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VB3-II is getting closer...


TKN

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Guido has posted this on Facebook (Google Translate):

 

"Today we celebrate! I managed to complete my first 64-bit plugin! For Windows, of course ... then for Mac will be another battle ... The VB3-II is getting closer"

 

 

 

 

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Guido has posted this on Facebook (Google Translate):

 

"Today we celebrate! I managed to complete my first 64-bit plugin! For Windows, of course ... then for Mac will be another battle ... The VB3-II is getting closer"

Great news, I wonder if the 64 bit version will result in an upgrade of the Mojo motherboard and OS.

MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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It's not close enough before it's installed on my MacBook..! I'm loving the Burn though - tomorrow we're going to the first rehearsal together! :)

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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Axiously awaiting the mac version.....disappointed to hear that the Windows version is coming first.

 

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Axiously awaiting the mac version.....disappointed to hear that the Windows version is coming first.

I'm not surprised, though.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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I wonder if the 64 bit version will result in an upgrade of the Mojo motherboard and OS.

The 64-bit version would be valuable to people otherwise running a 64-bit system, but in a system dedicated to running nothing but VB3, I'm not aware of any benefit to running a 64 bit version. So regardless of whether such an upgrade to the Mojo would be feasible, I think the question would be, why bother? Or am I missing something?

 

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Is that 64-bit processor model or 64-bit audio? Probably the former.

 

Programs compiled for 64-bit processor model tend to run faster. That may seem odd, because the programs are bigger (mostly due to bigger pointers), but the reason is simple: the 64-bit processor has lots more internal registers so the compiler can optimize the code more.

 

But since VB3 is pretty lightweight anyway, there'd be little benefit from upgrading an existing system that's working fine (unless Guido also rolls in other features he's been planning).

 

Other than the performance benefit (which for a DAW overall looks like 10% to 20% improvement, according to Steinberg), the main benefit to 64-bit plugins is so that you can run all your plugins in the same new model.

 

I won't be moving to 64-bit model any time soon, simply because I use a few dinosaur plugins that will never be upgraded to 64 bits. I run my DAW and my live host in 32-bit mode and it all works just fine.

 

Oh, the other benefit to 64-bit mode would be for some uber-sample set that takes so much memory the DAW needs to access more than 3 or 4 GB of memory. Of course, this would only be the case if streaming from memory rather than from disk, but streaming from memory allows lower latency.

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I wonder if the 64 bit version will result in an upgrade of the Mojo motherboard and OS.

The 64-bit version would be valuable to people otherwise running a 64-bit system, but in a system dedicated to running nothing but VB3, I'm not aware of any benefit to running a 64 bit version. So regardless of whether such an upgrade to the Mojo would be feasible, I think the question would be, why bother? Or am I missing something?

Hah -- that's the short and sweet version. No, unless there are other (unrelated) features added, there'd be no point.
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I wonder if the 64 bit version will result in an upgrade of the Mojo motherboard and OS.

The 64-bit version would be valuable to people otherwise running a 64-bit system, but in a system dedicated to running nothing but VB3, I'm not aware of any benefit to running a 64 bit version. So regardless of whether such an upgrade to the Mojo would be feasible, I think the question would be, why bother? Or am I missing something?

Hah -- that's the short and sweet version. No, unless there are other (unrelated) features added, there'd be no point.
I can think of one point - availability and cost of components. At some point, it will be cheaper and/or easier for them to use 64-bit hardware instead of the current stuff. I have no idea nor any guesses when that will be, though.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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I wonder if the 64 bit version will result in an upgrade of the Mojo motherboard and OS.

The 64-bit version would be valuable to people otherwise running a 64-bit system, but in a system dedicated to running nothing but VB3, I'm not aware of any benefit to running a 64 bit version. So regardless of whether such an upgrade to the Mojo would be feasible, I think the question would be, why bother? Or am I missing something?

Well one set of code to maintain and enhance, which for a small developer is a significant time saver and the cut down version of XP that is used in the Mojo is now several iterations behind the current version of Windows. Both the switch to 64 bit and an upgrade to a custom Win 8 OS would provide reduced latency.

 

However these may not be noticed by the user as VB3 is highly stable and efficient in its current 32 bit form and latency does not appear be an issue.

MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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Jeff, don't forget also that x86_64 has PC-offset jump instructions which x86 lacks for some bizarre reason...depending what you're doing, that can make a bigger difference than register count. I would expect that being able to jam a float into a register is a real win for VB3 too.

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Jeff, don't forget also that x86_64 has PC-offset jump instructions which x86 lacks for some bizarre reason...depending what you're doing, that can make a bigger difference than register count. I would expect that being able to jam a float into a register is a real win for VB3 too.
I would be very surprised to find that offset-jump has a bigger impact on performance than the ability to use registers to carry intermediate data rather than having to push it to memory, even though that would generally be L1 cache. We're not just talking about a few registers, but several times as many.

 

To avoid compatibility issues, x86 has been frozen to a definition from the 80's. The x86-64 was a chance to get all the stuff folks have been wanting (in addition to 64-bit addressing) in one batch.

 

But there's no doubt that jumps with short offsets help reduce the code size and speed up processing. I'm not too surprised it was missing in x86. As it was, they were pushing the boundaries of what they could fit on silicon at the time. It didn't even have a simple (singe) instruction to access memory though a pointer, for goodness sake! I never wrote assembly code for x86, though I did ROM-mon-debug x86 C-compiled code. At one point I did attempt to write simple "peek" and "poke" functions in assembler, and was amazed at the hoops I had to jump through (in the 80's). Ack, what a horrid architecture. x86 was not chosen for its elegance!

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I wonder if the 64 bit version will result in an upgrade of the Mojo motherboard and OS.

The 64-bit version would be valuable to people otherwise running a 64-bit system, but in a system dedicated to running nothing but VB3, I'm not aware of any benefit to running a 64 bit version. So regardless of whether such an upgrade to the Mojo would be feasible, I think the question would be, why bother? Or am I missing something?

Well one set of code to maintain and enhance, which for a small developer is a significant time saver and the cut down version of XP that is used in the Mojo is now several iterations behind the current version of Windows. Both the switch to 64 bit and an upgrade to a custom Win 8 OS would provide reduced latency.

 

However these may not be noticed by the user as VB3 is highly stable and efficient in its current 32 bit form and latency does not appear be an issue.

 

Well, it is not really one set of code to maintain. Programming in C (or Apple's Objective C) or assembly language is very different for each, as are the development environments. What is common is the pseudocode.

 

And 64 bits is not going to reduce latency - that is not the cause. And as others have said, there are probably no benefits in terms of sound. Generally the biggest benefit you get from 64 bits is a much larger address space. This is not going to make a difference to a modeled VB3.

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What the **** are you guys discussing..? :) I thought this thread was about VB3-II... but sure - if I ever want to learn about the advantages of 64-bit, in depth, I know where to go... :wave:

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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