh.jpg

 

Wow, how did I miss that in season 6...I like the lower profile for the reasons you mention; more bass! I need one of these myself...and at $25 on sale at Sweetwater this is a no brainer...ordering today!

[MathOfInsects]

Wow, how did I miss that in season 6...I like the lower profile for the reasons you mention; more bass! I need one of these myself...and at $25 on sale at Sweetwater this is a no brainer...ordering today!

 

I missed it too, and was actually signing on to announce this ideal stand I'd found, when I figured I should do a search just to be sure. Sure enough, it'd been mentioned once before.

 

Hard to think of a better match for this amp. Controls are still accessible, size is perfect (both for the amp and for not adding another item to haul). FYI, I hold the bottom bracket up with a small piece of rubber when I want a more severe angle; even a couple of degrees makes a difference on a tight stage.

 

[MotiDave]

don't you need it to literally be coupled to the floor to get that improved bass coupling - physically in contact?

 

I don't know, its an honest question.

[MathOfInsects]

As far as I know, acoustic coupling is not a function of physical contact. It's purely a function of proximity to a reflective surface. (The SS3 is already on rubber [i.e., shock-absorbing] feet, raised off the floor, roughly the same distance as when it sits sideways on this particular stand.)

 

I *think the effect is a distance-formula related to the physical size of the speaker, but someone smarter than I will have to weigh in on that.

 

There is mechanical coupling that occurs when non-shock-absorbed cabinets vibrate the floor itself. But that's not the case with the SS3.

 

Aspen: correct?

[Aspen]

As far as I know, acoustic coupling is not a function of physical contact. It's purely a function of proximity to a reflective surface. (The SS3 is already on rubber [i.e., shock-absorbing] feet, raised off the floor, roughly the same distance as when it sits sideways on this particular stand.)

 

I *think the effect is a distance-formula related to the physical size of the speaker, but someone smarter than I will have to weigh in on that.

 

There is mechanical coupling that occurs when non-shock-absorbed cabinets vibrate the floor itself. But that's not the case with the SS3.

 

Aspen: correct?

 

I am sure there is scientific formula based on size of the larger bass wave forms and how high the lift is before it "decouples"...but really, suffice to say the closer and more solid the coupling to the floor you place your SS3...the more bass enhancement you will notice.

 

Just try this yourself w/ you SS3 (or with ANY speaker); stand well away and have with a pal gradually lift it off the floor as a good full range CD plays...you will hear this "loss of bass effect" really noticeably at around 8-12 inches of lift...but probably not so much difference b/w 1 and 3 inches. So if the amp stand is around 1-3 inches I think you are good.

 

I can tell you from my experience I do not like the SS3 on a pole, unless it is a REAL tall pole so as to couple with the ceiling and also if you are using a sub. Then you can get away with pole mounting. I have a SS3 in our big room at APR mounted upside down on the ceiling...and I REALLY like that too.

 

But I also think when using the amp stand means you will also likely be setting it horizontally...so that the side speaker is positioned MUCH CLOSER to the floor than in the upright position. And naturally that enhances it's coupling to the floor and, in so doing, increase the Side spearker's bass response too...as well as the shorten the distance of the "bloom" for the CPS 3D imaging. I think some guys actually prefer this method now that they have experimented with it, especially in smaller clubs and tighter spaces.

 

But as with all "concepts", the science should follow the arts. One of my wise audio Yodas who mentored me, Dick Rosmini who was a world class musician and audio engineer (part of the Tascam portastudio development team, which empowered the musician "project" studio revolution) had a great line he always use when we were discussion "theory" and "formulas"; "Let's try one and see"!

 

The best measurement tools you will ever have are your own ears. Believe in what you are hearing, not what scientists, brochures and "measurement" guys tell you. If you like it better on the floor sideways on a 1" or 3" amp stand...then it IS better!

[zaj58]

Just received my SV3 today.. Gave it first test run at the house. Well, I know this amp is much beloved by most as evidenced in this forum, but I have to say it hasn't blown me away..I have been playing my electro 5d thru it and of course it's the AP's I use as the bench mark. AP's on the nord sound decent enough but still have that stage amp boxiness . Of course Hammond sounds sound nice and Ep's sound nice, but they usually do even in mono. I may have a different perspective then others here because i have been using a MS 500sn prior to this purchases and honestly so far im thinking I like the MS better. The stereo litmus test to me is the stereo auto pan on a rhodes. I do like the fatter dimensional effect I get from the MS better. Of course that amp is almost twice the price as the SV3 and only marginally better in my opinion. Also i dont need mixers/subs special stands and sound reflectors to tweek the sounds.. with that said i do think this is a great KB amp option , one of the best out there for sure. I just think in my case I could have done without it..but with so much buzz on this thing it was hard to resist( you all know how that goes).I may be sending it back or offering it up for sale on here shortly. In fairness it needs a little more experimenting

[rockinredeye]

zaj58: Whenever I see a first response like yours to the SS, kind of a 'meh' response, I think that since the CPS sound blows me away (yeah, I'm one of those), I have a few suggestions: not to insult your intelligence but definitely run stereo to the amp - a single mono signal will sound like nothing special, but you probably know that since you have the MS. Leave about 5 or 6 feet between you and the amp; you can't really hear the stereo effect when it is close to you. I made this mistake for a few months! Put it a foot or two from a wall or corner so it can reflect some sound around the room. Experiment like you said. And the width control needs to be at about 12 o'clock or more to the right. I have put CDs and iPhone program material through mine and it makes room filling stereo. Even stereo TV sounds great. Good luck.

[16251]

I'd also say it would be good to get some friends to listen from afar. Maybe even use another amp, that you can A/B.

 

I wasn't blown away first time I played through it at my house. A day later it sounded great. Also, this amp is about giving everyone in audience a similar experience as yourself. You can't say that about many amps.

[drawback]

I've noticed every time I make the switch from B3 / Rhodes to an AP sound on my NS2 that it takes a couple of minutes for my ears to warm up to the piano sound.

 

Also when I first got my SSv.3 I spent some time working with my existing sounds to get the best possible out of them. In some ways, it was like hearing them for the first time. Bearing in mind that everyone is finally going to be hearing what you hear, the payoff is spectacular.

 

 

 

 

[Doug Robinson]

"In fairness it needs a little more experimenting"

 

 

We've all been through this in the beginning, so I hope you'll stick with it and try some of the suggestions that have been offeredand gig with it. Seeing how the band reacted inspired me to tweak the setup a little till I found the right blend of settings and position.

[MathOfInsects]

Motion sound is 2 12s, right? 500 watts. Too big for the back of lots of cars, and at 50 lbs, too heavy for the back of lots of people. If you like yours, you'd be silly to replace it with a smaller speaker that has less power. (I was on the verge of buying one when I stumbled onto the SS3.) The reason to buy a box with a one-square-foot footprint is because you're done carting around monsters, even mini-ones.

 

The better comparison, rather than SS3 vs EVERY AMP OUT THERE, is SS3 vs any amp of similar size and ease of cartage.

 

Can't think of one (ever) that competes.

 

Anyway, as 16251 says, there are a fair number of posts on this mega-thread from people whose first date with the amp ends badly, but who then end up getting married to it. Hang tight, tweak, do a gig or two (with the MS in the car as security if you prefer), and see what you think.

 

As I've said before, VERY glad to see Aspen's home run with this box, but it IS a niche product, and can't be expected to be for everyone. One of the funny effects of the greatness of the box is that more people probably buy it than can really use it for their particular needs, Maybe you're one of them. Time will tell...

[zaj58]

zaj58: Whenever I see a first response like yours to the SS, kind of a 'meh' response, I think that since the CPS sound blows me away (yeah, I'm one of those), I have a few suggestions: not to insult your intelligence but definitely run stereo to the amp - a single mono signal will sound like nothing special, but you probably know that since you have the MS. Leave about 5 or 6 feet between you and the amp; you can't really hear the stereo effect when it is close to you. I made this mistake for a few months! Put it a foot or two from a wall or corner so it can reflect some sound around the room. Experiment like you said. And the width control needs to be at about 12 o'clock or more to the right. I have put CDs and iPhone program material through mine and it makes room filling stereo. Even stereo TV sounds great. Good luck.

Well i had read enough of the posts prior to receiving amp to know a few of the "tricks" I did move the amp around to different locations and distances and of course I am patched in stereo. I really think this amp has a more dramatic effect on the players who have not been playing out of a stereo amp prior, unlike myself. As far as what someone hears 40 ft away in the audience... Im not all that concerned about that( of course i dont want anything to sound bad out there). I need to hear the best sound from my monitor so that i can play comfortably and inspired..please understand, im not in any way saying this is not a good little amp, and its going to make live keyboards sound about as good as they can from one little cabinet. I guess i was hoping that there would be something magical about it that would be the end all solution to having the sound I wish I could get live an I am really speaking about the AP sound..to be fair the MS isnt the "holy grail " either.. I just feel the AP's sound a bit nicer thru it and thats very important to me. Of course all of this is subjective ... and as the amps creator said somewhere back in the posts..."the amp is only human"..love that

[cphollis]

zaj58: Whenever I see a first response like yours to the SS, kind of a 'meh' response, I think that since the CPS sound blows me away (yeah, I'm one of those), I have a few suggestions: not to insult your intelligence but definitely run stereo to the amp - a single mono signal will sound like nothing special, but you probably know that since you have the MS. Leave about 5 or 6 feet between you and the amp; you can't really hear the stereo effect when it is close to you. I made this mistake for a few months! Put it a foot or two from a wall or corner so it can reflect some sound around the room. Experiment like you said. And the width control needs to be at about 12 o'clock or more to the right. I have put CDs and iPhone program material through mine and it makes room filling stereo. Even stereo TV sounds great. Good luck.

Well i had read enough of the posts prior to receiving amp to know a few of the "tricks" I did move the amp around to different locations and distances and of course I am patched in stereo. I really think this amp has a more dramatic effect on the players who have not been playing out of a stereo amp prior, unlike myself. As far as what someone hears 40 ft away in the audience... Im not all that concerned about that( of course i dont want anything to sound bad out there). I need to hear the best sound from my monitor so that i can play comfortably and inspired..please understand, im not in any way saying this is not a good little amp, and its going to make live keyboards sound about as good as they can from one little cabinet. I guess i was hoping that there would be something magical about it that would be the end all solution to having the sound I wish I could get live an I am really speaking about the AP sound..to be fair the MS isnt the "holy grail " either.. I just feel the AP's sound a bit nicer thru it and thats very important to me. Of course all of this is subjective ... and as the amps creator said somewhere back in the posts..."the amp is only human"..love that

 

Zaj58

 

I was one of the early adopters of the SSv3. I now have two of them, as I routinely play in two different cities. Bar bands, mostly electric music at moderate volume.

 

For me, I had to learn the functional difference between a stage monitor, and a stage amp.

 

With a stage monitor, you're the only one who's listening, with a stage amp it's the rest of the band as well as the audience, especially if you're not running through the PA (often the case for me).

 

As a pure stage monitor, the SSv3 is not ideal -- you can't plop it under your boards, or 2 feet from your ears and easily get the sound you want. I will sometimes use a self-powered PA unit (or two) for pure stage monitoring. A QSC K10 or two is more than enough.

 

As a stage amp it rocks -- pure and simple. Plenty of volume, lots of dispersion and bloom, small and compact, better in most situations than a pair of self-powered PA units -- everybody hears everything, wonderful stereo, and it's not overpowering.

 

Yes, the AP sounds are the most challenging. What I've found is that success is largely based on three factors.

 

First, placement -- as far away from your ears as you can manage, and use the side-speaker-facing-down-on-a-stand approach.

 

Second, evaluate the mix, not the solo instrument. I'll do one thing ahead of the gig, and then find myself frantically adjusting knobs during the first few songs. I've figured it out now, but it took a while.

 

Third, be prepared to bias your piano voice selection towards the amp's strengths: more stereo content, maybe a bit of "sweetener" in a layer, etc.

 

Is it the holy grail? Not really. Is it the best amp solution for what I'm doing today? Definitely.

 

-- Chuck

[zaj58]

zaj58: Whenever I see a first response like yours to the SS, kind of a 'meh' response, I think that since the CPS sound blows me away (yeah, I'm one of those), I have a few suggestions: not to insult your intelligence but definitely run stereo to the amp - a single mono signal will sound like nothing special, but you probably know that since you have the MS. Leave about 5 or 6 feet between you and the amp; you can't really hear the stereo effect when it is close to you. I made this mistake for a few months! Put it a foot or two from a wall or corner so it can reflect some sound around the room. Experiment like you said. And the width control needs to be at about 12 o'clock or more to the right. I have put CDs and iPhone program material through mine and it makes room filling stereo. Even stereo TV sounds great. Good luck.

Well i had read enough of the posts prior to receiving amp to know a few of the "tricks" I did move the amp around to different locations and distances and of course I am patched in stereo. I really think this amp has a more dramatic effect on the players who have not been playing out of a stereo amp prior, unlike myself. As far as what someone hears 40 ft away in the audience... Im not all that concerned about that( of course i dont want anything to sound bad out there). I need to hear the best sound from my monitor so that i can play comfortably and inspired..please understand, im not in any way saying this is not a good little amp, and its going to make live keyboards sound about as good as they can from one little cabinet. I guess i was hoping that there would be something magical about it that would be the end all solution to having the sound I wish I could get live an I am really speaking about the AP sound..to be fair the MS isnt the "holy grail " either.. I just feel the AP's sound a bit nicer thru it and thats very important to me. Of course all of this is subjective ... and as the amps creator said somewhere back in the posts..."the amp is only human"..love that

 

Zaj58

 

I was one of the early adopters of the SSv3. I now have two of them, as I routinely play in two different cities. Bar bands, mostly electric music at moderate volume.

 

For me, I had to learn the functional difference between a stage monitor, and a stage amp.

 

With a stage monitor, you're the only one who's listening, with a stage amp it's the rest of the band as well as the audience, especially if you're not running through the PA (often the case for me).

 

As a pure stage monitor, the SSv3 is not ideal -- you can't plop it under your boards, or 2 feet from your ears and easily get the sound you want. I will sometimes use a self-powered PA unit (or two) for pure stage monitoring. A QSC K10 or two is more than enough.

 

As a stage amp it rocks -- pure and simple. Plenty of volume, lots of dispersion and bloom, small and compact, better in most situations than a pair of self-powered PA units -- everybody hears everything, wonderful stereo, and it's not overpowering.

 

Yes, the AP sounds are the most challenging. What I've found is that success is largely based on three factors.

 

First, placement -- as far away from your ears as you can manage, and use the side-speaker-facing-down-on-a-stand approach.

 

Second, evaluate the mix, not the solo instrument. I'll do one thing ahead of the gig, and then find myself frantically adjusting knobs during the first few songs. I've figured it out now, but it took a while.

 

Third, be prepared to bias your piano voice selection towards the amp's strengths: more stereo content, maybe a bit of "sweetener" in a layer, etc.

 

Is it the holy grail? Not really. Is it the best amp solution for what I'm doing today? Definitely.

 

-- Chuck

I do appreciate the insights Chuck and I understand the strong points of this amp for sure. I really am using my stage amp/monitor as a onstage monitor or to create the stage mix..Ninety five percent of the time my sound to the audience is in the hands of FOH.. Thats why what seems to be one of the strongest aspects of this amp , its ability to project and throw sound about the room is not as important to me.. I rarely need my stage amp to be my sole source of audio..I just want what I hear on stage to be sweet. Like when you hear these boards played thru quality studio monitors..yea i know, good luck with that.. and i have to be realistic. I also have 2 QSC's that i will use on some gigs. Having the QCS's and a MS500sn was about all i needed. That was my original point, I didnt think the SSV3 took the quality of using those other options to another level.. with that said the only thing I can say to my fellow players is that if you already have a stereo setup your using like a MS500sn or a couple of quality powered monitors and your relatively happy, the space station is not going to change much.. I may keep the unit just because of it's compact size and convenience..was thinking of doing smaller cabaret type gigs in the future w/ just me and a singer or small jazz combo.. I think it would be perfect for that. Great for an easy load in and setup..I will be playing with it a bit more before i decide to keep or not.

 

[jmolino]

Hi,

I do apologize if this has been asked and answered, however trying to go through 140+ pages and striking out on the search engine leaves me needing to post....

 

I'm trying to determine whether or not I should be panning my mixer's channels when I send the signal to the SS3.

 

I'll explain my setup a little more so as to avoid confusion....I have various sounds sources (including an HX3) going into an A&H MixWizard4 - with my main outs (L/R) going to the SSv3 (and a separate out going to a B1200d sub).

 

The MixWizard's channels are all mono, so I usually send 2 channels from from my sources to get a stereo signal. Normally with a 2 speaker setup I would pan each source L & R - but with the SS3 I'm confused...

 

(Also, I'm also using VST's on my computer which are coming into the mixer one of 2 ways - either via a USB return (stereo) to the USB port of the MW, or through a FocusRite Pro14 which sends L/R through 2 separate 1/4 outs into it's own set of channels. (I have more control this way as I can use the boards EQ instead of relying on EQ'ing from the computer as the USB return doesn't get board EQ ability).

 

So should I just leave Pan on center for my input channels and let the SS3 split the signal, or should I be panning my sound sources channels hard left and hard right?

 

Hopefully this makes sense.....

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

-John

[Raymb1]

Hi,

I do apologize if this has been asked and answered, however trying to go through 140+ pages and striking out on the search engine leaves me needing to post....

 

I'm trying to determine whether or not I should be panning my mixer's channels when I send the signal to the SS3.

 

I'll explain my setup a little more so as to avoid confusion....I have various sounds sources (including an HX3) going into an A&H MixWizard4 - with my main outs (L/R) going to the SSv3 (and a separate out going to a B1200d sub).

 

The MixWizard's channels are all mono, so I usually send 2 channels from from my sources to get a stereo signal. Normally with a 2 speaker setup I would pan each source L & R - but with the SS3 I'm confused...

 

(Also, I'm also using VST's on my computer which are coming into the mixer one of 2 ways - either via a USB return (stereo) to the USB port of the MW, or through a FocusRite Pro14 which sends L/R through 2 separate 1/4 outs into it's own set of channels. (I have more control this way as I can use the boards EQ instead of relying on EQ'ing from the computer as the USB return doesn't get board EQ ability).

 

So should I just leave Pan on center for my input channels and let the SS3 split the signal, or should I be panning my sound sources channels hard left and hard right?

 

Hopefully this makes sense.....

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

-John

 

I believe that Aspen suggested doing the hard left and right pan some months ago.

[ChrisDespo]

So should I just leave Pan on center for my input channels and let the SS3 split the signal, or should I be panning my sound sources channels hard left and hard right?

-John

 

John - I use a mixer as well (ditto lots of folks here) and send Left and Right from each of my keyboards to separate channels on my mixer, i.e. I send my Left from my Kurzweil to Channel 1 on my mixer and pan it left on the mixer main bus, send Right from Kurzweil to Channel 2 of my mixer and pan it right on mixer main bus, etc continuing same way with all my gear ... (I also use a harmonica mic that is mono and gets it's own channel and apply a slight bit of stereo reverb to it to provide the "SS juice" needed to fatten the sound) ...

 

Then I simply take the 2 main outputs (L/R) from my mixer and put them into the Left and Right inputs on the SS3 ...

 

This keeps the signals panned the way they should be coming from my gear and out of the SS3 ... there may be other ways to do it but this works for me and sounds like it's supposed to coming out of the SS3 ... hope this helps ...

 

Chris

[ChrisDespo]

I believe that Aspen suggested doing the hard left and right pan some months ago.

 

Ray beat me to it before I could hit send!