To gut or not to gut an old piano

[rickzjamm]

I have an old Lester upright piano Betsy Ross edition in real bad condition & the tuning will probably never be what it was in it's glory days. I'm thinking of turning it into a piano shell to hold a Roland RD700GX but my wife says try to have it rebuilt... what does the mighty & wise forum think? it wouldn't be mobile but I figured in my home studio it'd be kinda cool.

[Joe Muscara]

The money you would spend to have it rebuilt would not be something you'd likely get back if you were to sell it. IOW, if you want the piano for the rest of your life and it's worth the cost to you, then rebuild it.

 

Also, there are many levels of work you can have done on it, with the costs to go along with them.

 

I think there is no harm in seeing what it would take and cost before you decide.

[davyyd]

I looked into having my old Baldwin upright rebuilt. We have a local guy who does it (Grand American Piano), and it was fascinating when he looked over my piano and described what should be done. Unfortunately, the price estimates went up and up and up! I really wish I could afford to give Clint my business; he's a master and I love his craft. For less money I bought a new grand.

[Jazz+]

It's cheaper to buy a new Yamaha upright then have an upright rebuilt. Rebuilds are very unpredictable and often have poor results and are VERY expensive. Not recommended, IMO. Yamaha makes the only decent uprights, IMO. Unless you want to spend $20k or more.

[hurricane hugo]

How 'bout putting a Yamaha upright's guts into ol' Betsy?

[piano39]

It's cheaper to buy a new Yamaha upright then have an upright rebuilt. Rebuilds are very unpredictable and often have poor results and are VERY expensive. Not recommended, IMO. Yamaha makes the only decent uprights, IMO. Unless you want to spend $20k or more.

 

I respectfully disagree. I am in the same boat as the OP. The estimate to rebuild my ancient upright is $3500. My piano tech recommends that I buy a good used piano. I checked out used Yamaha U1s, 35 year old U1s go for $3500. A New U1 is over $7000.

 

Also, there are several good upright brands out there, not just Yamaha. Frankly, I was very disappointed in the sound of a new U1- sounded very brittle to me. I was told to check out Kawai K5, or a Charles Walter, or a few other brands.

[rickzjamm]

That's the issue... $$$$$$$$$. There's also a sentimental value to it, it's the piano I learned to play on...it's an old friend. It has sat at the same church since I was a kid putting hours of practicing into it & a couple of months ago I heard through the grapevine that the church was going to get rid of it. When I went to the church they said haul it off & it's yours. It looks to me to be beyond repair but one guys trash is another guys childhood memory. So I'm leaning towards the taxidermy route and putting a digital piano inside & save the keys for framing (they're real old, cracked & yellowy - very vintage cool looking). I'll post when done.

[Outkaster]

I wouldn't do it. I would tune it or rebuild it if you can. A lot of tuners say to get Yamaha uprights, they are consistent after all but it depends on what you want to do. Sentimental value is huge. I am the same way the piano I took lessons on.

[Jazz+]

90% of upright re builders are disappointing in the end. Finding a master re-builder, which there are very few of and hard to find or even know of, and you might get an okay one. The really good result re-builders often charge double or triple the average rate because they rerally do a good job which is a rare thing. And upright technology sucks in general and thus the rebuilds really suck. The vast majority of re builders produce very mediocre results. They do it because it pays and 90% of the customers don't know what they are getting. A $3,500 re-build will get a very low grade result, imo.

 

There are good discounts on new Yamaha uprights, but you have to be quite clever to find them.

[JeffLearman]

I respectfully disagree. I am in the same boat as the OP. The estimate to rebuild my ancient upright is $3500.

In that case, your upright must not need very much rebuilding.

 

There isn't an industry standard for what "rebuild" means, which makes sense because you should only do what needs to be done. However, doing some things dictates needing to do others.

 

For example, if your strings are fine but the soundboard is shot, you'll still need the piano restrung after replacing the soundboard.

 

For $3500, I assume you need some action rebuilding and restringing but this is the piano's first restringing so the old pinblock (with new, bigger pins) will work. If you're getting much more than that, then you're getting an amazing bargain. (It also depends on the amount of action work required. I'm guessing keeping the old hammers and refinishing them.)

 

Finally, big harp uprights are a lot easier to work on. Smaller consoles and spinets are a PITA to get at the parts, so can be more expensive but worth less to bother with since they sound like consoles and spinets at best anyway.

 

I'm not familiar with that brand of piano, but unless it's a particularly nice one, it's probably not worth rebuilding. If you want a good acoustic upright, I suggest watching CL for one someone's getting rid of that needs attention but not a rebuild, and ignore consoles and spinets.

 

I'll be interested to hear what our resident piano techs like Wayne and Jim have to say. As much as I hate destroying something of value, my guess is that there's really little value left in this upright.

 

On the other hand, if you're fussy and patient, you might want to take a shot at pulling your action out and seeing what you can do yourself. Last year I got a "rescue" Steinway M for a lowball price (cheaper than the rebuild mentioned above). The action was in terrible shape: many keys would go down but not come up or come up slowly. With advice from Wayne I lubricated the action centers and did a couple other minor tuneups and now it's a pleasure to play (but still needs soundboard work, unfortunately).

[humannoyed]

Hate to say it but....gut it.

 

However, leave the metal frame. Chain and lock your small personal safe to the metal frame in the compartment below the keyboard. You now have the safest location in your house for your valuables.

 

.... until you ditch it and buy that grand.

[wmp]

Rebuilding a spinet piano is pure insanity. An old Acrosonic recently went through my local shop for a bass bridge cap, restringing, and some action work. I couldn't help asking... WTF? Sentimental value. A good rebuilder may do this for you and take your money, but he will also tell you that you're out of your [emphasis] mind.

 

Same with most uprights. I've never played a Steinway upright that I liked, new, rebuilt or otherwise. Especially when you can have a Yamaha in every room for the same money. Rebuilding and refinishing costs about $20k+. Not worth it unless you have a Steinway, Mason Hamlin, Bechstein, or similar grand.

 

It's not worth having any piano rebuilt unless you know who's rebuilding it. I've played over a dozen awesome rebuilds at my local shop this year. No dogs, except for the Jack Russell terrier. They're real good.

 

Pianos are like circus elephants. They're a lot of fun to play with, but they're big, heavy, and require a lot of attention. I thought I wanted one earlier this year (a piano, not a circus elephant), but I've found that it's much cheaper, easier, and better to play a variety of other people's pianos instead.

 

I'd take a picture of ole Betsy, wave goodbye, and get an ironing board for the Roland stand.

[Doerfler]

It's cheaper to buy a new Yamaha upright then have an upright rebuilt. Rebuilds are very unpredictable and often have poor results and are VERY expensive. Not recommended, IMO. Yamaha makes the only decent uprights, IMO. Unless you want to spend $20k or more.

 

I paid $3300 for a barely used Kawai 52" upright locally. I'll put it up against a Yamaha U3. It's a joy to play.

[Doerfler]

Rebuilding a spinet piano is pure insanity. An old Acrosonic recently went through my local shop for a bass bridge cap, restringing, and some action work. I couldn't help asking... WTF? Sentimental value. A good rebuilder may do this for you and take your money, but he will also tell you that you're out of your [emphasis] mind.

 

Same with most uprights. I've never played a Steinway upright that I liked, new, rebuilt or otherwise. Especially when you can have a Yamaha in every room for the same money. Rebuilding and refinishing costs about $20k+. Not worth it unless you have a Steinway, Mason Hamlin, Bechstein, or similar grand.

 

It's not worth having any piano rebuilt unless you know who's rebuilding it. I've played over a dozen awesome rebuilds at my local shop this year. No dogs, except for the Jack Russell terrier. They're real good.

 

Pianos are like circus elephants. They a lot of fun to play with, but they're big, heavy, and require a lot of attention. I thought I wanted one earlier this year (a piano, not a circus elephant), but I've found that it's much cheaper, easier, and better to play a variety of other people's pianos instead.

 

I'd take a picture of ole Betsy, wave goodbye, and get an ironing board for the Roland stand.

 

great post Wayne. After a year of searching, I finally have my first signature.

[Michael Wright]

Upright rebuild= http://www.netanimations.net/Moving-picture-money-to-burn-animated-gif.gif

 

[wmp]

... I finally have my first signature.

Typo and all.

 

I fixed that in my post. Feel free to do the same.

 

Thanks for giving credit. I've meant to bust brother Tim's cookies for using one of my quotes for his signature without attribution. Language abuse is probably the only intellectual capital I have. It is arguably my intellectual property, but I tend to lose that sort of argument.

 

 

[CEB]

It would probably be easier to build a shell from scratch that gut the piano. But it could be cool. Zac Brown Band uses a spinet shell for the Nord.

[Joe Muscara]

Language abuse is probably the only intellectual capital I have. It is arguably my intellectual property, but I tend to lose that sort of argument.

You know, I've started collecting quotes from you. This is one for the list.

[David Loving]

Use it as a shell for the nord - that would be a statement of your continued learning to today. Get another upright. That's what I would do. I had sold my old spinet, the one I learned on, and always regretted it. When we had the room, I bought an identical spinet that I still play.

[Doerfler]

... I finally have my first signature.

Typo and all.

 

I fixed that in my post. Feel free to do the same.

 

Didn't realize it was a typo. Many of us talk like that in the DC area, so I found it normal, if not grammetically correct.

[The Real MC]

Upright pianos are marketed as economic alternatives to grand pianos. That means many corners are cut and their used market value isn't even close to renowned grand pianos. You will very quickly reach the point of diminishing returns when restoring an upright piano, especially the older lesser known brands.

 

The market is flooded with upright pianos that owners can't even give away. That is money better spent.

 

My folks still have the piano I learned on, but it has no sentimental value to me. I do want a piano but I want a Steinway M because they sound great for a small grand piano.

[wmp]

Typo and all.

 

I fixed that in my post. Feel free to do the same.

 

Didn't realize it was a typo. Many of us talk like that in the DC area, so I found it normal, if not grammetically correct.

Sorry. Mom was an English teacher. She wouldn't like that one. I talk like that too. Mom didn't like a lot of what I had to say. Serves her right for buying a house in da hood.

 

[jogger]

Most used Lesters I've tuned had low to no torque in the pinblock. I was informed that at the factory drilling of the pinblock was done too quickly crushing the woodgrain. No way would I recommend rebuilding a Lester spinet or console.

[JeffLearman]

I thought I wanted one earlier this year (a piano, not a circus elephant)

Well darnit. I just found a great deal on CL for a gently used elephant in great condition and was going to give it to you.

[rickzjamm]

Yeah, probably money better spent on the next big thing or that Tundra Crewcab I've been eyeballing. So put the RD700 on an ironing board, eh?

[wmp]

I can't remember exactly why I hated them so much, but that's probably a big part of it. I was going to suggest using it for trebuchet ammo instead of a stand.

[wmp]

I thought I wanted one earlier this year (a piano, not a circus elephant)

Well darnit. I just found a great deal on CL for a gently used elephant in great condition and was going to give it to you.

If they can deliver on 1/31 in the morning and crane it through the window, I'll take it. It's a present for my former landlord.

[JeffLearman]

 

"Abandoned property: one elephant, two broken sustain pedals."

 

[wmp]

Do they have two?

[Brettymike]

I thought I wanted one earlier this year (a piano, not a circus elephant)

Well darnit. I just found a great deal on CL for a gently used elephant in great condition and was going to give it to you.

If they can deliver on 1/31 in the morning and crane it through the window, I'll take it. It's a present for my former landlord.

 

WMP , I have found the crane to deliver the piano to your landlord >

 

Brett