Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Devnor]

They'll fix in an update. The Jupiters operate the same way...front panel transpose with transpose programmed per registration except the Jupiter has master key shift parameter in system settings. Over the last 2 years my Jupiter was a work in progress as Roland added features based on user feedback. During this time I just tried not to overthink issues and concentrate on the great sounds and what I could make happen with those sounds.

[brenner13]

Two button presses with one hand and you've just transposed a half-step...less than a second.

Again, master tune will allow up to a half-step up or down, too.

[HammondDave]

Two button presses with one hand and you've just transposed a half-step...less than a second.

Again, master tune will allow up to a half-step up or down, too.

 

Not to dare to suggest to Roland how to fix it... But it seems pretty obvious to just offer a wider range for Master Tune...

[Keybass]

I had the opportunity to play the VR-09 today at Sam Ash Hollywood. I only spent about ten minutes with it but came away liking it a lot. The AP's were not usable, the EP's were mediocre to good, the organ was very good and the synth was also very good.

 

I know this has been a very controversial piece of gear but I honestly believe its a great value. If the sk1 and the vr-09 were the same price I would take the Roland.

 

The action was perfectly adequate for most applications and the build quality was segment leading considering the price.

 

I dig it though YMMV.

[HammondDave]

From the Roland VR-09 user blog... Those "synth ninjas are working day and night for you"....

 

 

"Mr V Unhappy

JUN 04, 2013 @ 12:06:23

OV Valle (Roland Us) You are full of ****

 

First of all you you keep us waiting but promising something, some announcement regarding the VR -09 then the Axial library isn;t even ready for the VR -09, so what was the point of making a big deal about the announcement! And when is Roland going to fix all the terrible bugs that this keyboard so obviuosly has!!

 

REPLY

OV Valle [Roland US]

JUN 05, 2013 @ 17:21:46

Thank you Mr V Unhappy, I am full of grace.

 

There will be further expansion to the Axial website. Apologies if my comment left you in suspense, I believe you are referring to Mr Browns question on May 14 about there being other sounds on the VR-09 to which I replied Stay tuned for news regarding sound expansions. In further comments I did say, You will know tomorrow but only because I did not have the full information at hand. This is how rumors get started, learned my lesson. Please try to be patient, we have synth ninjas working day and night for you. As soon as we have new information we will report here and on our social sites."

 

 

[Keybass]

Hammonddave,

 

How many times have you played the VR-09?

[Kurt W]

You may be a rocket scientist without beeing an astronaut...... :-)

[HammondDave]

Hammonddave,

 

How many times have you played the VR-09?

 

I played it twice... Once at NAMM and once at Guitar Center... That was enough to discover what that product is.

 

But again, my main criticism is not from the crappy feel of the cheap keyboard, or its questionable design decisions and limitations, its the obvious lack of customer support from the company. I can't help but shake my head when I read complaints from owners of a product that they obviously are not completely happy with, and then they decide to sit back quietly and expect (hope) Roland to fix these issues with an OS update. History has proven that this will probably not happen.

 

The only way to convince Roland to act is to be proactive and return their product. As long as they have your money in their pockets, expect to be ignored. If it were me, I would have returned it a long time ago, then sit back and wait. If those "synth ninjas working day and night for you" really come up with improvements, then nothing is stopping you from buying the board back. In the meanwhile, you are stuck with a flawed product past your 30 day return date "hoping" Roland will fix it.

 

But again... I hope I am wrong... but the more I see How Roland acts (like their ridiculous comments on their blog, or their zero presence on musicians's forums), the less hope I have. As one wise forum mate said, if you like it WITH all its limitations, then keep it. Because you will probably end up with just what you bought.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Hammonddave, have you now taken to searching the web for bad things to say about the VR-09? Don't you feel embarassed that you've stooped this low? Seriously, haven't you got better things to do? Your fixation with this product is way past the point of healthy.. Take a break because you've gotten to the point where it wouldn't surprise me if these are your comments on the Roland Blog Mr V Unhappy!!! Seriously, why don't you just let it go, you have made your feelings known.

[Craig MacDonald]

I had the opportunity to play the VR-09 today at Sam Ash Hollywood. I only spent about ten minutes with it but came away liking it a lot. The AP's were not usable, the EP's were mediocre to good, the organ was very good and the synth was also very good.

 

I know this has been a very controversial piece of gear but I honestly believe its a great value. If the sk1 and the vr-09 were the same price I would take the Roland.

 

The action was perfectly adequate for most applications and the build quality was segment leading considering the price.

 

I dig it though YMMV.

 

Keybass, thanks for your quick review.. personally, I like the product a lot, and the more I play it the more I like it. I think that your perspective on the product is more in line with the general consensus. From my perspective there are a lot more people that think the VR-09 sounds great and provides excellent value at this price point.

 

I agree with you whole heartedly, if I had to choose between the SK1 and the VR-09 at the same price, I would take the VR-09 even with it's quirks/bugs and design limitations. It would better serve my needs.

[HammondDave]

Craig... You came out of your protective bubble to join us! We all so happy with your re-appearance.... Stay as long as you like... Free thinkers are here...

 

Oh, and about your insinuations... You really need to check your paranoia at the door. I read a lot of threads. I also read a lot of newspapers and magazines. I consider myself educated and well informed, not self restrained in a bubble of fantasy praying for the Roland fairy (oh sorry... "synth ninja") to come and fix my VR-09 someday....

 

Your suggestion that I posed as a dissatisfied Roland owner is absurd. Believe me, there are many of them around....

 

But go on... Believe what you may. Take your ball to another thread.... No one here gives a damn... because we believe in informed free speech.

 

 

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

From the Roland VR-09 user blog... Those "synth ninjas are working day and night for you"....

 

 

"Mr V Unhappy

JUN 04, 2013 @ 12:06:23

OV Valle (Roland Us) You are full of ****

 

First of all you you keep us waiting but promising something, some announcement regarding the VR -09 then the Axial library isn;t even ready for the VR -09, so what was the point of making a big deal about the announcement! And when is Roland going to fix all the terrible bugs that this keyboard so obviuosly has!!

 

REPLY

OV Valle [Roland US]

JUN 05, 2013 @ 17:21:46

Thank you Mr V Unhappy, I am full of grace.

 

There will be further expansion to the Axial website. Apologies if my comment left you in suspense, I believe you are referring to Mr Browns question on May 14 about there being other sounds on the VR-09 to which I replied Stay tuned for news regarding sound expansions. In further comments I did say, You will know tomorrow but only because I did not have the full information at hand. This is how rumors get started, learned my lesson. Please try to be patient, we have synth ninjas working day and night for you. As soon as we have new information we will report here and on our social sites."

 

 

For the record, I think that this is a ridiculous comment made on the VR-09 blog and I give Roland credit for their integrity in taking it seriously, leaving it on there and responding to it. OV, the Roland rep, apologized for getting "out of the gate" a bit early with the announcement, but he has assured VR-09 users that additional sounds will be coming and I'm quite confident that this will be the case. The VA synth that is in the VR-09, is almost exactly the same as the VA synth that's in the top of the line Jupiter synths (less a few extra layers) so I see no reason that the these sounds won't be made available for the VR-09 soon. I think that the limiting factor is that, at this time, the VR-09 cannot load individual sounds (registrations) it can only load complete registration sets. Therefor either the VR-09 OR the iPad editor will have to be updated to allow for loading/saving individual sounds. IF that's the case it means that some kind of an update will be coming from Roland to allow this. That said, it is wise to be cautious and purchase the VR-09 based on what it does do now, rather than what it might do.

 

However, I do believe that Roland is working very hard on the VR-09, and I am optimistic that we'll see additional feature/functionality and fixes from Roland in the not too distant future.

[Craig MacDonald]

You came out of your protective bubble to join us!

 

because we believe in informed free speech.

 

Speaking of protective umbrellas... there's that "free speech" protective umbrella that you and a few others hide under in this thread. On any other forum your obvious bias and these repetative negative comments (that border on Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) would quickly be moderated... How many times does one really have to make the same point?

 

As has been said in this thread a couple of times.. you've made your point, now you're just becoming obnoxious, and you're losing just a little more credibility every time you say the same thing again. Think about that Dave.

[voxpops]

Well, I have to say, you guys are more entertaining than the VR-09 will ever be!

[HammondDave]

You came out of your protective bubble to join us!

 

because we believe in informed free speech.

 

Speaking of protective umbrellas... there's that "free speech" protective umbrella that you and a few others hide under in this thread. On any other forum your obvious bias and these repetative negative comments (that border on Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) would quickly be moderated... How many times does one really have to make the same point?

 

As has been said in this thread a couple of times.. you've made your point, now you're just becoming obnoxious, and you're losing just a little more credibility every time you say the same thing again. Think about that Dave.

 

I am taking this to PM... I will not waste the time of our colleagues having to deal further with you.

 

[brenner13]

Even though my opinion differs from HammondDave's about this board, I have fun with the debate. Dave's point of view has some valid points, and it is obvious he enjoys repeatedly pointing out flaws and limitations, especially when it effectively presses emotional buttons. His comments certainly encourage and even require responses.

 

It should not be taken as personal insult when someone expresses dislike for a product that another finds useful and fun. I can make wonderful music with this board and it has greatly improved the sound of my live rig. However, I also understand that a lot of folks don't have a need for something in this niche and the shortfalls become easy targets.

 

Again, Dave brings to light many issues that anyone interested in this board needs to know. Positive rebuttals need to be there to keep the information balanced. Who knows, maybe all this ranting and ragging on the VR09 will encourage Roland to prove the dissenters wrong. Actually, I wonder if Dave secretly WANTS Roland to step up and do something great for their customers.

 

OS update or no, I'm keeping this board and will continue to make great music with it. IMO it is already a great value.

[HammondDave]

Even though my opinion differs from HammondDave's about this board, I have fun with the debate. Dave's point of view has some valid points, and it is obvious he enjoys repeatedly pointing out flaws and limitations, especially when it effectively presses emotional buttons. His comments certainly encourage and even require responses.

 

It should not be taken as personal insult when someone expresses dislike for a product that another finds useful and fun. I can make wonderful music with this board and it has greatly improved the sound of my live rig. However, I also understand that a lot of folks don't have a need for something in this niche and the shortfalls become easy targets.

 

Again, Dave brings to light many issues that anyone interested in this board needs to know. Positive rebuttals need to be there to keep the information balanced. Who knows, maybe all this ranting and ragging on the VR09 will encourage Roland to prove the dissenters wrong. Actually, I wonder if Dave secretly WANTS Roland to step up and do something great for their customers.

 

OS update or no, I'm keeping this board and will continue to make great music with it. IMO it is already a great value.

 

THANK YOU! That is no secret! That's exactly what I want to see... Roland stepping up! I have said it several times before.

 

I am a believer in PROACTIVE efforts to see this happen... And the only thing we as customers can do is loudly complain and return their products. Being passive participants will not accomplish anything. Others suggest passivity. Looking at history (especially Roland's customer service record) indicates otherwise.

 

The problem occurs when some members find "negative" comments as a personal insult. No, it is just a difference of opinion... I love my B3's. But when someone says "they are just too heavy and bulky to gig with", I do not take that as a personal insult. Some people fall in love with their instruments... Fine... Just don't expect me to love them as well...

 

So I have asked Craig to take his comments to me offline. I respect Craig as a musician and a friend. Sorry that you will not be amused with our banter any longer.

[voxpops]

OS update or no, I'm keeping this board and will continue to make great music with it. IMO it is already a great value.

That's the whole point, isn't it? Everyone's situation is different, and this is a niche instrument. It works for me, too, in specific contexts. So why should I return it? I knew what I was buying. It will be even better if Roland steps up to the plate with the requested fixes, but it's a valid instrument as it stands - at least from my perspective.

 

I also think that Dave has contributed a useful counterbalance from the negative end of the spectrum, even if his "button pushing" has been a little extreme, not to mention like a stuck needle (for those who remember vinyl/wax) . At the other end of the scale, Craig's commitment to the VR has helped a lot of new owners find their feet with the board. All I would say to Craig is, don't rise to the bait as there's absolutely no need to defend your position - we hear ya!

 

The voice that's absent from all this is Roland's! I've just been discussing the PX-5S over on the Piano World forum, and Mike pops up to offer a customized patch to help with a specific concern. How cool is that? A representative from the manufacturer (who's inundated with work by the sound of it) actually takes the time to offer something specific for a customer's needs: that's Rolls Royce service at Yugo prices! And I've had similar service from Kawai James. I know that the Roland VR blog is active, but I haven't yet read anything that doesn't appear to be a "holding operation." Maybe things will change soon...

[Ken Beaumont]

Agreed, Roland needs someone that is proactive to be the face of Roland. Others that deserve recognition off the top of my head:

 

Dave Weiser -- Kurzweil

Phil Clendeninn aka "Bad_Mister" -- Yamaha

 

[Lorenzo]

I'm a keyboardist and singer from Italy. I've been reading this topic and wish to thank you all for the useful infos, pros and cons, you have provided about the vr 09. I never tried one personally, I worked for many years with a vk7, then bought a vr 700, which is a good board with some annoying limitation (to say a couple, only global eq and global damper, so in case of splits, sustain pedal will affect both piano and organ and you might not want that). Some of the limitations that Craig Mac Donald pointed out need to be solved in order for this board to be really attractive to people who,like me, use splits and layers and for whom effect assignation bugs and note on when changing sound could make a good instrument unusable.

[Adan]

I've been passing over this thread for awhile, assuming it's been just the same old crap keeping it on page 1. Lo and behold, I was right. There's useful information here, but unfortunately it's buried in a mind-numbing, relentlessly repetitive debate.

 

Copying negative comments from the Roland forum onto this forum? I can't imagine having as much free time as Hammonddave must have. If I did, I think I'd volunteer at the SPCA, or something useful like that.

[Ekewaka]

Some companies have strict policies about forum attendance -- don't know Roland's internal policies myself.

 

I think it's best to keep any personal insults from postings, they are not relevant to the product. It's just a plastic thingie with electrons spinning around, it should handle critique.

[HammondDave]

"I can't imagine having as much free time as Hammonddave must have. If I did, I think I'd volunteer at the SPCA, or something useful like that."

 

 

Actually, I don't know where I get all this spare time. I am pretty efficient with my work. I light shows all over the world, am a full time university professor, play music.. Maybe it's because I don't have kids. That must be it.

[Craig MacDonald]

"I can't imagine having as much free time as Hammonddave must have. If I did, I think I'd volunteer at the SPCA, or something useful like that."

 

 

Actually, I don't know where I get all this spare time. I am pretty efficient with my work. I light shows all over the world, am a full time university professor, play music.. Maybe it's because I don't have kids. That must be it.

Dave, You are a smart guy, but even a smart guy like you can miss the point sometimes, and the point is that cutting and pasting something like this, to prove your point, is way beneath you. Enough said.

[Keybass]

Hammonddave, thanks for answering my question. I can understand your position regarding the shortcomings of the OS. As a musician the weight of my judgement is more rooted in its musical qualities. I played several great lead synths which begs the question, should any manufacturer charge $1k for an instrument that only provides lead synth and synth bass?

 

Then there is the rompler sounds that will help me cover a gig very easily, lets throw those in at no charge. Then how about a very good to almost excellent clonewheel and now the value speaks for itself. As I said earlier the Ap's are not my bag and I wouldn't use them, but there are a few ep's that I would use without reservation.

 

I don't expect this thing to be a KronosX ( though I don't like their AP's either) but for 1k it sends a message to the industry that the bar has been raised for the 1k professional keyboard.

 

I am sure that Roland will get on the obvious issues raised in this thread and address them in upcoming OS updates. I think it is reasonable to give them a bit more time before negative or hyper-critical comments are made about consumer neglect. I can't compare them to Casio in this regard because there aren't a whole lot of Mike Martins in the world, he is truly excellent.

 

So all in all the VR-09 is a winner in my book.

 

 

[DulceLabs.com]

This one goes out to Craig and Dave:

 

[video:youtube]

[HammondDave]

Hammonddave, thanks for answering my question. I can understand your position regarding the shortcomings of the OS. As a musician the weight of my judgement is more rooted in its musical qualities. I played several great lead synths which begs the question, should any manufacturer charge $1k for an instrument that only provides lead synth and synth bass?

 

Then there is the rompler sounds that will help me cover a gig very easily, lets throw those in at no charge. Then how about a very good to almost excellent clonewheel and now the value speaks for itself. As I said earlier the Ap's are not my bag and I wouldn't use them, but there are a few ep's that I would use without reservation.

 

I don't expect this thing to be a KronosX ( though I don't like their AP's either) but for 1k it sends a message to the industry that the bar has been raised for the 1k professional keyboard.

 

I am sure that Roland will get on the obvious issues raised in this thread and address them in upcoming OS updates. I think it is reasonable to give them a bit more time before negative or hyper-critical comments are made about consumer neglect. I can't compare them to Casio in this regard because there aren't a whole lot of Mike Martins in the world, he is truly excellent.

 

So all in all the VR-09 is a winner in my book.

 

 

Thanks Alex... You make some good points. Sure, judging from what's out there right now, $999 is "inexpensive" and can be considered a good value by many. I do respect anyone who makes this judgement. Value is judged by the individual.

 

What is worrying me is what we are talking about on another thread about the future of keyboards. If customers start accepting what some of us feel are serious compromises in a keyboard (keys, interface, overdrive, OS issues, etc), then it just may be a matter of time when manufacturers only care about making cheap keyboards.

 

I only hope that we all have more choices, not fewer... and if the VR-09 gives us another choice.. then great! My fight is with corporations not taking care of its customers.... and that's a fight I will not shy away from.

[HammondDave]

This one goes out to Craig and Dave:

 

[video:youtube]

 

WOW! Nothing like a little Stevie on Clavinet to put it all in perspective... Thanks for that!

[Messiaen]

I agree with both Craig AND Hammondave at the same time, if thats possible!

 

I think the Vr-09 is a very good attempt to put a lot of sounds into a cheapish keyboard, the organs are good etc, synths great, BUT I also think there's been a few too many corners cut. Having to buy a Ipad to edit the synth means spending another £300-400 so then its not so cheap! Only has 200 sounds and does NOT have top quality piano, but could have had, not really enough SUPERNATURAL sounds. If they had packed more quality sounds in and had editable synth with a decent size Screen, sure charge a bit more this would have been KILLER keyboard.

 

Plus some of the bugs need to be fixed and there seems a lot of vagueness on the Roland Blog about that, and promises of more sounds, Axial library, but it turns out these are not available, so I can see where Hammondave is coming from. Roland do need to address this stuff, they need to put the EFFORT in!

 

I am enjoyed the debates on here, we all have different ways of seeing the world and expressing how we feel about stuff, its called LIFE!

[brenner13]

Ed Diaz sells it: