rickzjamm Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Gotta love this forum. You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 How 'bout putting a Yamaha upright's guts into ol' Betsy? This got me to thinking. I wonder if anyone has ever actually done this? Can you go down to Pep Boys and buy a conversion kit with motor mount adaptors and a new bell housing, lift the hood and just drop in the new innards? I can see someone with an awesome-looking, but unplayable Steinway in their living room attempting this. Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You guys obviously know far more about this stuff than me, but it seems like everybody's saying not to do it without any indication as to what's actually wrong with it. What if it could be good with a little regulation, maybe a little hammer work, and replacing a couple pins? I mean obviously if the sound board us bad, and likely if the strings need to be replaced, then probably not...but has anybody established that? Does saying it needs to be "rebuilt" imply certain things, and if so, how does the OP know it needs a rebuild and not just some fixing up? Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Lester Betsy Ross spinet. That's at least three things you can't fix right there. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You guys obviously know far more about this stuff than me, but it seems like everybody's saying not to do it without any indication as to what's actually wrong with it. What if it could be good with a little regulation, maybe a little hammer work, and replacing a couple pins? I mean obviously if the sound board us bad, and likely if the strings need to be replaced, then probably not...but has anybody established that? Does saying it needs to be "rebuilt" imply certain things, and if so, how does the OP know it needs a rebuild and not just some fixing up? I said I think there is no harm in seeing what it would take and cost before you decide. How 'bout putting a Yamaha upright's guts into ol' Betsy? This got me to thinking. I wonder if anyone has ever actually done this? Can you go down to Pep Boys and buy a conversion kit with motor mount adaptors and a new bell housing, lift the hood and just drop in the new innards? I can see someone with an awesome-looking, but unplayable Steinway in their living room attempting this. Highly unlikely. Every piano manufacturer does things differently. The first things I would consider would be the plate and the soundboard/bridges. What are the chances the good ones would fit in the old case AND be mountable reasonably well? It goes from there. That said, there are a number of "stencil" brands all made by the same manufacturers, so it's possible that you could swap parts between them, much like Chevy Nova, Oldsmobile Omega, Pontiac Ventura, and Buick Apollo. I have no idea if the OP's piano is one of these, though. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Highly unlikely. Every piano manufacturer does things differently. The first things I would consider would be the plate and the soundboard/bridges. What are the chances the good ones would fit in the old case AND be mountable reasonably well? It goes from there. It would be a massive hack for sure. But hey, if they can make one of these... Honk Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 ...much like Chevy Nova, Oldsmobile Omega, Pontiac Ventura, and Buick Apollo. Interesting choice of examples Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 ...much like Chevy Nova, Oldsmobile Omega, Pontiac Ventura, and Buick Apollo. Interesting choice of examples Notice what the model names spell. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 That's the issue... $$$$$$$$$. There's also a sentimental value to it, it's the piano I learned to play on...it's an old friend. It has sat at the same church since I was a kid putting hours of practicing into it & a couple of months ago I heard through the grapevine that the church was going to get rid of it. When I went to the church they said haul it off & it's yours. It looks to me to be beyond repair but one guys trash is another guys childhood memory. It is probably not beyond repair. It really depends on what needs to be done and what the cost will be. If it has sentimental value, then that's worth a lot, imo. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickzjamm Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Thanks Jim & grooving on your "Dirty Fingers". It's like that silly family picture that means nothing to anybody else but is your treasure that connects you to another time & place... it's where your musical journey began and makes you smile. You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have an upright in the basement. It was a wedding present when it was new to my great grandmother. It has great family sentimental value, but it will never be what it once was. A total rebuild would just not be feasible and a good result, not guaranteed. "I cried when I wrote this song Sue me if I play too long" Walter Becker Donald Fagan 1977 Deacon Blues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al the Piano Guy Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Interesting topic, and enough to get me to come out from lurk mode. At 61 and with the kids out of the nest, my wife and I will be looking at downsizing in the future. We have a lot of stuff to get rid of. One of the items will be the mid-1930's Kimball "Consolette" sitting in our living room. My mom's pride and joy, the piano I learned on, and many more sentimental et-ceteras. I agree the cost would be too great and benefits (for me) just too few. It is in bad shape, and will eventually go "where pianos go to die". Recall the thread from sometime last year on this? This is similar to another situation: "Where do old church pews go to die?" What's similar is that changing times have changed the cost and demand for these kinds of objects. The 100+ year old church I attend remodeled its worship space 2 years ago and replaced the oak pews with modular chairs. The pews couldn't be given away and sat in a shipping container parked out-back for several weeks... until they connected with an artist who took them and re-purposed the oak. Does anyone know if this is what the piano grave yard guys are doing? Are the wood and veneers of the case, sounding board, etc. of any value as material for re-purposing? My reason for asking is that when the time comes to part, this idea will please me far more than knowing that the Kimball just went to a landfill. Al, the Piano Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickzjamm Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 As Director of Music at my church I come in contact with a lot of other churches "upgrading" from old uprights, grands & organs to the digital era. Part of me feels an abandonment to the musical sacred past but another part of me totally gets it. As a wise sage on this forum so notably proclaimed... "Pianos are like circus elephants. They're a lot of fun to play with, but they're big, heavy, and require a lot of attention." Bitter sweet yet classic statement, like old Betsy. You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I cry when I think of all the Brazilian rosewood square grands in piano hell. Lots of ivory and ebony too. I wouldn't care as much about a 1930s Kimble. I was very attached to the 45" Gulbransen I grew up on. My grandmother bought that for my mom during the Great Depression. It sat in a couple of feet of water for a day or two during hurricane Carol just before I started beating on it. The only value it had was the sentimental value. In the '70s I put on a new bass bridge, tightened up the sound board where the ribs came loose and where the board came unglued at the bottom, new hammers ... made it the best it could be, which wasn't that hot. My time would have been better spent doing something else. I was glad to see it go. I was grateful that it went to ay least one good home before going to piano hell. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Ward Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I have an old Lester upright piano Betsy Ross edition in real bad condition & the tuning will probably never be what it was in it's glory days. I'm thinking of turning it into a piano shell to hold a Roland RD700GX but my wife says try to have it rebuilt... what does the mighty & wise forum think? it wouldn't be mobile but I figured in my home studio it'd be kinda cool. So do I. I spent ~$500 bucks to repair/restore it. It didn't help. I've thought about doing the same thing, as I've done this previously with another piano to house my Nord at church (see the "Fake Stage Furniture Cases" thread). But this one has some sentimental value, as it used to belong to my grandpa and I have lots of memories of him playing it when I was younger. I will probably end up relegating it to a furniture piece because of that, and try to find a better upright once I have the space for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickzjamm Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Saw your pics Ross & that's exactly what I want to do. The sentimental factor outweighs the logic factor that says send the old beast to the piano netherworld, ... do you have your process documented with pics & such? You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I cry when I think of all the Brazilian rosewood square grands in piano hell.OT, but on TV I recently saw the inside of a square grand for the first time. I'd seen them haunting corners of old hotels or whatnot and had even played a few, but like any pianos that are there for character rather than music, they left a lot to be desired. I always wondered what was inside and how they worked. On a NC public TV program they were talking to folks who have a piano restoration business (my wife saved the episode for me to see, knowing I'd be interested). I had to stop, rewind, and play over the three seconds where they showed a square grand with the top off, playing the keys. I think the harp was missing too, so the hammers just shot into the air like they do on a grand action when you pull it. The damn keys are short on the bass end, and long on the treble end! Imagine trying to play that with nuance and sensitivity! Looks like they try to balance it out by using long hammers on the bass end and short ones on the treble. Here's a pic: http://www.amadeuspianos.com/square%20grand%20piano%20keyboard.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickzjamm Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Interesting. You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 A friend of mine had one (a square grand) years ago and I found it physically unpleasant to play - almost like it was fighting me. I briefly owned a "birdcage" action upright and it didn't like me either. Weird. I usually establish some sort of rapport with any acoustic piano I encounter. Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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