Need advice re: stand and powered speaker

[Dr88s]

I am rethinking my current set up and would like to upgrade some of my gear. I would like some input and advice from you forumers who have probably used a lot of different gear. I thought I would bundle my questions into one thread rather than starting multiple threads on the same day.

 

A little about me:

 

I play in a classic rock / pop cover band. I play a korg m50 (lower) for most piano / EP sounds and a new Roland VR-09 (on top) for organ, synths, and pads. Very happy with this combination for my needs.

 

1. Stand

Until now I have played sitting down but aside from the terrible stage presence that sitting gives off, I've recently experimented with standing up and I love the feeling. I feel much more connected to the other musicians. For now I have a two-tiered Hercules Z at home and a three-tiered Quick-Lok X at rehearsal space, using only the top two tiers. I am a firm believer in getting used to one's setup and i don't want to keep switching from one stand to the next. I woud ideally like a new portable stand with two adjustable tiers. I love that both the Ultimate Apex-48 and the K&M Spider Pro recess into the column itself which can be carried as its own case in one pretty flat piece. When people have asked about these two before, the K&M seems to get the overwhelming nod here on the forum. I've never seen one locally. I did look at an Ultimate Apex 48 locally yesterday and wasn't crazy about the position of the front legs, which seem to go where my pedals would. My questions are:

i) The K&M costs ~$100 more than the Ultimate, even more when factoring in local Quebec taxes. Is there anything majorly better about the K&M which mertis the 100 more price tag?

ii) Anyone with the Ultimate Apex - do you have any problems with pedal positioning?

 

2. Amp / Monitor / Speaker

Currently I'm playing at home through a Roland KC (300 I think). Whie I don't want to run a chainsaw through it, I find it less than satisfying sonically and it's also pretty massive and heavy and takes up more room in my office / music room than it's worth. At my band\s rehearsal space, I've been playing through a stereo Yamaha PA (not sure which model - it\s not mine - but looks like one of those Stagepas deals...) I have come to really like hearing myself in stereo and my bandmates love the stereo and would not want me to go mono. I would like something new at home that is a) considerably smaller than my KC b) sounds better, c) could be used as a monitor at a gig if I needed one (not currently, though), and d) won't break the bank. I'm thinking ~$500ish

Most of the folks here seem to say that a powered PA speaker is much better than a keyboard amp, so that I which way I am leaning.

As much as I love the stereo, I don't necessarily have room for 2 powered speakers at home, and, given my budget, if I tried to acquire two speakers for that price, I would probably have to really compromise on sound quality.

I have seen many endoresements here for the QSC K8/10 and more the EV Zx1a. These are in the $700-800 range locally and don't seem to come up used around here often. Are there any other, less expensive alternatives?

I know that in many music circles Behringer is a four letter word. The B208D and B210D, however, are in enough of a price range that I could pick up a pair, have my stereo, and stay within budget. Anyone have any firsthand experience with these?

 

Thanks for input in advance.

[B3bluesman59]

You can get a JBL 515XT powered speaker (15" model) for under $500 new online. You will have plenty of power and it weighs just 32 lbs. I have two of these and have had no problems. JBL also has a 510XT model (10" speaker) online at $399 and weighing 17 lbs. Behringer makes an excellent monitor, the B212D, for around $225. I use one in my music room and also for rehearsals or jams....plenty loud and just 22 lbs.

[J. Dan]

I've been all over the place with stands over the years. A-Frame, to Apex, to X stand to V stand, back to X stand, to Standtastic, and finally back to my old trusty Apex.

 

Keep in mind I have the original Apex - I don't know how it compares to the new Apex 48. The reason why I went through all those others was that my top-tier board had to be tilted due to the shape of the bottom of that board (an Alesis Fusion). Since my Kronos sits well on a level tier, I'm back to the Apex. In terms of pedals, I use the small square sustain pedals and they sit at just about the right place for me backed up against that bottom leg. I put my volume pedal far enough out to the right that it misses the end of the leg and I angle it in towards me. Have to reach out for it just a bit, but it works well for me - YMMV. So I'd say the biggest things to consider are if you need tilting tiers and if you can make your pedal arrangement work with it. I've not found another stand that sets up and tears down as quickly and easily and is as compact and portable when torn down. I also use the mic boom attachment though I added a longer boom.

 

For monitors, at that price, the Behringer is the only option I'm aware of. Some folks on here like them.

[Dr88s]

I will look into the 510XT. I think the 15 inch and even the 12 inch speakers are overkill for my needs, and would just be unnecessarily heavy to schlep around.

Thanks for the reply.

[Dr88s]

JustDan,

 

I really liked the apex. It was so easily adjustable and seemed to tear down in seconds.

 

My sustain pedal is pretty big, but only because I bought an m-audio with a reversible polarity switch to be able to use with any of my various keyboards/controllers. I think I should take your lead and buy the small square ones in terms of saving space. I presume that I could find them in either polarity / open-closed?

 

I hope someone with the Behringer monitors chimes in. I have one of their practice amps and don't like it at all, but then again it is a cheap entry level model. I am using one of their Xenyx mixers as my main keyboard mixer and have had no problems with it.

[churchkeybob]

I've been using an Apex 48 for a while now and I like it. Folds up small and fast. I do have to put my sustain pedal sideways, however I got used to it that way. ~BOB

[Michael Wright]

Keep in mind I have the original Apex - I don't know how it compares to the new Apex 48.

I have both and don't find a lot of difference, other than the shape of the column.

My old on came with 2 13" arms, the new one with an 18 and a 13.

[Fusker]

Test drive one of these, I've had mine a few weeks and it's been fantastic for the $$.

 

EV ZLX-12

[J. Dan]

Keep in mind I have the original Apex - I don't know how it compares to the new Apex 48.

I have both and don't find a lot of difference, other than the shape of the column.

My old on came with 2 13" arms, the new one with an 18 and a 13.

 

they used to have the apex and the apex pro - the pro had the longer arms for one tier, or you could buy a kit to get teh longer arms. I have the longer arms on my lower tier.

[theGman]

I play standing and use a Spider Pro with 2 keyboards, in my case a Jupiter 50 and an Electro 3 73. The amp I use is a K10, either as a monitor or for the whole thing if necessary.

The Spider stand folds up neatly and I carry it around without bothering with a case. I mean, the stand is after all a stand, so what's there to protect? It is light enough so my just holding it in about the middle is good enough to carry.

The K10 is fine, but I'm sure there are just as good powered speakers for less $$$.

I have a little (I forget the exact name) monitor about the size of a loaf of bread with a mike stand which I use when the K10 is for FOH.

 

I have no problem with this setup; it is versatile and quite lightweight, using the K10 as FOH or not at all, and the little one as "personal" monitor. I have a foldup stool barstool height which is there, just incase I want to sit down a bit later on in the gig evening.

 

[uncledunc]

Check out the "stand construction thread" near the end. I've been using the Roland KS12 stand for over 20 years now and can't imagine why anyone would want something different. Its height and width are adjustable and it folds up in 5 seconds. (Set up only takes 3 seconds. Add 30 if you're clamping on second tier brackets.) There's all kinds of room for pedals, since the space between the four legs is unobstructed. I did have to jerry-rig my second tier, but if you've got a jig saw (with a metal-cutting blade) or a hack saw and a drill, and you can find the same style of clamp-on brackets I found 20 years ago, you're good to go.

[drawback]

 

According to Roland's specs, the KS-12's maximum height can only be just under 30" too low for standing, unless you're...

 

http://img1.browsebiography.com/images/gal/6312_The%20Dave%20Clark%20Five.jpg

[Dr88s]

I will have to try find the ZLX12 locally. Problem is, it's hard to 'test drive' these under controlled conditions...

[Dr88s]

I play standing and use a Spider Pro with 2 keyboards, in my case a Jupiter 50 and an Electro 3 73. The amp I use is a K10, either as a monitor or for the whole thing if necessary.

The Spider stand folds up neatly and I carry it around without bothering with a case. I mean, the stand is after all a stand, so what's there to protect? It is light enough so my just holding it in about the middle is good enough to carry.

The K10 is fine, but I'm sure there are just as good powered speakers for less $$$.

I have a little (I forget the exact name) monitor about the size of a loaf of bread with a mike stand which I use when the K10 is for FOH.

 

I have no problem with this setup; it is versatile and quite lightweight, using the K10 as FOH or not at all, and the little one as "personal" monitor. I have a foldup stool barstool height which is there, just incase I want to sit down a bit later on in the gig evening.

 

The k10 has a great reputation but seems pricey for just the one, especially in the midst of my personal GAS crisis.

[Dr88s]

Check out the "stand construction thread" near the end. I've been using the Roland KS12 stand for over 20 years now and can't imagine why anyone would want something different. Its height and width are adjustable and it folds up in 5 seconds. (Set up only takes 3 seconds. Add 30 if you're clamping on second tier brackets.) There's all kinds of room for pedals, since the space between the four legs is unobstructed. I did have to jerry-rig my second tier, but if you've got a jig saw (with a metal-cutting blade) or a hack saw and a drill, and you can find the same style of clamp-on brackets I found 20 years ago, you're good to go.

 

I am the least handy person you will ever meet; I wouldn't even be able to distinguish a jigsaw from a hacksaw.

[Dr88s]

According to Roland's specs, the KS-12's maximum height can only be just under 30" too low for standing, unless you're...

 

http://img1.browsebiography.com/images/gal/6312_The%20Dave%20Clark%20Five.jpg

 

About 6'2" and all leg. That ain't gonna work for me...

[t9cstudio]

As for the Behringer monitors, I use 2 B205d types for stereo mounted on my top tier rails in the back with right angle boom mounts. Puts the speakers right in front of you, so you don't need so much power to hear yourself over the damn bass player. Light and easy setup too. If your top tier is too high, though you might inadventently hide yourself from the audience.

 

[NeedMoreBass]

Check out the EV ELX112P.

[uncledunc]

According to Roland's specs, the KS-12's maximum height can only be just under 30" too low for standing, unless you're......

 

MIne goes to 35", which would be do-able for a tall guy. You'd want to angle the bottom keyboard up a tad to get the proper wrist angle and have the top keyboard level, which gives the audience a better view of the performer. I did drill an extra adjustment hole in mine, and I'm using only one set screw instead of two, which might explain the difference in max height - or they may be making the legs shorter. It has been 20 years...

 

The KS12 stand is expensive, but the pluses outweigh the minuses for me - unobstructed foot room, instant setup, and it's stackable on a loaded rock n' roller dolly. Plus you can easily mount a one-space rack mixer on it if you so desire, and the mixer is protected by the legs when it's folded up. It doesn't get any more pro than that, at least in my book.

[lsj]

if you are looking for a two tier, try Standtastic. reasonably priced, once you set it up to you specs(infinitely adjustable for size and height)easy set up and breakdown. more sturdy than apex column. packs into very compact bag.

[Losendoskeys]

You need a Solidstand if you can find it - I have one!

 

[video:youtube]

[J. Dan]

I have to respectfully disagree on the standtastic. I bought one after reading positive reviews on this forum and had great hope. I ended up using it less than a year and did not like it at all for the following reasons:

 

1) It has a huge footprint. Often, stage conditions are cramped for the keyboard player as it is. I had to completely change where I normally set up at several places with this stand due to the footprint.

2) It's just awkward in setup/teardown, and of the stands I've owned, took the most time and effort of any of them. You have limbs flopping around, have to deal with thumbscrews (assuming you didn't lose one along the way). Once you manage to get it in the bag, the location of the handles is off center making them useless - you have to just tuck the bag under your arm. The whole thing in the bag is very long. This stand is not light. Transprt was no walk in the park. In less than a year, the double zipper broke and one end of the bag started getting a hole.

3) The tier arm depth adjustment wouldn't stay. There's a rivet right in the position most people (I would think) would want to set the tier. If you adjust it to one side or the other of the rivet, it's ok. But for me, that was either too shallow or too deep. It never held my keyboards in place, one side would break loose and my keys would end up weird angles and I'd be trying to readjust and tighten back down, but the thumbscrew would already be all the way in.

4). I cut the shit out of my hands a few times. Those threaded rods sticking out all over end up being a hazard for your hand in setup/teardown. I had bloody keys on several occasions.

5) You better make sure the wing nuts are tightened down so they don't back off in transit, because if you lose one you're screwed. Also, I eventually lost almost all of the rubber end caps.

 

On the positive side, it does offer the most adjustment in tier angle and relative height so you can keyboards relative positions exactly the way you want, and the floor is clear for pedals. Those were the only advantages as far as I could see.

[JeffLearman]

Get one powered PA speaker now, and save up to get another one when the budget allows. I doubt you'll regret that.

 

Test drive one of these, I've had mine a few weeks and it's been fantastic for the $$.

EV ZLX-12

That looks like a great speaker and an attractive price. But I sure wish they'd learn to put the handle where it belongs, on the end. It makes it a lot more convenient when carrying two, and quicker/easier to pick up and put down.

 

I have speakers made both ways (handle on end, handle in middle), and every time I move the handle-in-middle one, I'm annoyed at the handle location.

[J. Dan]

I like that the K10 has both handles.

[Dr88s]

"Get one powered PA speaker now, and save up to get another one when the budget allows. I doubt you'll regret that"

 

 

That is good advice and the way I am leaning.

[Dr88s]

You need a Solidstand if you can find it - I have one!

 

[video:youtube]

 

Really doesn't look compact when torn down. Pretty hard to tell from the video, though... Have a small sedan (not a van) and space is at a real premium with two boards in the trunk.

 

On another note, huge Genesis fan here. PM me if you guys are ever over in my neck of the woods.

[Dr88s]

I have to respectfully disagree on the standtastic. I bought one after reading positive reviews on this forum and had great hope. I ended up using it less than a year and did not like it at all for the following reasons:

 

Ouch. Sounds like the antithesis to what I consider the ideal.

[Dr88s]

Update for those interested:

 

I found a K & M spider locally. It looks and feels just like the Apex 48. The major difference is the tetrapod legs versus the tripod. This allows for much easier pedal placement. I think that alone may justify the extra hundred dollar price tag. I will be ordering one soon. Thanks for your input!

[Dr88s]

I'm reviving my own zombie thread because since I've posted it, On Stage has joined the fray and released a column type stand to compete against the Apex and the Spider.

 

http://onstagestands.com/products/view/119498

 

I've found a good deal on this. Before pulling the trigger I was wondering if anyone had experience with On Stage stands. The only product of theirs I own is a universal second tier for X-stands which never worked well.

 

Any input is appreciated. Thanks.

[theGman]

Since I have a Spider Pro stand, I figure you might want some comparison feedback which might not be noticed without owning one of the two stands...

 

Looks like a nice stand. FWIW, I noticed that it looks like the legs interfere more with pedal placement that the Spider. Probably not a factor. (I don't have my stand handy to check)

 

Also, and I could be wrong here, but judging from the short video and the pictures, I can't tell if the arms are adjustable in length or fixed; also again, I wonder if the upper arms angle down or remain always parallel to the lower arms. Are there any ends on the arms? If they don't have ends, that might be because the arms remain normally level with the floor??? (and therefore parallel)

 

I like the way the legs fold up in the stand, but to be honest the Spider's legs fold up decently anyway.

 

I do find the angled upper arms, and the adjustable length on all 4 arms handy for my setup.

 

Small points, but I thought any input might help you make a more informed decision!

 

Hope this helps a little,

 

Paul