Which Moog bass then?

[Nillerbabs]

Hey folks.

 

 

Maybe a worn-out request, but I'm looking for opinions on various Moogs and their take on that classic bass sound. I'm kicking off a new project for which I need that sound, kickin' it with a cool 80's vibe, and being able to easily take this sound with me live.

 

I've been looking around, and on the second hand market I find Phattys, a Prodigy and a Source. I have heard the Phatty before, and been pleased with its sound over digital synths, but less impressed by a slight lack of moogness. I have given demos of the Source a good listen and find it a strong contender, but am less impressed by the interface (not that much of an issue when just calling up a bass sound, but it limits what I can do with it in other arenas. I'm a live tweaker). I have also heard about issues with the buttons going out of order and being hardly replacable.

 

I am interested in opinions and experience on this matter.

thanks!

 

Niels

[mate stubb]

Taurus.

[Doerfler]

Taurus.

 

alternatively, Minitaur if no Taurus available

[GovernorSilver]

Sub Phatty is kind of a bastard child of Little Phatty and Minitaur - 2 VCOs like the other Phattys plus a sub oscillator.

 

[video:youtube]

[Nillerbabs]

The sub phatty is so cool, and I so want to want it, but two octaves is way to short for anything. Had completely forgotten about the Minitaur, thanks dudes.

 

If you were to say anything, how do the keyboards mentioned in the first post deliver that bass in comparison to i.e. the Minitaur? The latter seems an obvious choice, but if I could get a strong keyboard that could deliver solid bass as well as cater for other sounds with other bands, that would be a sweet deal.

[GovernorSilver]

One advantage of the Minitaur is the small size. I was surprised how small it was when I finally saw it onstage. I know you kind of want another keyboard, but if you already have a couple of keyboads (presumably with MIDI or CV outputs) the Minitaur would add the Moog bass you seek without taking up too much space.

[Nillerbabs]

I am actually looking for a standalone unit. This will be a whole new thing, a vessel for my own vocal pop tunes, where I'll be doing lead vocals and the synth bass. So I'm looking for something that's as standalone as possible.

[yorgatron]

I don't have any personal experience with the Source or Little Phatty, except for hearing about their problems (membrane failure on the former, cheap keyboard on the latter.) but I did just borrow a Prodigy from my drummer, and I have to say, it does the bass thing really, really well. also does some nice leads, but not as good for odd noises/FX as other lower-priced Moogs. I got to try a Realistic MG-1, and it's a lot of fun, but doesn't have a sophisticated enough contour control for a nice bass sound.

if you can get the Prodigy for a reasonable price I'd go for it, but look out for dirty/scratchy pots & switches. there are numerous websites that will list all the common probems they have.

 

[yorgatron]

Taurus.

 

might not fit the budget, especially when they go for this kind of money;

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/3693195415.html

[Bobadohshe]

The Sub phatty sounded really great at NAMM. 2 Octaves might not be enough for some folks though.

[The Real MC]

Don't knock the Source, mine has been my go-to synth for bass. I have owned it since 1985 and had zero problems with the membrane panel. The trick is to use your fingertips not your fingernails as they will cut into the membrane. For live tweaking like filter sweeps the data wheel is great.

 

I would prefer Source over Minitaur because the Minitaur has fixed square and ramp waves while Source has triangle, ramp, and VARIABLE pulse waves. I get a lot more mileage with the variable pulse waves. The Phatty doesn't put out the low end of the Minitaur or Source. Haven't heard the Sub Phatty.

[Al Coda]

Don't knock the Source, mine has been my go-to synth for bass. I have owned it since 1985 and had zero problems with the membrane panel. The trick is to use your fingertips not your fingernails as they will cut into the membrane.

 

For the membrane panel there´s a replacement from Technology Transplant anyway.

 

For live tweaking like filter sweeps the data wheel is great.

 

I had a Moog Source, 3 Minimoog D and a Taurus 1 pedal.

I buyed the Source because 1 of my Minimoogs got stolen some day and exactly at the time when Minimoog production stopped.

 

I´ve found the data wheel not being very accurate when detuning oscillators and compared to the analog control of the Minimoog.

That data wheel value output is stepped, which is no surprise because there´s a lame Z80 processor working in the Source.

But there was the "advantage" of storing 16 presets.

 

I wasn´t pleased w/ the Source´s keys action compared to usage of Minimoog D w/ the Pratt-Read spring contact loaded action.

 

I didn´t use the Source very long even it had presets,- it also showed issues in the digital department after some time of heavy gigging/touring,- so I stayed with Minimoog D and the Taurus 1 pedal.

 

The Taurus 1 pedal had most low end of all.

 

I would prefer Source over Minitaur because the Minitaur has fixed square and ramp waves while Source has triangle, ramp, and VARIABLE pulse waves. I get a lot more mileage with the variable pulse waves. The Phatty doesn't put out the low end of the Minitaur or Source. Haven't heard the Sub Phatty.

 

To me, the Source is more a lead synth but usable for bass too,- like the Minimoog D.

With Source and Minimoog D, best is using only 1 OSC for bass to avoid changing rate of OSC freq. beating resulting in phase cancelation over the range of the instruments w/ OSCs detuned.

It´s welcome for fat drones though, but not for riffs and runs.

 

The advantage of Taurus 1 over the Minimoog D and now the advantage of Minitaur over the others is,- they are both V/Hz technology and the others are CV/oct.

 

For bass sounds, when using 2 OSCs detuned,- OSC beat frequency doesn´t change over the entire range of the synth w/ V/Hz technology.

Minitaur is todays bass synth for me.

I have the impression Sub Phatty uses it´s technology too,- but I´m not sure.

If yes,- it´s a good bass synth too IMO, w/ more options than Minitaur and a 2 octave keyboard.

That´s not much, but it has a keyboard and Minitaur doesn´t.

Both are playable via MIDI or CV though ...

I dislike the form factor of Sub Fatty,- so Minitaur is better for me.

When the sawtooth wave of a Taurus 1 was enough for earth shattering bass,- Minitaur offers more than a Taurus pedal (except Taurus III) ever did.

It´s the most portable and affordable solution.

 

Today, thinking of buying old MOOGs, I´d only buy a Minimoog D nothing else.

It has the best value and there´s no digital crap inside.

Connect 2 MOOG 1120 CV pedals to a Minimoog D and use the wheels,- it´s as expressive as a violin.

You don´t need any presets.

Add a Minitaur and you´re done.

The only step up is a modular synth.

 

A.C.

 

[Losendoskeys]

You're in luck!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moog-Minitaur-Bass-Synthesizer-Analog-Synth-Module-Mini-Taurus-3-Tabletop-/140937943592?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20d08e5a28

[The Real MC]

True on detuned oscillators for bass sounds, but you're forgetting a very useful accessory on the Source that was lacking on Minimoog and Taurus.

 

Hard sync.

 

That is a neat tool for bass sounds, it is not just for leads.

 

I have Minimoog, Source, Voyager, Taurus 1, Taurus 3 for bass sounds. Bass guitar is my second instrument after keyboards. For authentic bass sounds and variety, the Source is the one I reach for. Taurus is the undisputed king of low end, but ramp only and no hard sync limits the palette. Minimoog has a signature sound but best applied for synth bass. I have some interesting bass sounds in Voyager but it has a much better modulation system best applied for other sounds.

 

And my Source doesn't have the "stepping" in the data wheel that you describe... In fact the resolution is doubled for OSC2 detuning and filter cutoff (in full keyboard tracking). Maybe you had a real early Source...?

 

My Source has the MIDI retrofit from Encore Electronics that increases patch storage to 256 and lots of cool MIDI features, unfortunately now out of stock.

 

The feel of the keyboard in the Source never bothered me. In fact the design of that keyboard is the most reliable of any vintage synth I have owned since 1985, and I gigged heavily with it.

[Tusker]

I'm kicking off a new project for which I need that sound, kickin' it with a cool 80's vibe, and being able to easily take this sound with me live.

 

Sub Phatty was designed with you in mind. Check it out, if you want a worry free gig. Trigger it from another keyboard, if you want full size keys.

 

Mini D is still special if you don't mind the labor of love and you want that look in your rig. dB has his modded with osc sync.

[GovernorSilver]

I am actually looking for a standalone unit. This will be a whole new thing, a vessel for my own vocal pop tunes, where I'll be doing lead vocals and the synth bass. So I'm looking for something that's as standalone as possible.

 

Just one bass synth keyboard, a mic, and your voice as your entire rig? No other keyboards? I'd be interested in hearing that.

[Al Coda]

True on detuned oscillators for bass sounds, but you're forgetting a very useful accessory on the Source that was lacking on Minimoog and Taurus.

 

Hard sync.

 

That is a neat tool for bass sounds, it is not just for leads.

 

That´s true,- but one of the main disadvantages of the Source to me was,- the control of the sync sweep was limited to the mod wheel and there was no CV-pedal input to change that.

I myself, I prefered and prefer controlling sync sweep and VCF modulation stuff by footpedal.

In fact,- we modded my 2nd Prophet 5 to control the PolyMod section by CV pedal and independently from Z80 processor control over presets.

It had a digital switch to insert the CV pedal manually on demand into any preset I recalled.

Well, at the time I had the Source, I hadn´t that tech available to realize the idea.

 

B.t.w., one of the best bass sounds I have on my Xpander is a sync-bass patch,- so I know what you´re talking about and it´s also true the Xpander hasn´t that low end a Source w/ sync offers.

 

I have ...

 

It´s absolutely great you have all these options up today !

I have many too,- even not the same ones.

But we both don´t have to think about the all-in-one instrument solutions.

Since I buyed the AoS library for KURZ PC3 models which is well pre-programmed in the sense of basic patches you only need minor adjustments for to customize the presets,- I get very good sync patches also from my PC361.

 

And my Source doesn't have the "stepping" in the data wheel that you describe... In fact the resolution is doubled for OSC2 detuning and filter cutoff (in full keyboard tracking). Maybe you had a real early Source...?

 

For sure because I buyed it when it came out to replace the stolen Minimoog.

At that time I had a large rig,- 3 Ultimate Support A-frames full of synths for gigging and I always used 2 Moogs,- 1 for the bass and the other for the leads.

The 3rd was in my studio always,- so I needed a replacement quickly.

I might have been not precise enough w/ my description above,- in edit mode, I was able to adjust the fine tune between OSCs accurately, but when that was stored and been recalled, the result was different, so it seemed to be some parameter quantisation happening when stored.

 

My Source has the MIDI retrofit from Encore Electronics that increases patch storage to 256 and lots of cool MIDI features, unfortunately now out of stock.

 

Ah, o.k., never heard of that before,- not everything you US guys had early 80s was available here.

I always wanted a DynoMy Rhodes or the Songbird Tri-Stereo-Chorus and had no chance.

It was so hard to get parts for my Fender Rhodes mk I from 1971 I had to sell it in 1985.

Very sad from todays perspective !

 

The feel of the keyboard in the Source never bothered me. In fact the design of that keyboard is the most reliable of any vintage synth I have owned since 1985, and I gigged heavily with it.

 

Well, actions ...

It´s personal taste/preference always IMO.

Up to now, Minimoog Pratt-Read action is my prefered synth action, followed by the one of the old DX7 ...

 

The Source´s action was not unreliable,- but I felt limited w/ it because I was used to the Minimoog action as well as I missed the lower half octave.

 

I´m happy I have one Minimoog D left as well as the CV pedals and it has CV /Gate outs, so easy to interface w/ a Minitaur.

 

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

Mini D is still special if you don't mind the labor of love and you want that look in your rig. dB has his modded with osc sync.

 

Yep, there are Minimoog D mods for soft- and hard-sync.

I think they are the same Studioelectronics used for their Midimoog (not Midimini) which used the original Minimoog D circuit boards.

Unfortunately I don´t have the schematics/circuit diagram for that mod because I always wanted to have soft- and hard-sync in my Minimmog D, then toggle routing of VCF CV-pedal to OSC frequency or VCF cutoff alternately by a switch.

 

If anyone has that stuff,- please PM.

 

A.C.

[funkphingerz88]

You're a live tweaker right. So you need one dial per function. That writes off the source and phatty. It brings into view the minitaur (paired with a 3 octave controller) the sub phatty (but 2 octaves are too restrictive for serious bass action) or an older moog with one dial per function but then you've got the reliability issue. My money would be on the Minitaur plus controller. Job done.

[Al Coda]

My money would be on the Minitaur plus controller. Job done.

 

http://www.memorymoon.com/downloads.htm

 

scroll down to:

 

Moog Minitaur downloads > patches & controller templates

 

You´ll find:

 

Noation, Roland/Edirol PCR & AKAI MPK files

 

 

A.C.

 

 

 

 

[Steve Force]

As I am playing more bass these days, and want to include some analog synth sounds I have noodled with the idea of:

1. using my Moog Voyager RME,

2. building a small module-based rack-mounted system using some of the DOTCOM modules,

3. scoring a Minitaur/Subphatty

 

I am thinking about the Minitar, as the subphatty for some reason doesn't tickle my fancy..

 

thoughts?

[Tusker]

It really depends on the gig.

 

Minitaur is a cool gadget. It does the Taurus roar (they nailed that rasp), it does blippy, it does mellow, and a few other things ... but I think you especially will find it limiting very soon. No sync, no fm, simple envelopes, no sub oscillator ...

 

It's a practical little tool. Unless you are totally cramped on this gig and you need only a couple of simple sounds, I'd look at one of the other alternatives. I get how cool it is to have this mammoth bottom coming out of something so small though ... especially if you are committed to using dedicated bass amplification for it.

[Steve Force]

Thanks Tusker for your thoughtful reply. I guess I need to read more about the sub Oscillator.

 

Question: what do you consider alternatives (outside of the subphatty, that is?)

[The Real MC]

What genres will you be playing bass?

[Mike Martin]

A Minitaur has been on my short list for a while but now everyone says the Subphatty sounds better. I need to compare. I need some money.

[Steve Force]

Genres? Well I was thinking some Bluegrass..

 

My usage will be just some bass reinforcement and perhaps some bass lines. Off the top of my head, think Joe Jackson's "Stepping Out" from the Night and Day record.

 

(Notice I said "record", not CD.. hear that Jim Alfredson? )

[The Real MC]

I asked about genres because the Minitaur is sufficient for synth bass. When I'm pulling off actual bass guitar sounds, the Voyager is better with the variable waveshaping and modulation options. Sub Phatty is good for bass but the Slim Phatty or Phatty can't put out that low end.

[Steve Force]

I asked about genres because the Minitaur is sufficient for synth bass. When I'm pulling off actual bass guitar sounds, the Voyager is better with the variable waveshaping and modulation options. Sub Phatty is good for bass but the Slim Phatty or Phatty can't put out that low end.

 

Thanks! I agree about the phatty/slim phatty--this is why I tried then sold them. the Bottom Just Wasn't There. Really, all I want is a synth bass sound, not imitating any upright bass/bass guitar sounds (for that I have the actual axe.)

 

Perhaps I should just concentrate on using my Voyager RME for this...

[Steve Force]

Damn! I was forgetting about my Camel Audio Alchemy soft synths..

[Josh Paxton]

There's also Korg's forthcoming Volca Bass to consider.