Roland V-Combo VR-09

[JoJoB3]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

If you could live without the 9th physical drawbar and high trigger, Fantom-06/07 could hit the mark. Other than that, the Hammond SK Pro would probably be the other most viable contender, if you're okay with the polyphonic synth sounds being sample-based rather than VA (still fully editable, though, i.e. in terms of envelopes, filters, LFO, etc.). Still, you're in the range of double the weight and double the price. But it pretty much does address the main VR shortcomings (e.g. in terms of split functionality, multiple effects, patch selection, action, drawbar feel, MIDI functionality).

 

But of course, there's much to be said for making the most of what you've already paid for, too. 🙂

 

 

Let's ask organists if they're cool with removing all 9th DBs (a guess but I think I know the answer). Not that the Fantom isn't nice in it's own right.

I'm not sure just how loud Roland expected their updated VRs to answer the RED guys wares with better feeling keybed but it does.  When a 12lb $600-700 product fits the bill for most shows (better synth sect, strings, and 1-1 ctrl too) it should be applauded (cuz there's some absolute Roland duds among). *in re to stage boards.

But - there is a real problem in that there's no dedicated buttons to switch percussion aspects and c/v separately on the VR's.

[AnotherScott]

43 minutes ago, JoJoB3 said:

Let's ask organists if they're cool with removing all 9th DBs (a guess but I think I know the answer). Not that the Fantom isn't nice in it's own right.

 

There is an on-screen touch-activated slider for the 9th drawbar, so it's not like it's completely inaccessible... but yes, it's an unfortunate omission... and you can't even assign the function to one of the knobs.

[voxpops]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Though even just in terms of the split function, there are serious trade-offs... neither is a great board for split purposes. Yes, the Roland beats the Nord in allowing you to freely place a split. OTOH, unlike the Stage, it limits you to only one split vs. multiple, and the two sounds you split don't have independent effects, and you can generally only have one sound on either side of the split (you mostly can't split and layer simultaneously), you can't send your split sounds to different outputs, you have less flexibility in easily recalling your saved split arrangements if you have a significant number of them (e.g. only 4 select buttons, a bank-up button but no bank-down, no selection via MIDI)... to me, that's a lot of split-beneficial functionality you have to lose to get that one other split function you want. I understand, that's the single most over-riding need for you, but to me, if I cared that much about split functionality to begin with to rule out the Nord, I'd probably rule out the Roland as well. 😉 

 

 

Yes, all those extra features on the Nord are what you pay the big bucks for. The reason I didn't rule out the Roland was because I have always used it above a board that was capable of multiple splits over 88 keys. For the last 6 years that has been the Kurzweil SP6, which is capable of 4 zones (and I frequently use them all). I don't need the Roland to have more than a single split - but I do need to determine exactly where that is.  As for the lack of a bank-down button, I just grab the multi-function dial and scroll back as it always defaults to registration.

 

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

If you could live without the 9th physical drawbar and high trigger, Fantom-06/07 could hit the mark. Other than that, the Hammond SK Pro would probably be the other most viable contender, if you're okay with the polyphonic synth sounds being sample-based rather than VA (still fully editable, though, i.e. in terms of envelopes, filters, LFO, etc.). Still, you're in the range of double the weight and double the price. But it pretty much does address the main VR shortcomings (e.g. in terms of split functionality, multiple effects, patch selection, action, drawbar feel, MIDI functionality).

 

But of course, there's much to be said for making the most of what you've already paid for, too. 🙂

 

 

 

At a pinch I could make do with 8 drawbars, but it would annoy me! I briefly tried the flagship Fantom 8 that I liked very much... except for the size, weight and price. I haven't yet had a chance to play the 06/07 and when my two VRs eventually bite the dust I'll probably want to be looking at something a little more upmarket. When I first bought the VR there was practically nothing else out there that could compete and so I've learned to live with its shortcomings over the years. As for the SK Pro, it's something that's on my radar.

[franky64]

On 8/22/2024 at 5:27 PM, JoJoB3 said:

@franky64  Separate question about the VR series and CTRLR + Panel (win/PC here).
I haven't messed with CTRLR yet but is it true using this I could get the added sounds found in the VR-730 on the VR09 and be retained on the 09 via registration saving?
 

It's not true:  what it true is that the 730 extra sounds are in 'VR09 GM-engine'. But GM-engine sounds cannot be saved 'directly' in VR registrations.

if you want to use the 730 extra sounds in VR09  in a 'live' situation you must use 'tools', e.g. :
- external midi keyboard that a runs into 'VR GM engine'
- ctrlr editor connected permanently (Mac/Win laptop, tablet): ctrlr editor can load GM sounds directly into VR. This 'load' can be triggered by VR registrations (calling a reg sends a prg change to editor that executes the load-action)
 

If using 'live tools' is not an option for you:
you can use ctrlr  to load  '730 exclusive patches' to VR09 and take a sniff You cannot save them to registrations and take VR to a gig though

But understand: out of the 23 'excluseive 730 patches' only a few are 'interesting' (Y2K piano-str, Water-EP, Pluck-Synth ..)
The 'added value' of ctrlr is not those handful of 'hidden 730 patches'  but the hundreds of hidden sounds and features - which all save to registations.
 

[franky64]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:19 PM, voxpops said:

Just a note regarding the swell pedal issue. I have a cheap M-Audio pedal and there's a switch on the bottom to go between "M-Audio" and "other." Counterintuitively, if the pedal is switched to "M-Audio" it works quite well with the VR-09 (useless with "other"). No need to disassemble and use some sort of electronic voodoo! They're not the most ruggedly built pedals, but I've had mine (and a spare) for years with no problem.

 

this 'polarity' of pedals is not the issue we are talking about.
the issue is that pedals reach 'max volume' at mid position so half of the pedal travel is unused.
It's an unbelievably stupid Roland 'design gaffe'.

[franky64]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:49 PM, ProfD said:

Roland basically came up with an Electro-lite. 🤣😎

that's what Rolands crave 

[voxpops]

43 minutes ago, franky64 said:

 

this 'polarity' of pedals is not the issue we are talking about.
the issue is that pedals reach 'max volume' at mid position so half of the pedal travel is unused.
It's an unbelievably stupid Roland 'design gaffe'.

 

That's exactly the issue the M-Audio pedal solves. I was not talking about polarity switching but the two different volume curves that are built into the M-Audio. It also has a rotary pot to control the minimum volume values.

 

Edit: I've just checked the M-Audio website and it does indeed state that it's a polarity switch, which is weird because it does not reverse the operation on the VR - simply makes the volume curve unacceptable! Nonetheless, with it set to "M-Audio" it works well and does not exhibit the issue you mention. What's more it's the cheapest pedal out there and so little is lost by purchasing one to test.

[franky64]

17 minutes ago, voxpops said:

 

That's exactly the issue the M-Audio pedal solves. I was not talking about polarity switching but the two different volume curves that are built into the M-Audio. It also has a rotary pot to control the minimum volume values.

2 different volume curves? Are we talking about this one?

https://www.thomann.co.uk/maudio_expression_pedal.htm

[voxpops]

1 minute ago, franky64 said:

2 different volume curves? Are we talking about this one?

https://www.thomann.co.uk/maudio_expression_pedal.htm

 

Yes, that's it. Whether intentionally or not, when used with the Roland the switch changes the curve. I have used it once or twice with "other" but the volume hits max way too quickly.

[voxpops]

I've just been to run a quick test and I would say that the M-Audio pedal (set to "M-Audio") hits maximum volume at around 2/3 to 3/4 of the travel, which to me is not perfect but acceptable.

 

I suppose that adding a rubber stopper of the correct height would mean that, at the penalty of reducing the total travel arc, you could set the pedal to hit max almost at the end of the travel range.

 

As an aside, I have tried to use it with my Vox swell pedal, but it doesn't work using the TRS connector (presumably it's the wrong polarity).

[franky64]

3 hours ago, voxpops said:

 

Yes, that's it. Whether intentionally or not, when used with the Roland the switch changes the curve. I have used it once or twice with "other" but the volume hits max way too quickly.

 

errh, the switch does not change curve but simply polarity : it swaps tip with ring.
the M-Audio was the first pedal that served to 'measure' the VR bug, and the first to be 'modified' - "measurement" does not mean 'feel' but data: voltage, resistance, midi CC11 value, in dependance of the angle of the pedal in degrees: 
'VR max volume' - CC11 = 127 is reached at near exact 'pedal mid position': at "1/2 rotation of the potentionmeter" - or a probe voltage of 2.4 V (instead of 4.8V).

The EXP is just one of simlilary built 'low cost pedals' (including Roland EV5 - which is, from 'build quality', a low cost pedal):
'generic' pedal mechanics, linear pot of  10-12 kOhm (M-Audio 12 kOhm, Roland ca 11kOhm), shunt resistor of 1-2 kOhm, volume offset pot 50kOhm

The bug applies to all pedals, be it 10kOhm (EV5, M-Audio), 20 kOhm (Bespeco), 50kOhm (Behringer, Yamaha FC7) potentiometers

 

ok, do you see the small electric board in the middle of the pic? That's the 'switch' : it only exchanges tip and ring (red/white wires), nothing else (no 'curve'). OK?

The red circle shows the 'most simple mod': just one 10kOhm (approximately) resistor: this corrects max vol  from pedal mid position to pedal fully pressed.
You can fine tune the pedal reducing (unused) idle at pedal 'min'  by adding a 2nd resistor.
There are 'resistor sizes' (for both resistors) given on V-Combo website for M-Audio, Bespeco, Behringer (my own 'adjusted' pedals).

[JoJoB3]

1 hour ago, franky64 said:

 

errh, the switch does not change curve but simply polarity : it swaps tip with ring.
the M-Audio was the first pedal that served to 'measure' the VR bug, and the first to be 'modified' - "measurement" does not mean 'feel' but data: voltage, resistance, midi CC11 value, in dependance of the angle of the pedal in degrees: 
'VR max volume' - CC11 = 127 is reached at near exact 'pedal mid position': at "1/2 rotation of the potentionmeter" - or a probe voltage of 2.4 V (instead of 4.8V).

The EXP is just one of simlilary built 'low cost pedals' (including Roland EV5 - which is, from 'build quality', a low cost pedal):
'generic' pedal mechanics, linear pot of  10-12 kOhm (M-Audio 12 kOhm, Roland ca 11kOhm), shunt resistor of 1-2 kOhm, volume offset pot 50kOhm

The bug applies to all pedals, be it 10kOhm (EV5, M-Audio), 20 kOhm (Bespeco), 50kOhm (Behringer, Yamaha FC7) potentiometers

 

ok, do you see the small electric board in the middle of the pic? That's the 'switch' : it only exchanges tip and ring (red/white wires), nothing else (no 'curve'). OK?

The red circle shows the 'most simple mod': just one 10kOhm (approximately) resistor: this corrects max vol  from pedal mid position to pedal fully pressed.
You can fine tune the pedal reducing (unused) idle at pedal 'min'  by adding a 2nd resistor.
There are 'resistor sizes' (for both resistors) given on V-Combo website for M-Audio, Bespeco, Behringer (my own 'adjusted' pedals).

At the same time....this is one of Rolands most heinous of mistakes. So unnecessary but now necessary.

[voxpops]

10 hours ago, franky64 said:

 

errh, the switch does not change curve but simply polarity : it swaps tip with ring.
the M-Audio was the first pedal that served to 'measure' the VR bug, and the first to be 'modified' - "measurement" does not mean 'feel' but data: voltage, resistance, midi CC11 value, in dependance of the angle of the pedal in degrees: 
'VR max volume' - CC11 = 127 is reached at near exact 'pedal mid position': at "1/2 rotation of the potentionmeter" - or a probe voltage of 2.4 V (instead of 4.8V).

The EXP is just one of simlilary built 'low cost pedals' (including Roland EV5 - which is, from 'build quality', a low cost pedal):
'generic' pedal mechanics, linear pot of  10-12 kOhm (M-Audio 12 kOhm, Roland ca 11kOhm), shunt resistor of 1-2 kOhm, volume offset pot 50kOhm

The bug applies to all pedals, be it 10kOhm (EV5, M-Audio), 20 kOhm (Bespeco), 50kOhm (Behringer, Yamaha FC7) potentiometers

 

ok, do you see the small electric board in the middle of the pic? That's the 'switch' : it only exchanges tip and ring (red/white wires), nothing else (no 'curve'). OK?

The red circle shows the 'most simple mod': just one 10kOhm (approximately) resistor: this corrects max vol  from pedal mid position to pedal fully pressed.
You can fine tune the pedal reducing (unused) idle at pedal 'min'  by adding a 2nd resistor.
There are 'resistor sizes' (for both resistors) given on V-Combo website for M-Audio, Bespeco, Behringer (my own 'adjusted' pedals).

 

Franky, I don't dispute any of your findings, I simply report my experience. I'm sure you're correct about polarity, but I have found that the VR responds to the M-Audio pedal in a "normal" fashion, albeit poorly, when switched to "other," whereas my Vox pedal will not function at all - and I have no idea why that is, as I have no technical knowledge. I also fully accept that adding a resistor will improve performance as you state, which is extremely useful for anyone who is irritated by the way the VR interfaces with expression pedals. 

 

I was wondering why I find the M-Audio pedal usable as is and I think I know the reason for this. Decades ago, when I used to play Hammond C3s etc. in clubs, the pedal would not travel to a fully horizontal position. So, having always played seated, I find it unnatural to play with the pedal in that horizontal position - it's a little uncomfortable for the ankle. I prefer to have my foot at an angle for full swell and reduce it from there. I can do that with the pedals I have without getting an unexpected drop in volume. It's just the way I like to play, but yes, it does mean that travel distance is shorter up to full swell.

[brenner13]

I’ve had the same experience as voxpops with the M-Audio pedal, however mine shorted out and a friend put on a new cable with much thicker wire and it now seems to work even better than I remember before the transplant. And I must again attest how great the ultra-rare Roland EV7 swell pedal feels. Such a long throw gives me control to pulse with the beat. LOVE IT!!!

[franky64]

1 hour ago, voxpops said:

 

I have found that the VR responds to the M-Audio pedal in a "normal" fashion, albeit poorly, when switched to "other," whereas my Vox pedal will not function at all -

 

don't get me wrong neither: I'm just too 'scientific' biased -  if there's unexplicable, the reason MUST be identified  

1) Vox pedal (I suppose V861 that comes with new Foxes?) :  how does it 'react' on VR09, can you describe?

 

2) M-Audio
polarity switch 'M-Audio' = Roland type

polarity switch 'Other' = Yamaha type (if you plug a stock FC7 to VR it won't work neither)
 

Let's look at the 'measurement' of the 'travel' of M-Audio EX-P 'stock' pedal: it's measured  at the 'toe end' of the pedal with a simple ruler:

•  total mechanical travel: 42mm (this is pedal fully released/fully pressed)
•  'electrically effective' travel: 33mm  (this is where the potentiometer changes its resistance)
•  effective 'volume' travel on VR09:   10mm (this is the travel for VR09 min volume to max volume)

so - from a mechancial throw of over 4 cm the stock M-Audio uses only 1 cm to regulate VR volume, the other 3 cm are 'idle' (unused)
After the mod (fine tuned with 2 resistors), the 'effective 'volume' travel on VR09'  reaches the full (electrically) usable  travel of  33 mm:

• stock: usable travel: 10 mm
• modded: usable travel: 33 mm

I would call this 'significant'
The mod had been applied by serveral people for different pedal types with the same results.
Example: on Behringer FCV, the mod increases the 'usable travel' from 3 cm to 6 cm

 

Actually there is only you and Brenner who experienced 'correctly working stock pedals on VR' :
could it be that there had been a 'final production batch' of VRs where Roland had fixed the issue???
(it's not related to model change sans-B/with-B though :  all VR09, VR09B and VR730 are reported to 'have ze bug' )

Well, life is extremly simple: those who are fine with their pedal just use it.
Those who are annoyed by the 'reduced throw' can apply the mod if they want.

BTW: if you want you can 'test' your M-Audio yourself - in fact it would be highly interesting to see if there exist  'fixed VRs':
you need a ruler, a 'midi monitor app' (for PC, ipad, Android ...) and a 'usb printer cable'







 

 

[voxpops]

49 minutes ago, franky64 said:

 

don't get me wrong neither: I'm just too 'scientific' biased -  if there's unexplicable, the reason MUST be identified  

1) Vox pedal (I suppose V861 that comes with new Foxes?) :  how does it 'react' on VR09, can you describe?

 

2) M-Audio
polarity switch 'M-Audio' = Roland type

polarity switch 'Other' = Yamaha type (if you plug a stock FC7 to VR it won't work neither)
 

Let's look at the 'measurement' of the 'travel' of M-Audio EX-P 'stock' pedal: it's measured  at the 'toe end' of the pedal with a simple ruler:

•  total mechanical travel: 42mm (this is pedal fully released/fully pressed)
•  'electrically effective' travel: 33mm  (this is where the potentiometer changes its resistance)
•  effective 'volume' travel on VR09:   10mm (this is the travel for VR09 min volume to max volume)

so - from a mechancial throw of over 4 cm the stock M-Audio uses only 1 cm to regulate VR volume, the other 3 cm are 'idle' (unused)
After the mod (fine tuned with 2 resistors), the 'effective 'volume' travel on VR09'  reaches the full (electrically) usable  travel of  33 mm:

• stock: usable travel: 10 mm
• modded: usable travel: 33 mm

I would call this 'significant'
The mod had been applied by serveral people for different pedal types with the same results.
Example: on Behringer FCV, the mod increases the 'usable travel' from 3 cm to 6 cm

 

Actually there is only you and Brenner who experienced 'correctly working stock pedals on VR' :
could it be that there had been a 'final production batch' of VRs where Roland had fixed the issue???
(it's not related to model change sans-B/with-B though :  all VR09, VR09B and VR730 are reported to 'have ze bug' )

Well, life is extremly simple: those who are fine with their pedal just use it.
Those who are annoyed by the 'reduced throw' can apply the mod if they want.

BTW: if you want you can 'test' your M-Audio yourself - in fact it would be highly interesting to see if there exist  'fixed VRs':
you need a ruler, a 'midi monitor app' (for PC, ipad, Android ...) and a 'usb printer cable'







 

 

 

Franky, just to confirm, my Vox pedal is indeed the 861. When I tested it with the VR yesterday, it defaulted to full volume and operating the pedal made no difference. I'll try to run your suggested test on the M-Audio when I get a chance, but I can say with some certainty that my experience is not down to the VR batch. I've had 4 of them since around the end of 2013 (one of them in America and three in the UK) and I still possess two. They have all functioned the same way with my two M-Audio pedals. I think it's more likely down to the fact that I'm more tolerant of both the VR's and the pedal's limitations!

[voxpops]

1 hour ago, voxpops said:

 

Franky, just to confirm, my Vox pedal is indeed the 861. When I tested it with the VR yesterday, it defaulted to full volume and operating the pedal made no difference. I'll try to run your suggested test on the M-Audio when I get a chance, but I can say with some certainty that my experience is not down to the VR batch. I've had 4 of them since around the end of 2013 (one of them in America and three in the UK) and I still possess two. They have all functioned the same way with my two M-Audio pedals. I think it's more likely down to the fact that I'm more tolerant of both the VR's and the pedal's limitations!

 

Franky, I've just run the test a number of times using the MIDI monitor in Pianoteq. 

 

When set to "M-AUDIO" with the volume range on full, from rest the pedal travels 2.5cm (of a total 4 cm travel on my pedal) to reach value 127 (changing from 0-1 at 9mm).

 

When set to "other" with the volume range on full, the pedal travels 1.2 cm (of a total 4cm travel) from rest to value 127.

 

So essentially, the pedal still works on "other" but the range is halved.

 

The 2.5cm of travel to value 127 is a fraction short of 2/3 the total distance and I can see that the "lost" 1.5cm could be problematic for some. However, I wonder whether a number of people have it set to "other," which would render it extremely over-sensitive.

 

(I just double-checked the Vox pedal with the VR in the MIDI monitor and that only changes from about value 120 to 127, and does so right at the beginning of travel. One day I'll make a reverse-polarity cable to test it properly with the VR. When I reconnected it to the Conti I checked its normal functioning, and over a total of 40mm travel it changes from 0-1 at 6.5mm and reaches 127 6.5mm from the end of the travel range. So compared to the VR/M-Audio combination you have 33.5mm travel from rest to 127 with the Vox/Conti combination as opposed to 25mm for the VR/M-Audio.)

[franky64]

1 hour ago, voxpops said:

 

Franky, I've just run the test a number of times using the MIDI monitor in Pianoteq. 

 

When set to "M-AUDIO" with the volume range on full, from rest the pedal travels 2.5cm (of a total 4 cm travel on my pedal) to reach value 127 (changing from 0-1 at 9mm).

 

When set to "other" with the volume range on full, the pedal travels 1.2 cm (of a total 4cm travel) from rest to value 127.

 

So essentially, the pedal still works on "other" but the range is halved.

 

The 2.5cm of travel to value 127 is a fraction short of 2/3 the total distance and I can see that the "lost" 1.5cm could be problematic for some. However, I wonder whether a number of people have it set to "other," which would render it extremely over-sensitive.

 

(I just double-checked the Vox pedal with the VR in the MIDI monitor and that only changes from about value 120 to 127, and does so right at the beginning of travel. One day I'll make a reverse-polarity cable to test it properly with the VR. When I reconnected it to the Conti I checked its normal functioning, and over a total of 40mm travel it changes from 0-1 at 6.5mm and reaches 127 6.5mm from the end of the travel range. So compared to the VR/M-Audio combination you have 33.5mm travel from rest to 127 with the Vox/Conti combination as opposed to 25mm for the VR/M-Audio.)

 

 

yes ! we advance

1) when you say:
"from rest the pedal travels 2.5cm [...] to reach value 127" : does 'rest' mean from the 'mecanical rest position' or from the moment you see midi values becoming > 0 ?
with other words: is 2.5cm the 'working travel', ot is it 2.5 -  9  = 1.6 

2) Vox pedal:

I havent found any spec about its 'polarity' but it has a 50kOhm pot like my Behringer - test test test: 
the Behringer (without mod and in 'wrong' Yamaha-polarity) jumps from 80 to 127 within the first ~3 milimeters and stays at 127 for the rest of travel
very simliar to your Vox  - so the Vox is very likely  'yamaha wired'

3.) btw have you noticed: there's another CC paring CC11 : it's CC43: it's 'expression double precession' (the lsb buddy of CC11 msb): it's possible that VR accepts high resolution expression signal.



 

[voxpops]

Just now, franky64 said:

 

 

yes ! we advance

1) when you say:
"from rest the pedal travels 2.5cm [...] to reach value 127" : does 'rest' mean from the 'mecanical rest position' or from the moment you see midi values becoming > 0 ?
with other words: is 2.5cm the 'working travel', ot is it 2.5 -  9  = 1.6 

2) Vox pedal:

I havent found any spec about its 'polarity' but it has a 50kOhm pot like my Behringer - test test test: 
the Behringer (without mod and in 'wrong' Yamaha-polarity) jumps from 80 to 127 within the first ~3 milimeters and stays at 127 for the rest of travel
very simliar to your Vox  - so the Vox is very likely  'yamaha wired'

3.) btw have you noticed: there's another CC paring CC11 : it's CC43: it's 'expression double precession' (the lsb buddy of CC11 msb): it's possible that VR accepts high resolution expression signal.



 

 

1) Yes, the mechanical rest position, so the working travel is 1.6cm.

 

2) I assumed it is similar to the Yamaha as many Korg accessories have been in the past.

 

3) Yes, I saw that and wondered what the heck that was about!

[franky64]

1 hour ago, voxpops said:

 

1) Yes, the mechanical rest position, so the working travel is 1.6cm.

it 'matches' : checked my notes: to be precise:
travel from CC11 =0 just before it swaps to CC11=1  up to CC=127 : 1.3 cm
travel from where you 'hear' the first sound (headphones on VR) to CC=127:   1.0 cm
---
this picture shows M-Audio with 2 little 'trim pots' instead of 2 constant resistors: this allows to tune the pedal by means of a screwdriver
you just have to take care to 'secure' the trim pots in the housing to avoid that impacts on the pedal bent the fragile pins.
one 20kOhm and one 10kOhm pot is fine for M-Audio/EV5/Nektar, Behrigern, FCV (Vox ;)) need a 100kOhm and 10kOhm pot

 

[voxpops]

7 minutes ago, franky64 said:

it 'matches' : checked my notes: to be precise:
travel from CC11 =0 just before it swaps to CC11=1  up to CC=127 : 1.3 cm
travel from where you 'hear' the first sound (headphones on VR) to CC=127:   1.0 cm
---
this picture shows M-Audio with 2 little 'trim pots' instead of 2 constant resistors: this allows to tune the pedal by means of a screwdriver
you just have to take care to 'secure' the trim pots in the housing to avoid that impacts on the pedal bent the fragile pins.
one 20kOhm and one 10kOhm pot is fine for M-Audio/EV5/Nektar, Behrigern, FCV (Vox ;)) need a 100kOhm and 10kOhm pot

 

 

All really useful information, Franky. Thanks for the interesting dialogue!

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, voxpops said:

I assumed it is similar to the Yamaha as many Korg accessories have been in the past.

 

Yes, I think Yamaha and Korg expression pedals are always properly compatible with each other (and never with Roland), Which is pretty much opposite of the damper pedals where the on/off Yamaha and Roland are compatible with each other but not Korg. (And for half/continuous damper pedal, I don't think anyone's is compatible with anyone else's.)

[voxpops]

1 minute ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Yes, I think Yamaha and Korg expression pedals are always properly compatible with each other (and never with Roland), Which is pretty much opposite of the damper pedals where the on/off Yamaha and Roland are compatible with each other but not Korg. (And for half/continuous damper pedal, I don't think anyone's is compatible with anyone else's.)

 

Scott, that's right. That said, I use a Korg half-damper pedal with my SP6 (Kurzweil only offers a standard pedal) and the Roland DP-10 with the Numa X Piano, although Studiologic do make their own triple-pedal unit with half-damper on the righthand pedal.

[franky64]

44 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 (And for half/continuous damper pedal, I don't think anyone's is compatible with anyone else's.)

very likely in most cases also a question of 'polarity'. Halfdampers usually do work like 'expression pedals' - a stupid potentiometer, a TRS plug ...
VR is responsive to 'half damper' (for acoustic pianos) -  you can plug the expression pedal into the damper socket - and you get a veeeery smooth sustain cutoff.
(on pure on/off pedals VR still has a smooth damper release by emulating several sustain pedal steps)
 

[franky64]

On 8/21/2024 at 9:00 AM, drivanov2003 said:

Dear franky64, thank you for yours reply, and dedication!

I will start digging in the KeyPro88 Advanced Guide about the range of CCs.

 

editor with 'drawbar value mapping' (still same version v1.12.23) for download. Pls read the (?) info popup that explains the options:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_CJVGF0tACCxr1m0Y5yw7YLWEg1bvMF0?usp=drive_link

[drivanov2003]

Dear Franky, Thank you!

Unfortunately, i will not be available near my VR09 for a few weeks, so a will be late with the feedback.

I try to find some information in the Advanced Guide, but nothing is mentioned... and again i was not near to my equipment.

Anyway - thank you! - that was so kind!

 

Up the Hammonds!

 

[franky64]

2 hours ago, drivanov2003 said:

Dear Franky, Thank you!

Unfortunately, i will not be available near my VR09 for a few weeks, so a will be late with the feedback.

I try to find some information in the Advanced Guide, but nothing is mentioned... and again i was not near to my equipment.

Anyway - thank you! - that was so kind!

 

Up the Hammonds!

 

 

no problemo, we're not in a race

Keystation:  very surprising for a "Pro" controller. Even the once tested Oxygen ProMini had min/max values.
so finally it was missing a feature in editor:  you can 'value map' 0-127 to 0-8 and invert 'fader mode' from 'fader slide up' to 'drawbar pull down'.

 

when the time has come to try on the boards, re-download editor , for  sure there will be new addons in the midi mapper

 

 

[mrk7421]

Hey ...I am still up for talking about the VR09 especially since I found out that the chorus vibrato warbly percussion issue was fixed a few years back. Hammond Suzuki people love to bitch about Roland clonewheels but I always liked the sound since the VK8. I recently heard a YouTube clip of Lonnie Jordan of War playing a VK8 and it NAILS his his classic sound of All Day Music etc. And if the VR09 really does have an organ engine equal to THAT I need to get my hands on one . I did get a VR760 recently but still cannot get a lower manual split ...........................but upper manual has really surprised me.....great CV and better Leslie sim than I remember from the VK8m I had. Is the VR09 in that league?

[voxpops]

4 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

Hey ...I am still up for talking about the VR09 especially since I found out that the chorus vibrato warbly percussion issue was fixed a few years back. Hammond Suzuki people love to bitch about Roland clonewheels but I always liked the sound since the VK8. I recently heard a YouTube clip of Lonnie Jordan of War playing a VK8 and it NAILS his his classic sound of All Day Music etc. And if the VR09 really does have an organ engine equal to THAT I need to get my hands on one . I did get a VR760 recently but still cannot get a lower manual split ...........................but upper manual has really surprised me.....great CV and better Leslie sim than I remember from the VK8m I had. Is the VR09 in that league?

 

Both the VR-09 and the VR-760 use the VK7 engine that first appeared in 1997. The VK8 was a later development. My only criticism of the VR-09's organ sound, bearing in mind the cost and weight of the board, is that it's a little thinner and less electro-mechanical sounding than some fully-fledged clonewheels. However, the Leslie emulation is really very good (particularly Rotary 3) and CV is acceptable. There are still very few boards that can do what the VR-09 does and if you can live with the keyboard action (or can afford the VR-730) then it's an extremely useful little tool.

[mrk7421]

I don't know ....I am not sure that the VK7 is the same engine as the VK8 or the VR760. I have renewed interest in Roland clonewheels after picking up a 760 at a price almost too good to pass up.The 760 is very impressive .....I had a VK8m and I don't remember the Leslie sim sounding this good. The 760 seems to have Superior electronics or something.....also interesting is that all the keys play organ tones.  But there is the aggravating issue that it will not do upper and lower split...I just don't get it