VR-09 Hints and Tips

[AnotherScott]

I really like my VR09, but only because I could not swing financing for a Nord Stage2. Ive only had a few minutes in the music store with Nord, but I think those sounds are superior to the Roland. My opinion is you might be disappointed in the VR09's EP's and especially the AC Pianos as a replacement for your Nord.

He may not be as disappointed, though, because he's comparing to a Nord Electro 2, rather than a Nord Stage 2, so the pianos and organs he's used to aren't NS2 quality either.

[Kevmo]

I really like my VR09, but only because I could not swing financing for a Nord Stage2. Ive only had a few minutes in the music store with Nord, but I think those sounds are superior to the Roland. My opinion is you might be disappointed in the VR09's EP's and especially the AC Pianos as a replacement for your Nord.

Our bassman had to bail on our last set this weekend, so I had to go heavy with the left hand. A Fantom X7 is below my VR09 on a two-tier X-stand...the Fantom's bass, while not quite as expressive, had WAY more oomph and kicked much harder than the VR09's. To be fair, I had the VR split so no effects were applied to the Combo's bass. Even though they are not the latest and greatest sounds, I much prefer the EP's and AC Pianos on the Fantom and I would dare to assume the same would be for your side-by-side comparison with the Nord. The Roland keybed is another compromise in my opinion.

 

I love having two boards for a gig and switch between them for most songs and in spite of my opinions above, still use VR EP's and Piano for some songs, usually layered with strings or pads when a particular killer lead or special effects samples are needed from the Fantom. In the mix, the VR sounds pretty good, where sometimes a few of the sounds might be a tad plain or even weak by itself.

 

A stacked Nord and VR setup would be killer and give you lots of flexibility. Good luck with your decision.

I really like my VR09, but only because I could not swing financing for a Nord Stage2. Ive only had a few minutes in the music store with Nord, but I think those sounds are superior to the Roland. My opinion is you might be disappointed in the VR09's EP's and especially the AC Pianos as a replacement for your Nord.

Our bassman had to bail on our last set this weekend, so I had to go heavy with the left hand. A Fantom X7 is below my VR09 on a two-tier X-stand...the Fantom's bass, while not quite as expressive, had WAY more oomph and kicked much harder than the VR09's. To be fair, I had the VR split so no effects were applied to the Combo's bass. Even though they are not the latest and greatest sounds, I much prefer the EP's and AC Pianos on the Fantom and I would dare to assume the same would be for your side-by-side comparison with the Nord. The Roland keybed is another compromise in my opinion.

 

I love having two boards for a gig and switch between them for most songs and in spite of my opinions above, still use VR EP's and Piano for some songs, usually layered with strings or pads when a particular killer lead or special effects samples are needed from the Fantom. In the mix, the VR sounds pretty good, where sometimes a few of the sounds might be a tad plain or even weak by itself.

 

Wow I use mine with a single EV ELX12p in hi pass mode. And I got read the riot act by my bassist for having too much powerfull left hand parts

Do u use the tone knob at all it adds large amouts of bass & treble as you turn it clockwize

 

A stacked Nord and VR setup would be killer and give you lots of flexibility. Good luck with your decision.

[To B3]

Thank you all for your opinions so far...

 

I know that a light DP as the Casios would give me EPs and clavs superior to that on the VR09... but with that, i would not have the option of a multi timbral rig with just one board, given that organ is the base of my sound, with EPs and Clavs sharing the other half.

 

The only ones with similar price that would give me that option is a Kurz SP4-7 (which is double the weight), as I dont require weighted keys. But the organ is worse IMHO and not as controlable (would have to add a drawbar controller, which is more $). Or a Kurz Pc361, which tripple the weight and would be much more expensive here, even used. And its getting harder to find them here. The Casio XW-P1 I definetly did not like.

 

If I end picking up the roland, when I use the VR09 alone, my idea is to add an tube pre or amp sim pedal along, to warm the sounds a little bit, especially on splits, where a rhodes or clav is on the LH. Also, as Craig and others poited out, you can do a lot with the tone knob and some easy editing... For the price, as I see, just as an affordable organ clone its worth... It's the EP and Clav that worries me a bit, although, i think it's workable... the buying "unseen" part is a little frightening, as the not exactly having the money right now, and having to count with that later... it's a gamble still...

[Kevmo]

The APs are only toped by the E4 Nord not 2/3.

They are very good live

the Clavs are top notch!

the rhodes & Wurly are good not bad very usable.

 

You will be the only one to return one if u do but im sure like me you will love the little combo

[AnotherScott]

The APs are only toped by the E4 Nord not 2/3.

The EP4 pianos are virtually identical to the E3 pianos, differing only in the Long Release feature and the ability to load the XL versions of the pianos that have them. But they are a both a big step up from the E2.

[SK]

FWIW: for the fun of it, I ordered the VR-09. Arriving tomorrow "used" (but newish) for $300 off. I think I'll enjoy a 12 LB keyboard as a second tier mainly for supplemental solo lines, synth, guitar, etc...

 

So thanks for this thread, which I will soon be referring to.

[To B3]

Only remembering, I dont use APs at all... so the pianos i'm comparing to the NE2 are the electric ones, as well as the clavs... I guess I don't have much to lose picking a VR, at least as a cheaper organ clone... the EPs and Clavs, I think that can get good with the live tweaking and the add-on of a tube preamp that I already own... The only alternative that I see that would give a stand alone option (with good organs) is the Kurz Sp4-7: double the weight, but sorta manageable for me and same prices... I know that my own impression is what would count the most, but that's not possible... So... In your opinion what are the pros and cons of the two, seeing them as a stand alone multi timbral electro mechanical vintage keyboard emulator? I need only simple two way splits and layers, one of them always being an organ...

[Ken Beaumont]

I owned an SP4-7 for 3 years. And now have a VR-09.

For me the pros for the VR09 over the SP4-7 were:

 

Sound manipulation and effect controls, deep editing capability vs 1 knob for 5 things!

The free iPad editor was a huge plus! The SP4-7 didn't have a computer editor of any kind. Though now you can get one from Sound Tower.

 

Drawbars!

 

The VA synth is way better IMHO.

The 61 keys made it easy to use as a second tier to a Hammer Action piano. The 76 keys & weight of the SP4-7 made it not ideal for use as a second tier.

The AP sounds are better, the SP4-7 was useable but I never really liked them.

 

Now the pros of the SP4-7:

You can play piano on it convincingly, not optimally but its much better for that than the VR-09

The EP's are a lot better. As with most of the patches, they were very well programmed. There weren't any that had me scratching my head wondering "WTF, who would ever use that?"

 

My solution was to use the VR-09 as a top tier for my SV1-73.

I like hammer action for piano and I can even play the Roland piano via midi with it. And the SV1 for EP is a blast!

 

EDIT: I like the basic organ on both. But with the Kurz you pretty much get what they give you. The VR09, you can change it very easily. And the leslie effect is much more convincing. Not ventilator quality, but still better than the SP4-7.

[AnotherScott]

The only alternative that I see that would give a stand alone option (with good organs) is the Kurz Sp4-7:

... In your opinion what are the pros and cons of the two, seeing them as a stand alone multi timbral electro mechanical vintage keyboard emulator? I need only simple two way splits and layers, one of them always being an organ...

The Kurz is more flexible than the VR for your application (clav+organ split, EP+organ split), because (a) you can put fx on your clav or EP while running the rotary effect on the organ, which I don't think you can do on the VR, and (b) splits are much more usable on 76 keys than on 61 keys. I also think Kurz has some of the best EP sounds. The Kurz will also be more usable as a MIDI controller, if you wanted to (for example) integrate some alternate sounds from an iPad or whatever. (Unlike the 2-zone Roland, the 4-Zone Kurz allows you to specify different MIDI parameters for each zone.) You can also pan sounds on the Kurz so that, for example, your organ can come out the left out while your clav/EP comes out the right, allowing you to send them to different amps, or to put a pedal like a Ventilator on the organ sound, etc. You're right about needing another device to do drawbar manipulation, but if you happen to have an iPad, I think you could do it with that, there are programs that allow you to create touchscreen sliders that can send out MIDI CCs. (It's not the same as physical faders, but then, neither are the drawbuttons on your Nord.) All in all, the SP4-7 is a surprisingly capable board.

 

But the Kurz also has its downsides. Real-time sound manipulation with its one knob (and uncertainty about what that one knob will do in a given circumstance) is a big limitation compared to the Roland, though not something that's necessarily an issue for your purposes. The split button does not always work in the most obvious or most useful way, though again, not necessarily an issue for you, you can certainly set up the combinations you need for single button recall. I would say that the single biggest issue for you--and it's a biggie--is that the action pretty much sucks for organ, it does not lend itself to swiping, etc. Now, I've never played a VR and I know its action has not exactly been getting raves, so I don't want to say for sure whether it's better or worse, but I would be surprised if it wasn't at least better for organ. So if your emphasis is on organ playing, that would be my biggest hesitation in recommending the SP4.

 

edit: though also, the issue of the action depends somewhat on your playing style as well... it will be more of an issue for some people than others.

[To B3]

What about the EPs and Clavs of the VR09, with some tone/compressor and MFX/overdrive manipulation, can it come close to the ones on the SP4-7?

 

The ones on the Kurz are great IMHO, even better than the Nord ones... But if with manipulation the VR09 ones can come close to the SP-7, it would be great... I mean, comparing when playing them without splitting... Cause I remember that as well as the VR09, the effect chain of the SP4 cannot handle splits very well: like a LH wah-overdriven clav would become a plain clav when paired with an RH organ, things like that for example... with the VR09, I could resolve this with a regular wah pedal plus external amp sim... as the board itself is smaller and lighter, it would not be sucha a pain to bring this extra smaller things to some gigs, I guess...

[brenner13]

I was shopping for an affordable clone wheel for several months when the VR09 announcement was made a NAMM last year at which time I knew my search was over. Before that, I tried many things in the music stores and I know it's a matter of personal taste, but the Kurz SP just didn't do it for me. Band for buck, the VR is nearly perfect for my needs. Since you don't need AC Piano, Wurly is passable okay, Rhodes is very good, and I can't imagine you'd be disappointed by the organ.

[AnotherScott]

What about the EPs and Clavs of the VR09, with some tone/compressor and MFX/overdrive manipulation, can it come close to the ones on the SP4-7?

I don't know the answer but again I think the problem would be that, even if you could get it close with fx, you can't run those fx at the same time you're running organ with its own fx. Since your goal here is splitting, and you'll probably want organ fx all the time, it means you don't have the option of putting those fx on the EPs or clavs.

 

The ones on the Kurz are great IMHO, even better than the Nord ones...

I agree

 

I mean, comparing when playing them without splitting...

though isn't splitting the biggest reason you want to switch from the Nord in the first place?

 

Cause I remember that as well as the VR09, the effect chain of the SP4 cannot handle splits very well: like a LH wah-overdriven clav would become a plain clav when paired with an RH organ, things like that for example...

Good point, I had forgotten that there were some limitations there. Not as severe as on the VR, though. You can get different fx on split sounds, but certain combinations may not work. I haven't used an SP4 in a long time and don't remember the details.

 

with the VR09, I could resolve this with a regular wah pedal plus external amp sim...

Actually, no you couldn't. As you suggest, you probably can get the effect you want when not splitting, so the whole issue is how to get the Wah/Overdrive sound on the clav when you're splitting it with organ. An external fix like that won't work because the VR-09 doesn't let you pan sounds to one output or the other. So any Wah/OD you put on the clav will end up on your organ sound as well! OTOH, if you did run into a similar situation on the Kurzweil where it could not simultaneously create all the effects you wanted on both of your split sounds, you could pan each sound to its own out, which means you actually can put the Wah/OD pedal on the Kurz' clav portion of the split without having it affect the organ sound.

[Ken Beaumont]

 

I agree brenner13,

 

The VR-09 does have quite a nice rhodes and the EQ and effects are easily tweakable for your tastes. But if your playing Supertramp, Ray Charles "What I Say" or Little Feat, you won't be as happy as with the Kurz.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

I think the VR-09 is obviously the better solution because of the Drawbars to manipulate the organ sounds.(I get the impression that this is important to the OP). I think that there are other pros and cons to the sp4 and the VR-09 but the vr-09 is 12 pounds and sounds great! Just familiarize yourself with the limitations that it has (which are well documented) and make sure these don't pose a problem for you! You can also listen to the VR-09 eps and clav on the audio demos I posted earlier. I was amazed at the sounds I got out of this little board.

 

Good luck.

[To B3]

The Wurly on the VR09 cannot get to sound similar to Faces/Gov't Mule/terrytory?

 

Regarding the effects on splitting that AnotherScott mentioned, I think that is a purely clean electromechanical sound that bothers me... I tend to use a small to medium overdrive in my sounds... With an organ/EP split on the VR, with both going through a small tube preamp like a behringer mic 200 for some dirt, I think that the main problem would be resolved... the wah is not so crucial... specially on splitt, where the clav would double a riff and the RH organ would hold a chord or solo... the wah in that case would not be so crucial... and when I want wah, I can easily bring my pedal along and use it on a clav sound alone. From that perspective, for my needs its not 100% but its very workable in general. But i agree that the SP4 has better EPs and Clavs out of the box.

[AnotherScott]

But i agree that the SP4 has better EPs and Clavs out of the box.

So for your purposes, I think it mostly comes down to

 

* better clav/EP sounds

* better split functionality (76 keys, dual effects, pannable sounds)

 

on one side, vs.

 

* real drawbars

* light weight

 

on the other, with the less certain variables being

 

* the action

* the better organ sounds

 

but those probably lean toward the VR.

 

OTOH, for organ sound, when budget permits, with the pannable organ, you could really improve the Kurz with a Ventilator, whereas the VR organ will always be the VR organ (if you're talking about using it in a split). Or if you have an iPad, if you like the sound of Galileo, you could run that as part of a split from the Kurz. The MIDI zoning opens up more of those kinds of possibilities on the Kurz than on the Roland.

 

But the action will always be the action.

 

edit: Of course if you open up the idea of getting your clonewheel sound from Galileo, than your board doesn't necessarily have to have a clonewheel function at all. Then you just need something with good MIDI capability. A Korg Krome might be a good choice, and its EPs are supposed to be strong too (though I haven't heard them yet).

[To B3]

I thought about the ipad idea paired with a Krome or a Korg PS60, but am not keen on buying extra things like an iodock or other interface to make it work properly, plus all the pain in the ass zoning work that it requires and that I dont really like to do, etc... and I dont really trust on software live yet... thats why i'm aimed on self contaneid all hardware boards, or at least boards that require very little extra gear (that I already own) to work as I want, like the wha pedal or tube preamp...

[raffkey]

If I can weigh in on this..

 

I just purchased the VR 09 to replace my Kurzweil PC361 which is in the shop because of a horrible buzzing problem..I was planning on selling the Kurz when it returns, however..

 

Im a little disappointed in the organ sounds on the VR 09 when compared to what I had in the Kurzweil! Nothing my Ventilator wont fix but I had actually began to use my Kurzweil without the Vent as the onboard leslie was doing just fine. That being said, the VR is probably untouchable in his price range if youre buying new, but it doesnt compare to my VR 700 which can be had for around the same price (used) these days, and NOTHING compares to my Viscount organ of the past, but I digress

 

The piano sounds-both EP and AP- dont compare as well..Kurzweils are better, but in fairness probably not that noticeable to the audience on most gigs. I also had a LOT more to choose from on the Kurz..

 

The VR outshines the Kurzweil in the synth department in my opinion only because they are there and ready and do not need tweaking and additional programing as I found they did on the Kurz, but theres not a lot of voices to choice from with the VR 09. Hopefully you (and Roland) have the right ones. If youre doing classical rock-the Kurzweil has the sound in there somewhere- for newer tunes, the VR 09 probably can fit the bill.

 

Splits, layers, adding effects, and finding the right voice is obviously much easier to carry out on the VR 09and then theres the weight issue..The feathery VR 09 versus the HEAVY Kurzweil, which can be an issue at times.

 

Quite frankly if it wasnt for the buzz and hiss I had with the Kurz (and the unevenness of the voices and patches), I wouldnt have purchased the VR 09 and just waited for the Kurz to return..That being said, I will have a harder than originally anticipated, decision to make when the Kurz returns.

 

[To B3]

As I said earlier... I'm a big fan of the Kurzweil EPs and Clavs especially right out of the box... The programming is genius... However, my hope is that, with the live tweaking that is possible on the VR09, I can achieve some similar results on these sounds (I know that its only possible when playing an EP or clav as a single sound, but there are many times that I'm gonna do that). I know that Craig has done something like that... Any of you had good results on dirtying (not only cranking the overdrive) the wurly sounds to make them more Ray Charles/Faces style and to simulate the pickups on the clavs? Speaking of clavs, do they have key off sample?

[Kevmo]

Oh come on that Kurz is 2or3 times the vr09 cost it sure should do things better

[Kevmo]

Craig where are these ep demos u mentioned ?

[AnotherScott]

Im a little disappointed in the organ sounds on the VR 09 when compared to what I had in the Kurzweil! Nothing my Ventilator wont fix but I had actually began to use my Kurzweil without the Vent as the onboard leslie was doing just fine.

When you don't use the Vent, are you using one of the "double leslie" effects on the PC361? Just getting back to the earlier comparison of VR-09 to SP4-7, now that you can get an editor for the SP4, I'm pretty sure that every organ sound of the PC361 can be achieved on the SP4-7 except for the double leslie effect, which requires more fx processing power than the SP4 has. So if you like the Kurz organ better than the VR even with an effect other than double leslie, that would be one vote for the SP4 having a better organ than the VR.

 

As for your Ventilator fixing the VR, it will be a little tricky in that you won't be able to use a Vent organ sound with any splits and layers (something you can do on the SP4 or, of course, the PC361, even better with its assignable outs).

 

the VR is probably untouchable in his price range if youre buying new, but it doesnt compare to my VR 700 which can be had for around the same price (used) these days, and NOTHING compares to my Viscount organ of the past, but I digress

The VR700 has probably my favorite organ action of anything on the market. But other than the action, how else do you think the VR700 is better than the VR-09 (or is it just the action)?

 

Which Viscount did you have? I've still got an old pre-MIDI double manual Viscount around here that hasn't been used in ages, but I can't bring myself to part with it.

 

f youre doing classical rock-the Kurzweil has the sound in there somewhere- for newer tunes, the VR 09 probably can fit the bill.

That's an interesting distinction/observation about their "out of the box" synth sounds.

 

and then theres the weight issue..The feathery VR 09 versus the HEAVY Kurzweil, which can be an issue at times.

Considering some of what I've gigged with, it seems almost silly to complain about the PC361's weight, but yeah, you do feel every one of it's 31 pounds. I think the weight distribution in the unit and the available ways to grip it just makes it seem even heavier than it is.

 

I will have a harder than originally anticipated, decision to make when the Kurz returns.

Yeah, it would be tough to replace a PC361 with a VR-09. The Kurz is just SO much more capable, and as you say, generally better sounding too. And with a nice action with aftertouch. Plus all that pedal support... pedals that are not assigned globally as on the VR, but can be configured separately for each program, and for each zone of a setup, to do pretty much anything you'd want (and you can connect so many of them!). And its MIDI functionality makes it much more easily expandable. You're comparing one of the most flexible boards to one of the least. The simplicity of a VR-style board is nice, but it's so much more limited, and with a little effort, you can set the Kurz up to be, in some ways, even more live friendly (i.e. compare the Kurz' Quick Setup mode to the VR's Registration function, plus you can make the sliders do almost anything you want). Really, the main reason I could see going with the VR (especially if you have a Vent) is the light weight. Though if you're going to put an iPad on the VR, I have to say, the apps look like they would increase the fun factor.

[To B3]

The great appeal I see on the VR09, besides the weight and price is really the simplicity, the inviting interface... I know you can make the Kurz do almost everything the VR09 does and more, including every slider or knob or pedal to every funtion... but, besides it being much heavier and only being possible to find used (and to a much higher price proportionally here in Brazil, unlike the US, where its priced the same), there's the psicological factor of the ready-to-go interface of the VR09, with no menu diving like on the PC3... I really dont need too much in terms of quantity of sounds, complexity of splits and layers... just simple, good quality stuff with real time tweaking on a live board and the possibility to make it sound like you want... guess I can live with the compromisses with my own fixes and there's the hope of an OS update to improve some things like pedal assigning, EFX routing and stuff... Even if they don't do that or if they take long to do that, it's a good organ clone for my needs on a great price and fantastic portability... my main worries are really the conection with the board, finger to key, inspiration, etc... but there's no way to know that without playing one... still a gamble

[Craig MacDonald]

The great appeal I see on the VR09, besides the weight and price is really the simplicity, the inviting interface... I know you can make the Kurz do almost everything the VR09 does and more, including every slider or knob or pedal to every funtion... but, besides it being much heavier and only being possible to find used (and to a much higher price proportionally here in Brazil, unlike the US, where its priced the same), there's the psicological factor of the ready-to-go interface of the VR09, with no menu diving like on the PC3... I really dont need too much in terms of quantity of sounds, complexity of splits and layers... just simple, good quality stuff with real time tweaking on a live board and the possibility to make it sound like you want... guess I can live with the compromisses with my own fixes and there's the hope of an OS update to improve some things like pedal assigning, EFX routing and stuff... Even if they don't do that or if they take long to do that, it's a good organ clone for my needs on a great price and fantastic portability... my main worries are really the conection with the board, finger to key, inspiration, etc... but there's no way to know that without playing one... still a gamble

 

+1 To B3

 

The beauty of the VR-09 is in its simplicity, size and weight. You can pay twice as much for another instrument and still have compromises.. Every keyboard does... I got used to the keyboard very quickly, and I am able to use it as backup for my mojo organ, and my Kronos, if necessary... And it was only $999, that's a steal for such a lightweight versatile instrument!

[To B3]

It's basically the same philosophy as the Nord Electro/Stage series, applied to a much more friendly price point and interface, coupled with the ease of distribution of a big factory, like Roland. Like the Nord, it's not the best in most of the things that it do, but the fact that it puts together those great things in a compact package with an user friendly interface, is a great and inspiring thing for live players of many levels. Almost convinced to pull the trigger

[raffkey]

Hey Scott, in answer to your questions:

 

"When you don't use the Vent, are you using one of the "double leslie" effects on the PC361? "

 

I don't believe so..I don't have the board here, or I'd check.

 

" The VR700 has probably my favorite organ action of anything on the market. But other than the action, how else do you think the VR700 is better than the VR-09 (or is it just the action)?"

 

The sound seems to be bigger, for lack of a better word. The 8888 registrations and most other ones seem to have a wider sound..The highs are higher, lows have more depth.. The drawbars are full size, as well as the keys, and of course the construction. The 700 is SOLID.

 

" Which Viscount did you have? "

 

I had a single manual, drawbar type. Looked just like a Korg CX 3, but sounded WAY better. I had a Korg, afterwards, and didn't care for it.

 

And to Kevmo's: "Oh come on that Kurz is 2or3 times the vr09 cost it sure should do things better"

 

 

-Well the VR 09 is supposed to be a Hammond clone, or organ first, I believe, while the Kurzweil is billed as a controller with a lot of voices with the KB (?) organ section thrown in. I would expect a dedicated clone to be at least as good as general, multi duty board.

 

I actually purchased my Kurz as a restock I think, and it was only around $500 more than the 09..

 

 

 

 

[nadroj]

After a month of researching and reading everything I could find about the VR-09, I finally found a store with one in stock. Spent the good part of 40 minutes playing around on it, and have to say, once I got past my initial dislike of the keys (I was disappointed that they used the same keybed as the Juno Di/Gi) I loved it.

 

Tweaked the pianos a bit, and they'll do the job. EPs aren't great, but if I'm ever at a gig where I need a really good EP sound for more than 2 songs, I'll take my RD. To mirror what was said above, the very hands on and quick accessing layout was very similar to a lot of interfaces Roland have produced lately. It made tweaking sounds to get them how I wanted quick and painless, especially with the organs.

Speaking of the organs, I loved them. I went over to the Nord section and had a shot of a few things there; Played around on a couple of Electros and I have to say, when I went back to the VR-09 I enjoyed not only the sounds, but the playability so much more.

 

I'm after a small, lightweight keyboard that will be able to replace my RD-700 for pub gigs and most weddings, and within 10 minutes of playing around with the dials and drawbars, I was able to replicate (close enough) most sounds that I currently use.

 

The only thing I couldn't get was a good, "full" live brass sound. There were synth brass parts and solo instruments, but no brass "section" that I could find. And since it's only capable of two layers, it's not like I can build up a brass section by layering various voices. Did I just scroll past it, or has anyone been able to come up with a passable live brass section sound on it?

[AnotherScott]

Oh come on that Kurz is 2or3 times the vr09 cost it sure should do things better

Right, it is an unfair comparison. The kurz was designed and built to sell for $2500, and we're comparing it to a keyboard that was designed and built to sell for $1k. And I guess kudos to Roland that someone is even thinking about replacing their PC361 with the VR, regardless of the tradeoffs.

 

And I do give the VR its props for its hands-on simplicity. It frustrates me because it wouldn't have taken a lot to make it so much better... pannable sounds, pedal assignment by program/registration, drawbars that send MIDI CCs and the ability to associate MIDI program changes with each side of a split, are all software tweaks that probably would have added nothing to the manufacturing cost, and made it SO much more usable. And for an upgraded model, give it a better keyboard with an extra octave of keys and aftertouch and add some more registration buttons... I'd buy that today for $1500.

[Mike Kent]

The only thing I couldn't get was a good, "full" live brass sound. There were synth brass parts and solo instruments, but no brass "section" that I could find. And since it's only capable of two layers, it's not like I can build up a brass section by layering various voices. Did I just scroll past it, or has anyone been able to come up with a passable live brass section sound on it?

 

I haven't tried yet, but I think I will be able to get there. Using iPad as editor you can build a sound with 3 tones. I plan to try layering a couple of PCM sounds and then a supersaw analog wave behind that to fill it out. If that doesn't do it then I will use a layered sound and I will have 6 tones to work with.

[To B3]

Oh come on that Kurz is 2or3 times the vr09 cost it sure should do things better

Right, it is an unfair comparison. The kurz was designed and built to sell for $2500, and we're comparing it to a keyboard that was designed and built to sell for $1k. And I guess kudos to Roland that someone is even thinking about replacing their PC361 with the VR, regardless of the tradeoffs.

 

And I do give the VR its props for its hands-on simplicity. It frustrates me because it wouldn't have taken a lot to make it so much better... pannable sounds, pedal assignment by program/registration, drawbars that send MIDI CCs and the ability to associate MIDI program changes with each side of a split, are all software tweaks that probably would have added nothing to the manufacturing cost, and made it SO much more usable. And for an upgraded model, give it a better keyboard with an extra octave of keys and aftertouch and add some more registration buttons... I'd buy that today for $1500.

 

I too would consider it even if it were a bit more expensive with these extra fixes... however, as it is, i already see a lot of potential. and most of the fixes can be done with an OS update... some improvements on the sounds can be done right away with a simple knob twist...