Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Aspen]

I have checked shipping USPS parcel "priority" and the on line price is about $ 220. This is based on a 42lb package @ 22x16x16 boxed.

I have recently shipped USPS to Germany for about the same rate and it seemed to work out fine.

 

I checked DHL because I myself shipped several items of gear to US, UK and other countries and never had an issue.

 

DHL from germany to US is EUR 68.- / USD 85,91 incl. EUR 500.- insurance, weight up to 20 kilos (42lbs boxed is 19.0512 kilos),- size: 120 x 60 x 60 cm.

 

22" is 55.88 cm

16" is 40.64 cm

 

So, it should be easy to get it over the pond for that price, even double boxed and with thick padding.

 

Premium service is EUR 131.99,- about USD 167.-

Insur

Hmmm, that IS a good rate, I had not checked out DHL but I will look into them next week.

 

 

 

[HAMEGZ]

 

IMHO the Keyboard designers include MANY mono options for this reason. Perhaps if CPS catches on, hint-hint, the KB designers will cut loose and give us more really interesting stereo patches!

 

 

Thank you as always for sharing your thoughts and observations dear friend.

 

I have not found a plethora of 'mono" patches in the various boards I have owned or own recently.

 

I hope others chime in to verify or deny, but this is what I seem to find.

 

1 The True Mono waveform patch, ie: an acoustic piano truly summed to center.

 

2 The Stereo Acoustic Piano with the bass section panned Left . and gradually shifting the sound field until you wind up with the

RH treble strings panned right.

 

3 A mono instrument with stereo effects, be it chorus, pan, ping pong, reverb, etc.

 

4 A Combi/object/etc which appear to be mono voices panned across the stereo spectrum. A drum kit is a good example with the snare Left, toms around the stereo spectrum, bass drum center, etc.

 

It seems to be that the manufacturers only include a handful of mono patches, and they seem to be acoustic piano.

 

Now having said that, ALL the scenarios I mentioned above sound

very good to excellent thru the V3.

 

Oh and I found a great deal on a TC Electronics Bass Guitar Amp

that now serves two purposes, as a stand for my SS and to add a little extra to the sound. I come out of the sub out and use just as little volume as necessary to achieve results.I don't have that muffled sound I had with the KCW-1.

[Al Coda]

Now having said that, ALL the scenarios I mentioned above sound very good to excellent thru the V3.

 

Excellent, thank you.

 

Oh and I found a great deal on a TC Electronics Bass Guitar Amp

 

Which one did you buy ?

 

A.C.

[HAMEGZ]

It is the BG250-112 like new at a pawn shop for $175 US.So not a retail find.

 

Two things like about it, it is very light weight and the controls and inputs are recessed,and the SS does not cover up the controls or inputs when sitting atop it.

[miden]

There is a retailer in the ACT here called Better Music, a big BIG store! (and I personally know one of the directors) who have their own staff techs. They have been known to import directly where there is no established distributor.

I really appreciate your information, I would love to find a way to get a dealer/service center Downunder...there is such a powerful music scene there that I would like to be apart of. Although, to be totally honest about service, after selling over 1,000 Spacestaions MK1 and SFX100, then later about 600 MK2 Spacestations...I didn't have a single warranty claim. That said, while my designs are "overbuilt" to error on the side of caution, damage can occur. Therefore I maintain a good stock of extra components so I can respond fairly quickly.

 

If you like, I can make an approach (as I said I am friends with one of the directors) to BM on your behalf to get the ball rolling. After which I can send you contact details (if they are interested) and then you can take it from there. In the meantime How would I go about buying one direct from you? Or would I be forced to go via the Sweetwaterroute?

[Reezekeys]

[...] I hope others chime in to verify or deny, but this is what I seem to find.

 

2 The Stereo Acoustic Piano with the bass section panned Left . and gradually shifting the sound field until you wind up with the

RH treble strings panned right.

Just to clarify something here a true close-miked stereo acoustic piano sample, when the left & right channels are panned hard left & right, will give a somewhat panned perspective - but this is nothing at all like what I used to have in my old Roland XP50's "Nice Piano" mono piano samples panned across the stereo field according to "key position." This in no way was "stereo." Your description kind of implies this type of pseudo-stereo imaging.

 

IMO, true stereo acoustic piano samples are for creating a full sensation of being inside a space not having different sounds come out of each side. This seems to be exactly what the SpaceStation amp is designed for and I would very much like to hear what my rig would sound like through one. I have to admit it would take a lot to tear me away from my two QSC K8s though!

 

And not to derail but I wanted to say something about Aspen's contention that "FOH is almost always Mono" In my experience touring the last year, playing large clubs, outdoor festivals and casinos, I've found the opposite to be true.

[RandyFF]

Pardon me if this has been answered already:

 

?1. How does the the sound hold up if you were to use (2) SSs v.3 as front of house? (with a sub or two of course)? Phase cancellations? Would they go on opposite sides of the room or simply be stacked on top of each other wherever it's convenient to place them?

 

?2. Is there a hole on the bottom for pole mounting?

 

?3. Is the strength of the bass or overall sound diminished if it's off the ground?

 

?4. What's the db spl?

[Al Coda]

"FOH is almost always Mono" In my experience touring the last year, playing large clubs, outdoor festivals and casinos, I've found the opposite to be true.

 

That´s correct, at least for me and since mid 80s already.

 

A.C.

[TimA]

Hi,

I wanted to add a few comments, because I have quite a bit of experience with sfx/cps.I own the ssmk1, mk2, and now the v3.I also own an sfx encoder, 2 large keyboard sfx cabs, Stereo QSC AMP W/ sfx encoder, 4 Fender sfx guitar and keyboard combos, so I am pretty familiar with the technology and a huge fan. I've always loved stereo imaging, and love sitting at the sweet spot in front of my keyboards between stereo speakers or listening in headphones. I was always disappointed that there was no delivery system of that beautiful imaging to a live audience. That was until Aspen came along of course! I was happy each step along the way with MkI then MkII. I realized the strengths and limitations of each. I was very sad when Groove Tubes stopped production and was kicking myself for not getting a back-up MkII and dreaded the day if it ever went south. After searching I found contact with Aspen and was delighted he was willing to communicate a few years ago. When late last year he told me he was bringing out the v3, I was ecstatic and couldn't wait, and after the initial delays were worked out, I finally got mine a couple of weeks ago.

I was pretty happy with the MkII, but I was using it less as a full blown PA/KB cab and more w/ rack mount effects, axe-fx etc. (which sound amazing by the way). After seeing Aspen market the v3 as a KB amp, I decided to experiment with different set-ups. My two KB's are Roland V-piano and Korg KronosX. I have been ABing the v3 with 2 Lucas Nano 300's set up in stereo in front of my keyboards. The LN's are fantastic full range speakers with a crystal clear response across the freq. spectrum.Both KB's sound like a million Euro's through them. After trying every combination of Lucas, v3, V- piano and Kronos, I would have to say there is no drop off whatsoever with the v3. For sub out, I am using a Phil Jones Suitcase w/ matching ext. cab making a nice stack w/ v3 on top. The Kronos has that crazy Karma built in, so when you hear the v3 send the drums,bass, and various key/synth combos filling the room with its 3D dispersion, it is absolutely breathtaking. The v3 is so punchy, and the various instruments are unmuddied and clear. What the v3 does to those drum/rhythm accompaniments is incredible. It feels like that kit is in the room with you.When I add some volume with the PJ Suitcase, it is " rocking down the house" time!! I can only play at moderate volumes in my 10 x 10 practice room, or that v3 would make me deaf. When Aspen said the v3 was a big improvement over MkII, like anyone, I had to hear it for myself. The MkII is not a bad little amp, but I clearly was not prepared to be so blown away!! With my LN 300's I experience a fantastic sound in that sweet spot, but the v3 elevates that to a room-filling dreamy 3D stereo experience. My last observation is that the Vpiano and Kronos sounded better split up, either one to either speaker, then the blend of the two keyboards is just crystal clear. Layering them in the same speaker system didn't divide out the individual KB's as well. It's like a really awesome wet-dry-wet/ guitarist trick that works phenomenally well with the Vpiano and a cool stereo layer like EP or clav. I think the applications with other amps/PA opens up a lot of amazing layering possibilities.

That's my 2 cents so far. Tim

[Aspen]

 

IMHO the Keyboard designers include MANY mono options for this reason. Perhaps if CPS catches on, hint-hint, the KB designers will cut loose and give us more really interesting stereo patches!

 

 

Thank you as always for sharing your thoughts and observations dear friend.

 

I have not found a plethora of 'mono" patches in the various boards I have owned or own recently.

 

I hope others chime in to verify or deny, but this is what I seem to find.

 

1 The True Mono waveform patch, ie: an acoustic piano truly summed to center.

 

2 The Stereo Acoustic Piano with the bass section panned Left . and gradually shifting the sound field until you wind up with the

RH treble strings panned right.

 

3 A mono instrument with stereo effects, be it chorus, pan, ping pong, reverb, etc.

 

4 A Combi/object/etc which appear to be mono voices panned across the stereo spectrum. A drum kit is a good example with the snare Left, toms around the stereo spectrum, bass drum center, etc.

 

It seems to be that the manufacturers only include a handful of mono patches, and they seem to be acoustic piano.

 

Now having said that, ALL the scenarios I mentioned above sound

very good to excellent thru the V3.

 

Oh and I found a great deal on a TC Electronics Bass Guitar Amp

that now serves two purposes, as a stand for my SS and to add a little extra to the sound. I come out of the sub out and use just as little volume as necessary to achieve results.I don't have that muffled sound I had with the KCW-1.

 

I bow to your greater experience on this, and I stand corrected! I must confess, I am a guitar player (and not a very good one at that). So frankly spoken, I am ignorant on the newer KB products (but I am catching up!). So most my "too many mono" observations probably stem from 12+ years ago when I first introduced the SFX100 and original Spacestation.

 

Now that you mention it, it does seem that KB patches have gotten much wider over the last dozen years, especially the Leslie sim stuff.

 

Specifically, had a chance to hear a NORD keyboard thru the V.3 last week end at the Amp Show in Van Nuys, man that was impressive. We will be adding a Nord demo to our CPS live demo site next week,as requested and try and show those requested patches too.

[Aspen]

If you like, I can make an approach (as I said I am friends with one of the directors) to BM on your behalf to get the ball rolling. After which I can send you contact details (if they are interested) and then you can take it from there. In the meantime How would I go about buying one direct from you? Or would I be forced to go via the Sweetwaterroute?

 

Honestly, I think this thread is moving in the wrong direction and that may be partly my fault. I really do NOT want to focus my replies on sales issues, so I'll start by stop discussing sourcing, pricing, terms and stuff. You guys are smart enough to find these solutions with out me spending valuable forum time on this...it just feels uncomfortable, sorry.

 

However, I am very comfortable discussing the technical points, and so many of your application comments, questions, speculations and explorations are stimulating for me, I can't thank you guys enough for that! As more systems get out there I think this forum will be my "applications manual"...you will know more about this than me in due time. I am just here to talk about the design physics, listen to your hands on comments, and try new stuff as you suggest. So THANK YOU for having me!

 

[zephonic]

@Aspen: are you (or is the SpaceStation) at the AES convention?

[Aspen]

"FOH is almost always Mono" In my experience touring the last year, playing large clubs, outdoor festivals and casinos, I've found the opposite to be true.

 

That´s correct, at least for me and since mid 80s already.

 

A.C.

 

I will not doubt you guys, I may be out of touch and so perhaps stereo PA is more common these days. However I used to do quite a bit of FOH mixing, 30+ years ago, and mono was the "safe" approach back then.

 

However, and assuming your are right (which I do), I still can't imagine how they get around the cancellation issues...the physics are still working against stereo in large venue systems, IE; the wider the L&R mix, the smaller the "sweet spot"...as in any listening environment.

I guess there may just be 2 schools of thought on that. Put me in he "old school" of thought on this one, at least for now, but I remain open to a change of mind and I will start walking around rooms more often in future. I will take my hat off to the new school guys if they found away to pull it off an get a consistent mix around the hall.

 

Interestingly enough, my comments stemmed from questions about my full range SUB out and it's possible dual purpose as a FOH send...as compared with other mono summing methods in use for this purpose. My point was only ha my L+R would be "as good" as doing this in your mixer.

 

However, if in fact stereo PA is the norm today, then I'd certainly advise sending the stereo signals from your KB mixer or a splitter to FOH, and bother with my SUB out. Then you give the FOH mixer the option to go "old school" and sum them for all to hear, or go "new school" and keep them wide.

[Aspen]

@Aspen: are you (or is the SpaceStation) at the AES convention?

I was there today, but only had about 3 hours. I made it thru most of it, saw so many old pals, wish I had more time!

I would have liked to "show" it there but can't afford that expense right now.

I thought about loaning it to an exhibitor like I do at NAMM, but that opportunity never presented itself.

However my APR studio is a half hour North and the welcome mat is always out.

[AnotherScott]

Dear Confused; I have been holding off more comment on this speculation of a L+R send to FOH "problem". I wanted some of you w/ the MK2 or the new V.3 to "chime" in on your experiences. From those of you CPS (and SFX) users the general consensus agrees with my findings; it ain't "Broke" (so nothing to fix).

...

In my experience working with CPS for 14 years now; the L+R sounds just fine, nothing seem to be "missing", that is UNTIL you turn up the Side level...then WOW, it really comes together nicely. Regardless, some will always speculate something might be missing in a hard L&R patch", but I have never observed a real problem with that in practice.

 

Maybe that is because in any Ping Pong, or Rhodes style Doppler panning effect, the signal passes Left to Right, then back again...THRU the "middle", so there is almost ALWAYS something there for the L&R...it doesn't just "drop out". At least not as I've heard.

So essentially the problem that I thought might exist kind of does exist in theory, but in practice, it just doesn't seem to happen, interesting!

 

Even for those of you who have in past summed a L&R to Mono in your mixers for a FOH send...I don't really think you've ever had a "problem" per se...

People have talked about phase cancellation issues when some stereo pianos are summed to mono (at least using "traditional" methods), while others are okay. I haven't dealt with this personally, though.

 

Interestingly, I found that there are MANY mono patches in most "stereo" keyboards today, for what I think is an obvious reason; 99% of all keyboard amps are MONO!

Oh yes, most stereo boards have plenty of mono sounds. But I don't think it's because of the amps... it's because the emulated sounds themselves are inherently mono. Most acoustic instruments (i.e. woodwinds and brass) are essentially mono point sources. Most classic keyboards were mono. The waveforms of a Minimoog (or any synth, including a modern one), the tapes of a mellotron, the pickups of a clav/rhodes/wurli, all mono. (Though the suitcase rhodes could pan the mono sound from side to side.) Even the Hammond organ is basically a mono source, being thrown around a room by the Leslie. So you can look at the Wave Data of most workstations, and you will see relatively few instruments with L and R wave sets... the vast majority of the rompler samples are mono, with acoustic piano being an obvious common exception, as it is typically mic'd left and right when sampled.

 

But as Ham&Egz basically said, boards are still full of stereo patches even though most of the underlying sounds are mono... primarily by virtue of processing the sound through a stereo effect, and/or by splitting/layering multiple sounds and placing them at different points in the soundfield. But if you are auditioning single programs/voices rather than combis, most of them will be mono unless they are being put through a stereo effect. Of course, reverb is a common stereo effect. ;-) But sometimes more dramatically, there will be the chorus, leslie effect, ping/pong etc. But it's no surprise that most individual sounds, before fx, are basically mono.

 

[Aspen]

 

?1. How does the the sound hold up if you were to use (2) SSs v.3 as front of house? (with a sub or two of course)? Phase cancellations? Would they go on opposite sides of the room or simply be stacked on top of each other wherever it's convenient to place them?

 

A1: If the room were long and narrow, then I would imagine best results would be centered at opposite ends. But if the room were square or wide, absolutely I'd stack them (top ont upside down). And of course as we have discussed, a sub for larger venues is recommended.

 

?2. Is there a hole on the bottom for pole mounting?

A2: No, on purpose. These surface mount accessories ar available, and can be attached to either end. IF you use a sub then I say; go for it. But I decided not to add the cost to my box...you can DIY if you like. Also, the center bottm and top balance point are internally challenged with a baffle board on bottom, and a handle on top!

If you do try the pole mounting approach, you will lose LF, no doubt, which would be fine if a sub is in tha picture. I also would suggest to pole mount it upside down..I have sceiling mounted several in small clubs and that seem sto work out best.

 

?3. Is the strength of the bass or overall sound diminished if it's off the ground?

 

A3, no doubt. The Side spk system has no cabinet to enhance LF, so placing it on the floor couples it and improves LF. If you want to hear it better, I like tilting it back in the corner so the Front speaker projects upwards but the Side still has nice LF coupling.

 

?4. What's the db spl?

 

A4: Well, I have to admit I do not have an exactlt "limit" on that...I alos guess it could depend on the source material and we have used it for so many applications.

That said, I'd safely call it "upper 90's", but remember it is definately NOT beamy...300 degree dispersion...so it measures high 90s everywhere in the room. So it sounds "big" even at low SPL, and really not uncomfortably loud at higher SPL. It really acts so different that conventional speakers it's hard to say.

I have seen cell phone apps that "measured" 100dB+ when I floored it, and somebody told me we hit that level at the Amp Show last weekend. But I really should do some scientific measurement in the near future and get back to you on that...you have inspired m now...I myself am curious where the "limits" lie!

[Aspen]

Dear Confused; I have been holding off more comment on this speculation of a L+R send to FOH "problem". I wanted some of you w/ the MK2 or the new V.3 to "chime" in on your experiences. From those of you CPS (and SFX) users the general consensus agrees with my findings; it ain't "Broke" (so nothing to fix).

...

In my experience working with CPS for 14 years now; the L+R sounds just fine, nothing seem to be "missing", that is UNTIL you turn up the Side level...then WOW, it really comes together nicely. Regardless, some will always speculate something might be missing in a hard L&R patch", but I have never observed a real problem with that in practice.

 

Maybe that is because in any Ping Pong, or Rhodes style Doppler panning effect, the signal passes Left to Right, then back again...THRU the "middle", so there is almost ALWAYS something there for the L&R...it doesn't just "drop out". At least not as I've heard.

So essentially the problem that I thought might exist kind of does exist in theory, but in practice, it just doesn't seem to happen, interesting!

 

Even for those of you who have in past summed a L&R to Mono in your mixers for a FOH send...I don't really think you've ever had a "problem" per se...

People have talked about phase cancellation issues when some stereo pianos are summed to mono (at least using "traditional" methods), while others are okay. I haven't dealt with this personally, though.

 

Interestingly, I found that there are MANY mono patches in most "stereo" keyboards today, for what I think is an obvious reason; 99% of all keyboard amps are MONO!

Oh yes, most stereo boards have plenty of mono sounds. But I don't think it's because of the amps... it's because the emulated sounds themselves are inherently mono. Most acoustic instruments (i.e. woodwinds and brass) are essentially mono point sources. Most classic keyboards were mono. The waveforms of a Minimoog (or any synth, including a modern one), the tapes of a mellotron, the pickups of a clav/rhodes/wurli, all mono. (Though the suitcase rhodes could pan the mono sound from side to side.) Even the Hammond organ is basically a mono source, being thrown around a room by the Leslie. So you can look at the Wave Data of most workstations, and you will see relatively few instruments with L and R wave sets... the vast majority of the rompler samples are mono, with acoustic piano being an obvious common exception, as it is typically mic'd left and right when sampled.

 

But as Ham&Egz basically said, boards are still full of stereo patches even though most of the underlying sounds are mono... primarily by virtue of processing the sound through a stereo effect, and/or by splitting/layering multiple sounds and placing them at different points in the soundfield. But if you are auditioning single programs/voices rather than combis, most of them will be mono unless they are being put through a stereo effect. Of course, reverb is a common stereo effect. ;-) But sometimes more dramatically, there will be the chorus, leslie effect, ping/pong etc. But it's no surprise that most individual sounds, before fx, are basically mono.

Great detailed reply, points taken! And that does a better job of explaining my "too many mono" observations. Perhaps I am just focused on finding those wide stereo patches because my SS V.3 really LIKES them!

[Al Coda]

 

I will not doubt you guys, I may be out of touch and so perhaps stereo PA is more common these days...

 

Interestingly enough, my comments stemmed from questions about my full range SUB out and it's possible dual purpose as a FOH send...

 

It´s all good !

 

Me personally, I don´t care if the PA is mono or stereo.

In fact it doesn´t interest me at all and it´s the domain and task of the PA crew and FOH engineer.

There are much more options, even large stereo monitor systems while most are mono and have to deal w/ 2 or 4 busses only.

And Pink Floyd was quatro ...

 

I´ve seen a lot incl. that scenario the sound was s##t even the PA was mono.

 

In fact the biggest mistake engineers made running mono was, they took the stereo signal somewhere from the keyboard rig, may it be from kbd-sub-mixer or from amps inputs via DI, ran to the FOH console and made it MONO there, ignoring mono incompatibility of stereo FX, built-in or from rack devices.

 

No one knew until we listened to live recordings where the keyboards of both keyboardplayers sounded horrible.

OTOH, I had live recordings w/ keyboards running in stereo which sounded significantly better but might have not been ideal for the average listener in the audience though.

Who knows ? I´m,- eventually fortunately,- not the one sitting in the audience.

 

 

 

However, if in fact stereo PA is the norm today, then I'd certainly advise sending the stereo signals from your KB mixer or a splitter to FOH, and bother with my SUB out. Then you give the FOH mixer the option to go "old school" and sum them for all to hear, or go "new school" and keep them wide.

 

Exactly and amen !

I´d use a splitter when going stereo und I´d use a small sub delivering a mono-full range LINK signal.

That way I can offer both.

 

I think the little Alto TS Sub 12 might be great.

 

 

It has all the connections, especially mono in (stereo too) and HP-filtered (for standard hi/mid satellites) as well as unfiltered mono and stereo LINK-outputs to the PA.

So, going mono into the Alto TS Sub 12 results into an unfiltered mono-out signal to the PA because YOU made the wise decision leaving your "sub-out" signal a full range one.

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

This may have already been mentioned here somewhere, but does using the Sub Out also engage a filter to take the lows out of the SpaceStation itself?

 

(A nice enhancement would be to have this switchable... filter the lows out of the Spacestation when using the Sub Out for a sub or other "local" amp, or leave the SS' bass intact when you're using the Sub Out to feed FOH.)

[Al Coda]

This may have already been mentioned here somewhere, but does using the Sub Out also engage a filter to take the lows out of the SpaceStation itself?

 

(A nice enhancement would be to have this switchable... filter the lows out of the Spacestation when using the Sub Out for a sub or other "local" amp, or leave the SS' bass intact when you're using the Sub Out to feed FOH.)

 

I wondered about that too.

A switchable 125 Hz HP filter for both the center- and side- woofer amp´s inputs would be ideal and take some load from the amops and speakers when a sub is connected.

 

But actually I cannot imagine how that worked when there´s no switch visable at the backpanel.

The "sub-out" connector, which could act like a switch, doesn´t know what you do w/ that signal once you plugged in a cable.

If it did,- w/ a cable plugged in for PA or Sub,- your SSV3 always had the filter engaged,- right ?

 

A.C.

[miden]

Honestly, I think this thread is moving in the wrong direction and that may be partly my fault. I really do NOT want to focus my replies on sales issues, so I'll start by stop discussing sourcing, pricing, terms and stuff. You guys are smart enough to find these solutions with out me spending valuable forum time on this...it just feels uncomfortable, sorry.

 

However, I am very comfortable discussing the technical points, and so many of your application comments, questions, speculations and explorations are stimulating for me, I can't thank you guys enough for that! As more systems get out there I think this forum will be my "applications manual"...you will know more about this than me in due time. I am just here to talk about the design physics, listen to your hands on comments, and try new stuff as you suggest. So THANK YOU for having me!

 

Interesting response. And certainly an about-face on previous statements. Anyhoo, it's your box, you can do what you like.

[B. J. Love]

This may have already been mentioned here somewhere, but does using the Sub Out also engage a filter to take the lows out of the SpaceStation itself?

 

There's no mention of it in the current brochure, but the MK2 had a 100Hz filter that automatically engaged when the sub output was connected.

[HAMEGZ]

Honestly, I think this thread is moving in the wrong direction and that may be partly my fault. I really do NOT want to focus my replies on sales issues, so I'll start by stop discussing sourcing, pricing, terms and stuff. You guys are smart enough to find these solutions with out me spending valuable forum time on this...it just feels uncomfortable, sorry.

 

However, I am very comfortable discussing the technical points, and so many of your application comments, questions, speculations and explorations are stimulating for me, I can't thank you guys enough for that! As more systems get out there I think this forum will be my "applications manual"...you will know more about this than me in due time. I am just here to talk about the design physics, listen to your hands on comments, and try new stuff as you suggest. So THANK YOU for having me!

 

Interesting response. And certainly an about-face on previous statements. Anyhoo, it's your box, you can do what you like.

 

 

I think he said he would be happy to discuss off forum via email or PM those points.

 

Perhaps he doesn't want to violate any TOS by discussing sales, and he just initially got caught up in the excitment

[PianoMan51]

I've noticed a repeated highly positive comment from those who have the SpaceStation: other musicians on stage say they can hear the keys better. I hypothesize that this is because there is a second speaker aimed right at them, so they're hearing direct sound from the 6.5" speaker rather than reflected sound from the back of the room or the ceiling. If that's true, then I have some questions.

 

First, what's the frequency range of the L-R speaker? If I remember correctly, low frequencies cancel easily from a suspended speaker. And most full range speakers use a coax cone, which I doubt will radiate in both left and right directions. I'm guessing that the frequency range is mostly mids.

 

Second, I'm wondering if and how vocals work in this approach. For me there are many gigs I do in which a 2 or 300 degree spread would be advantageous. Vocals are mono and they only come out of the front facing L+R speaker. To get vocals to come out of both speakers what needs to be done? Stereo reverb/early reflections/delay?

 

Last, I found some pictures of the old SFX Satellites from Groove Tubes. These have two speakers mounted facing each other for the L-R. What's the difference between a single speaker and two for this application?

 

OK, my 'inquiring mind' wants to know.

[Aspen]

I think he said he would be happy to discuss off forum via email or PM those points.

 

Perhaps he doesn't want to violate any TOS by discussing sales, and he just initially got caught up in the excitment

 

Exactly! Thanks for understanding.

[Aspen]

I've noticed a repeated highly positive comment from those who have the SpaceStation: other musicians on stage say they can hear the keys better.

1st off, it is true your fellow musicians DO hear the Keys better than ever, because CPS delivers 300 degree dispersion. but it is NOT just coming from the side facing speaker alone. CPS technology is not like any conventional speaker you have ever used, these speakers are out of phase so they create their own reflections off each other and dramatically increase their dispersion, so musicians on both side do hear Front signal!

 

First, what's the frequency range of the L-R speaker?

Well, that really doesn't matter. Because both primary speakers were computer "modeled" in their acoustical environments, much like the design approach with modern near field studio monitors. That means we measure their FR (in place) and apply corrective filters. This is one of the big difference b/w the V.3 and earlier SFX Spacestation versions.

Just imagine the acoustical challenges of a 8" co-ax Front speaker cramped in such a small enclosure, even with a precisely tuned port, how to get more bass? Then imagine a 6.5" full range speaker, but without ANY enclosure AT ALL! You could not have more dreadful acoustic challenges. But when you use FFR computer modeling it gives you a detailed FR "curve", so then you can apply several orders of filters to straighten all that out and also remove the peaks and valleys. We spent about a month on just this....lots of trial and error, and more measurements. Dr. Marshall Buck from Psycho Acoustics led our team (mostly me) on this design effort and we nailed it! Many have commented it sounds like a studio monitor, and that is not by accident!

 

Second, I'm wondering if and how vocals work in this approach. For me there are many gigs I do in which a 2 or 300 degree spread would be advantageous. Vocals are mono and they only come out of the front facing L+R speaker. To get vocals to come out of both speakers what needs to be done? Stereo reverb/early reflections/delay?[

Exactly, I like a bit of Hall Reverb, doesn't drastically change the tone of your vocals but give energy to the Side, which in turn increases the dispersion of the Front, as I mentioned above. I know all this sounds like strange science, but it works! In any event, you just have to hear it...then you will understand.

 

Last, I found some pictures of the old SFX Satellites from Groove Tubes. These have two speakers mounted facing each other for the L-R. What's the difference between a single speaker and two for this application?

 

OK, my 'inquiring mind' wants to know.

Well, I personally think two speakers on the bottom can be better, but when you model them anyway that extreme acoustical difference b/w Front and Side speakers is compensated. I used one speaker on this smaller version for several reasons; cost, weight and simplicity. In my earlier versions, those issues were second to my goal of "ultimate", and they are powerful "big brothers" to the V.3, but if I had done modeling on those systems...wow, look out!

But I do like to raise eyebrows and when folks see the two facing 12" speakers in my S12 or any of the G3 or K3 Pro versions I used to make. Of course the 2x12" facing speakers are themselves wired "out of phase", so one pushes as the other pulls...but they take twice the power and as the lower Side system has to compete with a 1x12" in a Thiel enclosure that helps balance them out. You may be surprised to know that most open frame speakers sound about the same and produce almost the same energy on BOTH sides of the frame!

 

But again, in this very compacted powered stereo monitor V.3 design that uses computer modeling, we balance them out in a much more effective way. And so we kept an extremely small footprint, but we carry a Big Stick!

[Aspen]

This may have already been mentioned here somewhere, but does using the Sub Out also engage a filter to take the lows out of the SpaceStation itself?

 

There's no mention of it in the current brochure, but the MK2 had a 100Hz filter that automatically engaged when the sub output was connected.

 

Right, there is no mention for several reasons, 1) there isn't one, and 2) because we now are tri=amped in the Front speaker we avoided IMD (intermodulation distortion) in a much better way so this is not necessary anymore, and 3) we wanted to provide a full range Sub so it could also be used as a Front (L+R) booster option, like setting the V.3 on top of a powered PA cab and then pumping up it's Side to balance.

[PianoMan51]

Thanks Aspen for the detail reply!

 

There's another keyboard player on this forum in my city and he's ordered one and I can't wait to hear it!

 

Meanwhile I still wonder about real speaker specs like top SPL, continuous and peak!

 

And frequency response, +/-3db of BOTH the front and side speakers!

 

It's just that I've never ever EVER bought a speaker, in the past, without knowing these kinds of specs!

 

Maybe I don't need these details because the psychoacoustical properties of the human brain interact with the mid-side speaker in new ways that seem MAGICAL!

 

My inquiring mind wants to know!

 

(Okay, I'm having fun with your marketing persona. I've been there and done that myself. If and when I buy one I'll come back on and eat crow, with pleasure.)

[niacin]

Miden, sent you a PM.

 

There is a retailer in the ACT here called Better Music, a big BIG store! (and I personally know one of the directors) who have their own staff techs. They have been known to import directly where there is no established distributor.

I really appreciate your information, I would love to find a way to get a dealer/service center Downunder...there is such a powerful music scene there that I would like to be apart of. Although, to be totally honest about service, after selling over 1,000 Spacestaions MK1 and SFX100, then later about 600 MK2 Spacestations...I didn't have a single warranty claim. That said, while my designs are "overbuilt" to error on the side of caution, damage can occur. Therefore I maintain a good stock of extra components so I can respond fairly quickly.

 

If you like, I can make an approach (as I said I am friends with one of the directors) to BM on your behalf to get the ball rolling. After which I can send you contact details (if they are interested) and then you can take it from there. In the meantime How would I go about buying one direct from you? Or would I be forced to go via the Sweetwaterroute?

[Aspen]

Hi gang, hoping this will not seem like a shameless selfl promotion, but rather a great time I had at last weekend's Amp Show in Van Nuys demoing a 5 piece live band playing thru a single SS V.3. Some of you had asked for some Nord action...so here it is.

 

Notice in the later minutes I show one curious player the speaker w/o the sub (this was on Sunday because on Saturday as Jazzmammal had reported we actually forgot to plug in the sub all day, for lack of a RCA to 1/4" phone cable!)

But what you may find even more interesting, I follow that "sans sub" demo with a new trick; turning the whole band down with a single fader on the $150 Alesis Multi8 mixer (a club owner's wet dream). I lower the V.3 system level to a whisper, and to a "voice over" level so I can address the "crowd in my natural voice (no mic!), and yet the band stays mixed and never loses a beat.

 

The camera's compressor kicks in, so you really do not notice the level dropping so drastically, but it did! But then you hear me speaking (sans mic) and realize I am louder than the band in my natural voice!

 

NOTE: there are only a few dozen show attendees in the room during some of these, but later we had SRO for this performance (the camera had shut off by then) so maybe 150+, but I still I had more headroom on the V.3!

 

Here it is:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7yJWzDKDXE