Dry organ with Vent

[MarKeys]

I keep trying to reimagine my setup and came to this idea: since I have a Vent and tend to play pretty simple classic rock organ, are there any keyboards like the px-3 or others that allow a good selection of dry clean organ sounds so I can use them through the Vent? Or do those cheaper boards always have some sort of Leslie effect going on? I'm starting to like the idea of a good feeling keybed for EPs, with fairly good organ sounds that will become much better using the Vent. Or am I dreaming again??

[High Diving Act]

Roland VR700

[AnotherScott]

I keep trying to reimagine my setup and came to this idea: since I have a Vent and tend to play pretty simple classic rock organ, are there any keyboards like the px-3 or others that allow a good selection of dry clean organ sounds so I can use them through the Vent? Or do those cheaper boards always have some sort of Leslie effect going on?

The Leslie effect is almost always a defeatable DSP/insert effect. So almost any board with organ patches should let you do this.

 

A more complicated part is what to do if you want to split (or layer) organ with some other sound. If you don't want both sounds going through the Vent, you need a keyboard that can send different sounds out different output jacks, if nothing else, at least by panning one sound to one side and the other sound to the other side. But if you only play one sound at a time, that's not an issue.

 

Another issue is the kinds of organ sounds you're looking for. A couple of decent plain organ sounds can be found on lots of boards. Things get tricker if you want to get beyond the straight drawbar sound. Like, do you care about Chorus/Vibrato, and do you want to be able to switch it? Do you care about having (and being able to adjust) things like key click and leakage? Do you use percussion controls? And speaking of percussion, some of the rompler-style boards don't handle percussion well... if it's there at all, it may be impossible to get it to behave as it does on a real Hammond, as a single trigger effect that doesn't happen when you're playing legato. Whether this matters to you depends on the kinds of sounds you use and how much of a purist you are.

 

I'm starting to like the idea of a good feeling keybed for EPs, with fairly good organ sounds that will become much better using the Vent. Or am I dreaming again??

The actions that feel best for EP aren't the best choice for organ, but if your organ playing is pretty basic, that may not matter to you.

 

What price range would you be looking in? Is travel weight an issue?

[MarKeys]

Chorus and vibrato are nice but expendable for me. Would like at least half a dozen organ sounds (first three drawbars out, first and last, etc) to get a good variety of sounds. But I'm playing in a bar band with loud guitars, so to be honest, some of the nuances of real hammond playing don't apply for me. I've had moments of going to the other extreme and getting a nord E4, but part of me feels it's overkill for my purposes. That's why I wondered about a lightweight (that's important) board with solid EPs and AP, and the Vent could make the OK organs sound much better.

[Baldwin Funster]

Get a voce micro bii for $200.00 . Sounds great with a vent. personally I thought it sounded better than the V5+ when I had it. No drawbars on that unit but about 30 presets. Percussion and chorus are decent, again better than the V5+.

[MarKeys]

Oh, for budget, if I did this cheap route instead, I'd be aiming under a thousand. Like I said, I'm going back and forth between the best solution and one that's essentially as good but cheaper.

[Steve LeBlanc]

There are lots of options for less than $600

[MarKeys]

Which options would you suggest if I'm mostly looking at Wurly, AP, Rhodes, clav and organ?

[HammondDave]

Be careful. If the board uses samples then the Tremelo speed could result in so'e pretty nasty phase shifting.

[AnotherScott]

I'm starting to like the idea of a good feeling keybed for EPs, with fairly good organ sounds that will become much better using the Vent.

lightweight (that's important)

Oh, for budget, if I did this cheap route instead, I'd be aiming under a thousand.

Which options would you suggest if I'm mostly looking at Wurly, AP, Rhodes, clav and organ?

I think my first choice, all things considered, would be Kurzweil SP4-7. After that, Casio PX-5S.

Behind that, maybe Yamaha MX61, Korg Krome 61, Roland VR-09. Everything is a compromise somewhere. But I think the Kurz strikes the best balance for your purposes. Casio would give you the better piano action (and neither is a good organ action), but for the sounds you want, I think the Kurz equals or betters the Casio for each.

 

[Kevmo]

Afaik the Casio organ is unusable and not a clone wheel.?

[AnotherScott]

Afaik the Casio organ is unusable and not a clone wheel.?

Correct that it is not a clonewheel. The OP's premise is that he does not necessarily need a clonewheel, if the board has some organ presets in it that allow him to disable any built-in rotary effect and send the organ patch out to his Vent instead. I believe the PX-5S can do that.

[Joe Muscara]

There are a number of videos by Mike Martin and Max Templa demonstrating the Casio XW and the PX-5S with the GSi Burn. Here are some links I've found. The OP can run the PX-5S without any built-in Leslie effect.

 

 

 

[MarKeys]

Saw there's a Mox8 available locally for $900. Thing is, every time I look at one of these sort of cobbled together solutions, part of me says the Nord is just an easy solution where I wouldn't have to fuss or keep wondering, if that makes sense. I know some of you don't like the HP, but in theory it might suit my needs. Biggest problem is not being able to try it before buying.

[Delaware Dave]

Which options would you suggest if I'm mostly looking at Wurly, AP, Rhodes, clav and organ?

Have you considered the Nord Electro 2 rather than the more expensive NE4?

[MarKeys]

I actually have the original electro updated to the electro 2. But the band I'm in has been adding more songs with piano parts, so the electro 2's mediocre pianos and the SW action got me looking for a change. Also thought I might want to sell the one I have while there's still life in it. And if I get a pricey 4, was hoping it would retain value in case I end up not liking it after a while.

[Delaware Dave]

I actually have the original electro updated to the electro 2. But the band I'm in has been adding more songs with piano parts, so the electro 2's mediocre pianos and the SW action got me looking for a change. Also thought I might want to sell the one I have while there's still life in it. And if I get a pricey 4, was hoping it would retain value in case I end up not liking it after a while.

Got it. You mentioned this earlier:

 

"..I've had moments of going to the other extreme and getting a nord E4, but part of me feels it's overkill for my purposes.."

 

Perhaps the NE3 is the way to go; you'll have an upgraded organ with drawbar manipulation (the Nord C1 organ) plus an upgraded piano which should get you away from the NE2 mediocre piano. This wouldn't be overkill and a used NE3 shouldn't overkill your budget either.

[cphollis]

The Nord Electro 4 is a huge upgrade from the Electro 2 in my opinion. It has the same piano voices and instrument samples as the Nord Piano 2, Stage 2, etc. The drawbars are nice, too. Very upgradeable thanks to the vendor's web site.

 

Had an Electro 3 for a while -- very reasonable board -- I'd agree with the above comments.

 

I love my E4 and play out with it at almost every gig -- you can get a lot done with 61 keys!

 

That being said, you still have the problem with both the E3 and E4 of non-organ voices running through the Vent, as everything goes through left(mono) and right. Although I found the on-board sim more than adequate for my humble purposes, and ended up selling my Vent. Heresy, I know. And, of course, the E4 can only make one sound at one time: you can only split organs, no layering, etc. But a great sound!

 

To get exactly what you want from the Nord portfolio, you'd have to step up to the Nord Stage 2, which has assignable outputs. And that's big bucks. Plus, you'd have to decide if you wanted a weighted piano action or an unweighted synth/organ action.

 

Decisions, decisions ...

[AnotherScott]

That being said, you still have the problem with both the E3 and E4 of non-organ voices running through the Vent, as everything goes through left(mono) and right.

Check the OUTPUT ROUTING setting. You can send organ to the left out, and pianos/samples to the right. You also have the option of sending the Farfisa/Vox organs either way.

[cphollis]

Jeez, you're right. I went and checked the Electro 3 manual, and that's exactly what you can do. Maybe I should make a point of re-reading those manuals more often

[B3bluesman59]

I use a PX-3 primarily for my solo piano gigs....and it does have a couple of pretty good organ "tones" that would sound really good thru a Vent....and the leslie effect can be turned off on the PX3. When I do gigs with my full band I use my SK-1 73....sounds really good.

[Bossbandbob]

If you have a Vent with the stereo mod and trs Y cable you also can bypass the Vent's rotary effect and run your board's other patches in stereo. I used to do this at practices with my Casio WK-7500, on which I created several dry organ patches.

[MarKeys]

Thanks, that's all very good food for thought. So the wk7500 you use strictly for practice. Wouldn't be good enough for gigs I take it?

At this point I'm really tempted to be reckless and jump at an NE4 HP, even knowing I'll either love or hate the action (hoping for that impossible in between feel that will make piano more satisfying than on my NE2 SW, but not so heavy that I can't so my simple organ parts.

[Bossbandbob]

Thanks, that's all very good food for thought. So the wk7500 you use strictly for practice. Wouldn't be good enough for gigs I take it?

I thought it was for a little while until I tried a PX -5s and switched to VB3 for organ.

The piano action and tone and organ tone on the WK-7500 IMO are inferior to the above. Some of the other voices are pretty good on the WK and very tweakable and its arranger features are fun. Lightweight and 76 semi weighted keys for piano after I tweak and add ext EQ works for me for band practice, particularly since I have developed forearm tendonitis.

[B3bluesman59]

I thought it was for a little while until I tried a PX -5s and switched to VB3 for organ. The piano action and tone and organ tone on the WK-7500 IMO are inferior to the above.

_________________________________________________________________At $450 new the WK 7500 does fine...but certainly cannot compete with the above named boards costing far more.