Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Plassgard]

Craig, I totally agree about the organ sound. I made a much better organ sound the other night but forgot to save it. This was recorded "live" with just starting with the "Bay Area B3" and tweaking a bit as I played.

The Little demo I made was for fun and to show that the VR-09 is capable of quite different sounds.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Anders, thanks for clarifying.. the "Bay Area B3" is the patch I used as a starting point to create my first organ patch.. If you take that registration and turn the tone control all the way to the left and then set the upper/lower gains to suit your taste you'll have a pretty good sound and then you can tweak it from there, increasing or decreasing keyclick and leakage to taste.

 

Again thanks for posting, and clarifying the question, if was a very good demo.

 

One last question, did your unit have the issues that have surfaced here.. notes retriggering when changing programs etc.. AND if it didn't (which would mean that you had a newer level of OS than I did).. can you separate the expression pedal on two layered parts? For example can you layer a piano and organ and have the expression pedal ONLY control the organ?

[AnotherScott]

did your unit have the issues that have surfaced here.. notes retriggering when changing programs etc.. AND if it didn't (which would mean that you had a newer level of OS than I did).. can you separate the expression pedal on two layered parts? For example can you layer a piano and organ and have the expression pedal ONLY control the organ?

Two thoughts... One, we don't know for a fact that the retriggering issue will be addressed in the next rev, and two, anything that is a new feature (as opposed to a bug fix) would also require a revised manual or an addendum.

[Craig MacDonald]

AnotherScott,

 

Correct on both points, but I just thought that there was no harm in asking, since Anders is the only one, other than myself, who has one.. If his is different it would be evidence that the suggestion made earlier in this thread, that there is a factory update in the works, might be true. AND if so, perhaps there was a fix or feature change related to the expression pedal which was included.. Again, no harm in asking...

[Plassgard]

Yes Craig my unit have the issue with retriggering if I hold down the sustainpedal so no newer OS in mine...

 

And I will experimenting with those settings for the organ this weekend, thanx!

 

 

[Ken Beaumont]

I just received mine from Sweetwater today. While I have only played it for about 15-20 minutes, I can report that the note off issue is fixed in mine.

 

Also the organ sounds better than I expected, I can work with this. I also played with the synth and looper for a bit, nice sounds wish it had an arpeggiator.

[To B3]

What about the Electric pianos and Clavs, can you compare them with your other boards, SV1, MOX?

 

Also, if the double trigger does not happen on your unit, what about the exp pedal assigning on splits that we debated here, does it work differently on your VR-09? Can it be saved per patch?

[Craig MacDonald]

Also, if the double trigger does not happen on your unit, what about the exp pedal assigning on splits that we debated here, does it work differently on your VR-09? Can it be saved per patch?

It's easy to check if the expression pedal assignment issue has changed... If you go into the controller menu you will see that the damper pedal has 3 settings.. All/upper/lower... The expression pedal doesn't have these same options, so you cannot separate the function of the expression pedal between the upper and lower parts.. If it.s fixed/changed I would expect the expression pedals to have all/upper-lower options as well, unless they've used some other approach..

 

Yes Toano the organ does sound much better than I would have thought too!

[Plassgard]

Agree with you both, the organ sound real good. On Wednesday I will bring my VR-09 to rehearsals with my band. It will be real interesting to see how it sounds through the Ventilator. And I will smile when I carry it

[HammondDave]

Agree with you both, the organ sound real good. On Wednesday I will bring my VR-09 to rehearsals with my band. It will be real interesting to see how it sounds through the Ventilator. And I will smile when I carry it

 

What a bunch of WIMPS! Back in my day (like 40 years ago) I used to load in my C3 and Leslie with only three other guys! Up stairs, Across long ballroom floors, through hotel kitchens, across gangplanks onto yachts, down alleys... Etc...

 

Carrying it under your arm? Pshhhh!

[Plassgard]

Well if you had my back problems and constant pain you would be happy too!

[HammondDave]

Are you kidding? I pull my back out just sliding my B3 out of the corner of my studio... And it is on furniture sliders and a hardwood floor! I can't believe I did the shit I did when I was 17!

[AnotherScott]

What a bunch of WIMPS! Back in my day (like 40 years ago) I used to load in my C3 and Leslie with only three other guys! Up stairs, Across long ballroom floors, through hotel kitchens, across gangplanks onto yachts, down alleys... Etc...

If you still had the 3 roadies (and no wife), maybe you could get that Mellotron Mark V...

[brenner13]

What a bunch of WIMPS! Back in my day (like 40 years ago) I used to load in my C3 and Leslie with only three other guys! Up stairs, Across long ballroom floors, through hotel kitchens, across gangplanks onto yachts, down alleys...

 

...through three feet of snow...uphill...both ways?

 

[NeedMoreBass]

By Plassgard:

 

[video:youtube]

[HammondDave]

 

...through three feet of snow...uphill...both ways?

 

No, it did not snow in South Florida... Did play it on the beach several times...

[brenner13]

Big respect to Hammond schleppers. Nothing can ever be as pure as the real thing, but sure is neat to have these lighter options now.

 

A beach gig in South FL? That sounds like a blast. Poolside or lakeside is the closest we get in Kansas. Is it summer yet?

[Ken Beaumont]

The best I can tell , expression pedal is still global. The clav , EP and AP are the exact same ones as in my BK7 module. They are pretty much the same quality as the stock sounds in my MOX8 before I installed vintage keys. I always liked the Natural Grand patch on my BK7, so it's good to be able to midi it to my SV1.

I much prefer, the EP and Clav on my SV1. This board is a perfect addition to the SV1. In fact I brought it to my gig last night without reading any of the manual.

I used it for organ, horns and synth lead and pads. Very happy customer! I was afraid pre-ordering without playing it would end badly. But I'm satisfied. As for the keys, meh! I can live with them, as long as I have my SV1 available. I play predominately piano so others mileage may very. It works for me for what I use it for. I am going to adjust the velocity curve a little harder though, it gets to 127 way to fast for my tastes, especially the black keys.

 

[eric]

By Plassgard:

 

[video:youtube]

 

That sounds great! Very ballsy organ sound. I might pick up one of these as an easy jam beach party keyboard. I have this older Yamaha NP piano that fills that niche for me, so a VR09 would be a nice partner for it.

 

This is a mega thread, for sure!

[brenner13]

Well apparently the delivery person used my VR as a step stool for most of the day...finally arrived early evening yesterday...It sure is light weight.

 

The "factory update" that delayed my delivery did not address the retriggering nor the expression assignment...bummer.

 

Interestingly, piano is the default startup sound. It ain't great. The sample loops are quite apparent. My old Fantom X7 does better with more variety. I had stopped drooling over the SRX piano card thinking the VR's would be better, but now must be on the search again for a decent price on that expansion card. Quick fix...dial a tiny bit of MFX pitch shifter just so it's barely there, twist the verb to about 10 o'clock and dial the effect to HALL. Passable for a gig, but as Craig commented much earlier in the thread, probably won't attempt any recording with these PNO's.

 

EP's are okay. Again, Fantom does better with way more variety. The instant access to staple effects are the VR's strong point and are plenty good to cover the gig.

 

I've not played clav much so really have no comments other than the effects are pretty handy. Gonna have to learn those common covers, now.

 

Several decent analog brass tones under the designated button that should cover most any 70's and 80's radio hit. AC Brass is a tad lacking...only a couple to choose from...StackTp Sect should work fine for the occasional BLAT. At first, I didnt particularly care for the N. Trumpet even though the "N" might suggest a few borrowed performance controls from the SuperNatural train of thought. The basic sample just had little to say dynamically until discovering the sloppier I got with my playing and fingering more interesting and fun the sound became. The N. Alto Sax is pretty good at eaking out some fairly expressive phrases on the softer side of things, but still would have been nice to have more velocity level sample switches going on to compliment more aggressive playing however N control 2 brings in a passable growl. Wish the neighboring Blow Sax had the N controls available. Guess I'm spoiled by the VL engine in the Yammy EX-5. Wishing there was an option to assign N control to the expression pedal.

 

The Strings button again does well to represent most analog needs of the 80's, but still only barely suffices with the acoustic ones, however the Violin patch keeps sucking me in to play it some more. Boy howdy, t'would have been nice to have some N control there.

 

Synth Leads are great and plentiful, period.

As are the Basses. Love the N. AcousticBs.

The Pads are quite nice, if a tad plain...leaves lots of room to mess with the effects.

 

Choir covers analog and samples fairly well. Signature Roland Jazz Scat is sooooo novelty but dang, why is that so much fun? Great velo-switching.

 

SFX goes where the Pads left off. Should be fun to layer. Wish there were more of them.

 

The Others button contain pretty good tuned perc (vibes and the like), clean guitars, and a few woodwinds. Ac. Gtr Sld has that velo-switching buzzy upward fret slide that's so much fun. Found a fun little trick to slide some longer decay on the AD(no S)R envelope drawbars with the JC E. Guitar; makes for a nice pedal steel to cover Lay, Lady, Lay. N. Flute has a delightful choice of chiff or growl control.

 

Drums do what they do. Hit the Song/Rhythm button twice to get to the preset patters. Got lots to choose from. I spent a good half-hour with the Swing variations and a PnoBsSplit registration...

 

...which by the way, Registrations are where the VR really shines. Ther are some amazingly HUGE synth layers and very useful splits already provided as editable registration presets. Did I mention "AMAZINGLY HUGE synths"?

 

Oh yeah...the whole reason I chose this board...the organ. Pretty dog-gone good...after a lot of fiddling with parameters. Interestingly, pressing the Organ button brings up a very basic 888000000 rock organ setting...it's a little disconcerting like, "Is that it?", but in about 10 minutes of tweaks I managed some great Gimmie Some Lovin grit. Ended up loosing the settings by inadvertently hitting a registration preset looking for a spot to save it. It was fairly easy to dial it all back in, though. Had to crack the manual to learn how to save.

 

Initially I was a tad disappointed and questioning why I bought this sight unseen, but 8 hours of playing and a partial night's sleep, me thinks it'll work out just fine. The key action is the worst that I have in my collection and I'm a weak-fisted synth guy can't make it through a four hour gig on weighted 88's. Everything else I own has aftertouch except the VK1000 which definitely has the clunkiest feel of them all. The VR will take some practice but should work fine for org and synth. Gonna have to tweak the available velocity curves to hopefully get better pno feel.

 

D-Beam has pretty limited functions...pitch only goes down? SFX default to Spring Shock with no way to save anther sound to default (Big Gong is awesome)...and unfortunately the sounds go through the chosen block's effects with no option to bypass. The controller defaults to Rotary Fast/Slow even on N control sounds. Really wishing there was a way to save those settings per patch. Looks like Registration is the place where everything is to be programmed. Also, the D-Beam should have been switched with the USB location because one can't help but trigger the beam when adjusting overdrive.

 

Last of my gripes...no arpeggiator??? Looper...what's that?

 

Overall, can't knock the value of this thing for everything it does in this price range.

 

 

[Ken Beaumont]

The piano is the standard Roland Grand there are a couple better ones than the default. But playing through those keys isn't great. I have tried to reproduce the trigger issue, mine doesn't do it. The synth sounds and the organ are the saving graces for this board.

[becoming53]

Good to read all of these detailed opinions the VR-09 while I wait for one to arrive in the UK so I can decide whether to trade in my Juno Stage.

 

One question that I think I can already guess the answer to...will I be able to do a "hybrid" split / layer kind of thing...i.e. one patch sounding across the whole of the keyboard, and a second layered with it but only on one side (left or right) of a split point?

[brenner13]

Split or Layered only, no X-fade. Splits default with Lower at B under middle C but the point can be moved anywhere by holding Split and pressing the lowest desired key for the Upper. Each tone has independent 3 octave adjustment up or down.

 

Juno Stage is 76 keys? I vowed to never buy another 61'er, but wound up seduced by the VR's pricepoint. It's fine for org and synth; keep running out of room on pno however the Octave buttons are nicely placed just right of middle and work well.

[Craig MacDonald]

Split or Layered only, no X-fade. Splits default with Lower at B under middle C but the point can be moved anywhere by holding Split and pressing the lowest desired key for the Upper. Each tone has independent 3 octave adjustment up or down.

The VR-09 isn't a workstation, so it's not cable of anything more than a split/layer and while you can set the split point you can't establish high note/low note to create the kind of composite set up as you're suggesting.

 

I did confirm with my Roland rep that the VR-09 OS is easily updated via the USB stick and turning it on while pressing a keybutton combination, so I fully expect that there will be updates to it to add feature function. I think that the most pressing issues to be fixed (assuming the retriggering issue is fixed) are storing controller (damper/expression) in registrations AND the ability to enable/disable the expression on different parts when split/layering.

 

Organ is almost ALWAYS played with an expression pedal, whereas every other acoustic instrument you might want to layer with organ (strings, acoustic piano, etc) all rely on touch to control volume. So we absolutely need the ability for expression to work on an organ layer and not on a secondary layer.

 

[HammondDave]

 

Organ is almost ALWAYS played with an expression pedal, whereas every other acoustic instrument you might want to layer with organ (strings, acoustic piano, etc) all rely on touch to control volume. So we absolutely need the ability for expression to work on an organ layer and not on a secondary layer.

 

Roland may be considering the Expression pedal to be like a volumes pedal. Organ players know the difference, but how about your average keyboard player? And not to burst your bubble, they are notorious for not updating their synths for "added features". If they sell a bunch as is, why update?

 

Jim A posted a great video demo of the new Casio performance piano. It also sounds

Like a good value for the money. But they made some strange compromises as well. The Roland uses an unacceptably cheap keyboard (my opinion). Same thing for several other new synths I demoed at NAMM.

 

These manufacturers are just cheapening down their products to meet a certain price point. And as long as musicians purchase them, they will continue to do so.

 

[Ekewaka]

At least Casio didn't go cheap with their PX-5S key bed. For me the drawing line is if a cheap MIDI controller feels better to play than a $999 keyboard...

[simchaleh]

Organ is almost ALWAYS played with an expression pedal, whereas every other acoustic instrument you might want to layer with organ (strings, acoustic piano, etc) all rely on touch to control volume. So we absolutely need the ability for expression to work on an organ layer and not on a secondary layer.

hey maybe someone could inlighten me on this point. ive always been a piano/synth based player and never really got into organ rooted music till recently. can you guys explain to me why the volume pedal is so important for organ playing if we have velocity sensitive keys? i understand the reason on old school organs where there was no volume sensitivy, but nowadays, is there still a purpose other than keeping it genuine to the origional?

i have an expression pedal and would be intrested in learing how to use it with the organ. thnks

[AnotherScott]

At least Casio didn't go cheap with their PX-5S key bed. For me the drawing line is if a cheap MIDI controller feels better to play than a $999 keyboard...

I'm waiting to hear from someone who has the opportunity to spend some time with both the PX-5S and the VR-09. We know the VR is the better organ, the PX is the better MIDI controller. But I wonder which has the better piano, EP, and basic rompler sounds (brass, strings, etc,).

 

(I'm also curious about any relative pros and cons of their synth implementations. Roland at least has an edge their via their iPad app.)

[Adan]

Tried one out today in GC. Not impressed with the velocity response of the piano or epiano sounds, but it is about the same in that respect as the current Junos. I've always liked Rolands clavs, but that's just me.

 

Organ sounded pretty good. Sounds like the VK engine with a significantly improved leslie effect. I could definitely live with it.

 

Action works well enough for organ to call this thing a clone. Obviously you won't get you're best chops out of it, but from my perspective this board isn't about doing one's best, it's about doing "good enough."

 

If they fix the expression pedal thing, I'd buy one today. If they don't, I still might eventually buy one, but it wouldn't be an easy decision.

[Craig MacDonald]

hey maybe someone could inlighten me on this point. ive always been a piano/synth based player and never really got into organ rooted music till recently. can you guys explain to me why the volume pedal is so important for organ playing if we have velocity sensitive keys? i understand the reason on old school organs where there was no volume sensitivy, but nowadays, is there still a purpose other than keeping it genuine to the origional?

i have an expression pedal and would be intrested in learing how to use it with the organ. thnks

 

Remember that expression is different than volume.. as the expression pedal goes down you get more grit, distortion, overdrive.. and organ itself is NOT touch sensitive, and organ players have developed techniques using expression pedal, as well as manipulating drawbars AND percussion to take an instrument that essentially does not have the expressiveness of an acoustic instrument, and make it expressive.