Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Ken Beaumont]

Most likely guitar players would shun those as the plague.

 

Not really, my modeler pedal Line 6 HD400 has a 1/8" input but no 1/4" other than guitar input. On the plus it has 1/4" & XLR outs. The main guitarist in my band has an 1/8" input on one of his pedals in addition to the 1/4". They are purely for external mp3 player inputs. If you don't have to run a long length or move a lot like a guitar cord, the 1/8" last as long as any cable as long as you don't pull hard on the connectors.

In fact I would venture to say that I have seen more 1/4" connectors fail at the device because of not pulling them out and inserting them straight than ipod headphone connectors. I have had 3 iphones, 2 ipads and never once has the connector failed. The ear buds are a different story. On my guitar I usually have to tighten the connector and bend the internal conductors closer together so the connector seats firmly every couple of years. The 1/4" male is much longer than the 1/8" so if manhandled its much easier to ruin a connector that is soldered directly to the board. Do to robotic manufacturing I would expect to see much more of that type in the future. Because that's where the cost cutting is really being done. Automated manufacturing of electronics is much cheaper and more reliable than unskilled or semi-skilled laborers. That is why all electronics are pretty much throw away. I used to repair televisions and stereos as a side job. That pretty much ended by 1985.

[Ekewaka]

Yes MP3 inputs are special case. I'm always worried about 1/8 connectors as they are thin and if someone steps or yanks them, large parts of the unit could follow along. Few L-connectors for 1/8s as well.

 

Now, the 1/4 low-end Monster cables are excellent, I use them for keyboard work as well even if I have to retire them each year.

 

I don't like the trend of hardware synths using 1/8 inputs and outputs.

[Ken Beaumont]

I don't like the trend of hardware synths using 1/8 inputs and outputs.

 

Then you will really hate the Korg MS-20 (mini)

 

As I added to my previous post,its really about robotic manufacturing and directly soldered connectors.

[Josh Paxton]

I'm quite sure that it has more to do with people using iPods, and other portable devices to store/play their music on.

 

Yes, Nord keyboards have a 1/8" stereo input, and they specifically say it's for practicing and playing along with recorded music. For that reason, the signal from that input only goes through the headphone output, NOT the main outputs. I wish it were possible to switch it to go through the main outputs as well. Since it isn't, I will confess there have been times when I committed the sin of using the headphone output as the main output to get that feature.

[Ekewaka]

I don't like the trend of hardware synths using 1/8 inputs and outputs.

 

Then you will really hate the Korg MS-20 (mini)

 

As I added to my previous post,its really about robotic manufacturing and directly soldered connectors.

 

GearSlutz people are indeed complaining but one can't say much until the new MS-20s are actually out in the market. The 1/8s are mostly for patching purposes, anyway.

[brenner13]

I have plenty of old synths with jacked up, shorted out 1/4" outputs. I can't think of any piece of gear that had an1/8" input/output go bad, and that goes back to the 80's with my first Sony Walkman cassette player. Of course cheap earbuds short out fairly easy, but that's usually at the speaker or driver connection not at the plug.

 

Hammonds require heavy maintaince and a minimum of two strong people to move 'em, and are only slightly less fragile than a 300 year old harpsichord. Well maybe my old M111 was abused then neglected before happening into my life.

[voxpops]

I can't think of any piece of gear that had an1/8" input/output go bad...

It's not so much the input jack, but the cable/plug. There is often less solder due to the smaller connecters, and the plugs can't usually take as much wear and tear.

[garnermike]

Seems to me an 88key stage piano should have 1/4 inputs there certainly is enough space! That does sound like cost cutting or a serious oversight, if a stage piano was their intent. I also prefer XLR in addition to 1/4" on a stage piano. But on a piano that looks like its primary use is for apartment dwellers with small living space, I can see why maybe why they left it off.

 

I just don't think its all that important on a second board or synth. My XW-P1 has 1/4" in addition to 1/8" but it doesn't have an expression pedal input! I have never used the them, but I sure would have used an expression pedal!

 

Yes, have owned many Casio KBs over the last 12 years, WKs, CTKs, etc. I love the way the company is improving and competing in the KB market. But until they produce a unit that can have a simple input for a volume/expression pedal, and can produce a decent organ/rotary sim sound, it can't be in the clone discussion---IMHO.

[High Diving Act]

Hey ya'll. Just picked up my new vr09 tonight.... and.... the US Roland rep says Roland will be announcing news about sound expansions tomorrow. Not sure if OS update is included in the announcement but wait and see I guess!

[Craig MacDonald]

Yes the Roland VR-09 blog has a lot of references to expansion coming tomorrow.. Looking forward to finding out what it is!

[HammondDave]

 

Yes, have owned many Casio KBs over the last 12 years, WKs, CTKs, etc. I love the way the company is improving and competing in the KB market. But until they produce a unit that can have a simple input for a volume/expression pedal, and can produce a decent organ/rotary sim sound, it can't be in the clone discussion---IMHO.

 

It is not a Hammond clone, it is a digital piano/controller. Good thing because it only has 6 faders and the organ sounds are pretty lame... But it is what it is... And it is a great sounding acoustic piano/EP with a very good keyboard.

[Messiaen]

Yes the Roland VR-09 blog has a lot of references to expansion coming tomorrow.. Looking forward to finding out what it is!

 

I should be picking up my VR 09 today, one of the forst in the UK I reckon, theres not many around and this was before I heard of the announcements about sound expansions, very exciting, I did wonder about it only having 200 onboard sounds, though quality is pretty high. I hope they decide to throw in the Roland 'classic' synths , I think that would be the iceing on the cake!!

 

Thanks Craig for all your input on here, showing the good, the bad and the ugly. Despite its quirks it still looks like a good buy. My first proper keyboard, its going to be emotional!!

[Craig MacDonald]

Yes the Roland VR-09 blog has a lot of references to expansion coming tomorrow.. Looking forward to finding out what it is!

 

I should be picking up my VR 09 today, one of the forst in the UK I reckon, theres not many around and this was before I heard of the announcements about sound expansions, very exciting, I did wonder about it only having 200 onboard sounds, though quality is pretty high. I hope they decide to throw in the Roland 'classic' synths , I think that would be the iceing on the cake!!

 

Thanks Craig for all your input on here, showing the good, the bad and the ugly. Despite its quirks it still looks like a good buy. My first proper keyboard, its going to be emotional!!

 

You're welcome.. I suspect it's the classic synths, or a subset of them.. the VR-09 has basically the same Jupiter style VA synth as the Jupiter - 80/50, same PCM wave set, but it doesn't have as many layers. The VR-09 is only capable of 2 layers whereas the real Jupiter 80/50 can have either 4 or 6 layers (can't recall exactly).. so I would expect that if the added sounds are from the classic synth collection, it may not be all of them..? There are already two links on the VR-09 information page that references the classic synths (although not links to any VR-09 update) so it would make sense if it's the classic synths.. AND FOR THE RECORD.. if it was.. it would put this VR-09 way over the top in my opinion. Even if we had to pay for them.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

HammondDave, just a quick follow up on the VR-09 review.. I've had a chance to read the entire thing and it's definately a very positive review and it does NOT touch on the expression pedal limitation or effects issue.. but it does actually mention the keyboard.. In the pro's cons section it suggests that the keyboard is "stiff" at the top of the key travel. I think that I've mentioned the same thing in earlier comments on this blog, that I don't mind the keyboard and if I had a criticism of it, it would be that it feels a tad stiff. So yes it is a very positive review (but if I was reviewing it, it would be a very positive review too, because I really like it), and it doesn't mention the 2-3 things that are annoying some of us here. It describes the acoustic piano sounds as "gorgeous" and the EP's as like "vintage EP" as "dead on", which I think is a bit of an exaggeration, but at the same time it suggests that the organ is "very good, but it doesn't upstage the Hammond XK-3c or Nord Electro 4D", which I think is quite accurate.

 

Here are the "snap judgement" pros and cons

 

PROS

Modeled tonewheel organ with full drawbar control and convincing rotary simulation. Full complement of PCM-based sounds from pianos to synth to acoustic orchestral instruments. Can split or layer organ section with other sections. Lot's of effects knobs. Drawbars double as synth editing sliders. Deep editing via free iPadd app. Weighs 12 pounds.

 

CONS

Unweighted action is stiff at the top of the key travel. No aftertouch. Data wheel requires a sensitive touch not to overshoot your goal. Keyboard limited to two-way split or layer-though you can get more with an external controller

 

 

One other comment from me.. until the author of the review mentioned that data wheel issue, I hadn't thought it to be a problem (when I've used it I have definately overshot the target a few times), but in hindsight I would agree that the dial is a little sensitive. SO maybe the author noticed things that we didn't and vice versa.

[HammondDave]

Thanks Craig....

 

The lighting equipment that I review is usually much more technologically advanced (and expensive) than keyboard equipment. When I review products that are still in beta, or are very early production models, I will contact the manufacturer when I (or my students) discover software bugs. They always send me updated software correcting these within 24 hours... And I usually do not mention that in reviews (unless it is a major issue that is not corrected). Maybe that's what KB magazine did with this review, assuming that the few bugs will be fixed by an OS upgrade...

[Kevmo]

Craig

 

What blog are you refering to?

 

PS my VR arrives tommorow.!!!

[rien]

the VR-09 starts shipping in europe: i received mine this morning.

 

i have to wait until the end of the day to unpack and plug it. (i can't wait ! do you think my boss will mind if i replace my computer keyboard with a real keyboard ?). i will keep you informed.

[HAMEGZ]

A Google search for VR09 sound expansion so far turns up zilch..

[Ken Beaumont]

The blog Craig is referencing I believe is: http://www.rolandus.com/blog/2013/05/13/v-combo-vr-09-made-for-live-playing

[HAMEGZ]

I did see that , with the tickler " you will know tomorrow", well its tomorrow

 

[Plassgard]

My music store made a mistake and sent me an sms that my VR-09 had arrived a month ago so I went there. It turned out that they just got 1 demo ex and they didn´t had permission to sell it. I was stuborn and said that I got this sms telling me that my product had arrived so they called Roland and I could buy it I guess I´ve been pretty lonely with a VR-09 in Europe this month. And I still find it very inspiring with sounds that cut good through the mix in my band and is a pleasure to just turn on after work and play with. I has it´s bugs as so many have reported and I do hope Roland will adress these but all in all it´s a bargain. Last time I played with the band I skipped my Ventilator and it worked fine. I missed the sweet overdrive from the vent but with just a hint of overdrive and the tone control turned left it still had a nice bite.

[voxpops]

The blog Craig is referencing I believe is: http://www.rolandus.com/blog/2013/05/13/v-combo-vr-09-made-for-live-playing

My comment seems to have been moderated into oblivion - unless it takes time for it to appear. I hope the First Amendment is still functioning at Roland US.

[Craig MacDonald]

It must take time for comments to appear because I see everything, including the reference to something being announced today... But it's still today so hopefully we will see something soon!

[HAMEGZ]

The blog Craig is referencing I believe is: http://www.rolandus.com/blog/2013/05/13/v-combo-vr-09-made-for-live-playing

My comment seems to have been moderated into oblivion - unless it takes time for it to appear. I hope the First Amendment is still functioning at Roland US.

 

interesting I posted asking simply when today the update would be posted, it appeared for a brief time and now its gone

[Craig MacDonald]

Don't worry I think the same thing happened to me.. I think there is a moderator who has to approve your first post to make sure it's not spam...

[HAMEGZ]

Don't worry I think the same thing happened to me.. I think there is a moderator who has to approve your first post to make sure it's not spam...

 

Thanks Craig, I saw your posts there. I am buzzed about the sound expansions( and hopefully the OS upgrade).

 

I am in a quandary now trying to decide between the VR09 with a years financing(sweetwater) or an SK1 for 1699 new(amazon) with 12 months..

[Craig MacDonald]

Don't worry I think the same thing happened to me.. I think there is a moderator who has to approve your first post to make sure it's not spam...

 

Thanks Craig, I saw your posts there. I am buzzed about the sound expansions( and hopefully the OS upgrade).

 

I am in a quandary now trying to decide between the VR09 with a years financing(sweetwater) or an SK1 for 1699 new(amazon) with 12 months..

 

My advice would be as follows.. I think that the SK1 is a bit better organ, especially with it's waterfall keyboard and it's tweakability. However, in almost every other respect the VR-09 is superior, and FAR superior in some areas. You could argue individual sounds.. so perhaps the clavinet is better on the SK but the Vintage EP is better on the VR, however the VR has a more comprehensive sound set (the SK1 doesn't even have nice warm strings), AND the VR has this fantastic VR synth.. the VR-09 has a joystick... the SK1 doesn't.. The VR-09 has a lot of advantages over the SK1.. PERHAPS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE that the VR-09 has is the ability to layer two NON-ORGAN Sounds!! The Sk1 cannot do this.. So even if the SK1 had nice strings, you couldn't layer them with an Electric Piano. One part a a layer MUST be organ on the SK1, that is not the case with the VR-09.. now that said, the VR-09 has a few quirks when it comes to layering.. and some annoying things like the expression pedal thing.. but there are workarounds for that.

 

SO IF you really value the waterfall keys and the tweakability of the SK1, and you don't mind the split/layering limitations and the fact that it's lacking certain sampled sounds, then perhaps the SK1 is what you want.. On the other hand if you're not an organ player and you don't particularly care about waterfall keys but you want great sounding organ, and you value a comprehensive sample library, cool live effects and a a fully editable virtual analog synth, then there is no question that the VR-09 would be a better choice..

 

One other point.. the SK1 is on release 7 and it's been out for close to two years.. so whatever feature/function you have now is probably it. On the other hand, the VR-09 has just been released, and we see/hear that expansion libraries are coming available (hopefully this is true!!!) and who knows what additional functionality may come to this little instrument. I've said a couple times that I think this VR-09 is capable of a lot more and it feels like it's got a "governor" on it.. and with a couple of quick tweaks to the OS some of these limitations could easily be removed.

 

SK1 if you really value the waterfall keys and tweakability.. the VR-09 if you want a better all around do it all keyboard and you want to save $700.. ($850 if you can find some place that's still doing the 15% off) seriously that discounted price for the SK1 is still double what the discounted price is for the VR-09 and the VR-09 really does so much more.. (sorry now my biases are coming out).

 

Seriously, I like the VR-09 but it's not for everyone.. the SK1 is a great sounding organ as well.. and a lot of people love it.

[Plassgard]

Found this page just now and maybe they´re planning to release something for the VR-09 here?:

 

http://axial.roland.com/

[Ekewaka]

Go to a GC store or something that has plenty of equipment and test out SK-1 versus VR-09. The local GC store actually had the VR-09 below the SK-1.

 

I don't want to repeat my findings comparing those two.

[HammondDave]

Go to a GC store or something that has plenty of equipment and test out SK-1 versus VR-09. The local GC store actually had the VR-09 below the SK-1.

 

I don't want to repeat my findings comparing those two.

 

Wise decision....