Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

Has anyone here purchased their VR-09 from Sweetwater and received their bonus VR-09 registrations..? Just finished watching the demo and they look interesting.. they seem very different from the Roland Cover Band Collection, less synth programming (actually it seems like no synth programming) and mostly splits and layers..

 

Does anyone have these and if so what do you think of them?

[Bossbandbob]

I am happy with the sound of VB3's internal Leslie sim used with an Axiom controller and footpedal in a Classic Rock Band context. Would I be just as happy with the Roland VR-09's Leslie sim? Or happier?

[Craig MacDonald]

VB3 has a better leslie sim, and its more authentic sounding overall, however the VR09 sim is quite good.. you need to listen to it and judge for yourself!

[Bossbandbob]

Thanks Craig,

Seems like GC has them in stock now. I may just head down there and do that.

[Craig MacDonald]

Thanks Craig,

Seems like GC has them in stock now. I may just head down there and do that.

 

YES Definitely go and try for yourself.. As far as I am concerned the Crumar Mojo (based on VB3 Crumar Edition V2) is the best sounding Hammond clone in existence, and the original VB3 is awesome too (best $50 I ever spent).

 

As I said you're not going to find that the VR-09 organ or leslie sim is as good as VB3.. no way.. however the question is, how far off is it and is it worth the compromise in sound quality for the convenience of all that you get with the VR-09.. you'll basically be trading the laptop (and issues of HW/SW), midi/audio interface, controller, midi cables etc. for a 12 pound all-in-one keyboard that does a lot more than just cover drawbar organ!

 

Some people won't be willing to make this compromise, but others will jump at it! I love my VR-09 but it's "$999 worth of love" if you know what I mean.. If the VR-09 cost $1899 I'm not sure I'd love it at that price point.. it's all relative. VB3 is the best Hammond VST available at this time, and you're comparing that to the VR-09 which is the lowest priced drawbar organ available at this time..

 

Last but not least.. some people love the VK/VR engine sound and some don't.. I really don't, but I've come to like it a lot better given this new price point.. and I find it to be quite workable in certain gig situations and certain applications.. but it's not my regular gigging organ.. It's my backup keyboard, and I use it at very small gigs or rehearsals where I just want to set up an X stand and go. It's also a great keyboard if you're on a tight budget!

 

Bossbandbob, there is lot's to like about the VR-09, but it also has some quirks and limitations.. I love the weight, and the versatility of it at the $999 price point. It's awesome value.. but great value doesn't = the best. You need to decide what's best for your needs.

[High Diving Act]

+1 everything Craig said above.. But you gotta try it out yourself. Personally I found the organ tone of the vr09 better than vb3 in an instance or 2 but overall vb3 is superior. Particularly when it came to leslie Sim and overdrive vb3 wins.

[Kevmo]

Yeh i already had a Vent so Vr was perfect for me

[Bossbandbob]

Yeah ,

I have a Vent too. But I have been happy doing VB3 without it as it is one less thing to hook up and deal with.

[earl the pearl]

so let me see. If I save my regs. to one memory stick and input the Cover Band on another,what becomes of my originals. Do I input them again? or just play with that stick in? Confused.

[Craig MacDonald]

Earl. the problem is with the synth data, the cover band collection loads a new vrsyn001.dat file and this overwrites your original synth data (all the deep synth parameters). If you haven't used the ipad editor to edit your synth sounds, then you probably won't have a problem.

 

Do this... save your registrations on one usb stick and then load the new cover band collection on to a different stick and then load them into the vr-09 from that stick. once this is done, if you like the cover band collection and you want to keep it in your vr-09, then simply load your original registrations back in one at a time (using "load individual registration" function) and you should be fine because I don't think that loading an individual registration overwrites the vrsyn001.dat file. It will take a few minutes to reload your registrations in one at a time but it will be worth it to correctly combine your old and new registrations.

 

Once this is done double check all of your original registrations to make sure they sound correct (remember that the synth sounds may have changed) and if they're ok you're golden. If some are not ok you may have to edit the synth sounds using the editor to restore them.

[Kevmo]

Is it just me or is all this work & risk of data loss way too much for a couple of meh patches

The Sweetwater sounds interest me more a lot more,

[jcazzy]

Craig, does the VR-09 not work with an external USB to access user registrations like the GAIA does or am I missing something here?

[Craig MacDonald]

Is it just me or is all this work & risk of data loss way too much for a couple of meh patches

The Sweetwater sounds interest me more a lot more,

 

If you dont need these sounds than i would say they're not worth the hassle...

[Craig MacDonald]

Craig, does the VR-09 not work with an external USB to access user registrations like the GAIA does or am I missing something here?

Jcazzy,

 

No the VR-09 works a bit differently.. on the GAIA every new sound/program is deep synth data.. whereas on the VR-09 a registration is NOT necessarily deep synth data, it's higher level information such as upper program/lower program, split point or perhaps ADSR settings on a synth patch.. for example a registration on the VR-09 does not always save PCM wave type because some registrations may simply be an organ/piano split.. but deep synth data is fundamental to every GAIA program. IF a VR-09 registration does have deep synth edits, they are contained in one master VRSYN001.DAT file on the usb stick (it's not saved by registration) but this file contains ALL deep synth data for all the synth programs on the VR-09.. Very different architecture than the GAIA.

[jcazzy]

Ah, I see what you are talking about. Would that not be a nice feature to have though? Although the GAIA is not in the league of a Moog, ARP or other legacy synths, it does the job well for what it is.

[Laurence]

I just discovered something pretty cool. If I plug in my VR-09 USB to an iPad with the USB camera connector kit, it shows up as a midi interface.

[Kevmo]

So how is this useful ?

[nadroj]

I read something somewhere, but can't find it, so I'll quickly ask here: Do the drawbars on the VR-09 transmit MIDI? Ie. Could they be used as sliders to control a DAW?

[Laurence]

The fact that the VR-09 functions like a generic USB midi interface is very cool, but I am frustrated because I can't turn midi local control off, which would be important for anyone actually trying to use the VR-09 for sequencing backing parts.

 

The way this would be useful is in programing backing midi parts that could be loaded on a USB memory thumb drive.

 

I have a question posted in the VR-09 blog about turning local midi control off, but I have a sinking feeling that this isn't an option.

[brenner13]

Sadly no MIDI send functions for the drawbars or effects knobs. Nor do the octave buttons correlate through MIDI. Some kind of wicked controller this could have been...especially with the camera kit midi function for iPad apps. Guess it would have substantially added cost.

[Craig MacDonald]

The fact that the VR-09 functions like a generic USB midi interface is very cool, but I am frustrated because I can't turn midi local control off, which would be important for anyone actually trying to use the VR-09 for sequencing backing parts.

 

The way this would be useful is in programing backing midi parts that could be loaded on a USB memory thumb drive.

 

I have a question posted in the VR-09 blog about turning local midi control off, but I have a sinking feeling that this isn't an option.

Laurence your post has confused me.. I thought that the VR-09 was already capable of being used for backing parts.. because it has both a GM2 synth built in (which can be accessed via midi) and it has an audio file player built in that can play wave and mp3 files from the USB stick. What other functionality does it need? I don't use backing tracks and I haven't tried this so if I'm missing something please let me know thanks.

 

Yes the VR-09 doesn't seem to have local control on/off and neither does it have the ability to receive and transmit midi on different channels. I suppose I can see this being a limitation, depending on how you intend to use it, but I'm not sure that the average user would care about this. Personally, I think that the Drawbars NOT sending CC info is a much bigger deal.

 

[Laurence]

Local off would be useful only in programming the backing tracks. Without it, I guess what you would need to do is use the VR-09 as a midi module with a different master keyboard during the sequencing session.

 

The drawbars not sending CCs is a drag. I guess this really is just a live performance and nothing else instrument. I suppose the organ sounds do receive CC info, and the demo songs must have been done with another controller with drawbars that do send CC data. I can't think of any other way.

 

This is important to me because I also play guitar and was getting ready to sequence some backing tracks.

[Craig MacDonald]

Laurence, I don't think the VR-09 organs receive CC data, I think it uses System Exclusive data for this.. although I could be mistaken.. I don't tend to dig that far into the midi side of things.

[-martin-]

I'm currently looking for my first keyboard and the VR-09 seems to do pretty much every thing I need and within budget.

 

I've played for about 6 months in a classic rock band, transitioning from guitar and come to the level of getting through our setlist without too much struggle

 

I've been looking at adding a Doepfer (http://www.doepfer.de/d3m.htm) keyboard, would it be possible to have it as the upper split? I pretty much just play organ and piano so I was hoping to get away with having organ on the doepfer with effects and piano (w/o effects) on the VR

 

And what do you think the possibility is of seeing a new version at NAMM? Maybe new (cheaper) versions from Nord/Hammond?

[Craig MacDonald]

I'm currently looking for my first keyboard and the VR-09 seems to do pretty much every thing I need and within budget.

 

I've played for about 6 months in a classic rock band, transitioning from guitar and come to the level of getting through our setlist without too much struggle

 

I've been looking at adding a Doepfer (http://www.doepfer.de/d3m.htm) keyboard, would it be possible to have it as the upper split? I pretty much just play organ and piano so I was hoping to get away with having organ on the doepfer with effects and piano (w/o effects) on the VR

 

And what do you think the possibility is of seeing a new version at NAMM? Maybe new (cheaper) versions from Nord/Hammond?

 

Martin, if you're looking for drawbar organ and piano, and you want organ on the upper and piano without effects on the lower, the VR-09 is a perfect budget keyboard for you.. I say that because whatever is on the lower part of a split is without effects.

 

As far as the Doepfer d3M controller goes it should work fine to trigger the organ sounds, but you might want to check on the reliability of it (I have a sense that there may have been some reliability issues with the stuff).. but double check as I could be mistaken.

 

BTW if you've transitioned from playing guitar to keys in 6 months I'm impressed, I wouldn't want to try the reverse.. (But I'm old).. ;-)

 

One quick question... if you're just learning, why are you wanting the waterfall keys.. I understand that it's a more authentic experience for organ, but normally it's the experienced Hammond players that want the waterfall keys.. beginners generally couldn't care less. Going with any number of inexpensive controllers would work fine?

 

I wouldn't expect a replacement or the VR-09 at Namm or anything else on the low end from Hammond (maybe high-end like XK4?). However, NAMM is getting close so you might want to wait just in case.. but remember, often what you see at Namm takes 3-6 months to arrive in the stores.

[brenner13]

Yep, ordered mine in Jan last year, right after NAMM; it arrived in May.

[Craig MacDonald]

I got mine April 18th and I think this was the first one into Canada... general availability was May I think..

[-martin-]

Martin, if you're looking for drawbar organ and piano, and you want organ on the upper and piano without effects on the lower, the VR-09 is a perfect budget keyboard for you.. I say that because whatever is on the lower part of a split is without effects.

Sounds great! The most piano stuff i do for now is slamming keys rapidly in songs like "Whole lotta shakin' (Georgia Sattelites cover)" so no effects really needed

 

As far as the Doepfer d3M controller goes it should work fine to trigger the organ sounds, but you might want to check on the reliability of it (I have a sense that there may have been some reliability issues with the stuff).. but double check as I could be mistaken.

 

...

 

One quick question... if you're just learning, why are you wanting the waterfall keys.. I understand that it's a more authentic experience for organ, but normally it's the experienced Hammond players that want the waterfall keys.. beginners generally couldn't care less. Going with any number of inexpensive controllers would work fine?

Yeah i was thinking of the doepfer just for the waterfall keys and some "authenticity"-feel, but as you say it won't matter much for me (my current keyboard is and old borrowed casio ctk-something) so anything will be better. Will look up possible issues. I'll probably start without it tough and add something later if needed.

 

BTW if you've transitioned from playing guitar to keys in 6 months I'm impressed, I wouldn't want to try the reverse.. (But I'm old).. ;-)

 

Nah, for the moment I'm just capable of playing chords with my right hand and in some songs along with the bass note with the left, still a long way to go

 

I wouldn't expect a replacement or the VR-09 at Namm or anything else on the low end from Hammond (maybe high-end like XK4?). However, NAMM is getting close so you might want to wait just in case.. but remember, often what you see at Namm takes 3-6 months to arrive in the stores.

Ok, I'll wait and see The extra waiting time sucks when you have GAS though...

 

 

 

 

[Stokely]

The fact that a bunch of the clones out there don't transmit midi on the drawbars (or at least in a easily-mappable way) is very irritating. Roland has already done it with the vk series apparently--how hard to add that to the v-combo line? I liked both the v-combo and cx3 for live needs, but I chose the cx3 because it could be a better controller at home with software organs....

[To B3]

About the VR-09 Clavinet: I easily imitated the sounds I needed, aproximating my Nord Electro 2 pickup simulations. Just tweaked the tone, cutoff and compressor and voilá. Works great with the overdrive.

 

Only thing I don't like: I'm addicted to pedal wah and the touch wahs on the VR-09 definetly don't cut for me. I miss that percussive sound when slapping the keys with the pedal up and opening the sound with pedal down when hitting the notes with pedal down. With auto wah, I always get the wah artificially pronounced when slaping the keys, evrytime, the same way, no matter how much I tweak the knob.

 

Any tip to add some "organic" modulation or t tweak the auto wah to make it more pedal like? Maybe some step phaser responds better to what I'm trying to do... As my VR-09 is on its box as I'm moving from my house I can't try it yet... Anyone can help me to achieve somthing similar (I said similar) to this wiith the auto wah or am I dreaming?

 

[video:youtube]