Roland V-Combo VR-09

[voxpops]

Voxpops, I don't think that split mode means you're accessing General Midi sounds (unless all of the sampled sounds on the VR-09 are GM sounds, and I don't think they are).. From what I can gather all of the other non-organ sounds can be used from the lower manual and they are the exact same sounds, but the effects are absent.. So for instance if you create a split where the lower manual sound is a phased electric piano, you will get the phased electric piano but without the phaser effect.

 

Yes, apologies, it was a case of operator error. In "keyboard" MIDI mode you can split organ with anything else, the same as when splitting piano and synth. Thanks for pointing it out!

[WOK]

 

- FX: manual says, that effects can only be set for the upper part, except when organ is set for lower part, then the effects are for all parts. This does not make sence to me, as the pic in the manual shows compressor, overdrive etc. If I select compressor and overdrive for an organ in the lower part, a piano in the upper part (split) will also be overdriven??!? When splitting two organ sounds, overdrive and rotary will only work for the upper part ??!?

 

THIS IS A BIT WEIRD ON THE VR-09, NONE OF THE TONES YOU PUT ON THE BOTTOM PART ALLOW FOR ANY EFFECTS (SO IF THE TONES HAVE THE EFFECTS ON THEM THEY LOSE THEM). HOWEVER ORGAN IS THE EXCEPTION, IF YOU PUT ORGAN ON THE BOTTOM YOU CAN STILL ADD OVERDRIVE, THE LESLIE SIM AND ALL OF THE MFX.. HOWEVER, IF YOU DO, THEY WILL ALSO APPEAR ON THE UPPER SOUNDS.. SO IF YOU PUT ACOUSTIC PIANO ON TOP, AND ORGAN ON THE BOTTOM, TURNING ON THE LESLIE WILL PUT LESLIE ON BOTH UPPER AND LOWER PARTS.

Thanks. So I am off with VR-09. Having max. two sounds at once only is already a problem for some live setups I need. But a Leslie'd acoustic piano ?!? So I can use Piano only in the lower when splitting organ/piano, and in case of e-piano there's no chorus/phaser then. What a nonsense.

 

Roland is really doing strange keyboards in the past. The VR-760 was not able to split the organ sound to simulate two manuals. The VR-700 had a 1970s LED display only, (VK-8 no display at all), the Juno Stage had a less than average keybed and organ sound..... (and the D, Di, G, Gi ~~ - just experiments to flood the market?)

[HammondDave]

OT but If you have an iPad, Alchemy just updated a few weeks ago with a new sound bank called Himalaya Vintage that has dead accurate Mellotron flute and choir. Works great with my VR09 as a controller, as it would with any other.

Interesting that you say that Brenner13, I have the Griffin studio connect interface sitting beside me and I've collected a number of iPad music Apps and my next focus is going to see if I can work this into my gig rig.. ideally, whatever shortcomings the VR-09 has can be addressed with a second mini-keyboard and an ipad running synth apps.

 

You should! I use Alchemy and Animoog all the time...

 

All we need is for Guido to make an iPad version of VB3 and then you can throw that VR-09 in the dumpster! (Again... kidding)

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Roland has begun to respond to comments and issues that we've reported on the blog. Nothing earth shattering, they've acknowledged that the issues that have been reported and answered a few questions. The only thing of interest is this comment that the Roland rep posted at the end of one response..

 

"Stay tuned for news regarding sound expansions."

 

This struck me as very interesting because this might mean some updates to the OS to allow for the iPad editor to store sounds or some other update to allow individual sounds or registrations to be loaded into the VR-09.

 

If doing this means an OS update perhaps some issues will get fixed. Maybe I'm dreaming...

[Ekewaka]

OT but If you have an iPad, Alchemy just updated a few weeks ago with a new sound bank called Himalaya Vintage that has dead accurate Mellotron flute and choir. Works great with my VR09 as a controller, as it would with any other.

Interesting that you say that Brenner13, I have the Griffin studio connect interface sitting beside me and I've collected a number of iPad music Apps and my next focus is going to see if I can work this into my gig rig.. ideally, whatever shortcomings the VR-09 has can be addressed with a second mini-keyboard and an ipad running synth apps.

 

You should! I use Alchemy and Animoog all the time...

 

All we need is for Guido to make an iPad version of VB3 and then you can throw that VR-09 in the dumpster! (Again... kidding)

 

 

Alchemy is really nice and the company behind it even nicer, responds to all kinds of requests from the users. Been a Camel user since before 1.0 days and Chameleon.

 

Now if you load Alchemy to a laptop and a good MIDI controller, you have a huge palette to for live purposes.

[HAMEGZ]

Roland has begun to respond to comments and issues that we've reported on the blog. Nothing earth shattering, they've acknowledged that the issues that have been reported and answered a few questions. The only thing of interest is this comment that the Roland rep posted at the end of one response..

 

"Stay tuned for news regarding sound expansions."

 

This struck me as very interesting because this might mean some updates to the OS to allow for the iPad editor to store sounds or some other update to allow individual sounds or registrations to be loaded into the VR-09.

 

If doing this means an OS update perhaps some issues will get fixed. Maybe I'm dreaming...

 

I know that bit of news is cryptic and its too early to speculate as far as "sound expansions". My first thoughts went to the JV and SRX series of cards, which of course the VR09 is not equipped for.

 

The Krome had created a stir when a user found 32 mb of sampling playback capability in the board.Speculation was the function was there waiting to be "unlocked" by a firmware update.

Maybe there are some waves present on the ROM not being used yet? I remember my SV1 had a bass guitar/piano split unlocked by a sound pak.

[brenner13]

Lets hope for non-looping piano samples...weird, of all the complaints and short comings, the piano tones are my biggest gripe, because most other things are either passable for me or I've found a work-around. Data exchange to USB by registration is second on my list.

Go Roland! I like it okay, but make me love it.

[Josh Paxton]

(Because clearly the Sk1, Mojo, Nord and VR09 just aren't enough clonewheels to own...)

 

I've heard of Crohn's Disease, but this must be Clone's Disease.

 

Heh! Nice one! And embarrassingly on the mark.

 

In your defense, I know at least one of those came your way gratis.

 

I'm not sure where you got your information, but I wish that were true!

[Josh Paxton]

I've been asked by a couple folks to post the VR-09 through the Neo Instruments Ventilator.

 

Thanks for posting that. I haven't run the VR through the Vent yet, but hearing that makes me want to go start plugging in cables.

 

I considered making the Vent part of my rig with the VR, but decided against it because it would complicate my monitoring situation. I could do it, but it would require more hardware, which is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

 

Then again, remember how I mentioned earlier that a random guy in the audience last night came up and complimented me on the Wurli sound? Well I ran into him again later, and his followup comment was, "But man, a good Leslie sound is just impossible to get, isn't it?"

 

So who knows, maybe one of these nights if I'm feeling ambitious, I'll bring along the Vent and extra stuff, and see how it goes.

[Dglavko]

4. This is one board that would actually about REQUIRE a Vent because it ain't even in the same league. That plus the drawbars would get you close to the SK2 range in price.

 

I would agree with this.. I think that the KB3 engine still needs a bit of work to compete with current clones.. Roland has stepped up their game with the VR-09 and the leslie sim seems much improved to me. I think Kurzweil needs to do the same with the KB3 engine.

Craig, I'm not sure if you've played a post-2012 OS version of KB3 but when Kurzweil released an OS upgrade for the PC3 series in or about January, 2012, it significantly improved the KB3. Properly tweaked (just like the VR09/Kronos) I think it can give the usual clones a run for the money. (I think few realize this, as Kurzweil did not publicize this much or update the organ sounds on their website so many still associate KB3 with the prior models).

 

In fact, I bought a vent in late 2011 intending to use it with the PC3 before the upgrade, but found little need for it once the new OS (and associated Leslie) was released.

 

If Kurzweil could only trim the PC3/PC-61 down by 10-15 pounds, and offer a waterfall keys version, I think it'd go back up to my number 1 gig/rehearsal board instead of the SK1/Nord Stage2-76 which I usually bring out these days.

[Ekewaka]

4. This is one board that would actually about REQUIRE a Vent because it ain't even in the same league. That plus the drawbars would get you close to the SK2 range in price.

 

I would agree with this.. I think that the KB3 engine still needs a bit of work to compete with current clones.. Roland has stepped up their game with the VR-09 and the leslie sim seems much improved to me. I think Kurzweil needs to do the same with the KB3 engine.

Craig, I'm not sure if you've played a post-2012 OS version of KB3 but when Kurzweil released an OS upgrade for the PC3 series in or about January, 2012, it significantly improved the KB3. Properly tweaked (just like the VR09/Kronos) I think it can give the usual clones a run for the money. (I think few realize this, as Kurzweil did not publicize this much or update the organ sounds on their website so many still associate KB3 with the prior models).

 

In fact, I bought a vent in late 2011 intending to use it with the PC3 before the upgrade, but found little need for it once the new OS (and associated Leslie) was released.

 

If Kurzweil could only trim the PC3/PC-61 down by 10-15 pounds, and offer a waterfall keys version, I think it'd go back up to my number 1 gig/rehearsal board instead of the SK1/Nord Stage2-76 which I usually bring out these days.

 

I would indeed think that if there was a company that could execute well on a light-weight combo unit competing with Nord, it would be Kurtzweil, They just need more R&D funding.

[brenner13]

Then again, remember how I mentioned earlier that a random guy in the audience last night came up and complimented me on the Wurli sound? Well I ran into him again later, and his followup comment was, "But man, a good Leslie sound is just impossible to get, isn't it?"

 

So who knows, maybe one of these nights if I'm feeling ambitious, I'll bring along the Vent and extra stuff, and see how it goes.

 

No doubt the Vent is a wonderful thing. However, I don't have one and am waiting for them to drop in value by about half ( like that'll ever happen) before seriously contemplating one. However, most of the VR's organ presets default to rotary type 2 which emphasizes the woofer. It may be too bright for some, but I prefer rotary type 1 to get more of the horn action. Messing with the tone, compression, and menu diving for the high and low gain under the organ option can bring in other frequencies one might be missing.

 

Love all the tweaking available.

[Craig MacDonald]

Craig, I'm not sure if you've played a post-2012 OS version of KB3 but when Kurzweil released an OS upgrade for the PC3 series in or about January, 2012, it significantly improved the KB3. Properly tweaked (just like the VR09/Kronos) I think it can give the usual clones a run for the money. (I think few realize this, as Kurzweil did not publicize this much or update the organ sounds on their website so many still associate KB3 with the prior models).

 

I did try the new OS.. I was working as keyboard consultant at a music store at the time when it was released and we installed it on a keyboard in the store. I thought it was an improvement and it was OK but by that I mean "useable". However, I still feel it's in that grey area where if I had a ventilator I would probably use it with KB3, but if I didn't, I'm not sure I would spend the cash for a ventilator. Different people hear different things though.. I really love the Vents animation, OD and the close mic setting. Very few sims come close to it. The VR-09 is in this same category, since I have a ventilator I might use it, but I think you'd have to be pretty fussy to go out and buy a ventilator to use with the VR-09 (or perhaps the KB3 engine) but some of us are fussier than others.

 

That said things have changed for me and in the past I spent a lot of time chasing the perfect Hammond/Leslie sound but these days I'm spending more time trying to downsize and streamline my rig by making choices that don't compromise my sound too much. I want less cables, less devices, quick setup and teardown... I'm a lot more likely to play with an internal sim these days and not have to worry about another device and more cables.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

No doubt the Vent is a wonderful thing. However, I don't have one and am waiting for them to drop in value by about half ( like that'll ever happen) before seriously contemplating one. However, most of the VR's organ presets default to rotary type 2 which emphasizes the woofer. It may be too bright for some, but I prefer rotary type 1 to get more of the horn action. Messing with the tone, compression, and menu diving for the high and low gain under the organ option can bring in other frequencies one might be missing.

 

Love all the tweaking available.

This is the point that is a bit hard to explain.. how you can do so much to alter the character of the organ sound with so few controls! While individual tonewheels are being tweaked on the $3000 clonewheels, we're accomplishing the same end result (or close to it) with the following simple tweaks:

 

Leslie type 1 or 2

Tone Control

Upper/Lower Gain

 

And let's not forget overdrive knob and compression! It's surprising to me how much increasing compression brings out some of tones that really make the organ sound full and rich and scream on the top end.

 

I would definately recommend Leslie type 2 for those who like the ventilator.. the emphasis on the woofer results in a much warmer sound. It's my favourite, but I could see Type 1 working well in certain situations too.

[Dglavko]

That said things have changed for me and in the past I spent a lot of time chasing the perfect Hammond/Leslie sound but these days I'm spending more time trying to downsize and streamline my rig by making choices that don't compromise my sound too much. I want less cables, less devices, quick setup and teardown... I'm a lot more likely to play with an internal sim these days and not have to worry about another device and more cables.

 

I hear you, and I must admit since purchasing the SK1 that it is indeed very liberating playing with a 15 lb keyboard, 8 lb stand, and 22 lb amp for a change, even though all that seems to have done is freed up room for a bari saxophone and accordion...

 

[Dglavko]

Craig, I'm not sure if you've played a post-2012 OS version of KB3 but when Kurzweil released an OS upgrade for the PC3 series in or about January, 2012, it significantly improved the KB3. Properly tweaked (just like the VR09/Kronos) I think it can give the usual clones a run for the money. (I think few realize this, as Kurzweil did not publicize this much or update the organ sounds on their website so many still associate KB3 with the prior models).

 

I did try the new OS.. I was working as keyboard consultant at a music store at the time when it was released and we installed it on a keyboard in the store. I thought it was an improvement and it was OK but by that I mean "useable". However, I still feel it's in that grey area where if I had a ventilator I would probably use it with KB3, but if I didn't, I'm not sure I would spend the cash for a ventilator. Different people hear different things though.. I really love the Vents animation, OD and the close mic setting. Very few sims come close to it... since I have a ventilator I might use it, but I think you'd have to be pretty fussy to go out and buy a ventilator to use with the VR-09 (or perhaps the KB3 engine) but some of us are fussier than others.

I don't disagree with that at all. I also keep forgetting to mention that I generally gravitate towards less OD on my Hammonds than many, so that affects my assessment I suppose.

 

Still the techie geek in me is tempted to bring the tweaked PC3 over and compare it firsthand with the VR09. Maybe when I retire too... In the meantime, I'm having too much fun playing these things. Happy cloner days indeed!

[Craig MacDonald]

Same here, the last gig I played was with my Kronos and an X stand and one QSC K10.. it was fantastic.. although I have to admit that I did bring the ventilator to use with the Kronos CX3 engine..

[DulceLabs.com]

I hear you, and I must admit since purchasing the SK1 that it is indeed very liberating playing with a 15 lb keyboard, 8 lb stand, and 22 lb amp for a change, even though all that seems to have done is freed up room for a bari saxophone and accordion...

 

So true - it's like joining AA and

then getting hooked on cigs and coffee..

Give up one vice, pick up two!

[Jazzmammal]

Gotta step in here Craig because I'm a big time Kurz fanboy. For some reason starting last year my jazz gigs have dried up and I'm back to doing classic rock. My PC3 76 organs are killer. It took me a while to figure out what each one was best suited for because all of them have certain specific things going for them, just like real B3 and leslie combos did. There's different tonewheel sets, different modeled amps for overdrive and distortion plus several different leslies with individual mic controls, ramp up/down speeds etc. The key to this for an organ fanatic is using the right one for specific songs. The new KB3 rocks is all I can say.

 

I have an XK1 and I've done several direct comparisons and they're very, very close and for some things I think the KB3 is better. Maybe I'll record some of that and post it.

 

Now, I'll admit I'm only talking about the sound, as for the look, layout and general feel, the XK1 wins hands down for organ.

 

To keep this on topic, I've played the VR-09 at a local Sam Ash and yes, the keys are not the best but they didn't bother me, I thought it sounded pretty decent and I think it's excellent value. To me it sounds like my Sonic Cell which is not bad at all.

 

I mentioned classic rock, I'm booked this weekend with a 5 piece band at a Woodstock style festival on Catalina Island and I'm taking my PC3. I've done this before, it's a pia getting it on the boat, stowing it in the baggage area then schlepping it down the dock in Avalon to get picked up. I would love to have the VR for this. 12 Pounds? That's a no brainer, I would gladly trade slightly inferior but still pretty good sound for this gig.

 

Bob

[willf]

I have to admit that I did bring the ventilator to use with the Kronos CX3 engine..

 

Very wise .

[Craig MacDonald]

Gotta step in here Craig because I'm a big time Kurz fanboy. For some reason starting last year my jazz gigs have dried up and I'm back to doing classic rock. My PC3 76 organs are killer. It took me a while to figure out what each one was best suited for because all of them have certain specific things going for them, just like real B3 and leslie combos did. There's different tonewheel sets, different modeled amps for overdrive and distortion plus several different leslies with individual mic controls, ramp up/down speeds etc. The new KB3 rocks is all I can say.

 

To keep this on topic, I've played the VR-09 at a local Sam Ash and yes, the keys are not the best but they didn't bother me, I thought it sounded pretty decent and I think it's excellent value. To me it sounds like my Sonic Cell which is not bad at all.

 

I mentioned classic rock, I'm booked this weekend with a 5 piece band at a Woodstock style festival on Catalina Island and I'm taking my PC3. I've done this before, it's a pia getting it on the boat, stowing it in the baggage area then schlepping it down the dock in Avalon to get picked up. I would love to have the VR for this. 12 Pounds? That's a no brainer, I would gladly trade slightly inferior but still pretty good sound for this gig.

 

Bob

 

I think that, by the sounds of it, I need to go spend some more time with a kurzweil with the new OS.. honestly I didn't spend much time with it, maybe 10-15 minutes, whereas I'm spending a lot of time with this VR-09.. and we all know that the more you get to know something the more you end up tweaking it to your liking.. SO that said I will defer to you guys who have spent more time with it!! BTW Kurzweil was my main board for years.. an original K2000 and then graduated to a K2661, which was part of my BX3, speakeasy 147 rig for a long time. Kurzweil has always been great for the classic rock stuff.

 

Anyway, doing the classic rock thing, this VR-09 at 12 pounds is a no brainer. Even it's flaws, these issues with effects and expression control on splits and layers, they won't matter to a lot of folks.. A lot of players don't do the split/layer thing, they just call up an EP/AP or hammond and they play it.

 

One last point, someo of the sounds in the VR-09 may be similar to the Sonic Cell. I had one as part of my gig rig that I just sold to my friend Dglavko (who is coincedentally contributing to this thread)! Some sounds may be the same but I think the VR-09 has a number of patches that are based on the internal VA synth rather than samples.. so I think most of the synth sounds are better in the VR-09, and don't forget that on the VR-09 it's really easy to shape the tone using the live tone controls and the ADSR/Cutoff/resonance controls on the control panel.

 

Have a great gig this weekend..!! I'm doing my classic rock thing on Saturday night as well.. I may try the VR-09.. I'm just a little short on time to put together all the registrations and setups that I'd need We'll see!!

[High Diving Act]

I've been asked by a couple folks to post the VR-09 through the Neo Instruments Ventilator. The VR-09 sounds really good through the Ventilator.. and for the record, I'm not suggesting that you NEED a Ventilator, because the VR-09 internal sim is very good.. the Ventilator has slightly better animation and significantly better overdrive.. So if you have a Ventilator you would probably use it with the VR-09 but I'm not sure that you'd need to go out and buy one. Here's the link:

 

 

Couple things.. once again, I'm just noodling around with different drawbar registrations and a lot of held chords (and some sloppy notes) just to hear the ventilator leslie effect.. at about the 1:50 mark I boost up the VR-09 internal overdrive and you can hear how grungy it sounds. Some might like this, and I don't particulary, however before I come to a final conclusion on the VR-09's overdrive I'll want to hear it in a band setting.. some OD's sound crappy when playing solo but they sit nicely in a band setting..

 

Someone asked to hear the vent at max slow speed, so at 2:20 you'll hear the vent at max slow, and at 3:02 you'll hear the Vent at max fast speed, then it's returned to normal.. At 3:30 I turn up the Ventilator overdrive and you can hear that really nice warm crunchy ventilator overdrive, in contrast with the VR-09's internal OD at 1:50.

 

Last but not least.. when I put the VR-09 through the ventilator and listened through my Yamaha studio monitors for the puroses of making this recording, I had to completely change the organ tone that I was using.. It's VERY fascinating how much the sound of the VR-09 organ changes from one listening environment to another.. what sounds great through my QSC K10's sounds like crap through my studio monitors, so I have to adjust the tone accordingly.. That said it's cool how easy it is to adjust the tone on the VR-09 and find a "sweet spot" for a particular amp/speakers etc.

Craig.. thanks for the vr-vent combo soundbite. I think it sounds fantastic. I actually might prefer some of tones you were getting more than the vb3... which is truly a testament to the qualities of the ventilator. Crap... now I'm gassing for a vent.

[brenner13]

No doubt the Vent is a wonderful thing. However, I don't have one and am waiting for them to drop in value by about half ( like that'll ever happen) before seriously contemplating one. However, most of the VR's organ presets default to rotary type 2 which emphasizes the woofer. It may be too bright for some, but I prefer rotary type 1 to get more of the horn action. Messing with the tone, compression, and menu diving for the high and low gain under the organ option can bring in other frequencies one might be missing.

 

Love all the tweaking available.

This is the point that is a bit hard to explain.. how you can do so much to alter the character of the organ sound with so few controls! While individual tonewheels are being tweaked on the $3000 clonewheels, we're accomplishing the same end result (or close to it) with the following simple tweaks:

 

Leslie type 1 or 2

Tone Control

Upper/Lower Gain

 

And let's not forget overdrive knob and compression! It's surprising to me how much increasing compression brings out some of tones that really make the organ sound full and rich and scream on the top end.

 

I would definately recommend Leslie type 2 for those who like the ventilator.. the emphasis on the woofer results in a much warmer sound. It's my favourite, but I could see Type 1 working well in certain situations too.

 

Just got back from another practice and go figure, for the hard rockin stuff, I DO have it set to rotary type 2 to get that deep growl. As Craig suggested, I did turn up the high gain a couple of spots and turned down the low gain a spot in the menu to get it hot in the top two octaves. Dang, that thang can scream.

 

Thinking about a tube pre-amp to warm it some more. Tight budget, though...has anybody had ears on the Alesis tube duo?

[Josh Paxton]

My gig earlier tonight was the happiest I've been yet to have the VR. Due to a confluence of annoying circumstances, I had to walk six blocks with my rig (except for the stand, which was already at the club). So I had the VR in the soft case, my cable bag, and a folding stool that I got when I realized it was as tall as my Ultimate Support bench, but weighed about a fourth as much. Everything combined was probably under 20 pounds.

 

I have to make this walk with my rig periodically, because that's just gigging life in the French Quarter. With the old rig (Stage 2 + bench) it was a significant pain in the ass -- or more accurately, in the back and/or a shoulder, depending on how I carried what. I would show up at the club sweaty, achey and surly. With the new rig, it was an absolute breeze; a pleasant evening's stroll. If I had any lingering doubts that this was the right board for this gig, they were gone by the time I walked in the door tonight.

[Adan]

Only 82 degrees and 64 % humidity in NoLa today, not bad at all. You'll appreciate your rig even more in July.

[HammondDave]

 

Thinking about a tube pre-amp to warm it some more. Tight budget, though...has anybody had ears on the Alesis tube duo?

 

 

Here we go again... Cue: "Speakeasy Music"

 

What's that old saying? "Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it."? How many times have we heard the OP's comment about warming up the tone after a new clone has come out?...

[To B3]

One question from WOK that interests me too got lost on the other posts:

 

"- none of the demo vids are showing, wether the overdrive is reacting correctly to the expression pedal (clean when playing quieter, more overdrive on pressing the pedal)?"

 

 

[brenner13]

One question from WOK that interests me too got lost on the other posts:

 

"- none of the demo vids are showing, wether the overdrive is reacting correctly to the expression pedal (clean when playing quieter, more overdrive on pressing the pedal)?"

 

 

Yep, expression works like it should...backing off the pedal not only reduces the volume, but also calms the overdrive.

[NeedMoreBass]

I have to make this walk with my rig periodically, because that's just gigging life in the French Quarter.

 

I know that walk. Played the Quarter for a few years including 2 at the Cajun Cabin. The worst part was making that walk carrying gear at 3 am. I was lucky I was never robbed, but my car was broken into a few times. Had to leave that life behind me as I knew my days were numbered.

[Ekewaka]

 

Thinking about a tube pre-amp to warm it some more. Tight budget, though...has anybody had ears on the Alesis tube duo?

 

 

Here we go again... Cue: "Speakeasy Music"

 

What's that old saying? "Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it."? How many times have we heard the OP's comment about warming up the tone after a new clone has come out?...

 

Well, the effect box people have a nice business concerning 'warming up' the sound.... I agree, if it does not sound good from the start, most of voodoo won't work.